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Message no. 1
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:05:44 -0500
In regards to riggers and vehicles:

This has probably been asked before, but please forgive me since I have
been away for quite a while.

Dealing with lifting and pulling objects, as well as drone weights, what
are the weights of the specific vehicles. I understand the Load rating is
"what a vehicle can lift, pull, or carry". The problem becomes what does a
vehicle/drone weigh?

Another question that comes to mind, speaking of drones, is what is the
storage CFs required to store a drone in a vehicle. RBB (Rigger Black
Book) had that information in it.

If this is in Rigger 2, please flame me and I will gladly bow down to the
gods.

Thanks

Ron
Message no. 2
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:41:43 -0500
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:05:44 -0500 Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET> writes:
>In regards to riggers and vehicles:
>
>This has probably been asked before, but please forgive me since I have
>been away for quite a while.
>
>Dealing with lifting and pulling objects, as well as drone weights, what
>are the weights of the specific vehicles. I understand the Load rating
is
>"what a vehicle can lift, pull, or carry". The problem becomes what
does a
>vehicle/drone weigh?

Take a look at the body chart for the ranges and guess. Yup that's it.
Try to make it a good guess though. What I use as a general rule of
thumb though is minimum weight for the body plus all load reductions.
From their I fudge because sometimes a vehicle can sometimes use it's own
weight (or more!) in load. (look at T-bird. Max out the Load add smart
materials and max out engine customization and it can carry over 40 tons!
That's two body 6 vehicles [ie, a thunderbird] ... scarry.)

>Another question that comes to mind, speaking of drones, is what is the
>storage CFs required to store a drone in a vehicle. RBB (Rigger Black
>Book) had that information in it.

Mike Bobroff has a good system for this but I don't have it readyly
available at the moment so I'll let him or K answer this one.

>If this is in Rigger 2, please flame me and I will gladly bow down to
the
>gods.
>
>Thanks
>
>Ron

Nope. Not in there. (Well, it might say to make somethiing up.) The
weight thing not being in there is understandable but, In My Opinion the
CF should have been in there. Oh well.

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 3
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:46:37 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/98 12:46:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >Another question that comes to mind, speaking of drones, is what is the
> >storage CFs required to store a drone in a vehicle. RBB (Rigger Black
> >Book) had that information in it.
>
> Mike Bobroff has a good system for this but I don't have it readyly
> available at the moment so I'll let him or K answer this one.

The system I use for determining the space necessary for a drone is as follows
...

Storage CF = (Body)^2 + (CF requirements for all options and customizations,
not including seating) + ( 2 x Seating CF)

The reason you need twice the seating CF is because a person does take up room
also, though maybe not entirely realisitc, on the average it will work.

Note, when dealing with Body 0 drones (with no CF modifications), have your gm
tell you how many of them you can stick into a CF. I personally go with no
more than 2.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 4
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:08:00 -0400
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Ron Clark wrote:

->In regards to riggers and vehicles:
->
->This has probably been asked before, but please forgive me since I have
->been away for quite a while.
->
->Dealing with lifting and pulling objects, as well as drone weights, what
->are the weights of the specific vehicles. I understand the Load rating is
->"what a vehicle can lift, pull, or carry". The problem becomes what does a
->vehicle/drone weigh?

Rigger 2 book, first or second chapter there is a table for Body
ratings and their corresponding ratings. I don't have the book handy (I'm
at work) but it's something like 0-5kg (Body 0), 6-75kg (Body 1), 75-250kg
(Body 2) or something similar. It also gives general sizes (Body one
drones being about the size of a toaster, for instance).

->Another question that comes to mind, speaking of drones, is what is the
->storage CFs required to store a drone in a vehicle. RBB (Rigger Black
->Book) had that information in it.

Wish I knew. I had difficulty finding references too. I figured
it was the CF the drone could carry plus a formula (which I'm still trying
to find out).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 5
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:34:42 -0400
Dave Foster didst sayeth:

>On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Ron Clark wrote:
>
>->In regards to riggers and vehicles:
>->
>->This has probably been asked before, but please forgive me since I have
>->been away for quite a while.
>->
>->Dealing with lifting and pulling objects, as well as drone weights, what
>->are the weights of the specific vehicles. I understand the Load rating
is
>->"what a vehicle can lift, pull, or carry". The problem becomes what
does
a
>->vehicle/drone weigh?
>
> Rigger 2 book, first or second chapter there is a table for Body
>ratings and their corresponding ratings. I don't have the book handy (I'm
>at work) but it's something like 0-5kg (Body 0), 6-75kg (Body 1), 75-250kg
>(Body 2) or something similar. It also gives general sizes (Body one
>drones being about the size of a toaster, for instance).


The chart you're referring to is probably the second most worthlessly vague
table in all of SR2. The ranges are absolutely huge for most stuff past
Body 1. It would have been far more useful to simply assign real sizes to
the examples, then let us compare from there for new stuff.

When push comes to shove, I've been reduced to guessing at size then finding
something of similar size and reducing mass to account for design
innovations and new materials.

No, wait...the table in Cybertech relating Body to mass is worse...

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 6
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:46:16 -0300
Mike Bobroff wrote:
> Storage CF = (Body)^2 + (CF requirements for all options and customizations,
> not including seating) + ( 2 x Seating CF)
>
> The reason you need twice the seating CF is because a person does take up room
> also, though maybe not entirely realisitc, on the average it will work.

I think the seating CF requirements are already incliding the
passengers...
A seat

> Note, when dealing with Body 0 drones (with no CF modifications), have your gm
> tell you how many of them you can stick into a CF. I personally go with no
> more than 2.


Going for the sizes of the body 0 drones, I'd say a crate full of
them :) .
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:22:12 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/98 5:58:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:

> > Storage CF = (Body)^2 + (CF requirements for all options and
customizations,
>
> > not including seating) + ( 2 x Seating CF)
> >
> > The reason you need twice the seating CF is because a person does take up
> room
> > also, though maybe not entirely realisitc, on the average it will work.
>
> I think the seating CF requirements are already incliding the
> passengers...
> A seat

Yes, but the additional CF-age represents other things also ... the space in
between seats, moving room, things of that nature. Consider it comparable to
sitting in a car nowadays ... are you as cramped as a pilot in a jet fighter,
or do you have to move around a little bit more than that ?

> > Note, when dealing with Body 0 drones (with no CF modifications), have
> your gm
> > tell you how many of them you can stick into a CF. I personally go with
> no
> > more than 2.
>
>
> Going for the sizes of the body 0 drones, I'd say a crate full of
> them :) .
>

True, you could put a butt-load of Body 0 drones into the space, but the space
is only a half meter on all sides.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 8
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:11:48 -0400
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:

->Mike Bobroff wrote:
->> Note, when dealing with Body 0 drones (with no CF modifications), have your gm
->> tell you how many of them you can stick into a CF. I personally go with no
->> more than 2.
-> Going for the sizes of the body 0 drones, I'd say a crate full of
->them :) .

a CF is supposed to be (IIRC) a cubic half-meter or .125 m^3. If
a Body 0 drone is about 15cm long we can assume it's maybe 1/5th that high
and about 1/3rd that wide. That gives it a rough volume of about
2.25x10^-3 m^3. Stacked three drones long, ten drones wide and fifteen
drones high (450 drones so far) you still have 5cm at the top and front of
the container. You can pack ten drones thick and three drones long in
each of those sections for another 60 drones (510 drones so far) still
leaving you with a small section of 5cmx5cmx50cm that you can shove
another three drones in (513 drones).
I did that in my head and there is probably a more efficient way
of packing them in there to get all the unused space out (I don't think a
5cmx5cmx5cm space and 2cmx5cmx50cm space left was too much) but over 500
body 0 drones could (theoretically) fit in one CF of space. Since I doubt
any runner is going to have the money to purchase 500 of any useful drone,
it's a matter of how many the GM wants in there... just use storage CFx400
as a general rule (to represent odd body shapes and such).
I remember I had a point to this but I have forgotten it now. ]:-)

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 9
From: Ron Clark <rclark@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:49:10 -0500
At 09:46 AM 8/24/98 EDT, you wrote:
>The system I use for determining the space necessary for a drone is as
follows
>...
>
>Storage CF = (Body)^2 + (CF requirements for all options and customizations,
>not including seating) + ( 2 x Seating CF)
>
Thanks for the input.

Ron
Message no. 10
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Question about Rigger 2
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:52:48 -0300
Mike Bobroff wrote:
> >
>
> True, you could put a butt-load of Body 0 drones into the space, but the space
> is only a half meter on all sides.
>

Get them in to an actual crate. The "bettle" drones are pretty small,
you could
get a crate load of them (15-20) in one CF... The crate would be around
1 CF in
size too. I'm not talkink naval containers here :) .

Bira

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