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Message no. 1
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@*******.tamu.edu>
Subject: Question on Loa possession
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:35:59 -0500 (CDT)
Greeting All;
In Awakenings it says that a non-serviteur can be forcibly
possesed using the standard rules for possession (sp?) in the Grimmy.
Awakenings also says that MUNDANES can be forcibly possessed in this way
also. Now here's the problem. The Grimmy says to be possessed you must
be defeated in astral combat. I think that we have a conflict here. Can
a mundane non-serviteur be forcibly possessed by a Loa? If so how? Does
the Loa have to use the power of "Astral Gateway" and then kick the
mundane's non corporeal ass? or does he just jump on and possess.
My freind and I have been debating this one. I think that Awak.
wanted mundanes to be able to be possessed easily. He disagrees.
I'm designing a New Orleans run and although I worked around the
problem it would be nice to know.

regards
Bill
Message no. 2
From: Hairy Smurf <ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
At 16:35 5/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>possesed using the standard rules for possession (sp?) in the Grimmy.
>Awakenings also says that MUNDANES can be forcibly possessed in this way
>also. Now here's the problem. The Grimmy says to be possessed you must
>be defeated in astral combat. I think that we have a conflict here. Can
>a mundane non-serviteur be forcibly possessed by a Loa? If so how? Does
>the Loa have to use the power of "Astral Gateway" and then kick the
>mundane's non corporeal ass? or does he just jump on and possess.
> My freind and I have been debating this one. I think that Awak.
>wanted mundanes to be able to be possessed easily. He disagrees.
> I'm designing a New Orleans run and although I worked around the
>problem it would be nice to know.
>
>regards
>Bill

Both the Hougan and the serviteur have already agreed to becoming mounts.
That is why the can be possessed. Normal non-serviteur mundades should have
no reason to worry about loa possesion. They would have to believe in loas
and be willing to act as a mount to be possessed. IMHO.

Sasquatch

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Message no. 3
From: Faux Pas <fauxpas@******.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 01:28:09 -0500
Two things. First, don't send a message to the mailing list with a tab at
the beginning of your message. The first line dissapears. (It's happened
to me as well)

At 04:35 PM 5/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>possesed using the standard rules for possession (sp?) in the Grimmy.
>Awakenings also says that MUNDANES can be forcibly possessed in this way
>also. Now here's the problem. The Grimmy says to be possessed you must
>be defeated in astral combat. I think that we have a conflict here. Can
>a mundane non-serviteur be forcibly possessed by a Loa? If so how? Does
>the Loa have to use the power of "Astral Gateway" and then kick the
>mundane's non corporeal ass? or does he just jump on and possess.
> My freind and I have been debating this one. I think that Awak.
>wanted mundanes to be able to be possessed easily. He disagrees.

Secondly, I'm the friend he's talking about. I thought I cleared it up last
week: Loa cannot possess a mundane.

The Grimmything doesn't say anything about possession. That's in
Awakenings, and (I don't have the book with me and I know you don't have it
with you) I don't think it says anything about possessing mundanes. It just
talks about possession in general, and says for it to work, the spirit must
use astral combat. Mundanes cannot use astral combat.

Here's why. Page 147, SRII, "Any magical thing or being with a presence in
astral space can engage in astral combat. Things that do not have an active
astral presence cannot fight or be hurt in any way in astral space. That
means mundane characters (those with no Magic Rating) are immune to direct
effects from astral space." Right there, in black and white. Seeing as how
mundanes have no Magic Rating, they cannot engage in astral combat, thus
they cannot be possessed.

The use of Astral Gateway is on page 79 of the Grimmything. To quote: "The
spirit can use its astral gateway power to bring the planes into closer
contact. The power can permit anyone, magician to non-magician, to project
into astral space."

My read of this is that the spirit in astral can allow a non-mundane to
cross into astral space if he or she wishes. It permits [which Webster's II
defines as consenting to, affords opportunity to, or allows] the mundane to
step into astral. It doesn't let the Loa or spirit kidnap the character.

There is no conflict. The rules are quite clear.

-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist At Large

"Bob Guccioni's vision of Casablanca starring Pamela Anderson Lee's breasts
as Bogart."
-My one line review of _Barb Wire_
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 06:50:52 -0600 (MDT)
Faux Pas wrote:
|
|The use of Astral Gateway is on page 79 of the Grimmything. To quote: "The
|spirit can use its astral gateway power to bring the planes into closer
|contact. The power can permit anyone, magician to non-magician, to project
|into astral space."
|
|My read of this is that the spirit in astral can allow a non-mundane to
|cross into astral space if he or she wishes. It permits [which Webster's II
|defines as consenting to, affords opportunity to, or allows] the mundane to
|step into astral. It doesn't let the Loa or spirit kidnap the character.

I'm not current on Loa, but from what you wrote would it be possible for a
Loa to open an Astral Gateway, invite a mundane through it, and then possess
the mundane?

|"Bob Guccioni's vision of Casablanca starring Pamela Anderson Lee's breasts
|as Bogart."
| -My one line review of _Barb Wire_

That is an interesting picture. Would it make a good ShadowRun movie? :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 5
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:18:09 GMT
David Buehrer writes
>
> I'm not current on Loa, but from what you wrote would it be possible for a
> Loa to open an Astral Gateway, invite a mundane through it, and then possess
> the mundane?
>
Assuming the Loa was a free spirit with the noted power this might be
possible assuming possesion can be achieved of unwilling targets. I
have read the Loa rules about once, far too long ago.

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Hairy Smurf <ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
At 16:18 5/7/96 GMT, you wrote:
>David Buehrer writes
>>
>> I'm not current on Loa, but from what you wrote would it be possible for a
>> Loa to open an Astral Gateway, invite a mundane through it, and then possess
>> the mundane?
>>
>Assuming the Loa was a free spirit with the noted power this might be
>possible assuming possesion can be achieved of unwilling targets. I
>have read the Loa rules about once, far too long ago.
>
>Mark

Awakenings p.126 Serviteurs "To be eligable for such a possesion, a
character must udergo a ritual performed by a hougan to initiate him or her
into the society of voudon, not unlike the rituals magicians undergo to
become initiates."

also see The Grimoire p.80 (SRII) or p.96-97 (SRI)

The only way a mundane can unwillingly be possesed is if they are in a free
spirit's personal domain. Or if they are a host for an insect spirit. Those
are the only two ways I know of.

Sasquatch

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| Support Bacteria! |
| It's the only culture some people have. |
| |
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| No Website (yet) |
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Message no. 7
From: Faux Pas <fauxpas@******.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Loa possession
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:24:32 -0500
>I'm not current on Loa, but from what you wrote would it be possible for a
>Loa to open an Astral Gateway, invite a mundane through it, and then possess
>the mundane?

Why would the mundane trip through the astral? It would allow a mundane to
access the astral, but the mundane would want to go into astral space and
know that he can journey in astral space. What Bill is talking about is a
non-willing possession by a Loa. I'm saying it can't happen. I'll check
Awakenings when I get it back from my friend, but when Bill and I went over
this a while back, I thought it was clear that a Loa cannot possess a mundane.

_Barb Wire_
>
>That is an interesting picture. Would it make a good ShadowRun movie? :)

Not really. The original film BW ripped off, Casablanca, makes a better
Shadowrun movie. Set it in Denver or Austin, someone's got to get across
the border and needs these transit papers/retinal lenses, the runners are
hired to find said special item. Track down last known people who had the
items while having the national/corporate goons chasing after the same item.
Tie a romantic link to one of the runners, have the local police chief
divided between his duty to the state/corp and his loyalty to his freinds,
then "round up the usual suspects". Walk across a foggy runway into the
night. The end.

Barb Wire would make good MST3K fodder.

Crow: "Oh, it's her breasts again. Yawn."
Tom Servo: "Who is this woman trying to be? Madonna?"
Mike: "Guys, I am so homesick right now."

-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist At Large

"Bob Guccioni's vision of Casablanca starring Pamela Anderson Lee's breasts
as Bogart."
-My one line review of _Barb Wire_

Further Reading

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