Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Rick J. Irvine" <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:00:04 -0500
Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop themselves
into full mage status?

If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or anything, I'm
not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would be
interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical talent,
and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
build themselves back up magically during the game.

- Cheetah
Message no. 2
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:57:40 -0500
At 11:00 AM 9/26/97 -0500, Rick J. Irvine wrote:
# Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
# a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
themselves
# into full mage status?
#
# If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or
anything, I'm
# not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would be
# interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical
talent,
# and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
# build themselves back up magically during the game.

well, you could play a full mage that doesn't know it and thinks they are
an adept or something.

--
/- justin@****.mcp.com -------------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:46:47 -0600
Rick J. Irvine wrote:
|
| Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
| a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop themselves
| into full mage status?

One hell of a ritual. If performed by the person I'd require a lot
of unique items (good sources for adventures leading up to the
ritual). If performed by an NPC (a Dragon sounds like a good
candidate) the PC would owe them one hell of a favor. Or maybe
services would have to be performed before the ritual (again,
adventures).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:28:08 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-26 11:55:12 EDT, you write:

> Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
> a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
> themselves
> into full mage status?
>
> If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or anything,
I'
> m
> not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would
be
> interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical
talent,
>
> and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
> build themselves back up magically during the game.
>
> - Cheetah

Cheetah, you would be looking at one of those adventures that take on mythic
proportions. Atoning for the loss of the magic, loss of precious essence.
Perhaps a direction one could go in regards the short story about the one
burned-out thaumaturgical doctor that was given a tarot deck by good ol'St
Dunkie. If I remember correctly the story is available for player knowledge
and for character knowledge as well. It is all a matter of how much hell
your gm wants to put you through before you can regain the magic.

AirWisp
<<<[There is no try, do or do not, there is no try.]>>> (paraphrased
from
Yoda)
Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:05:22 EST
> Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical
> talent or a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could
> develop themselves into full mage status?

I had one character (I was GM) who decided he wanted to become
magical (He was a slightly ctybered mundane, who had also been
vamp-sucked for a point of essence). He ended up spending about two
years (rreal time) searching for it along with normal runs, payed
about 50 Karma towards it (never knowing when he'd get it). The
player showed the needed determiniation, so I let him have it. He
discovered a ritual (Ritual of Rebirth [written by me YEARS before
M:tg came out). THen he had to find a group to do it. THen he had
to find a spirit willing to let him use AStral Gateway. Then he had
to do an astral quest to "find" the needed connection (Coyote adopted
him)...and he had to learn the basic Sorcery skill (at 1) WITHOUT
being magical to be able to succeed at this.

AFter the ritual (which involved about 500,000 worth of materials,
not to mention hiding it's existence from the megacorps) he
discovered he was magical, but had lost all his cyberware (indeed,
his body had been recreated. Hope for Bull??:) ) This was a minor
pain, as all of his vehicles were rigger-only. :)

THis has been really neat though, as this is the longest running
character in play with me....he was about to retire, but has suddenly
found himself as almost a new character. Sorcery at skill 1, no
Conjuring and Magical Theory at 3, no enchanting.
Message no. 6
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:20:35 -0400
> From: Rick J. Irvine <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
> Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 12:00 PM

> Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent
or
> a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
themselves
> into full mage status?

<Snip>

My take is that if the points aren't paid at character creation, it just
doesn't happen. Otherwise, you get your sammies who, after spending a
couple hundred karma on themselves, decide they can't improve as a sammie
any further and then start spreading out into other areas of expertise.
I'm okay with this, but I don't want to start seeing sammies become magical
just because there's nothing else for them to spend the karma on, etc.

However, if it fit the character concept, and the player wasn't just trying
to round out his sammie, etc., I might consider it on a case by case basis,
requiring lots of uniqe things and political interaction with *gasp*
Immortal Elves or a Dragon or something. The same would be required for
any nice magically ambitious task (like magical immortality, etc.) But,
again, this would have to be considered heavily and guarded, because it's a
shame to see PCs become all-around butt kickers with no weaknesses because
they have earned a ton of karma. At the point when a sammie doesn't feel
he can grow, it's time for a new PC and for the PC he's playing to get out
of the shadows, IMO.

> - Cheetah

Justin :)
Message no. 7
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:55:33 -0400
At 11:00 AM 9/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
>a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop themselves
>into full mage status?
>
>If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or anything,
I'm
>not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would be
>interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical talent,
>and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
>build themselves back up magically during the game.
>

Well, I just wrote up a character who was a phys mage who could astrally
project (HOUSE RULE, NO FLAMING, HOUSE RULE). The catch was, I gave him
serious amnesia (worked into his background story, obviously), so he
doesn't remember any of his magical abilities (no sorcery, conjuring,
enchanting, perceiving, projecting). All he has are his innate physad
powers, but I'm going to play him (if I ever get the chance) as not even
realizing they are magically-based. He'll just think he knows how to kick
ass. I figure during the game at some point, he'll run into a spirit
(probably a fellow PC's) and think, I wish that annoying thing would go
away -- banishing test. Or, perhaps, some astral projecting while he
sleeps (I liked that way of first discovering powers that someone
mentioned). Game mechanics wise, I didn't end up spending too many points
for the potential for more magical powers because the flaws offset the
difference from physad to phys mage + projection (HOUSE RULE!). I also
bought more physad powers with force points (HOUSE RULE), so he has a full
6 pts worth of abilities, so, is basically a full physad with the potential
for more. That development will be a karma sink -- imagine working up to a
decent sorcery or conjuring from scratch, yikes!

--DT
Message no. 8
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:33:21 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-26 11:54:57 EDT, irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU writes:

> Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
> a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
> themselves
> into full mage status?

Not to sound too much like Fro in reverse (smile there big guy!), but "Yes".

> If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or anything,
I'
> m
> not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would
be
> interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical
talent,
>
> and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
> build themselves back up magically during the game.

Rick, we have rules for it here and I'm sure it wouldn't take much to come up
with them using the given rules in the Grimoire II for Geasa and Initiation.
-K
Message no. 9
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:09:49 EDT
On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:28:08 -0400 Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM> writes:

>Cheetah, you would be looking at one of those adventures that take on
mythic
>proportions. Atoning for the loss of the magic, loss of precious
essence.
> Perhaps a direction one could go in regards the short story about the
one
>burned-out thaumaturgical doctor that was given a tarot deck by good
ol'St
>Dunkie. If I remember correctly the story is available for player
knowledge
>and for character knowledge as well. It is all a matter of how much
hell
>your gm wants to put you through before you can regain the magic.

There is a SR novel, the title escapes me - as does much of the plot (had
Serrin in it IIRC), that had a character who was a relatively newly
discovered bear shaman, but had a great deal of cyberware from his
previous work and during the climax, a spirit effectively 'heals' the
'ware out of him and restores his essence.

~Tim (hey, what do you expect, I read it almost 4 or 5 years ago..)
Message no. 10
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:09:48 EDT
On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:00:04 -0500 "Rick J. Irvine"
<irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU> writes:
>Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent
or
>a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
themselves
>into full mage status?
>
>If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or
anything, I'm
>not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would
be
>interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical
talent,
>and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*)
could
>build themselves back up magically during the game.

Well, for simplicity's sake you could just make a standard full magician,
but then not give them any of the skills... and just role-play from
there.

~Tim
Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:30:37 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-27 16:14:49 EDT, z-i-m@****.COM writes:

>
> There is a SR novel, the title escapes me - as does much of the plot (had
> Serrin in it IIRC), that had a character who was a relatively newly
> discovered bear shaman, but had a great deal of cyberware from his
> previous work and during the climax, a spirit effectively 'heals' the
> 'ware out of him and restores his essence.
>
The novel is "Nosferatu" by Carl S. and Marc G. Serrin is cool, but the
intention I think was to implicate at exactly what level of power the "Elven
Paranoia" can truly function at. Niall (or is it Liam?) is a Path of Righ
magician, and one of the few that don't really follow all of the precepts of
the stuffy, snotty, types in Tir Nan nOg.
-K
Message no. 12
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 03:45:13 -0500
On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Tim Cooper wrote:


> >Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent
> or
> >a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
> themselves
> >into full mage status?
> >
> >If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or
> anything, I'm
> >not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would
> be
> >interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical
> talent,
> >and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*)
> could
> >build themselves back up magically during the game.
>
> Well, for simplicity's sake you could just make a standard full magician,
> but then not give them any of the skills... and just role-play from
> there.
>
> ~Tim
>
Or you could have them start out as a full mage but give them a Flaw
where they can only cast spelles from one "Relm" Macking them Kinda like
the Elemental Adepts. They take a flaw for each relm and have to roleplay
losing the flaw and learning how to cast spells. Also you only allow them
the have a specialization in sorcery(type of spell) and not a usable
general skill.

---=>Czar

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:54:44 GMT
Rick J. Irvine writes

> Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent or
> a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop themselves
> into full mage status?
>
Yes, but the 'rules' basically are a karnic cost, adept being 23,
mage 43 and upgrade 20. (based on dismantling the priority system and
cutting out all the effects on rippling down other priorities, loss
of force points for spell casters etc etc.)

However i require that this be considered as, 'the character always
had the potantial, its just being realised', i also require a
suitable excuse such as 'visiting the site of the great ghost dance',
a rather dangerous escapade involving daring the dohnah Drail
(magical storms in the Tir Na nOg, which i mispelled terribly), or
major magical rituals etc

> If this sounds like I'm trying to find loopholes in the rules or anything, I'm
> not. I'm just curious. :) (Cats are that way, y'know.) I think it would be
> interesting to play out the process of starting with a single magical talent,
> and going from there, much like a burned out mage (or physad *grin*) could
> build themselves back up magically during the game.
>

As long as it's handled sensibly this can be done ok, remember you
then have to buy all the skills up! getting from zero to starting
mage, with skills and spells plus the 43 karma 'charge' runs about
150 karma! also don't let them do this sort of thing just because
they are 300 karma characters with a harlequins back award lying
about looking like helping nothing as a mundane.

Mark
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:41:31 GMT
J. Keith Henry writes

> >
> The novel is "Nosferatu" by Carl S. and Marc G. Serrin is cool, but the
Yes, i really like Serrin, he and one or two of the others are very
nice characters, the plot lines get a bit well, at times, though the
various books are a good read.

> intention I think was to implicate at exactly what level of power the "Elven
> Paranoia" can truly function at. Niall (or is it Liam?) is a Path of Righ
> magician,
Naill O'Connor of Meath, the guy that wrote the 'Tir Na nOg' file on
Shadowland (ie sourcebook). I had him show up in an adventure so
created some stats for him which took about 500 karma despite the
path advantages to make him look reasonable, mostly because the list
of path of the Righ skills is so long! the stats wern't all that
impressive, moderate grade, capable guy but can that skill list eat
karma! [ i have seen 100-200 karma characters that would be quite a
bit nastieter in combat]

> and one of the few that don't really follow all of the precepts of
> the stuffy, snotty, types in Tir Nan nOg.

Given the problems of being a rouge path magician and the very small
size of that path <30, i would presume he is the only rouge follower
of that path. Most folks that went ruge would easily be found,
remember the immortal elves set things up and even without them their
fellow group memebers are well capable of catching rouges. Yes an
adventure to get this guy out of the Tir just for effectively a
holiday required quite a few double blinds.


Mark
Message no. 15
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:05:53 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-29 10:34:20 EDT, you write:

> > Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent
or
> > a magical adept (ie, sorcery, enchanting, summoning) could develop
> themselves
> > into full mage status?
> >
> Yes, but the 'rules' basically are a karnic cost, adept being 23,
> mage 43 and upgrade 20. (based on dismantling the priority system and
> cutting out all the effects on rippling down other priorities, loss
> of force points for spell casters etc etc.)

I could see more from the game balance pov, the karmic cost you are referring
to being replaced by edge points. This would equate to all sorts of roleplay
in the game, developing enemies, gaining allergies and the like. It has
never been said that becoming magically active at all was easy and without
tests of any sort.
Message no. 16
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:03:25 GMT
Mike Bobroff writes
>
> > > Has anyone come up with any rules on how a person with a magical talent
> > > could develop
> > > into full mage status?
> > >
> > Yes, but the 'rules' basically are a karnic cost, adept being 23,
> > mage 43 and upgrade 20. (based on dismantling the priority system and
> > cutting out all the effects on rippling down other priorities, loss
> > of force points for spell casters etc etc.)
>
> I could see more from the game balance pov, the karmic cost you are referring
> to being replaced by edge points. This would equate to all sorts of roleplay
> in the game, developing enemies, gaining allergies and the like.
Oh replace with anything reasonable, this was simply a 'game balance'
mechanic, you also needed a suitable excuse, gm's permission etc etc.
As roleplaying 'flaws' etc are worth/equivalent to karma go for it.

> It has
> never been said that becoming magically active at all was easy and without
> tests of any sort.
>
I consider it developing a character, you cannot 'become' a magician
unless you already had the talent, however in game mechanics that is
how it may appear as you are paying karma plus roleplaying insted of
priorities at character creation to say 'my character has the
potential to do .....'

Mark
Message no. 17
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Question on Magical Talents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:25:00 GMT
on 30.09.97 M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK wrote:

MJS> > It has
MJS> > never been said that becoming magically active at all was easy and
MJS> > without tests of any sort.
MJS> >
MJS> I consider it developing a character, you cannot 'become' a magician
MJS> unless you already had the talent, however in game mechanics that is
MJS> how it may appear as you are paying karma plus roleplaying insted of
MJS> priorities at character creation to say 'my character has the
MJS> potential to do .....'

I know, i repeat myself, but if you'd roleplay a char the way that some
totem might 'call' him, well....(I have that right now. My old char was
actually a 0.6 essence ex-SEAL. But during playing he developed to someone
following the wolf-totem (Actually he never thought about it, neither did
I). He defended his friends, tried real hard to fight for a good cause and
never backed off, nomatter what he had to do. So we figured, we could rip
his chrome out and make him a wolf-adept. Sure, he'll lose a lot of his
power and won't be a good mage for quite a long time (All he knows of
magic is what he learned when fighting with and against it, which is
mainly 'Air Elementals don't care about API-ammo. Mages do.')
I guess that giving a PC that really doesn't know about magic a talent
during the game, is really fun. You don't have to make it cost karma, as
that char will have to acquire all the magical skills and spells from
nothing. That's quite a challange. OTOH, if the heartless killer wants to
become a snake-shaman, well I don't think so (BTW, I wouldn't allow
hermetics. You can always say that the totem 'called' the PC, but that
doesn't work with hermetics...)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Question on Magical Talents, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!