Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Questions about stuff
Date:	Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:33:12 -0500

Message no. 1 Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...

1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
the list.

2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Good Lord! I've heard of this - Cat juggling!"
-Steve Martin, "The Jerk"

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:47:04 +0000

Message no. 2 |2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
|Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
|
|Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya

Eh????

Earthworm Jim to Velma from Scooby-doo?
In six steps???? How?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:52:53 -0700

Message no. 3 > 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone
seems
> to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was
on
> the list.

Well I have to say that I enjoy the Ruger Superwarhawk when i'm playing a
shaman because it's perfect for intimidation and I never shoot it anyway.

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:55:38 -0500

Message no. 4 At 04:47 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>|Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>|
>|Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya
>
>Eh????
>
>Earthworm Jim to Velma from Scooby-doo?
>In six steps???? How?
>
Ouch, Andy... That's a tough one, mostly because I'm not familiar with the
Earthworm jim cartoon... Only caught about half an episode once about four
years ago...

Let me talk it over tonight and I'll get back to you...

Tinner! You reading this?? A little help here!

Bull

P.S. Just so you realize how the connections go:

Take Brainy Smurf (from the Smurfs).

He's chased by Azrael the Cat, who is litterbox pals with Sebastion (from
Josie and the pussycats). Josie's band is managed by Alan, who shares
wardrobe styles with Fred (from Scooby Doo), who solves mysteries with:

Velma!

<that's froma cartoon network commercial...:)>

See ya!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:55:01 -0500

Message no. 5 Bull put forth,
>Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
I try to use a different gun for each character. There is a lot of
personality that shows up in their choice of firearms. Personal choice -
Happiness is a Warm Gun. Yeah, yeah,yeah.
>
>2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
Fnord, I never noticed it until now. <grin>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:32:35 +0000

Message no. 6 In message <1.5.4.16.19970106181338.1ea79e80@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> writes
>Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

An antique Colt Python .357 Magnum :)

Favourite official handgun, Ares Predator. Why? I don't know, maybe I
see it being to SR what the Beretta 92 is to John Woo movies :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	"Falin \"Dark-Claw\"" <jhyatt@****.WINCOM.NET>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:38:15 -0500

Message no. 7 >Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma

1) I myself like using almost any gun the greater the diversity the
greater the suprise but do prefer machine pistols.
But when using them I like to use gel rounds, live people still talk
better then the dead.

>>>>>[ The only thing that all fear is Knowledge ]<<<<<
-Falin "Dark-Claw" <00:00:00/01-21-57>

jhyatt@********.com
jhyatt@******.net

From:	Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:05:33 -0700

Message no. 8 > 1) I myself like using almost any gun the greater the diversity the
> greater the suprise but do prefer machine pistols.
> But when using them I like to use gel rounds, live people still talk
> better then the dead.
>
Don't you find that it takes alot of gel rounds from a machine pistol to
knock someone down?

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

From:	"Falin \"Dark-Claw\"" <jhyatt@****.WINCOM.NET>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:39:26 -0500

Message no. 9 > > 1) I myself like using almost any gun the greater the diversity the
> > greater the suprise but do prefer machine pistols.
> > But when using them I like to use gel rounds, live people still
talk
> > better then the dead.
> >
> Don't you find that it takes alot of gel rounds from a machine pistol to
> knock someone down?

Yes but I guess that depends on how good you are.

plus: they reduce power by 2 but then use Impact armor to resist, Net
effect:

1) against armor jacket same power but does stun damage and has better
chance to knockdown
2) against armor clothing power increased by 3 but does stun damage and
has better chance to knockdown

Instead of using half power to determine knockdown use the full power.

From:	Hannes Lundholm <mt28185@******.SWIPNET.SE>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:35:07 +0100

Message no. 10 Bah! .357???
You obvioulsy never has shot with a real .45
I did it once...
Out moose-hunting...
Gee, that feeling...

(And therefore I like the warhawk most, as an official gun)

----------
> Från: Paul J. Adam <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
> Till: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Ämne: Re: Questions about stuff
> Datum: den 7 januari 1997 19.32
>
> In message <1.5.4.16.19970106181338.1ea79e80@*****.com>, Bull
> <chaos@*****.COM> writes
> >Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
> >
> >1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> An antique Colt Python .357 Magnum :)
>
> Favourite official handgun, Ares Predator. Why? I don't know, maybe I
> see it being to SR what the Beretta 92 is to John Woo movies :)
>
> --
> There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
> praiseworthy...
>
> Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:43:51 -0800

Message no. 11 On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

# Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
Hey
# 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
#
The Savalette seems to be my players' gun o' choice. I must admit
it's quite efficient.

# 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
# Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

Bad Bull!No biscuit or cable tv for you! ;P

The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr

From:	John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:55:09 EST

Message no. 12 On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:39:26 -0500 "Falin \"Dark-Claw\""
<jhyatt@****.WINCOM.NET> writes:
>> > 1) I myself like using almost any gun the greater the diversity the
>> > greater the suprise but do prefer machine pistols.
>> > But when using them I like to use gel rounds, live people still
talk
>> > better then the dead.
>> >
>> Don't you find that it takes alot of gel rounds from a machine pistol
to
>> knock someone down?
>
> Yes but I guess that depends on how good you are.
>
>plus: they reduce power by 2 but then use Impact armor to resist, Net
effect:
>
>1) against armor jacket same power but does stun damage and has better
>chance to knockdown
>2) against armor clothing power increased by 3 but does stun damage and
>has better chance to knockdown
>
>Instead of using half power to determine knockdown use the full power.
>
Close, but no cigar. Gell rounds use ballistic armor. _Stun_ rounds
(usable only in large bore weapons, ie shotguns) use impact.

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage

From:	Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:05:20 -0800

Message no. 13 On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

> Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
> to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
> the list.
>

I don't know about myself, but 4 out of 5 members of our group choose the
Guardian over anything else.

> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>

uh...sorry..no I haven't..

> Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya

Is that for OUR protection?

>
> Bull
>

~Tim

From:	Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:07:52 +1100

Message no. 14 On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

> Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...

Shoot!

>
> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

Hmm... My guns usually reflect the type of person my character is. Some
people express themselves with a paintbrush and canvas, I do so with my
choice of guns.

At the moment, my character is carrying a Walther Palm Pistol (Hold-out),
a Walter PB-120 (Light), and a Savalette Guardian (Heavy). I only changed
to the Savalette recently, I used to be a plain old boring Ares Predator
person.

> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

Even cavemen cartoons?

Shaman

From:	Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:42:01 -0500

Message no. 15 Bull[SMTP:chaos@*****.COM] wrote:
>Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
>We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
>to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was
on
>the list.

It depends on the purpose. Both of my (N)PCs carry revolvers. My gillette
carries a Ruger Super Warhawk loaded with EX explosive as a sidearm, on the
grounds that if he actually has to draw the damn thing, he'd better take
down whatever he hits with it. (You can't argue with 12M damage, especially
if the user has a decent (5) firearms, a tac-comp, and enhanced
articulation. (He doesn't have a smartgun link, though. Not enough essence.
{Under my firearms damage system, that's 6D damage, BTW. Ruger does 6S
base, +1 damage level with no loss of power for EX explosive.) My sorcery
adept carries a wheelgun as well, but his is a Combat spell focus as well,
and he carries it for style.

For the average 'runner, under base SRII rules, there is very little reason
to carry anything but a heavy pistol, and strictly from a numbers
standpoint, the Predator and Predator II guns are best. (Ummm, excepting
such oddities as the savalalette and the thunderbolt.) (One of the reasons
I diddled pistol damage codes in my system was to make a choice between
light and heavy pistols a matter of preference rather than numbers. (Yes,
heavy pistols still have a slight edge.))

But I prefer SMGs for most ops. Flexibility, ammo cap, AND concealability.
Cool

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@******.stevens-tech.edu

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:22:23 +0100

Message no. 16 Bull said on 19:33/ 6 Jan 97...

> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

With hand gun from SR you mean pistol from any official supplement,
right? In that case I'd have to say Browning Ultrapower, with the laser
sight removed (hacksaw time!) and an internal smartlink II and rangefinder
installed. It's got great concealability and the clip size is okay too.

> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

No, I haven't. Maybe I should watch more cartoons :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:17:18 -0700

Message no. 17 >Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

The large net gun. My players hate that thing :)

-David

From:	Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:19:32 -0800

Message no. 18 Bull wrote:
>
> Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
> to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
> the list.

I'm guessing I'm wierd, cause my answer isn't predator or guardian,
Official- Morrisey Alta (light, good ammo + conceal, and the picture
looks really cool), unofficial- SW 79, I always liked to think of it
(inaccurately I would presume) as a .41 magnum, which is the coolest
impracticle handgun I know of.

>
> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>
No I hadn't.

From:	Holger Lohmann <stu33671@****.UNI-KIEL.D400.DE>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:50:35 +0100

Message no. 19 hoi chummers

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

> Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
> to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
> the list

my favorit handgun is the urban combat because of its secret factor (it is
made of plastic and ceramic so it cannot be detected by metaldetectors
you can fire it at all modi and it has a g=reat power niveu for such an
small weapon so check it out you can find it in the source books
<deutschland in den schatten> or <schlagschatten> last is an book with
three germany adventures but a big stuff list when you donnot have these
books and donnot find the urban combat (which has also an included smart
gun and gas compansator class2 or 3 i can mail you all facts about this
weapon see ya

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:14:17 +0000

Message no. 20 In message <199701072308.AAA25001@****.swip.net>, Hannes Lundholm
<mt28185@******.SWIPNET.SE> writes
>Bah! .357???
>You obvioulsy never has shot with a real .45
>I did it once...
>Out moose-hunting...
>Gee, that feeling...
>
>(And therefore I like the warhawk most, as an official gun)

I _own_ a .45 (a Glock 21). 9mm is just .45 set for stun. .357 Magnum is
a different matter entirely, _lots_ of velocity compared to a .45 round:
with a bullet able to take advantage of that it's one of the most
effective handgun rounds going (even more so than .45, from collected
evidence).

Having shot a Python, it's such a beautiful piece of machinery, I love
the damn thing. If (1) it wasn't so expensive, (2) my Firearm
Certificate allowed me to own a .357 [British firearm licensing limits
you by calibre], (3) all pistols weren't about to be confiscated; I'd
seriously, seriously want one.

A .357 Magnum is enough for anything a sane man should shoot at with a
pistol, and from a Python is controllable enough to rapid-fire while
still accurate enough to drive tacks. And I like revolvers, it's just
that shooting Practical and only owning one pistol means it's an
automatic or nowt :) And short of the Desert Eagle and one or two (rare,
expensive) American exotics, there aren't any automatics chambered for
the .357.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:35:22 +0000

Message no. 21 |> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
|> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
|
|Even cavemen cartoons?

Errr. would that be "Valley of the dinosaurs" (Which I haven't seen for
YEARS... Used to be on Multi-Coloured-Swap-Shop...

or

CAPTAIN CAVEMAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!

?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Faux Pas <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:36:33 -0600

Message no. 22 At 07:33 PM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

Depends on what character I'm playing... The fire elementalist prefers the
Ares Super Squirt, all the better to spread accelerants around. The other
character I have (a bodyguard type), likes loud guns - she wants to know
that someone's firing back. It's an intimidation thing.

>2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

I think I was on rec.arts.comics back when the six degrees of Kevin Bacon
started (or when it was first tied to Kevin Bacon). How could Velma meet
Kevin Bacon? Well...

Kevin Bacon was in Footloose with Sarah Jessica Parker
Sarah Jessica Partner was in Extreme Measures with Gene Hackman
Gene Hackman was in the movie Superman
Superman is a member of the Justice League along with Batman
Batman and Robin met Velma and Scooby Doo

-Thomas Deeny
the Cartoonist at Large's web site is telltale.hart.org

"Ho."
-Multiple Santa, "Tick vs. Santa"

From:	"Falin \"Dark-Claw\"" <jhyatt@****.WINCOM.NET>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:17:14 -0500

Message no. 23 >>>> 1) I myself like using almost any gun the greater the diversity
the
>>>> greater the suprise but do prefer machine pistols.
>>>> But when using them I like to use gel rounds, live people
still talk
>>>> better then the dead.
>>>>

>>> Don't you find that it takes alot of gel rounds from a machine
pistol
>>> to knock someone down?

>> Yes but I guess that depends on how good you are.
>>
>>plus: they reduce power by 2 but then use Impact armor to resist, Net
effect:
>>
>>1) against armor jacket same power but does stun damage and has
better
>> chance to knockdown
>>2) against armor clothing power increased by 3 but does stun damage
and
>> has better chance to knockdown
>>
>>Instead of using half power to determine knockdown use the full
power.

> Close, but no cigar. Gell rounds use ballistic armor. _Stun_ rounds
> (usable only in large bore weapons, ie shotguns) use impact.

Actually SR2 page 95 classifies them as the same and states the
information as above.

From:	IEngelmann@***.COM
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:21:05 -0500

Message no. 24 << 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
the list. >>

Our preferred hand gun in our campaign is the Guardian, 'cause it's not too
expensive and it has a BF-mode, which makes it real powerful and you can it
conceal quite easily.

Ilja

From:	Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:36:09 -0600

Message no. 25 >A .357 Magnum is enough for anything a sane man should shoot at with a
>pistol, and from a Python is controllable enough to rapid-fire while
>still accurate enough to drive tacks. And I like revolvers, it's just
>that shooting Practical and only owning one pistol means it's an
>automatic or nowt :) And short of the Desert Eagle and one or two (rare,
>expensive) American exotics, there aren't any automatics chambered for
>the .357.

Well, you could solve most of your (gun) problems by moving to the USA,
Paul. We don't confiscate weapons, don't limit you by caliber, and (oddly
enough) aren't populated by a lot of sane men :)

Mike Broadwater

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:35:11 -0700

Message no. 26 Michael Broadwater wrote:
|
| Well, you could solve most of your (gun) problems by moving to the USA,
| Paul. We don't confiscate weapons, don't limit you by caliber, and (oddly
| enough) aren't populated by a lot of sane men :)
|
| Mike Broadwater

Mike! You're back! <prepares for lively discussions> ;)

Welcome.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

From:	ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:50:44 -0600

Message no. 27 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> wrote:
*
*>Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
*>
*>1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
*
*
*The large net gun. My players hate that thing :)
*
*-David

I always kinda liked the >>>>>Monofilament Net Gun<<<<<.
(House
weapon. Don't ask.) Sure it's almost completely useless (no range,
limited ammo, *very* expensive), but just imagine the intimidation
factor you'd get just by carrying the damn thing!

\__________/
/\________/\ ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
/ /\______/\ \ It is said that money cannot buy one happiness.
/ / /\____/\ \ \ This is true.
/ / / /\ /\ \ \ \ However, it is also said that money is power,
__/_/_/_/__\/__\_\_\_\____ and power is the ability to make the lives of
\ \ \ \ /\ / / / / | others as miserable as your own.
\ \ \ \/__\/ / / / | -=Have a nice day!=-
\ \ \/____\/ / / | ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
\ \/______\/ / |
\/________\/ | ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
/ \ * whew !!!

From:	Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:06:37 -0700

Message no. 28 > Having shot a Python, it's such a beautiful piece of machinery, I love
> the damn thing. If (1) it wasn't so expensive, (2) my Firearm
> Certificate allowed me to own a .357 [British firearm licensing limits
> you by calibre], (3) all pistols weren't about to be confiscated; I'd
> seriously, seriously want one.
>
They are going to confiscate all your guns? How lame!
You should move to Arizona.

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

From:	Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:47:47 +1100

Message no. 29 On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, David Buehrer wrote:

> >Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
> >
> >1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>
> The large net gun. My players hate that thing :)

Yeah, players are really annoyed when you throw in net guns, narcoject
pistols - ahh, bliss.

Here's a question I just thought of: How easy should it be for a
character to identify a weapon (not concealed), and then, how much should
they know about it? There's no skill called weapon ID and even if there
was, I don't think anyone would take it.

I find it troublesome when the PCs ID a gun and whip out extra copies of
Street Sam or some other text to check the gun out (as far as accessories
and damage) to gauge the "threat" of the weapon.

Shaman

From:	Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:51:26 +1100

Message no. 30 On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Charles Baker wrote:

> Bull wrote:
> >
> > Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
> >
> > 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
> >
> > We were talking about this in our group the other night,and everyone seems
> > to have differing opinions, and I was jsut curious what the consebsus was on
> > the list.
>
> I'm guessing I'm wierd, cause my answer isn't predator or guardian,
> Official- Morrisey Alta (light, good ammo + conceal, and the picture
> looks really cool), unofficial- SW 79, I always liked to think of it
> (inaccurately I would presume) as a .41 magnum, which is the coolest
> impracticle handgun I know of.
>

Maybe it's because of the large number of guns avail, but I don't recall
seeing the Morrisey. Which book was it in?

Shaman

From:	Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:00:54 +1100

Message no. 31 On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

> |> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> |> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
> |
> |Even cavemen cartoons?
>
> Errr. would that be "Valley of the dinosaurs" (Which I haven't seen for
> YEARS... Used to be on Multi-Coloured-Swap-Shop...
>
> or
>
> CAPTAIN CAVEMAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!
>
> ?????

Uhh. Actually, I was thinking about cavemen cartoons as in those sketches
you see on cave walls and stuff. But Cap. Cavemen rules.

Shaman

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:51:20 -0500

Message no. 32 At 03:55 PM 1/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 04:47 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>|2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>>|Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>>|
>>|Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya
>>
>>Eh????
>>
>>Earthworm Jim to Velma from Scooby-doo?
>>In six steps???? How?
>>
Ok, a friend of mine was able to make the connection, but if he missed
something, don't blame me...

Ok, apparently there is a character on the show named Jabberjaw.

This Jabberjaw was named after the talking, Walking, singing Shark that had
his own show, also called (of course) Jabberjaw. Now, jabberjaw worked
with a guy who looked EXACTLY like Shaggy, who of course solves crime with:
VELMA!!!!

(How's that?)

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:52:33 -0500

Message no. 33 At 03:43 PM 1/7/97 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

># 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
># Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>
> Bad Bull!No biscuit or cable tv for you! ;P
>
But... but... but...

What about Scooby-Snax??

Bull

(and if anyone out there calls Valium Scooby Snacks, they're asking to be
hurt...:))

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:54:02 -0500

Message no. 34 At 04:05 PM 1/7/97 -0800, you wrote:

>> Anyways, it's back in the box for me... Seeya
>
>Is that for OUR protection?
>
Yes...:):) If I didn't have to go away occasionally, I'd crash your
mailboxes...:):):)

Bull-the-Back-in-the-Box-Ork

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:55:16 -0500

Message no. 35 At 11:07 AM 1/8/97 +1100, Calvin Hsieh wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:
>
>> Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>
>Shoot!
>
BANG!!!:)

>> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>
>Even cavemen cartoons?
>
Please specify specifics, and I may be able to comply...:)

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:59:45 -0500

Message no. 36 At 12:35 AM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma
from
>|> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>|
>|Even cavemen cartoons?
>
>Errr. would that be "Valley of the dinosaurs" (Which I haven't seen for
>YEARS... Used to be on Multi-Coloured-Swap-Shop...
>
Not sure I remember Valley of teh Dinosaurs... Was that the live-action
show? Or am I thinking Land of the Lost?

>or
>
>CAPTAIN CAVEMAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!
>
I can do captain Caveman... Cap goes along with one of Cartoon Networks
commercials...

Captain Caveman lives in Bedrock with Betty Rubble. Betty has met Judy
Jetson during a time travel episode (this is actually not Cartoon Networks
explanation, but it works better). Judy Jetson lives with Astro. Astro
has teh same speech Impediment as Scooby. Scooby solves mysteries with:
VELMA!!!

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:39:53 +0000

Message no. 37 |Ok, a friend of mine was able to make the connection, but if he missed
|something, don't blame me...
|
|Ok, apparently there is a character on the show named Jabberjaw.

Never heard of him....
The regular villains are Dr Moneyforahead,
Evil Queen Slimeyfesteringbloatedpussfilledslugforabutt
Psycrow
Bob the goldfish and
Evil the cat...

Never heard of a Jabberjaw in Earthworm Jim though....

I suppose it could be an episode I've not seen yet though.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:02:21 -0500

Message no. 38 At 07:36 PM 1/7/97 -0600, you wrote:

>>2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
>>Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?
>
>I think I was on rec.arts.comics back when the six degrees of Kevin Bacon
>started (or when it was first tied to Kevin Bacon). How could Velma meet
>Kevin Bacon? Well...
>
>Kevin Bacon was in Footloose with Sarah Jessica Parker
>Sarah Jessica Partner was in Extreme Measures with Gene Hackman
>Gene Hackman was in the movie Superman
>Superman is a member of the Justice League along with Batman
>Batman and Robin met Velma and Scooby Doo
>
ROTFLOL!!!

I hadn't heard this... I LOVE it!

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:44:10 +0000

Message no. 39 |Please specify specifics, and I may be able to comply...:)

I probably stumped you on Valley of the Dinosaurs....
I'd be suprised if anyone remembers that one....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:48:02 +1100

Message no. 40 On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

> |Please specify specifics, and I may be able to comply...:)
>
> I probably stumped you on Valley of the Dinosaurs....
> I'd be suprised if anyone remembers that one....

Or try Eek the cat, or the animaniacs, or even buster bunny.

Shaman

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:48:01 +0000

Message no. 41 |I can do captain Caveman... Cap goes along with one of Cartoon Networks
|commercials...

Nope.... it would appear that you can't....

|Captain Caveman lives in Bedrock with Betty Rubble.

Nope. Captain Caveman was frozen in Ice until the present day, and is now
the worlds only stone-age superhero.....

Barny Rubble lives with Betty....

Betty has met Judy
|Jetson during a time travel episode (this is actually not Cartoon Networks
|explanation, but it works better). Judy Jetson lives with Astro. Astro
|has teh same speech Impediment as Scooby. Scooby solves mysteries with:
|VELMA!!!

I'm afraid the first link was broken.... Try again....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:13:57 -0500

Message no. 42 At 12:39 AM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Never heard of him....
>The regular villains are Dr Moneyforahead,
>Evil Queen Slimeyfesteringbloatedpussfilledslugforabutt
>Psycrow
>Bob the goldfish and
>Evil the cat...
>
>Never heard of a Jabberjaw in Earthworm Jim though....
>
>I suppose it could be an episode I've not seen yet though.
>
Don't ask me... Apparently there's a talking fish named Jabberjaw... At
least according to my friend...

Since you've seen the show, maybe you can make the connection, Andrew...:)

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:17:10 -0500

Message no. 43 At 12:48 AM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|I can do captain Caveman... Cap goes along with one of Cartoon Networks
>|commercials...
>
>Nope.... it would appear that you can't....
>
>|Captain Caveman lives in Bedrock with Betty Rubble.
>
>Nope. Captain Caveman was frozen in Ice until the present day, and is now
>the worlds only stone-age superhero.....
>
Actually, it depends on the version of the show you watch... There was a
bad version of the show done in the late 80's/early 90's called Flintstone
Kids. Every eisode Fred, Barney, and the gang would sit down and watch a
short Captain Caveman and Son episode. The cartoon is terrible, but my
little cousin loves it, so on occasion I get to watch it with her...

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:52:37 -0700

Message no. 44 > Nope.... it would appear that you can't....
>
> |Captain Caveman lives in Bedrock with Betty Rubble.
>
> Nope. Captain Caveman was frozen in Ice until the present day, and is now
> the worlds only stone-age superhero.....
>
Nope I must agree with Bull on this one because if you watch the New
cartoon series with the bedrock gang as children (not sure the title of the
show) they rush home everyday to watch captain caveman and son. They have
met the two on numerous occasions in fact.

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:09:04 +0000

Message no. 45 |>Never heard of a Jabberjaw in Earthworm Jim though....
|>
|>I suppose it could be an episode I've not seen yet though.
|>
|Don't ask me... Apparently there's a talking fish named Jabberjaw... At
|least according to my friend...

Bob the Goldfish... The fur-bearin' trout and the anti-fish are the only
talking fish I can think of.....

|Since you've seen the show, maybe you can make the connection, Andrew...:)

I don't think I'd even want to try.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:27:38 +0000

Message no. 46 In message <199701082114.OAA26253@***.netzone.com>, Caric
<caric@*******.COM> writes
>They are going to confiscate all your guns? How lame!
>You should move to Arizona.

Sure. Got a Green Card and a job handy? :)

I suffer from the problem that I do design work on a product
considerably superior to anything similar built in the US (the Sting Ray
lightweight ASW torpedo, in the unlikely event anyone's interested).

This handicaps me enormously, because US defence companies do not like
to be told that Nasty Foreigners do anything better than they do.

For proof and for instance, while the Royal Navy and RAF have had Sting
Ray in service since 1985 and are currently updating it, the US is
producing an "advanced hybrid torpedo" which is a thirty-year-old back
end (propulsion and control) mated to a ten-year-old front end (homing
and guidance) from a previously failed project, the whole armed with a
warhead that was provably inadequate in 1944 let alone today. This is
being bought as "the finest weapon available": even Italy build better
weapons (mind you, since they have Whitehead, they should).

And no, I do not exaggerate at all, and will stand by the truth of the
preceding paragraph in a court of law if the GAO call me as a witness :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	Faux Pas <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:18:38 -0600

Message no. 47 At 12:48 AM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|I can do captain Caveman... Cap goes along with one of Cartoon Networks
>|commercials...
>
>I'm afraid the first link was broken.... Try again....

Captain Caveman hangs out with the Teen Angels...
The Teen Angels got their van from the same dealer that sold Freddy the
Mystery Machine...
Freddy solves mysteries with Velma!

-Thomas Deeny
the Cartoonist at Large's web site is telltale.hart.org

"Ninjas aren't dangerous. They're more afraid of you than you are of them."
-the Tick, "Night of a Million Zillion Ninja"

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:17:57 +0000

Message no. 48 |Actually, it depends on the version of the show you watch... There was a
|bad version of the show done in the late 80's/early 90's called Flintstone
|Kids. Every eisode Fred, Barney, and the gang would sit down and watch a
|short Captain Caveman and Son episode. The cartoon is terrible, but my
|little cousin loves it, so on occasion I get to watch it with her...

I'll thank the TV Execs that rubbish like that hasn't made it over here
yet.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:41:06 -0500

Message no. 49 At 07:18 PM 1/8/97 -0600, you wrote:
>At 12:48 AM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>|I can do captain Caveman... Cap goes along with one of Cartoon Networks
>>|commercials...
>>
>>I'm afraid the first link was broken.... Try again....
>
>Captain Caveman hangs out with the Teen Angels...
>The Teen Angels got their van from the same dealer that sold Freddy the
>Mystery Machine...
>Freddy solves mysteries with Velma!
>
Cool...:)

Good Job, Thomas...:)

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Questions about stuff
Date:	Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:24:48 +0000

Message no. 50 |Captain Caveman hangs out with the Teen Angels...
|The Teen Angels got their van from the same dealer that sold Freddy the
|Mystery Machine...
|Freddy solves mysteries with Velma!

ROTFL....
That brings back memories.... It must be 10 years (at least) since I saw
that....

Then again, BBC2 just started reshowing "Help! It's the Hair Bear Bunch!".
It's probably 20 years since I saw that one....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 51 |Sure. Got a Green Card and a job handy? :)
|
|I suffer from the problem that I do design work on a product
|considerably superior to anything similar built in the US (the Sting Ray
|lightweight ASW torpedo, in the unlikely event anyone's interested).
|
|This handicaps me enormously, because US defence companies do not like
|to be told that Nasty Foreigners do anything better than they do.

Don't you have an official secrets act type thing to keep you quiet???

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 52 In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.970109105040.24594E-100000@*******>, Calvin
Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU> writes
>Maybe it's because of the large number of guns avail, but I don't recall
>seeing the Morrisey. Which book was it in?

Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 53 In message <29539.199701090126@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> writes

<I said:>
>|This handicaps me enormously, because US defence companies do not like
>|to be told that Nasty Foreigners do anything better than they do.
>
>Don't you have an official secrets act type thing to keep you quiet???

Shhh! Don't tell the colonials that or they'll all want one too! :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 54 > From: Holger Lohmann <stu33671@****.UNI-KIEL.D400.DE>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> my favorit handgun is the urban combat because of its secret factor (it is
> made of plastic and ceramic so it cannot be detected by metaldetectors

Still wouldn't make it past the chem sniffers. Someone with a really
good nose could pick it up as well. Used guns have a distictive
smell.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 55 > From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> > |Captain Caveman lives in Bedrock with Betty Rubble.
> Nope I must agree with Bull on this one because if you watch the New
> cartoon series with the bedrock gang as children (not sure the title of the
> show) they rush home everyday to watch captain caveman and son. They have
> met the two on numerous occasions in fact.

None of which means anything either way since captain caveman
appeared on Scooby Doo.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 56 > From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
> Subject: Questions about stuff

> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

Roomsweeper, by far. It's easy to hide, takes several different
loads, and just has plain attitude.

> 2) Have you ever noticed that you can trace any Cartoon back to Velma from
> Scooby Doo, withing six cartoon?

I try not to notice these things, thanks a lot. <G>

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 57 > From: ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> I always kinda liked the >>>>>Monofilament Net
Gun<<<<<. (House
> weapon. Don't ask.) Sure it's almost completely useless (no range,
> limited ammo, *very* expensive), but just imagine the intimidation
> factor you'd get just by carrying the damn thing!

Yeah, "Shoot that guy first!" Real intimidating. <G>

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 58 Bull wrote,
>Yes...:):) If I didn't have to go away occasionally, I'd crash your
>mailboxes...:):):)
>
>Bull-the-Back-in-the-Box-Ork
>
"Where's Bull?"
"Bull's sleeping."
"Well, you better go and wake him up then."

Message no. 59 Spike,
>I probably stumped you on Valley of the Dinosaurs....
>I'd be suprised if anyone remembers that one....
>
I DO, I DO!
There were two families in it one from our world and the caveman one
from the Valley of the Dinosaurs.

- MC23, the older Gen Xer with a serious love of pop culture -
B8>]# (lifting my mirrorshade in astonished rememberence)
Q__

Message no. 60 Spike wrote,
>Then again, BBC2 just started reshowing "Help! It's the Hair Bear Bunch!".
>It's probably 20 years since I saw that one....
Damn you guys, Now I have to pull out my copy of Saturday Morning.
It's put out by MCA and features alot of alternative bands covering old
saturday morning cartoon show themes.
It's great!

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23

Message no. 61 I wrote:
* > I always kinda liked the >>>>>Monofilament Net
Gun<<<<<. (House
* > weapon. Don't ask.) Sure it's almost completely useless (no range,
* > limited ammo, *very* expensive), but just imagine the intimidation
* > factor you'd get just by carrying the damn thing!
*
Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET> wrote:
*
* Yeah, "Shoot that guy first!" Real intimidating. <G>
*
*
* --Droopy
* droopy@**.net

It only works in small encounters. Like yer going down an alley when
two thugs try to jump ya. First ya snag one thug with yer handy
>>>>>Monofilament Net Gun<<<<<. Then ya point it at the
other guy while
his pal is screaming in pain on the ground, slowly getting cut into about
a hundred pieces. What do you think he's gonna do? If you were just
holding a simple firearm (Heavy Pistol, Shotgun, whatever), he might
decide to take his chances.... The power of this weapon is psychological.
It doesn't really work against trained military-(shadow-)personell or in
large groups. However single encounters in darkened alleys are prime
grounds for this type of weapon. Like I said originally, it *is* pretty
worthless in actual combat.

\__________/
/\________/\ ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
/ /\______/\ \ It is said that money cannot buy one happiness.
/ / /\____/\ \ \ This is true.
/ / / /\ /\ \ \ \ However, it is also said that money is power,
__/_/_/_/__\/__\_\_\_\____ and power is the ability to make the lives of
\ \ \ \ /\ / / / / | others as miserable as your own.
\ \ \ \/__\/ / / / | -=Have a nice day!=-
\ \ \/____\/ / / | ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
\ \/______\/ / |
\/________\/ | ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
/ \ * whew !!!

Message no. 62 > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:33:12 -0500
> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
> Subject: Questions about stuff

> 1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?

A radicly cut down Springfield M279 grenade launcher (a break action,
double barreled mini-grenade launcher, stock cut down to a pistol grip and the
barrel cut to six inches) with one barrel loaded with a rubber bullet
and the other with a flechettte round.

The reason is primarly the weapons versatility (15 different types of
ammuntion) and intimination quotent (there is something about looking
down the wrong end of a weapon with a double 30mm bore). Why the
choice of ammuntion, the rubber bullet gives the option of a either a
non-fatal take down against a single target or a a non-lethal method
of supressing a room of people (shoot at a wall, at an acute angle,
the bullet will bounce all over the room causing people to duck. Oh
yes some of these people will think it it is a HE grenade and rush to
leave) The fechette provides for a more lethal response and is good
for dealing with on-coming vehicles (it is hard to run over what you
can't see, and it is hard to see through the windshield after a
flechette round hits it [it is not quite as good as a paint round,
but it is good]). One last thing grenade launchers don't sound like a
gun when fired.

As to "book" guns it is the Predator II.

The others in the team use an Ares Viper Slivergun, several more
Predator IIs and one Mars Super Bison (a Super-Heavy Pistol).

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
******************************************************
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve niether liberty or
safety.
Ben Franklin

Message no. 63 > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:50:35 +0100
> From: Holger Lohmann <stu33671@****.UNI-KIEL.D400.DE>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

[SNIP]
> check it out you can find it in the source books
> <deutschland in den schatten> or <schlagschatten> last is an book with
> three germany adventures but a big stuff list when you donnot have these
> books and donnot find the urban combat (which has also an included smart
> gun and gas compansator class2 or 3 i can mail you all facts about this
> weapon see ya

As these sourcebooks (in their original German form) are not easily
available in the United States. The description and data of any
weapon not listed elsewhere would be of great interest to me. For that
matter it is likely that other Shadowrun Gamers would also be
interested [FASAMike you are correct this is a completely unsubtle
hint :-) ] enough to purchase a sourcebook containing this
information.

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
******************************************************
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve niether liberty or
safety.
Ben Franklin

Message no. 64 > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:27:38 +0000
> From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

[SNIP]

> For proof and for instance, while the Royal Navy and RAF have had Sting
> Ray in service since 1985 and are currently updating it, the US is
> producing an "advanced hybrid torpedo" which is a thirty-year-old back
> end (propulsion and control) mated to a ten-year-old front end (homing
> and guidance) from a previously failed project, the whole armed with a
> warhead that was provably inadequate in 1944 let alone today. This is
> being bought as "the finest weapon available": even Italy build better
> weapons (mind you, since they have Whitehead, they should).

Well said, As I am putting a NERPS article together that includes a
"product improved" Mark 46 torpedo. With your permission I would like
to use this last comment, slightly adapted as a "Shadowland Comment".
Got a runners handle you would like used?

Semi-Unrelated....... You reside in the vicenity of Portsmouth
England? I am always intrested in where the other people on the list
are generally from. This is an "educated guess" my copy of "Jane's"
puts the builder of the Stingray in that area.

As to moving to the USA, Arizona is not nearly a nice a place to
reside as Oregon.

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
******************************************************
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve niether liberty or
safety.
Ben Franklin

Message no. 65 Droopy wrote:
>
> > From: Holger Lohmann <stu33671@****.UNI-KIEL.D400.DE>
> > Subject: Re: Questions about stuff
>
> > my favorit handgun is the urban combat because of its secret factor (it is
> > made of plastic and ceramic so it cannot be detected by metaldetectors
>
> Still wouldn't make it past the chem sniffers. Someone with a really
> good nose could pick it up as well. Used guns have a distictive
> smell.
>

In general I assume that security devivces like metal detectors and chem
sniffers are going to succeed (cyber scanners are less relaible because
the tech involved is newer, and the body provides good shielding), that
theirs no way to sneak a gun into an airport without a plan, an inside
man, having it slip around the metal detector etc. just figuring that
the machinery wont work is doomed to failure.

Message no. 66 Calvin Hsieh said on 10:47/ 9 Jan 97...

> Here's a question I just thought of: How easy should it be for a
> character to identify a weapon (not concealed), and then, how much should
> they know about it? There's no skill called weapon ID and even if there
> was, I don't think anyone would take it.
>
> I find it troublesome when the PCs ID a gun and whip out extra copies of
> Street Sam or some other text to check the gun out (as far as accessories
> and damage) to gauge the "threat" of the weapon.

You could either make players a roll for this (Intelligence, Firearms,
Firearms B/R, or the special skill of Firearms Trivia come to mind), or
base it on the character's background. For example, a character who's been
in the army should be able to indentify most weapons used by that army,
but not the stuff that an army hardly ever encounters; while someone who's
grown up in a gang knows the common guns that circulate on the street, but
would have trouble spotting which missile launcher the bad guys are using.
And don't forget you can throw the players off the right track -- maybe
Ares has brought out a heavy pistol that looks a lot like the Light Fire
70 (from the SSC), so the PCs identify it as a LF70 when in fact it does
9M, so they underestimate the threat by a serious margin...

At any rate I wouldn't allow them to grab a book and look up the gun's
stats unless they've positively ID'd the weapon (or think they have).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 67 Calvin Hsieh wrote:
|
| I find it troublesome when the PCs ID a gun and whip out extra copies of
| Street Sam or some other text to check the gun out (as far as accessories
| and damage) to gauge the "threat" of the weapon.

Here's a good GM maxim. "If the players know what type of guns the bad
guys have, then they're already being shot at."

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

Message no. 68 Heavy pistols are wimpy. Real men use SMGs. :)
Dust

Message no. 69 While we're on the subject of SMGs. I love the Heckler and Koch HK227.
It's a wonderful weapon. Get a improved gas vent 4 and gyro stabilization
unit on it and you won't be able to walk down the street but it'd be
pretty damn cool. What's your favorite SMG?
Oh, and are all you shapeshifters sure you're playing your
characters right? I mean a shapeshifter is an animal first and then a
person so they "have" to act bestial in some sort of manner. I saw the
rules in the Shadowrun Companion for making shapeshifters, too and I'd
have to say that it offers a variety of options but shapeshifters should
not be that in love with civilization for example, a shapeshifter mage.
Shapeshifter mage, what kind of drek is that? Can you imagine a bear or
wolf interested in that kind of stuff. Oh well, stranger things have
happenned in the awakened world.
Dust

Message no. 70 |None of which means anything either way since captain caveman
|appeared on Scooby Doo.

He did?
Typical Hanna-Barbera crossover I suppose....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 71 Spike wrote:
|
| |None of which means anything either way since captain caveman
| |appeared on Scooby Doo.
|
| He did?

Oh yeah. I had almost forgotten about that episode (I used
to watch Scooby Doo religiously every morning before going
to school, until they brought in Scrappy Doo :(

Man talk about topic drift :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

Message no. 72 David Buehrer wrote,
>Spike wrote:
>|
>| |None of which means anything either way since captain caveman
>| |appeared on Scooby Doo.
>|
>| He did?
>
>Oh yeah. I had almost forgotten about that episode (I used
>to watch Scooby Doo religiously every morning before going
>to school, until they brought in Scrappy Doo :(
Don't forget Laffalypics I think it was called. Scooby do had his
own team the Scooby Doobies, one of three teams compeating. That one had
most of the main Hanna Barbara characters im it. Talk about making the
connections easier.
>
>Man talk about topic drift :)
Yeah, I think this should be it's own thread now.

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23

Message no. 73 Mail*Link® SMTP RE>>Questions about stuff

>Spike wrote:
>|
>| |None of which means anything either way since captain caveman
>| |appeared on Scooby Doo.
>|
>| He did?
>
>Oh yeah. I had almost forgotten about that episode (I used
>to watch Scooby Doo religiously every morning before going
>to school, until they brought in Scrappy Doo :(

P-P-P-Puppy Power go get em Uncle Scooby.

Message no. 74 |P-P-P-Puppy Power go get em Uncle Scooby.
|

You just had to drag this conversation into the sewer, didn't you....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 75 At 01:32 AM 1/9/97 +0000, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>Shhh! Don't tell the colonials that or they'll all want one too! :)

Don't worry about it, Paul. We're really not that big on stuff that comes
out of a country who's major exports last year were smog and "1001 more
things you can boil and eat." :)

Mike Broadwater

Message no. 76 At 08:50 AM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Heavy pistols are wimpy. Real men use SMGs. :)
> Dust
>
Hmmmm.... I'm fighting to not use the big "M" word here....:):):)

Bull
--
<.sig seperator now included at no extra cost, because I can>
=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"What the heck happened to my superheroes???"
-Me, after seeing the new Marvel Comics revamps of
Capt. America and the Hulk.

Message no. 77 > >Heavy pistols are wimpy. Real men use SMGs. :)

I was bored so I made a character sorta like the guy in Last Man
Standing. Took him into combat he had 8 dice and a -1 to all firearm
rolls. Before they even got there weapons out I had shot out two of
there kneecaps. Next round I had killed the remaining to with head
shots. *Smartlink II Rules!* btw I was using a Heavy Pistol.. so
don't say HP are wimpy :P

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
KnightOwl on Efnet

Message no. 78 |
|At 01:32 AM 1/9/97 +0000, Paul J. Adam wrote:
|>Shhh! Don't tell the colonials that or they'll all want one too! :)
|
|Don't worry about it, Paul. We're really not that big on stuff that comes
|out of a country who's major exports last year were smog and "1001 more
|things you can boil and eat." :)

And I thought that was america......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 79 At 10:47 AM 1/9/97 +1100, you wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, David Buehrer wrote:
>
>> >Hi tehre... I have a couple more questions to pitch at ya'll...
>> >
>> >1) What's your preferred Hand Gun from SR, and why?
>>
>> The large net gun. My players hate that thing :)
>
>Yeah, players are really annoyed when you throw in net guns, narcoject
>pistols - ahh, bliss.
>
>Here's a question I just thought of: How easy should it be for a
>character to identify a weapon (not concealed), and then, how much should
>they know about it? There's no skill called weapon ID and even if there
>was, I don't think anyone would take it.
>
>I find it troublesome when the PCs ID a gun and whip out extra copies of
>Street Sam or some other text to check the gun out (as far as accessories
>and damage) to gauge the "threat" of the weapon.
>
>Shaman
>
I thought it was covered under the firearms skill, and if you don't like
that answer make it covered under the firearm b/r skill.
Mark Terilli

Message no. 80 On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Gurth wrote:

> At any rate I wouldn't allow them to grab a book and look up the gun's
> stats unless they've positively ID'd the weapon (or think they have).

Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
thing up.

Shaman

Message no. 81 |
|On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Gurth wrote:
|
|> At any rate I wouldn't allow them to grab a book and look up the gun's
|> stats unless they've positively ID'd the weapon (or think they have).
|
|Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
|copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
|thing up.

In which case, change it the moment they start looking....

You: "It's a Predator II"
That lot: <They all start rummaging through the books>

You: "He shoots you with it. Take 6D Stun"

That lot: "Eh? It doesn't say that here....."
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 82 <el snipo>
> Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
> copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
> thing up.
>
> Shaman

Your the GM right? Doc 'em Karma if the look 'em up, tell them that if
they touch the books that they die immediatly.

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

Message no. 83 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

> |
> |On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Gurth wrote:
> |
> |> At any rate I wouldn't allow them to grab a book and look up the gun's
> |> stats unless they've positively ID'd the weapon (or think they have).
> |
> |Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
> |copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
> |thing up.
>
> In which case, change it the moment they start looking....
>
> You: "It's a Predator II"
> That lot: <They all start rummaging through the books>
>
> You: "He shoots you with it. Take 6D Stun"
>
> That lot: "Eh? It doesn't say that here....."

Correction: that lot: "Must be using gel rounds, let's kill the bugger,
he just made his last mistake."

Besides, my group is very fast at looking things up - some even have
stats on some weapons memorized. I think I'm going to have to resort to
some good old traditional **&* techniques (remember how everyone knew
exactly what every piece of magical equipment did when you just gave it a
name?)

Shaman

Message no. 84 In message <3.0.32.19970109151602.009aa920@********>, Michael Broadwater
<mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM> writes
>At 01:32 AM 1/9/97 +0000, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>>Shhh! Don't tell the colonials that or they'll all want one too! :)
>
>Don't worry about it, Paul. We're really not that big on stuff that comes
>out of a country who's major exports last year were smog and "1001 more
>things you can boil and eat." :)

No problem, Mike, _you_ explain to the General Audit Office how come you
rejected Sting Ray in 1981 as "too slow, too expensive, and too
unreliable".

Then you went on to develop the "better" Mark 50 which proved to cost
twice as much as Sting Ray, was no faster, and while Sting Ray is
_still_ earning us bonuses for superlative reliability and
maintainability Mark 50 was cancelled in 1993 because it was a fifty-
fifty chance whether the weapon would start up or blow up at launch :)

But hey, I can breathe without a gasmask in London, can you say the same
about Los Angeles? And the only foods I boil are pasta, rice and Chinese
noodles. There are other methods of cooking than frying, you know,
especially if you're not American :)

(dons asbestos and raises Magnum-calibre carp menacingly)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 85 On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Caric wrote:

> <el snipo>
> > Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
> > copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
> > thing up.
> >
> > Shaman
>
> Your the GM right? Doc 'em Karma if the look 'em up, tell them that if
> they touch the books that they die immediatly.

A bit harsh, I must say.

Actually, are you using the GM spell - Slay annoying player?, or have you
anchored a death touch spell onto the books with a detect player spell?

Shaman

Message no. 86 On Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:13:23 -0500 Roger An <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
>While we're on the subject of SMGs. I love the Heckler and Koch
>HK227.
>It's a wonderful weapon. Get a improved gas vent 4 and gyro
>stabilization
>unit on it and you won't be able to walk down the street but it'd be
>pretty damn cool. What's your favorite SMG?

I don't believe you can mount a Gas Vent 4 on a HK 227 under standard
rules. I think they come with a (normal) Gas Vent 3, which would normally
be unremovable.

> Oh, and are all you shapeshifters sure you're playing your
>characters right? I mean a shapeshifter is an animal first and then a
>person so they "have" to act bestial in some sort of manner. I saw
>the
>rules in the Shadowrun Companion for making shapeshifters, too and I'd
>have to say that it offers a variety of options but shapeshifters
>should
>not be that in love with civilization for example, a shapeshifter
>mage.
>Shapeshifter mage, what kind of drek is that? Can you imagine a bear
>or
>wolf interested in that kind of stuff. Oh well, stranger things have
>happenned in the awakened world.
> Dust
>
<sigh> I guess it's time to explain that, huh? The story (originally
conceived as a lame excuse for why the shaper would be interacting with
humanity and a mage to boot, back when I was a munchkin*) was that Lyle
Canthros (the character's name**) was abandoned by his pack while still
an infant (cub?) he was found by a pair of humans, who raised him till
his teens, when they were killed. While living on the streets as a teen,
the local pack of werewolves found him, and informed im of his true
nature, then educated him in the full use of his powers...It gets lamer
every time I think about it...the main reason that the character was a
mage and not a shaman was that I don't like shamans that much (too many
restrictions upon the character's actions, IMO). Since things have
changed quite a bit, I've since taken the chance to totally revamp the
character for use as an NPC.

The character is still interacting with humanity, and he's still a mage.
The current story is that he originally ran the shadows because of
intense curiosity about humanity. For the same reason, he also studied
hermetic magic, to learn more about Man, and his motives. I won't go any
farther than that, because one of my players is currently on-list (or
will be by the time this gets to the list) and I'd prefer to keep some
secrets.

He's always been my favorite character, even though I didn't get a whole
of karma under his belt, and he certainly wasn't the best one I ever
wrote up.

*all of a year and a half ago...I'm better now...
**it's a pun:)

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage

Message no. 87 > Dont you have to be a U.S citizen for ten years before you can get gun
> licenses? If not (And with free local calls) I WANNA MOVE!!! (Gues I
should
> let go of that shiftbutton now...)
>
> -----
> Sent By That Guy Called Hannes

Nope, once your a US citizen, you have all the rights and responsibilities
of every other citizen, natural born or naturalized (except, you cant be
president, gotta be natural born to hold that job). What you may be tinking
is that it could take you 10 years to get citizenship, in which case, your
really in the same boat.

Sgt Pepper, US citizen and Canadian Permanent Resident, go figure.

Visit Elfman's World at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani
or Danitaville at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani/index.html

Message no. 88 Paul J. Adam stated,
>(dons asbestos and raises Magnum-calibre carp menacingly)
Hey... er.. <thinking it over> I, uh, was going to make some comment
about blancmange but nevermind.

- MC23, backing away slowly with his hands in plain sight -

Message no. 89 Calvin Hsieh said on 11:27/10 Jan 97...

> > At any rate I wouldn't allow them to grab a book and look up the gun's
> > stats unless they've positively ID'd the weapon (or think they have).
>
> Sorry, in my group there's 4 copies of street sam, 3 copies of FoF, 4
> copies of SR. Can't get to them fast enough before someone looks the damn
> thing up.

I can see how that would be a problem... A way to solve it is to describe
it in general terms -- you: "It's a black pistol, it looks pretty large."

Player, grabbing SSC: "Can I roll a Perception test to see what gun it
is, exactly?"

You: "Sure, roll Intelligence. It looks like a Predator, but the exact
model is hard to make out. Oh, and you lose your first action as you try
to get a good look at the gun."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 90 John E Pederson said on 21:46/ 9 Jan 97...

> I don't believe you can mount a Gas Vent 4 on a HK 227 under standard
> rules. I think they come with a (normal) Gas Vent 3, which would normally
> be unremovable.

Almost anything is removable...

HK 227 + hacksaw + gas vent 4 + a few minutes' work = HK 227 w/gas vent 4

The only times I think this does not apply, is when a picture (or
description) of the weapon clearly shows a built-in device, like an
internal smartlink or the laser sight of the LD-120 light pistol (SSC
p.24).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 91 Gurth wrote:
>
> John E Pederson said on 21:46/ 9 Jan 97...
>
> > I don't believe you can mount a Gas Vent 4 on a HK 227 under standard
> > rules. I think they come with a (normal) Gas Vent 3, which would normally
> > be unremovable.
>
> Almost anything is removable...
>
> HK 227 + hacksaw + gas vent 4 + a few minutes' work = HK 227 w/gas >vent 4

Wouldn't it just be easier to get your gun kit and swap out the barrel
:)

>
> The only times I think this does not apply, is when a picture (or
> description) of the weapon clearly shows a built-in device, like an
> internal smartlink or the laser sight of the LD-120 light pistol (SSC
> p.24).

I always assumed that with a little work a gun could be modified, the
only factor being that these things aren't cumulative (and of course
that it will cost, sometimes more than its worth). You cant put a GV on
a 227-s, if you do it is no londer -s. (and of course it helps to at
least have a weaponsmithing kit, your already defaulting in all
probability, no need for inadequate tools)

Message no. 92 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:58:53 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>John E Pederson said on 21:46/ 9 Jan 97...
>
>> I don't believe you can mount a Gas Vent 4 on a HK 227 under
>standard
>> rules. I think they come with a (normal) Gas Vent 3, which would
>normally
>> be unremovable.
>
>Almost anything is removable...
>
>HK 227 + hacksaw + gas vent 4 + a few minutes' work = HK 227 w/gas
>vent 4
>
>The only times I think this does not apply, is when a picture (or
>description) of the weapon clearly shows a built-in device, like an
>internal smartlink or the laser sight of the LD-120 light pistol (SSC
>p.24).

I was merely stating that the standard rules (AFAIK) stated that a Gas
Vent could not be removed once installed...Of course it's removable:),
but in the same way you're arm is removable:)

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage

Message no. 93 At 11:17 PM 1/9/97 +0000, Spike wrote:
>|Don't worry about it, Paul. We're really not that big on stuff that comes
>|out of a country who's major exports last year were smog and "1001 more
>|things you can boil and eat." :)
>
>And I thought that was america......
>
No, no, no, Spike. It's an easy mistake though, considering the USA's
exports last year were smog and "1001 more things you can _fry_ and eat."

Mike Broadwater

Message no. 94 At 12:00 AM 1/10/97 +0000, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>No problem, Mike, _you_ explain to the General Audit Office how come you
>rejected Sting Ray in 1981 as "too slow, too expensive, and too
>unreliable".
>
>Then you went on to develop the "better" Mark 50 which proved to cost
>twice as much as Sting Ray, was no faster, and while Sting Ray is
>_still_ earning us bonuses for superlative reliability and
>maintainability Mark 50 was cancelled in 1993 because it was a fifty-
>fifty chance whether the weapon would start up or blow up at launch :)
>
>But hey, I can breathe without a gasmask in London, can you say the same
>about Los Angeles?
Yes. Have you been to LA, or are you arguing using popular English media
myths? And, out of curiousity, when did you guys develop the nuke? Before
or after us? One torpedo (no matter how much it kicks ass) does not a
military make.

I was ribbing you for calling us colonials, don't get so upset. Let's not
let this turn into a "Which side is better?" or I'll start talking about
how we don't need warmongering weapon builders anymore.

Mike Broadwater

Message no. 95 Mail*Link® SMTP RE>>Questions about stuff

From Gurth
>Player, grabbing SSC: "Can I roll a Perception test to see what gun it
>is, exactly?"
>
>You: "Sure, roll Intelligence. It looks like a Predator, but the exact
>model is hard to make out. Oh, and you lose your first action as you try
>to get a good look at the gun."

Boy you are generous I would put a base time of lets see, if you wish to =
retain your combat pool 2 combat rounds for the perception test (you =
aren't standing still and he isn't displaying it like Vanna White) base Tn =
4 use your Int or special skill Identify firearms use sucesses to either =
divide into the base time (use actions as fractions of a combat round) or =
increase your knowledge. 1 sucess for knowledge gets you the basic type =
(hp,smg,etc). 2 gives you the manufactureror similar info. 3 gives you the =
model name. 4 or more gets you any enhancements made to the gun. =
Alternatively you can spend a simple action and make a perception test to =
get the weapon class (just like 1 sucess) Or you could stand still, loose =
your combat pool, and stare at it as he fires it at you. This would cut =
the base time and modified Tn in half.

Steve C Aka Rasilio

Message no. 96 > > Your the GM right? Doc 'em Karma if the look 'em up, tell them that if
> > they touch the books that they die immediatly.
>
> A bit harsh, I must say.
>
> Actually, are you using the GM spell - Slay annoying player?, or have you
> anchored a death touch spell onto the books with a detect player spell?
>
> Shaman

Oh yes very harsh, but that's the point ;)

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

Message no. 97 Bull[SMTP:chaos@*****.COM] wrote:
>At 08:50 AM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Heavy pistols are wimpy. Real men use SMGs. :)
>> Dust
>>
>Hmmmm.... I'm fighting to not use the big "M" word here....:):):)

Ummm, A heavy pistol in SRII is superior to a SMG on single shot, and
compares favorably with one when on BF. A SMG cannot be silienced, only
suppressed, and is usually less concealable. Then you have such oddities as
the Savalette and the Thunderbolt.

Preferring SMG's is not Munchie. A little daft, but not munchie

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 98 Mail*Link® SMTP RE>>Questions about stuff

>At 08:50 AM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Heavy pistols are wimpy. Real men use SMGs. :)
>> Dust
>>
>Hmmmm.... I'm fighting to not use the big "M" word here....:):):)

Munchkins use Gyromounted Miniguns firing Apds Ammo
Real Men use Shotguns
Real Roleplayers use Tasers
Loonies use Narcojets loaded with LSD

Sorry I just hadta

Message no. 99 Charles Baker said on 3:24/10 Jan 97...

> > HK 227 + hacksaw + gas vent 4 + a few minutes' work = HK 227 w/gas >vent 4
>
> Wouldn't it just be easier to get your gun kit and swap out the barrel
> :)

If the gas vent isn't permanently fixed to the barrel, sure. You could
even unscrew it if it's fixed that way. But a hacksaw is just more a lot
impressive... :)

> I always assumed that with a little work a gun could be modified, the
> only factor being that these things aren't cumulative (and of course
> that it will cost, sometimes more than its worth). You cant put a GV on
> a 227-s, if you do it is no londer -s.

It's still an HK227S, but without the sound suppresser. The differences
between 227 and 227S are the suppresser on one, and gas vent on the other,
and the 227 is SA/BF/FA while the 227S is SA/BF only. So you'd have an SMG
with SA/BF firing modes and a gas vent 4 on the barrel.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 100 In message <199701091346.OAA10710@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> writes
>You could either make players a roll for this (Intelligence, Firearms,
>Firearms B/R, or the special skill of Firearms Trivia come to mind), or
>base it on the character's background. For example, a character who's been
>in the army should be able to indentify most weapons used by that army,
>but not the stuff that an army hardly ever encounters;

Definitely. I can usually ID weapons in movies at a glance, but Total
Recall threw me for a _long_ time. I recognised MP-5s, Mini-Uzis and
some vanilla and dressed-up Ingrams, but the assault rifles the security
guards use and the pistols threw me until I read a friend's Gun Digest
and saw both advertised.

Ditto, one class of weapons I just can't do much with is shotguns. I can
spot a SPAS-12, but that's it. Shotguns don't really happen in the
British Army or in military small-arms guides.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 101 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:03:57 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
>Just thought you guys would like to know that some of my players love
>to
>use tasers. The cat shaman and the elven combat mage whose a tir
>tairngire paladin revel in such shock therapy. ;)
> Dust
One of your PCs is a Tir Paladin?! Is this through roleplay or was that
their character background...

Canthros-the-thought-he-let-his-players-get-away-with-stuff-shapeshifter-mage

Message no. 102 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:02:39 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
> SMG's kick arse. You can't shoot heavy pistols on burst fire
>or
>full automatic. It's not being a munchkin because it keep your arse
>alive. Heavy pistols ranges are worse too. The only good thing is the
>concealibility factor.
> Dust
Using an SMG is not munchkin. Heavy pistol ranges aren't all that great,
either. And they do have good concealability, usually. However, at least
two official heavy pistols cam fire in burst. And I wouldn't say that the
only good thing about a heavy pistol is concealability. They do higher
damage, they don't weigh as much, they're not generally as illegal:)

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage

Message no. 103 Paul J. Adam said on 0:40/11 Jan 97...

> Definitely. I can usually ID weapons in movies at a glance, but Total
> Recall threw me for a _long_ time. I recognised MP-5s, Mini-Uzis and
> some vanilla and dressed-up Ingrams, but the assault rifles the security
> guards use and the pistols threw me until I read a friend's Gun Digest
> and saw both advertised.

Weren't those AUGs? (I'm not sure, it's been some time since I watched TR;
it was on TV yesterday but I liked Wayne's World better :)

> Ditto, one class of weapons I just can't do much with is shotguns. I can
> spot a SPAS-12, but that's it. Shotguns don't really happen in the
> British Army or in military small-arms guides.

On top of that, most traditional-looking shotguns appear more or less the
same, whereas rifles and SMGs tend to have a more "unique" look to them.
Although I do believe the British Army uses Remington 870 shotguns in
Northern Ireland, and the USMC uses four different types.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 104 Gurth wrote:

> If the gas vent isn't permanently fixed to the barrel, sure. You could
> even unscrew it if it's fixed that way. But a hacksaw is just more a lot
> impressive... :)

Oh it is permenetly fixed to the barrel IMO, thats why you need to
replace the barrel entirely.

I don't know a lot about firearms but my understanding with current
barrel venting techniques (with shotguns anyway) is that they cut holes
in the barrel as part of the venting process, actually to my
understanding thats the whole venting process today, but the vents in SR
are much better and probably require more, but I would doubt less. This
also meshes with the concept they can't be removed, they are part of the
barrel, of course barrels can be removed easily.

> It's still an HK227S, but without the sound suppresser. The differences
> between 227 and 227S are the suppresser on one, and gas vent on the other,
> and the 227 is SA/BF/FA while the 227S is SA/BF only. So you'd have an SMG
> with SA/BF firing modes and a gas vent 4 on the barrel.

So I guess you actually have an HK 227-g. :)

Kevin P. Feathers wrote:
>
> Got a Q....Has anyone worked on a method to install gas vents with sound
> suppressors or silencers? They both need use a barrell mount, but today it
> is conceivable to get recoil comp. and sound suppression at the same time,
> right?
>
(The following is me talking out of my ass, I could be wrong, but to my
understanding it is true.)

Compensation probably, venting, probably not. Venting forces the
escaping gas to exit the barrel in a different manner to control recoil,
suppresors allow the gas to expand outside the barrel before the fully
exiting, to reduce the noise*. A system could be designed to encompase
both ideas but frankly I would imagine it being massive, suddently your
silencer has to encompass the entire barrel of the gun**.

*I still say they wouldn't work on most sr guns there is no way you can
make me believe that a predator, much less a baret are subsonic, so the
modifier should apply to spotting the shooter but not hearing the
bullet.

**Hey for that matter how do automatic pistols have their barrels
vented, isn't the majority of the barrel inside the slide?

Message no. 105 Gurth[SMTP:gurth@******.NL] wrote:
>Charles Baker said on 3:24/10 Jan 97...
>
>> > HK 227 + hacksaw + gas vent 4 + a few minutes' work = HK 227 w/gas
>vent 4
>>
>> Wouldn't it just be easier to get your gun kit and swap out the barrel
>> :)
>
>If the gas vent isn't permanently fixed to the barrel, sure. You could
>even unscrew it if it's fixed that way. But a hacksaw is just more a lot
>impressive... :)
>
>> I always assumed that with a little work a gun could be modified, the
>> only factor being that these things aren't cumulative (and of course
>> that it will cost, sometimes more than its worth). You cant put a GV on
>> a 227-s, if you do it is no londer -s.
>
>It's still an HK227S, but without the sound suppresser. The differences
>between 227 and 227S are the suppresser on one, and gas vent on the other,
>and the 227 is SA/BF/FA while the 227S is SA/BF only. So you'd have an SMG
>with SA/BF firing modes and a gas vent 4 on the barrel.

My view on this is that a gas-vent is a barrel modification. To remove it,
you must change out the barrel and any barrel shroud or slide that is
present. Especially for weapons that come with integral gas-venting. So I
wouldn't let someone swap off between a silencer/suppressor and a gas-vent
easily. OTOH, I would allo the gas-venting on a weapon to be
upgraded/downgraded with some work by a gunsmith.

But not a few minutes work. A good hour or more. Perhaps a Firearms B/R (5)
test with a base time of 4 hours. (Less time if you have a replacement
barrel prepared already. But most weapons do not support quick barrel
changes.)

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 106 On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:54:31 -0800 Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
writes:
>Gurth wrote:
>
>> If the gas vent isn't permanently fixed to the barrel, sure. You
>could
>> even unscrew it if it's fixed that way. But a hacksaw is just more a
>lot
>> impressive... :)
>
>Oh it is permenetly fixed to the barrel IMO, thats why you need to
>replace the barrel entirely.

I don't think so (but I probably know less about firearms than anyone
else on the list, so...). I'm reasonably sure I saw a barrel port (a Gas
Vent:) advertised in a sporting catalog a little while back, and it seems
to me, that for 40 or 80 bucks, they weren't selling an entire barrel.

<snip>
>Kevin P. Feathers wrote:
>>
>> Got a Q....Has anyone worked on a method to install gas vents
>with sound
>> suppressors or silencers? They both need use a barrell mount, but
>today it
>> is conceivable to get recoil comp. and sound suppression at the same
>time,
>> right?
>>
>(The following is me talking out of my ass, I could be wrong, but to
>my
>understanding it is true.)
>
>Compensation probably, venting, probably not. Venting forces the
>escaping gas to exit the barrel in a different manner to control
>recoil,
>suppresors allow the gas to expand outside the barrel before the fully
>exiting, to reduce the noise*. A system could be designed to
>encompase
>both ideas but frankly I would imagine it being massive, suddently
>your
>silencer has to encompass the entire barrel of the gun**.

This I mostly agree with, but I don't think it would have to be that
big...

>*I still say they wouldn't work on most sr guns there is no way you
>can
>make me believe that a predator, much less a baret are subsonic, so
>the
>modifier should apply to spotting the shooter but not hearing the
>bullet.
>
>**Hey for that matter how do automatic pistols have their barrels
>vented, isn't the majority of the barrel inside the slide?

They stick the port in the end of the barrel, it then funnels the gas up
and out to prevent barrel climb...that's biggest reason I liked Paul
Adams' article on GV's in NERPS: Underworld...

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 107 In message <199701111107.MAA14862@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> writes
>Paul J. Adam said on 0:40/11 Jan 97...
>> Definitely. I can usually ID weapons in movies at a glance, but Total
>> Recall threw me for a _long_ time....the assault rifles the security
>> guards use and the pistols threw me until I read a friend's Gun
Digest
>> and saw both advertised.
>
>Weren't those AUGs? (I'm not sure, it's been some time since I watched TR;
>it was on TV yesterday but I liked Wayne's World better :)

No, they were Ruger Mini-14s in aftermarket bull-pup stocks. Certainly a
little unusual :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 108 In message <32D77A56.5E4E@**.netcom.com>, Charles Baker
<karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM> writes
>
>I don't know a lot about firearms but my understanding with current
>barrel venting techniques (with shotguns anyway) is that they cut holes
>in the barrel as part of the venting process, actually to my
>understanding thats the whole venting process today,

Nope. That's one option, but more common are compensators that attach to
the muzzle: sometimes as replacement barrels, other times as bolt-on
fittings.

>
>**Hey for that matter how do automatic pistols have their barrels
>vented, isn't the majority of the barrel inside the slide?

You use an extended barrel, or an open-topped slide (the Glock 24L uses
the second option).

And the 24L is interesting, in that compensated weapons are banned in
IPSC Stock Class, so it comes with two barrels: one ported, the other
not. It's about two minutes' work to change barrels :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 109 In message <Pine.SGI.3.95.970109090827.21789A-
100000@*******.bergen.org>, Roger An <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes
>While we're on the subject of SMGs. I love the Heckler and Koch HK227.
>It's a wonderful weapon. Get a improved gas vent 4 and gyro stabilization
>unit on it and you won't be able to walk down the street but it'd be
>pretty damn cool.

Since you're forgetting about concealability, why not just go the whole
hog and get a medium MG? :) Not much point gyromounting smaller weapons
IMHO.

>What's your favorite SMG?

For types with security/military backgrounds, they tend to like HK227s.
My street characters favour Ingram Smartguns or AK-97 carbines.

> Oh, and are all you shapeshifters sure you're playing your
>characters right? I mean a shapeshifter is an animal first and then a
>person so they "have" to act bestial in some sort of manner.

My wife plays a shapeshifter, and think about this: okay, being a human
has drawbacks, but how does a leopard phone out for pizza, get
antibiotics for that nasty infection, watch a Brawl game or do any of
those other interesting human things?

Isn't it nice, sleeping indoors where it's warm and you don't get rained
on? Food is something you can get from the refrigerator, no more risking
starvation because of a thorn in your paw, no more having to kill
livestock and getting shot at by irate farmers.

But you do need to know a reasonable amountabout the animal, and play
its personality.

>I saw the
>rules in the Shadowrun Companion for making shapeshifters, too and I'd
>have to say that it offers a variety of options but shapeshifters should
>not be that in love with civilization

See above :)

>for example, a shapeshifter mage.
>Shapeshifter mage, what kind of drek is that? Can you imagine a bear or
>wolf interested in that kind of stuff. Oh well, stranger things have
>happenned in the awakened world.

I admit I can't easily see a shapeshifter being a hermetic magician.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 110 In message <01BBFFAD.DFBC3820@*********.belt.digex.net>, Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>
>My view on this is that a gas-vent is a barrel modification. To remove it,
>you must change out the barrel and any barrel shroud or slide that is
>present. Especially for weapons that come with integral gas-venting. So I
>wouldn't let someone swap off between a silencer/suppressor and a gas-vent
>easily.

I would, for a Gas Vent 2: it might well just be a ported barrel rather
than a compensator, and you could fit a silencer over it, blanking it
off.

>But most weapons do not support quick barrel
>changes.)

Define "quick". I can change barrels on most of the automatic pistols
I've handled in two or three minutes, tops, without tools. SMGs and
rifles, no: I don't think the barrel on an AK _can_ be fired.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 111 Charles Baker said on 3:54/11 Jan 97...

> I don't know a lot about firearms but my understanding with current
> barrel venting techniques (with shotguns anyway) is that they cut holes
> in the barrel as part of the venting process, actually to my
> understanding thats the whole venting process today, but the vents in SR
> are much better and probably require more, but I would doubt less. This
> also meshes with the concept they can't be removed, they are part of the
> barrel, of course barrels can be removed easily.

There are several ways of adding gas venting (to stick to SR terms; IRL
it would usually be called a muzzle brake) to a weapon. You can cut holes
or slots in the barrel, you can take a flash suppresser and close off the
bottom hole (as is done in the M16A2, though it doesn't work all that
great I believe), or you can add a real muzzle brake to the barrel, as for
example the AK-74 has. Apart from the barrel-with-holes-in-it, all could
be made either fixed or removable in various ways.

The way I see SR add-on gas vents, are improved versions of the type of
muzzle brake fitted to the AK-74, that are not permanently attached to
the barrel. Weapons that come with integral gas vent could again use
various methods: maybe the vent is forged as part of the barrel, maybe
there's screw thread around the muzzle, or whatever. All in all I'd say
it's a GM's call...

> So I guess you actually have an HK 227-g. :)

Knowing Heckler & Koch, there're bound to be about 100 different models
of the HK 227, almost all of which can be created from the others by
swapping a few parts. Just at a guess, try the following:

Stock: fixed, folded, or none
Sound Suppresser: yes or no
Firing modes: SA only, SA/BF, SA/BF/FA, or SA/FA

Just these options give 24 different models, now add in various gas vents,
laser sights, smartlinks, and short models... :)

[sound suppresser/gas vent combos]
> Compensation probably, venting, probably not. Venting forces the
> escaping gas to exit the barrel in a different manner to control recoil,
> suppresors allow the gas to expand outside the barrel before the fully
> exiting, to reduce the noise*. A system could be designed to encompase
> both ideas but frankly I would imagine it being massive, suddently your
> silencer has to encompass the entire barrel of the gun**.

You could easily combine a suppresser with shock pads, or with some kind
of internal recoil compensator (for example one that allows the whole
mechanism to recoil in the weapon, much like with large caliber guns).
IMHO/AFAIK fitting both a gas vent (muzzle brake) and a sound suppresser
to a gun isn't possible -- certainly not in SR, because a weapon can only
take one barrel-mounted accessory.

> *I still say they wouldn't work on most sr guns there is no way you can
> make me believe that a predator, much less a baret are subsonic, so the
> modifier should apply to spotting the shooter but not hearing the
> bullet.

You could use subsonic ammo and/or a barrel with holes drilled in it, if
you don't mind loss of accuracy at longer ranges.

> **Hey for that matter how do automatic pistols have their barrels
> vented, isn't the majority of the barrel inside the slide?

Extend the barrel a few cm and you can cut venting ports in it -- it's
done for many target shooting variants of, say, the M1911A1.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 112 Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>In message <01BBFFAD.DFBC3820@*********.belt.digex.net>, Jonathan Hurley
><jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>>
>>My view on this is that a gas-vent is a barrel modification. To remove
it,
>>you must change out the barrel and any barrel shroud or slide that is
>>present. Especially for weapons that come with integral gas-venting. So I
>>wouldn't let someone swap off between a silencer/suppressor and a
gas-vent
>>easily.
>
>I would, for a Gas Vent 2: it might well just be a ported barrel rather
>than a compensator, and you could fit a silencer over it, blanking it
>off.

Right. But at that point, the gas venting becomes irrelevant. Assuming the
vents are close enough to the front of the barrel.

>>But most weapons do not support quick barrel
>>changes.)
>
>Define "quick". I can change barrels on most of the automatic pistols
>I've handled in two or three minutes, tops, without tools. SMGs and
>rifles, no: I don't think the barrel on an AK _can_ be fired.

(fired?)

Combat rounds is quick. For those barrel changes, you already have both
barrels, correct?

Also, your comments seem to apply to pistols. Honestly, I don't see much of
a reason to rapidly change between a ported/vented configuration to a
silences configuration. Even in rapid fire, a character will only take a +1
modifier on his second shot. For machine pistols I can possibly see wanting
to be able to swap off between compensation or silencing, but I don't see a
lot of characters using machine pistols in combat.

Oh well.

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 113 On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, John E Pederson wrote:

>> One of your PCs is a Tir Paladin?! Is this through roleplay or was that
> their character background...
>
> Canthros-the-thought-he-let-his-players-get-away-with-stuff-shapeshifter-mage
>
It was through roleplay. Very long story. :)
Dust

Message no. 114 Paul J. Adam wrote:
> Nope. That's one option, but more common are compensators that attach to
> the muzzle: sometimes as replacement barrels, other times as bolt-on
> fittings.

So what is a muzzle brake and how does it work (in brief if possible)?
Thanks in advance.
(Barrels vents are pretty common on shotguns in my expierience and I
have yet to meet anybody with a muzzle brake for any weapon :)

Message no. 115 In message <01BC0069.A3204B60@*********.belt.digex.net>, Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>>Define "quick". I can change barrels on most of the automatic pistols
>>I've handled in two or three minutes, tops, without tools. SMGs and
>>rifles, no: I don't think the barrel on an AK _can_ be fired.
>
>(fired?)

Oops, changed. :)

>Combat rounds is quick. For those barrel changes, you already have both
>barrels, correct?

Hard to change from one to another if you only have one.

>Also, your comments seem to apply to pistols. Honestly, I don't see much of
>a reason to rapidly change between a ported/vented configuration to a
>silences configuration. Even in rapid fire, a character will only take a +1
>modifier on his second shot. For machine pistols I can possibly see wanting
>to be able to swap off between compensation or silencing, but I don't see a
>lot of characters using machine pistols in combat.

Well, if you look in a civilian Glock catalogue you'll see the 17, 19,
20 and up to wherever they are right now. The 18 is a selective-fire
machine pistol variant of the 17 and the reason the 33-round 9mm
magazines were developed.

There's a good reason to want to be able to change: a single-shot
silenced weapon, or a burst-fire machine pistol with a recoil
compensator.

And the Glock 18 equates pretty nicely to the Ruger Thunderbolt (having
fired the 17, 19 and 21)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 116 On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:36:38 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>>> One of your PCs is a Tir Paladin?! Is this through roleplay or was
>that
>> their character background...
>>
>>
>Canthros-the-thought-he-let-his-players-get-away-with-stuff-shapeshifter-mage
>>
>It was through roleplay. Very long story. :)
> Dust
>
Just checking:)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 117 Charles Baker said on 14:52/12 Jan 97...

> So what is a muzzle brake and how does it work (in brief if possible)?
> Thanks in advance.

Really simple: See the diagram below for starters.

---------- \
barrel
---------- /

When the bullet comes out of the barrel, it passes the holes in the side,
and gas escapes through them to the side and back, being deflected by the
angled surfaces at the front; this gas gives a force acting against the
direction of recoil, thereby lessening it. Muzzle brakes have been used on
tank and artillery guns since WWII, and on rifles since about the 1970s;
the reason modern tank guns don't use them anymore is because they fire
APFSDS ammo, whose sabots c/would end up getting caught by the muzzle
brake.

> (Barrels vents are pretty common on shotguns in my expierience and I
> have yet to meet anybody with a muzzle brake for any weapon :)

You've never run into any Russian soldiers, then :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 118 In a message dated 1/9/97 08:39:19 AM, you wrote:

>[SNIP]
><snip by Mike>
>
>As these sourcebooks (in their original German form) are not easily
>available in the United States. The description and data of any
>weapon not listed elsewhere would be of great interest to me. For that
>matter it is likely that other Shadowrun Gamers would also be
>interested [FASAMike you are correct this is a completely unsubtle
>hint :-) ] enough to purchase a sourcebook containing this
>information.

There are no plans to publish this book in English. Sorry.

Have Fun!
Play Games!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com

Message no. 119 Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>In message <01BC0069.A3204B60@*********.belt.digex.net>, Jonathan Hurley
><jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>>Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>>>Define "quick". I can change barrels on most of the automatic
pistols
>>>I've handled in two or three minutes, tops, without tools. SMGs and
>>>rifles, no: I don't think the barrel on an AK _can_ be fired.
>>
>>(fired?)
>
>Oops, changed. :)
>
>>Combat rounds is quick. For those barrel changes, you already have both
>>barrels, correct?
>
>Hard to change from one to another if you only have one.
>
>>Also, your comments seem to apply to pistols. Honestly, I don't see much of
>>a reason to rapidly change between a ported/vented configuration to a
>>silences configuration. Even in rapid fire, a character will only take a +1
>>modifier on his second shot. For machine pistols I can possibly see wanting
>>to be able to swap off between compensation or silencing, but I don't see a
>>lot of characters using machine pistols in combat.
>
>Well, if you look in a civilian Glock catalogue you'll see the 17, 19,
>20 and up to wherever they are right now. The 18 is a selective-fire
>machine pistol variant of the 17 and the reason the 33-round 9mm
>magazines were developed.

Yes, you know that, and I know that, but a MP in SRII is a pretty pointless weapon for
most people.

>There's a good reason to want to be able to change: a single-shot
>silenced weapon, or a burst-fire machine pistol with a recoil
>compensator.
>
>And the Glock 18 equates pretty nicely to the Ruger Thunderbolt (having
>fired the 17, 19 and 21)

See, I class HP's as .357 Mag and up, leaving the 9mm in the LP and SMG guns.
OTOH, I changed the damage of HP's and LP's.

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength wet/dry vac is not
covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 120 Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>In message <01BC0069.A3204B60@*********.belt.digex.net>, Jonathan Hurley
><jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>>Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>>>Define "quick". I can change barrels on most of the automatic
pistols
>>>I've handled in two or three minutes, tops, without tools. SMGs and
>>>rifles, no: I don't think the barrel on an AK _can_ be fired.
>>
>>(fired?)
>
>Oops, changed. :)
>
>>Combat rounds is quick. For those barrel changes, you already have both
>>barrels, correct?
>
>Hard to change from one to another if you only have one.

Exactly. If you have both barrels, changing off barrels is easy. It takes a
while to *modify* a barrel. Pardon my inaccurate use of English. (I've been
corrupted by Americans.)

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 121 In message <32D96B41.5B3A@**.netcom.com>, Charles Baker
<karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM> writes
>Paul J. Adam wrote:
>> Nope. That's one option, but more common are compensators that attach to
>> the muzzle: sometimes as replacement barrels, other times as bolt-on
>> fittings.
>
>So what is a muzzle brake and how does it work (in brief if possible)?
>Thanks in advance.

A muzzle brake is a more effective version of barrel porting, using gas
baffles to redirect the gases that emerge following the projectile,
either to counter muzzle rise or to reduce recoil impulse. They can be
seen on many artillery pieces, and on the AK-74 assault rifle.

Basically, they squirt gases "up" or "sideways and back" to either usj
the gun down, or pull it forwards, thus counteracting the effects of
recoil.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 122 Jonathan Hurley wrote,
> Pardon my inaccurate use of English.
> (I've been corrupted by Americans.)

Go Team!

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23

Message no. 123 In message <01BC0196.6B6785C0@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>>And the Glock 18 equates pretty nicely to the Ruger Thunderbolt (having
>>fired the 17, 19 and 21)
>
>See, I class HP's as .357 Mag and up, leaving the 9mm in the LP and SMG guns.
>OTOH, I changed the damage of HP's and LP's.

Now here we differ. My wife is by no means feeble or weak, yet she has
real trouble firing my .45 and really doesn't like .357s.

SR doesn't put minimum Body on heavy pistols.

You see the problem? If someone with Strength 1 and Body 1 can fire a
heavy pistol without penalty, I really doubt that they're Desert Eagle-
class weapons. When I fired a .44 Desert Eagle, I thoroughly enjoyed it,
but it's not a weapon I'd want to rely on to save my life, and I'm 6' 2"
and 180lb: I find it a real handful.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Message no. 124 > From: ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

RE: Monofiliment net gun
> large groups. However single encounters in darkened alleys are prime
> grounds for this type of weapon. Like I said originally, it *is* pretty
> worthless in actual combat.

Ok, but how do you load it? "Bob, load that net gun for me please."
"No fragging way, Chuck. I lost a hand trying that last week." <G>

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 125 > From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Organization: Plastic Warriors
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> base it on the character's background. For example, a character who's been
> in the army should be able to indentify most weapons used by that army,
> but not the stuff that an army hardly ever encounters; while someone who's

I disagree. Part of the ongoing training bit is to learn what
weapons are in common use by your enemies. If you get into a decent
unit, you may get to fire weapons from other militaries. Now, this
only covers actual military weapons and not the basic civilian
weapons. My point is basicly that someone with a decent amount of
interest in firearms will be able to identify weapons by type (AK,
M16, etc) but may not know the difference between two different
models (the soviet AK47 vs the chinese version) This isn't something
you can judge by a braod background alone.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 126 On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:59:52 +0000 Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET> wrote:
* RE: Monofiliment net gun
* > large groups. However single encounters in darkened alleys are prime
* > grounds for this type of weapon. Like I said originally, it *is* pretty
* > worthless in actual combat.
*
* Ok, but how do you load it? "Bob, load that net gun for me please."
* "No fragging way, Chuck. I lost a hand trying that last week." <G>
*
*
* --Droopy
* droopy@**.net

Congratulations!! You've discovered the other limitation to this weapon!!
In order to load the weapon, you need specially made gloves and forearm
guards made with kevlar and monofilament line bonded together. These are
available (at additional cost) from the manufacturer.

\__________/
/\________/\ ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
/ /\______/\ \ It is said that money cannot buy one happiness.
/ / /\____/\ \ \ This is true.
/ / / /\ /\ \ \ \ However, it is also said that money is power,
__/_/_/_/__\/__\_\_\_\____ and power is the ability to make the lives of
\ \ \ \ /\ / / / / | others as miserable as your own.
\ \ \ \/__\/ / / / | -=Have a nice day!=-
\ \ \/____\/ / / | ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
\ \/______\/ / |
\/________\/ | ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
/ \ * whew !!!

Message no. 127 > From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> A muzzle brake is a more effective version of barrel porting, using gas
> baffles to redirect the gases that emerge following the projectile,
> either to counter muzzle rise or to reduce recoil impulse. They can be
> seen on many artillery pieces, and on the AK-74 assault rifle.

The M16A2's flash suppressor works in a similar way by venting the
gasses upwards.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 128 ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU said on 0:22/14 Jan 97...

> Congratulations!! You've discovered the other limitation to this weapon!!
> In order to load the weapon, you need specially made gloves and forearm
> guards made with kevlar and monofilament line bonded together. These are
> available (at additional cost) from the manufacturer.

Wouldn't they simply package the monofilament net in a container, so that
when you want to load the weapon, you clip the container into the netgun
and be done with it?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vliegen met die hap!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 129 Droopy said on 23:59/13 Jan 97...

> > base it on the character's background. For example, a character who's been
> > in the army should be able to indentify most weapons used by that army,
> > but not the stuff that an army hardly ever encounters; while someone who's
>
> I disagree. Part of the ongoing training bit is to learn what
> weapons are in common use by your enemies. If you get into a decent
> unit, you may get to fire weapons from other militaries. Now, this
> only covers actual military weapons and not the basic civilian
> weapons.

That is what I was aiming at... You handle your own weapons, possibly
those of friendly armies, and you learn something about the weapons of
posible enemies. But have you learned about Anschutz target rifles in the
US Army? WWI/WWII bolt action rifles? Panzerfausts? I know this may get
obscure, but what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of weapons out
there that are not normally encountered by an army, and so people with a
background in that army won't necessarily know much about them.

> My point is basicly that someone with a decent amount of interest in
> firearms will be able to identify weapons by type (AK, M16, etc) but may
> not know the difference between two different models (the soviet AK47 vs
> the chinese version) This isn't something you can judge by a braod
> background alone.

Not by broad background, but you can judge it by the character's other
interests. If he's been in the UCAS Army and his only hobby is cooking,
he'll likely be able to identify a weapon as "an AK," while someone who'se
never been in any military but who does have an interest in firearms might
very well be able to tell that it's a Pakistani copy of the AK-97 called
the Model 37, and that the two can be told apart by the absense of finger
grooves in the handguard, for example.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vliegen met die hap!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 130 Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>In message <01BC0196.6B6785C0@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
>Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>>Paul J. Adam[SMTP:shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK] wrote:
>>>And the Glock 18 equates pretty nicely to the Ruger Thunderbolt (having
>>>fired the 17, 19 and 21)
>>
>>See, I class HP's as .357 Mag and up, leaving the 9mm in the LP and SMG
guns.
>>OTOH, I changed the damage of HP's and LP's.
>
>Now here we differ. My wife is by no means feeble or weak, yet she has
>real trouble firing my .45 and really doesn't like .357s.
>
>SR doesn't put minimum Body on heavy pistols.
>
>You see the problem? If someone with Strength 1 and Body 1 can fire a
>heavy pistol without penalty, I really doubt that they're Desert Eagle-
>class weapons. When I fired a .44 Desert Eagle, I thoroughly enjoyed it,
>but it's not a weapon I'd want to rely on to save my life, and I'm 6' 2"
>and 180lb: I find it a real handful.

They don't put Dob or Str requirements on *any* weapon, and having handled
some shotguns, some of them definitely aren't easily handled by anyone with
below average Str or Bod scores.

I can understand your point that someone with "aveage" abilities cannot
easily use a heavy pistol.

I chose the calibers I did partially because I *did* change the damage
codes for the various weapons, making the choice between a Light Pistol and
a Heavy pistol more than the "obvious" one it is now. Thus, one of the
things I tell players who are shopping for weapons it that the Heavy
Pistols are *large,* and unwieldy. As all of the people who carry HPs on a
regular basis in my game have high (either enhanced or natural) strength
and bod, it hasn't come up as a problem. (Exception, the mage who carries a
Ruger Warhawk, but he uses it primarily as the Combat spell focus it also
is.)

From a Gateway 2000 manual:
Sucking all the chips off your system board with an industrial strength
wet/dry vac is not covered by your warranty
mailto:jhurley1@************.edu

Message no. 131 On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:53:31 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
I wrote:
* > Congratulations!! You've discovered the other limitation to this weapon!!
* > In order to load the weapon, you need specially made gloves and forearm
* > guards made with kevlar and monofilament line bonded together. These are
* > available (at additional cost) from the manufacturer.
*
* Wouldn't they simply package the monofilament net in a container, so that
* when you want to load the weapon, you clip the container into the netgun
* and be done with it?

Oh sure, bring reality into a roleplaying game. heh. This weapon is
a GM tool. It's a *really* expensive weapon that is more or less
worthless, but it seems pretty cool at first glance. Imagine the net
gun used by the predator in 'Predator II'. Especially to munchies who
just *happen* to get a glance at the damage code before buying. ;)
(10D each round, use 1/2 impact) I once saw someone blow over Y100,000
on this weapon (stockpiling ammo among other things) and never get a
chance to use it. What fun!!

\__________/
/\________/\ ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
/ /\______/\ \ It is said that money cannot buy one happiness.
/ / /\____/\ \ \ This is true.
/ / / /\ /\ \ \ \ However, it is also said that money is power,
__/_/_/_/__\/__\_\_\_\____ and power is the ability to make the lives of
\ \ \ \ /\ / / / / | others as miserable as your own.
\ \ \ \/__\/ / / / | -=Have a nice day!=-
\ \ \/____\/ / / | ,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.,*~`~*,.
\ \/______\/ / |
\/________\/ | ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
/ \ * whew !!!

Message no. 132 ZOMBIE wrote,
>Oh sure, bring reality into a roleplaying game. heh. This weapon is
>a GM tool. It's a *really* expensive weapon that is more or less
>worthless, but it seems pretty cool at first glance. Imagine the net
>gun used by the predator in 'Predator II'. Especially to munchies who
>just *happen* to get a glance at the damage code before buying. ;)
>(10D each round, use 1/2 impact) I once saw someone blow over Y100,000
>on this weapon (stockpiling ammo among other things) and never get a
>chance to use it. What fun!!

Evil man, evil. I might use one in my game to torture the PC's for
having one too. Then Again I'm starting a new campaign with new players
to Shadowrun that are great roleplayers first (my last group tended to be
power hungry first, they were just good in roleplaying their trait).
They might not fall for such things as damage levels, but I could descibe
it as really cewl looking maybe I could sucker one of them. <GRIN>

- MC23, thinking he'll say it for a rainy day -

Message no. 133 On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:47:37 +0100, Gurth wrote:

>the reason modern tank guns don't use them anymore is because they fire
>APFSDS ammo, whose sabots c/would end up getting caught by the muzzle
whose ^^^^^^^^ what???
>brake.

-- Arno

Message no. 134 At 12:53 PM 1/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU said on 0:22/14 Jan 97...
>
>> Congratulations!! You've discovered the other limitation to this weapon!!
>> In order to load the weapon, you need specially made gloves and forearm
>> guards made with kevlar and monofilament line bonded together. These are
>> available (at additional cost) from the manufacturer.
>
>Wouldn't they simply package the monofilament net in a container, so that
>when you want to load the weapon, you clip the container into the netgun
>and be done with it?
>
I qwould assume this is how the ammo for the Mono net gun would come... If
such a weapon existed in my world... I'm very leery of allowing my
characters access to anything as dangerous as Monofiliment ANYTHING...

But this is mostly becuse I cannot see a character getting ht with
something like a monowhip and NOT losing a body part...

Bull
--
Bull-the-I'm-now-cuddley-because-Dvixen-said-so-ork-decker-turned-GM

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I dare you to use that .sig file for a week!"
-Dvixen, after seeing my new .sig

Message no. 135 At 18:56 1/14/97 -0500, Bull wrote:
>At 12:53 PM 1/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU said on 0:22/14 Jan 97...

>>> Congratulations!! You've discovered the other limitation to this weapon!!
>>> In order to load the weapon, you need specially made gloves and forearm
>>> guards made with kevlar and monofilament line bonded together. These are
>>> available (at additional cost) from the manufacturer.

>But this is mostly becuse I cannot see a character getting ht with
>something like a monowhip and NOT losing a body part...

Well, this is why you make clothes with hideously expensive laminated
monofilament-weave cloth, so you can handle monofilament safely and can
shrug off attacks by the stuff. (A monofilament garrotte will still
be trouble, but you should be fine against a whip.) Last time I did
the calculation, monofilament weave cloth came out around 20,000 nuyen
per yard of cloth (off a standard-sized bolt), and your average jacket
or pants is probably about two yards of fabric (25% more for an Ork,
100% more for a Troll, 15% less for a Dwarf). Another delightful nuyen
sink for the runners...

--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%

Message no. 136 On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:49 -0800 Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>
>Well, this is why you make clothes with hideously expensive laminated
>monofilament-weave cloth, so you can handle monofilament safely and
>can
>shrug off attacks by the stuff. (A monofilament garrotte will still
>be trouble, but you should be fine against a whip.) Last time I did
>the calculation, monofilament weave cloth came out around 20,000 nuyen
>per yard of cloth (off a standard-sized bolt), and your average jacket
>or pants is probably about two yards of fabric (25% more for an Ork,
>100% more for a Troll, 15% less for a Dwarf). Another delightful
>nuyen
>sink for the runners...

Would that provide big bonuses to ballistic and/or Impact armor by
reducing the size of the weave, making it harder to penetrate the jacket
(assuming it's made appropriately:)?

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 137 At 19:22 1/14/97 EST, L Canthros wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:49 -0800 Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM> writes:
>>Well, this is why you make clothes with hideously expensive laminated
>>monofilament-weave cloth, so you can handle monofilament safely and can
>>shrug off attacks by the stuff.
>> Last time I did
>>the calculation, monofilament weave cloth came out around 20,000 nuyen
>>per yard of cloth (off a standard-sized bolt)

>Would that provide big bonuses to ballistic and/or Impact armor by
>reducing the size of the weave, making it harder to penetrate the jacket
>(assuming it's made appropriately:)?

I wouldn't expect monofilament weave to do anything about dissipating the
kinetic energy of an attack; this is very fine cloth, not something tough
like kevlar. I would expect it to tranmit impact just fine, and I suspect
it would happily wrap itself around blades and bullets-- blunting sharp
edges just a bit. The major advantage (after making monofilament attacks
a little more like attacking you with a piece of string instead of something
that can easily lop your head off) would be that monofilament cloth would
wrap around things penetrating your skin, like bullets and arrows, and make
it much easier to remove them. (If memory serves, this was a big advantage
that Mongol horsemen had with their silk shirts.)

--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%

Message no. 138 On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:30:29 -0800 Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>I wouldn't expect monofilament weave to do anything about dissipating
>the
>kinetic energy of an attack; this is very fine cloth, not something
>tough
>like kevlar. I would expect it to tranmit impact just fine, and I
>suspect
>it would happily wrap itself around blades and bullets-- blunting
>sharp
>edges just a bit. The major advantage (after making monofilament
>attacks
>a little more like attacking you with a piece of string instead of
>something
>that can easily lop your head off) would be that monofilament cloth
>would
>wrap around things penetrating your skin, like bullets and arrows, and
>make
>it much easier to remove them. (If memory serves, this was a big
>advantage
>that Mongol horsemen had with their silk shirts.)

Actually I was assuming that the monofil clothing/armor would be
thicker/heavier than normal. 6-10 layers (assuming that this stuff is
going to be pretty thin as is) at least. Also, how strong is
monofilament? It's gotta be fairly strong, IMO, to be used as a whip. The
wire would, of course, be even stronger, but hardly suitable for use as
thread:)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 139 On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, L Canthros wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:30:29 -0800 Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM> writes:
> <snip>
> >I wouldn't expect monofilament weave to do anything about dissipating
> >the
> >kinetic energy of an attack; this is very fine cloth, not something
> >tough
> >like kevlar. I would expect it to tranmit impact just fine, and I
> >suspect
> >it would happily wrap itself around blades and bullets-- blunting
> >sharp
> >edges just a bit. The major advantage (after making monofilament
> >attacks
> >a little more like attacking you with a piece of string instead of
> >something
> >that can easily lop your head off) would be that monofilament cloth
> >would
> >wrap around things penetrating your skin, like bullets and arrows, and
> >make
> >it much easier to remove them. (If memory serves, this was a big
> >advantage
> >that Mongol horsemen had with their silk shirts.)
>
> Actually I was assuming that the monofil clothing/armor would be
> thicker/heavier than normal. 6-10 layers (assuming that this stuff is
> going to be pretty thin as is) at least. Also, how strong is
> monofilament? It's gotta be fairly strong, IMO, to be used as a whip. The
> wire would, of course, be even stronger, but hardly suitable for use as
> thread:)
>
I'm not sure where I heard this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that
monofil is a single molecular chain and can't be cut or broken except with a
laser. I'm not too sure about how stretchy it is, either, so I doubt it would
make very suitable clothing which has to stretch in order to keep from
prohibiting movement. Maybe if you just made a monofilament _vest_ it would
be more practical, but it would be leaving your arms free.

-Q

> Canthros
> --
> If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
> let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
> --Roman proverb
> http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
>

---------------------------------------
You think _I'm_ anal? Wait'll Public Safety gets here.

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer

Message no. 140 On 13 Jan 97 at 17:25, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
[snip]
> >For that
> >matter it is likely that other Shadowrun Gamers would also be
> >interested [FASAMike you are correct this is a completely unsubtle
> >hint :-) ] enough to purchase a sourcebook containing this
> >information.
>
> There are no plans to publish this book in English. Sorry.
No need to, either. Bunch of Munchkin-Weapons (Better, Louder,
Deadlier, Cheaper) and badly described stuff. After reading the
"Deutschland in den Schatten" (Germany Sourcebook) I can understand why
FASA doesn't want to make other "place sourcebooks". *sigh*

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

Message no. 141 > From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> Well, this is why you make clothes with hideously expensive laminated
> monofilament-weave cloth, so you can handle monofilament safely and can
> shrug off attacks by the stuff. (A monofilament garrotte will still

And...it also splits bullets when worn as armor. We'll even throw in
a box of Grid Squares[TM] and a lifetime supply of Chemlight
Batteries if you order by midnight tonight. <BG>

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 142 > From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Organization: Plastic Warriors
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> That is what I was aiming at... You handle your own weapons, possibly
> those of friendly armies, and you learn something about the weapons of
> posible enemies. But have you learned about Anschutz target rifles in the
> US Army? WWI/WWII bolt action rifles? Panzerfausts? I know this may get

I've actually fired almost all of the man portable weapons used by NATO
forces, as well as the majority of warsaw pact weapons to include
anti tank weapons of both sides. It's been five years, but I
remember most of it.

> obscure, but what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of weapons out
> there that are not normally encountered by an army, and so people with a
> background in that army won't necessarily know much about them.

I agree completely. That is why I disagreed with using military
theory, tactics, etc as a skill to id weapons.

> Not by broad background, but you can judge it by the character's other
> interests. If he's been in the UCAS Army and his only hobby is cooking,
> he'll likely be able to identify a weapon as "an AK," while someone who'se
> never been in any military but who does have an interest in firearms might
> very well be able to tell that it's a Pakistani copy of the AK-97 called
> the Model 37, and that the two can be told apart by the absense of finger
> grooves in the handguard, for example.

And they could both have the same firearms skill. That's the beauty
here. More than likely, the guy with a serious interest in firearms
also has a better B/R skill. Which gets back to my original point of
using the appropriate B/R skill to test.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 143 Droopy said on 19:20/15 Jan 97...

> I agree completely. That is why I disagreed with using military
> theory, tactics, etc as a skill to id weapons.
[snip]
> And they could both have the same firearms skill. That's the beauty
> here.

IMHO a special skill for ID-ing weapons works best, called something like
Weapon Trivia for example. Failing that, a Perception roll with a TN
determined by the GM based on his/her assessment of how much the
character knows.

> More than likely, the guy with a serious interest in firearms also has
> a better B/R skill. Which gets back to my original point of using the
> appropriate B/R skill to test.

I'm not sure... I consider myself to have quite some knowledge about
firearms, despite never having fired anything more than 4.5 mm air
rifles; the only firearms I've ever seen up close are .22LR rifles, and
I've never handled one. I do believe I can field-strip an M16 or AK
without much searching for catches and things, because I've read a lot
about them -- but does that mean I have a high Firearms B/R skill level?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I feel better, having screamed on you.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 144 On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Droopy wrote:

> > Well, this is why you make clothes with hideously expensive laminated
> > monofilament-weave cloth, so you can handle monofilament safely and can
> > shrug off attacks by the stuff. (A monofilament garrotte will still
>
> And...it also splits bullets when worn as armor. We'll even throw in
> a box of Grid Squares[TM] and a lifetime supply of Chemlight
> Batteries if you order by midnight tonight. <BG>
>

Of course, the muchkins are included FREE...

<<<Robert Siemborski, System Administratior, Silicon Super Network>>>
http://www.ssnlink.net

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----
Version: 3.1
GCS/IT/CM d- s+:- a--- C++++>$ UI++>++++ UA++ UL>+ UB+$>++++ UV$>++++
P+$>+++$ L+ E---- W+++ N+ o K- w+(++++)>+++++$ O-(+) M--(+)>! Y PGP
t+ 5+++>++++ !X R++>+++ tv(+) b++(+++) DI+ D++(+++) G e- h+>++ r y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Message no. 145 On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:46:08 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Max Rible said on 10:30/15 Jan 97...
>
>> I figure that since monofilament is much thinner than ordinary
>thread,
>> weaving monofilament thread into cloth yields extremely thin cloth
>> with a very high thread count per square inch. (This is why it's so
>> bloody expensive: all that monofilament, and weaving it...)
>
>How would you keep it from cutting through your weaving machines?

Use dense ceramics as parts for the machine:)

>> Making clothing/armor out of strong materials may protect the
>clothing,
>> but I don't see it protecting the wearer. For that, you want
>something
>> that's capable of spreading out impact over more of your body so you
>> don't get all the damage in one place, or dissipating kinetic energy
>so
>> less of the impact reaches you. Monofilament cloth doesn't seem to
>have
>> either of these properties.
>
>Perhaps it cuts the bullet up into little slivers that get stopped
>more
>easily...?
>
Probably Yes and No...It would stop the bullet (slug is cut up into
little bitty pieces only a bit larger than a few atoms across, the
friction caused by rubbing up against the bucky tubes-if you sue that
explanation-should stop the slivers, especially if you layer your
mono-armor), but the millions of tiny slivers, now not much larger than a
few atoms, would be easily absorbed through the skin, if they manage to
penetrate the armor, and will almost never come back out of the fabric.
Maybe it would work better if you put three to four layers (mono-cloth
wouldn't be very thick or heavy, I wouldn't think, but would probably be
very nearly transparent) over ceramic plates, for hard armor.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 146 Wrote Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>:

> After reading the
> "Deutschland in den Schatten" (Germany Sourcebook) I can understand why
> FASA doesn't want to make other "place sourcebooks". *sigh*

Ah, come on, it wasn't that bad. I really laughed when I got to read
about the "Trollkoenigreich Schwarzwald"! Or the Yugoslavian orks in
lederhosen! :)

:)
BulletShower
______________________________________________________________________
"Gott wuerfelt nicht" (A. Einstein)
For More information on diceless roleplaying and own Shadowrun stuff,
jack into http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~nmatausc

Message no. 147 > From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Organization: Plastic Warriors
> Subject: Re: Questions about stuff

> I'm not sure... I consider myself to have quite some knowledge about
> firearms, despite never having fired anything more than 4.5 mm air
> rifles; the only firearms I've ever seen up close are .22LR rifles, and
> I've never handled one. I do believe I can field-strip an M16 or AK
> without much searching for catches and things, because I've read a lot
> about them -- but does that mean I have a high Firearms B/R skill level?

In your case, it would be a knowledge skill (perhaps a concentration
of firearms B/R.) In fact, that sounds like just the ticket.

--Droopy
droopy@**.net

Message no. 148 On 20 Jan 97 at 14:07, BulletShower wrote:
> > After reading the
> > "Deutschland in den Schatten" (Germany Sourcebook) I can understand
why
> > FASA doesn't want to make other "place sourcebooks". *sigh*
> Ah, come on, it wasn't that bad. I really laughed when I got to read
> about the "Trollkoenigreich Schwarzwald"! Or the Yugoslavian orks in
> lederhosen! :)
Ah, the place descriptions were acceptable, but the whole rules and
equipment stuff was "if we make them stronger, cheaper, and with more
ammo, everyone will use our equipment"-munchkin stuff I stopped using
and creating about ten years ago (while playing DSA, for that matter
:-) (Sorry to all non-German readers, DSA is a German RPG considered
as "children's RPG by many (not by me)).

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer