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Message no. 1
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:00:21 -0500
Hmmm, the list has been moderately busy this weekend. Time for a little
catch-up. Forgive me for snipping most of the original discussion of the
threads in order to save space and time. So. in not particular order:

MY WEB-PAGE:
Nothing up yet, it's a project I work on it fits and starts when I have time.
Right now, it's looking like I'm not going to have a lot of time for the next
few months : )

KILLING HANDS:
Do work in astral combat. Use Unarmed Combat or Sorcery to hit and normal KH
damage. Yes, physads can kick ass in astral combat against opponents they can
reach.

DUAL-BEINGS:
IMHO, astrally perceiving characters DO function as dual-beings; they use
their normal Physical Attributes on the astral while perceiving (SR2 or G2, I
forget which, does state that physical Reaction is used). As folks have
pointed out, astral forms have the advantage of Fast Movement and the ability
to pass through material barriers, while the dual-folks don't.

ASTRAL BARRIERS:
Are opaque on the astral, IMHO. Hopefully to be clarified in the Big Book o'
Magic.

RATING LIMITS:
I'm not quite sure about the concern on rating limits for things like
medicine lodges. Do people have trouble with such things being abused in
their games? After all, a powerful lodge or hermetic library is only a tool;
it doesn't enhance the abilities of its owner, it just permits more powerful
(and Draining) rituals to be performed. I'd be interested in hearing why some
folks feel a limit (apart from cost) is needed.

MANIPULATION SPELLS:
ARE affected by spell defense and shielding, IMHO. I also use the house rule
that you can either Dodge (use Combat Pool) or provide Spell Defense (use
Magic Pool) but not both.

And now back to work...

Take care,
Steve K.
Message no. 2
From: "Graves, Durand E. (Temporary at ALCOA)" <Durand.Graves@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:06:40 -0500
on 1-11 Steve Kenson wrote

<snip>

>DUAL-BEINGS:
>IMHO, astrally perceiving characters DO function as dual-beings; they use
>their normal Physical Attributes on the astral while perceiving (SR2 or G2, I
>forget which, does state that physical Reaction is used). As folks have
>pointed out, astral forms have the advantage of Fast Movement and the ability
>to pass through material barriers, while the dual-folks don't.

<snip>

He's right

SR2 p. 148

-DEG.
Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:00:39 EST
In a message dated 98-01-12 13:01:46 EST, TalonMail@***.com writes:

> RATING LIMITS:
> I'm not quite sure about the concern on rating limits for things like
> medicine lodges. Do people have trouble with such things being abused in
> their games? After all, a powerful lodge or hermetic library is only a
tool;
> it doesn't enhance the abilities of its owner, it just permits more
powerful
> (and Draining) rituals to be performed. I'd be interested in hearing why
> some
> folks feel a limit (apart from cost) is needed.

I think I understand the "more than a tool" outlook here. Libraries and
Lodges that are higher than the user's skill at something, given extra dice
towards researching and/or spell design. Lodge's also, I think, this may be a
house rule that's simply been around for more than a few years, give bonus
dice for Rituals that they are more powerful for (but again, increase the
sending/symmetry times). Lodges and Active Hermetic Circles are wards of
rating equal to their own, which is downright awesome in many cases. I also
remember something similar for Hermetic Circles conjuring a specific
elemental. Something that has also been brought up here is using a Hermetic
Circle of an "opposing alignment" to augment the ability to banish a given
elemental (say standing in a Water Circle to banish a Fire Elemental).

Also, a thing we've discovered here under the "common sense" category is that
a Medicine Lodge has a background count (usually not more than a single point,
unless on a given power site or ley line) that is "in-favor" of the shaman's
magical usage (which is again, AWESOME).


We have (advanced and/or house) rules for Medicine Lodges and Circles
concerning setup time, size, and beneficial side-effects.

> MANIPULATION SPELLS:
> ARE affected by spell defense and shielding, IMHO. I also use the house
rule
> that you can either Dodge (use Combat Pool) or provide Spell Defense (use
> Magic Pool) but not both.

We allow for Dodge (Combat) Pool to dodge a given physical manipulation (or at
least a visible one) with the standard rules for dodging (usually a target 4)
and then resisting the spell being based upon the force of the spell being the
target number. Spell Defense we actually allow in either direction...dodging
from the point of view of attempting to shape the surrounding mana/energies
around the target and/or bolstering the direct resistance against the spell if
it connects. Of course, the dice have to be determined as "Dodge" or
"Resist"
initially...

>
> And now back to work...

This is work for you? Gosh....
-K
Message no. 4
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:07:43 +0000
On 12 Jan 98, Steve Kenson disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

<snip>
> RATING LIMITS:
> I'm not quite sure about the concern on rating limits for things
> like medicine lodges. Do people have trouble with such things being
> abused in their games? After all, a powerful lodge or hermetic
> library is only a tool; it doesn't enhance the abilities of its
> owner, it just permits more powerful (and Draining) rituals to be
> performed. I'd be interested in hearing why some folks feel a limit
> (apart from cost) is needed.

A rating 24 Medicine Lodge adds helluva dice to the shaman's spell
design test (the same goes for the library, IIRC), for the small
price of doubling the time... If you get more than two successes from
the additional dice, you come out in plus, since you divide the time
by the number of successes...

For a magician with Magical Theory 6, a Rating 12 medicine
lodge/library adds 3 dice, and a Rating 24 one adds 9 dice...

> MANIPULATION SPELLS:
> ARE affected by spell defense and shielding, IMHO. I also use the
> house rule that you can either Dodge (use Combat Pool) or provide
> Spell Defense (use Magic Pool) but not both.

Well, I'd have to disagree on that one... Still, you're the boss. I
have my house rules anyway...

The problem with manipulation spells is that they "energize" the
caster, who then ejects the stuff at the target.. So, Spell Defense
allocated to the target shouldn't help, BUT a case could be made for
allocating the dice to hinder the spellcaster - that is, if he is in
the spell-defending mage's LOS, he can be the target of "Spell
Disruption".
Oh, and shielding is not as useful against manipulation spells
anyway, since they do not use the attribute as the TN, they use a
fixed number...

Hmmm... I think I'll allow "Spell disruption" of any spell, by
assigning spell defense dice to the caster... That would even work
against AOE illusion spells, detection spells (that pesky combat
sense), healing spells and a whole slew of other stuff...
Cool idea. Well, thanks for the inspiration. ;>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/HSP
It's been Monday aaaaaaaaallllllll week!
Message no. 5
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:51:40 -0500
At 11:07 PM 1/12/98 +0000, you wrote:

>A rating 24 Medicine Lodge adds helluva dice to the shaman's spell
>design test (the same goes for the library, IIRC), for the small
>price of doubling the time... If you get more than two successes from
>the additional dice, you come out in plus, since you divide the time
>by the number of successes...

>For a magician with Magical Theory 6, a Rating 12 medicine
>lodge/library adds 3 dice, and a Rating 24 one adds 9 dice...

Where did you get the idea that it adds dice? It has to have a rating at
least equal to the force of the spell to be learned, that's it. Goes for
both Hermetic library and medicine lodge.

>The problem with manipulation spells is that they "energize" the
>caster, who then ejects the stuff at the target.. So, Spell Defense
>allocated to the target shouldn't help, BUT a case could be made for
>allocating the dice to hinder the spellcaster - that is, if he is in
>the spell-defending mage's LOS, he can be the target of "Spell
>Disruption".

Well, what if those energies are still magical? If so, then a magical
defense should still help against it, even if those energies are coming
from the 'now-energized' caster. You could rule that Death Touch energizes
the caster, but it can still be resisted with Magic Pool.

>Oh, and shielding is not as useful against manipulation spells
>anyway, since they do not use the attribute as the TN, they use a
>fixed number...

True.


losthalo@********.comGoFa6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoB4/19.2Bk!cBkc8MBV6sM3ZG
oPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4bSSH173g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************
4h7sM8zSsYnk6BSMmpFNN0393NRfmSLusOH1Whileyouarelisteningyourwillingat
tentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome
Message no. 6
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:04:44 +0000
On 12 Jan 98, losthalo disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

<snip>
> >For a magician with Magical Theory 6, a Rating 12 medicine
> >lodge/library adds 3 dice, and a Rating 24 one adds 9 dice...
>
> Where did you get the idea that it adds dice? It has to have a
> rating at least equal to the force of the spell to be learned,
> that's it. Goes for both Hermetic library and medicine lodge.

I'm not talking abou LEARNING spells, I'm talking about DESIGNING
spells... It's in Grimmy, in the Spell Design section...

<snip>

> Well, what if those energies are still magical? If so, then a
> magical defense should still help against it, even if those energies
> are coming from the 'now-energized' caster. You could rule that
> Death Touch energizes the caster, but it can still be resisted with
> Magic Pool.

Well, I don't really buy the whole "magical fire" vs "nonmagical
fire"... Fire is fire. It may be created magically, but it's not
A*&*... Fire frome the Flamethrower spell is a bit hard IMO to defend
against with a spell defense, better just get the hell out of
Dodge.

Of course' that's just me...

<snip>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/HSP
Two's company, three's a deformity.
Message no. 7
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:52:56 +0100
>MY WEB-PAGE:
>Nothing up yet, it's a project I work on it fits and starts when I have time.
>Right now, it's looking like I'm not going to have a lot of time for the next
>few months : )

Cool! I'll visit it when it's ready. :)

>ASTRAL BARRIERS:
>Are opaque on the astral, IMHO. Hopefully to be clarified in the Big Book o'
>Magic.

My opinion too.

>RATING LIMITS:
>I'm not quite sure about the concern on rating limits for things like
>medicine lodges. Do people have trouble with such things being abused in
>their games? After all, a powerful lodge or hermetic library is only a tool;
>it doesn't enhance the abilities of its owner, it just permits more powerful
>(and Draining) rituals to be performed. I'd be interested in hearing why some
>folks feel a limit (apart from cost) is needed.

If I remember well, those ratings are used mainly to design new spells.
They add dices to your test.
I changed availability a bit by giving availabilities equal to the force of
the materials. A rating 6 medicine lodge would have an availability of 6
insteed of 3. For hermetic libraries, they cost a big price and so are not
really a problem.
As a general rule, I usually give a maximum rating of 12 to almost
anything. Above this number, things get pretty difficult to find and are
almost uniques. Thus, a rating 12 medicine lodge would require at least one
game session to find. And it will quite difficult. This gives some
indications to the players when they face something above them. For
exemple, when the PCs did find a hermetic library at level 12 in a base,
they were fascinated and/or scared by what they found.
I think the most disturbing ratings are those of the foci (especially those
you enchant yourself) and the fetish foci.
In my games, the maximum rating a mage can enchant (for a focus, not for
ritual materials and the like) is equal to half his level in enchanting.
Thus, level 6 foci are pretty rares. When unique enchantments are performed
(I allowed one of my players to do this, but it took him almost 2 years of
game play, with 1 big session per week), this rule can be bend.
For fetish foci, I first didn't allow the use of it to cast spells in a
spell lock. Then I gave an availability equal to the rating.

>MANIPULATION SPELLS:
>ARE affected by spell defense and shielding, IMHO. I also use the house rule
>that you can either Dodge (use Combat Pool) or provide Spell Defense (use
>Magic Pool) but not both.

Hek! We used to think (with other GMs) that manipulation spells were
interesting because they were the solution against initiates. However,
spell defense does work fine as do the dices provided by shielding. The
only thing they don't get is the increase of target number.
I changed the shielding ability a bit too. Shielding gives bonus defense
dices equal to its level and only these dices increase the target number.
Other dices kept for defense don't increase the TN. Also, when an initiate
attacks another initiate, it reduces the effect of shielding by the
difference between the grades. For exemple, a rank 3 initiate attacking a
rank 5 initiate would only have +2 to TN. So, if your rank is higher than
your opponent, you have no modifier to TN (you don't get a bonus! :).

>Take care,
>Steve K.

Thanks. You too. :)


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 8
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Questions & Answers
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:56:31 -0005
On 13 Jan 98 at 0:04, Leszek Karlik aka Mike wrote:


> Well, I don't really buy the whole "magical fire" vs "nonmagical
> fire"... Fire is fire. It may be created magically, but it's not
> A*&*... Fire frome the Flamethrower spell is a bit hard IMO to defend
> against with a spell defense, better just get the hell out of Dodge.
>
> Of course' that's just me...
>
You're half right I think. The fire itself isn't magical. But ask this,
what's sustaining that fire? Fire has to have fuel to burn, no matter how
briefly it exists. What's fueling the fire. The only answer that
presents itself is, magic. Spell defense may not stop the flames
themselves, but it can stop / disrupt the magic that fuels the flames.
Without fuel, no flames.

--

Ashlocke

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R

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