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Message no. 1
From: bye_boris@*******.com (boris soban)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:23:16 +0000
Hello,

I've got some questions my players asked me and I couldn't answer...

First:
A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol is turned on
semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3
seconds? And we do not speak of the guy with a full auto assault rifle who
would fire something like 45 rounds in the same time... Me not being a
weapon specialist I couldn't answer... Can anyone help me?

Second:
Should DNI interface be connected to a router? (I don't think so, but it
doesn't hurt to ask)
Could it be connected to a router?
I think that DNI are just connected to the neural network of the spine. If
it's correct, the person should learn some kind of body command to activate
it, is that right?

Third: (this one is mine)
I think that most of the essence cost of the cranial cyberware is due to
neurone/machine interface. Is ithat right? If so, could a connection to
router make the cost lower(?) since the cyberware is connected to the
router, controlled via it and the router as only one interface to the brain.

Fourth: (mine too)
I assume that one can manage the transfert and treatment of information
between datajack, router and all the little thingy attached to that
(datacompactor, knowsoft link, cyber memory, eyedisplay, camcorder, sound
filter, radio, scanner,....) with dedicated mental impulse one had to learn
to use the cyberware with efficiency, idem for DNI controlled cyberware.
First, Is it correct?
Second, if it's correct, how do we reflect it in game term (adapation time)?
Is this point viewed in any rule book? Anyway, I thought of a learning time
directly proportional to the essence cost of the cyberware, something like a
day training (8 hours) for every full 1/10 of the essence cost of the
standard cyberware... But isn't it too much?
Third, Assuming the character suffer from amnesia, will it affect is ability
to use this cyberware? and from what level of amnesia should it affect his
ability?

Thank you all,

Boris

_________________________________________________________________
Trouvez l'âme soeur sur MSN Rencontres ! http://g.msn.fr/FR1000/9551
Message no. 2
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:37:28 +1100 (EST)
--- boris soban <bye_boris@*******.com> wrote: >
Hello,
>
> I've got some questions my players asked me and I
> couldn't answer...
>
> First:
> A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then
> acts 4 times, can
> theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if
> his pistol is turned on
> semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8
> rounds in SA in 3
> seconds? And we do not speak of the guy with a full
> auto assault rifle who
> would fire something like 45 rounds in the same
> time... Me not being a
> weapon specialist I couldn't answer... Can anyone
> help me?

Well Boris, IIRC the cyclic rate of most weapons In
the shadowrun setting are extremely low compared to
todays/reality veiw. The reason why was explained as
You wouldn't have much of a chance In gameplay
otherwise. You could easily run out of a 42 clip
magazine in under a second & a half on FA (todays
standard is no way superhuman, compared to someone
jacked up firing 45 In 3 sec, but as I said In
fairness of the game), but the reason people don't Is
because of fire discipline.
As for 8 rounds SA from a pistol, just make a
character modify the gun as this does seem unrealistic
In todays standards, I dont think It would cope
without modification. Just a opinion ask a expert or
someone who knows more about the topic than heresay :)

GZ

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
Message no. 3
From: ceadawg2@***.net (Russ Myrick)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:25:59 -0600
--- boris soban <bye_boris@*******.com> wrote: >
Hello,
>
> I've got some questions my players asked me and I
> couldn't answer...
>
> First:
> A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol is
> turned on semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA
in 3 seconds? And we do not speak of the guy with a
> full auto assault rifle who would fire something like 45 rounds in the
same time... Me not being a weapon specialist I
> couldn't answer... Can anyone help me?

Currently, the World Speed Fire Record, 8 rounds in 1 second, is held by a
Ruger Warhawk. This is a double action revolver. However, the shootist ( I
don't remember his name, it was on the History Channel the other night) is a
professional trick shooter, and even with that status was only able to put 2
rounds on the target paper at 6m. The target appeared to be a standard 50m
range target with a 2cm bullseye and a 20cm black ring. When I was playing
around in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club, we were expected to place 2 rounds on
target in each of 5 targets, at variable ranges from 1m to 20m, in a 10
second window of time. The guys I worked with that did well enough to be
designated for hostage entry were able to much better than that. None of
these guys are cybered. One thing to remember, even though a magazine/clip
fed weapon is rated for X number of rounds + 1 up the spout, the follower
spring in that clip or mag does not reach full strength until it has reached
50% extention Which means that a fully loaded clip is slow to feed for the
1st few rounds fired and is more likely to cause a miss feed in the weapon.
Therefore, most pros I know (cops not included) run 5rds short in their
clips (M16, 20rd mag ...load 15; Beretta 15rd mag ...load 10; etc.). Those
that are rated for fewer than 15 rounds should only be shorted 3 rounds.
Another point, magazines whose springs are frequently fully compressed, or
stored loaded, tend to have spring breakages more often. Spring breakages
during rapid SA fire or FA fire may result in an exploding magazine. The
limitation on speed is primarily due to the shooter and his/her ability to
place rounds on target. The maximum firing rate for SA weapons is
determined by using a motor driven device to "pull" the trigger and clocking
the time to empty a fully loaded magazine/clip. 100s of these are done to
obtain an average, which is then used to calculate the rounds per minute for
that weapon. This meathod does not take into account reloading the weapon
or overheating of the weapon's components. Most experts aggree that the
realistic firing rate for someone using that weapon in combat is around 40%
of the tested rpm.

Hopefully this will help.
Message no. 4
From: shiva@*********.net (Shiva Khan)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:39:11 -0700
> First:
> A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
> theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol
> is turned on
> semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3
> seconds? And we do not speak of the guy with a full auto
> assault rifle who
> would fire something like 45 rounds in the same time... Me
> not being a
> weapon specialist I couldn't answer... Can anyone help me?
>

>From my experience (shooting mostly 9mm, 40SW, and 45ACP) I can empty a 10
round magizine in 3 seconds or a little more. The catch is only the first
round is going to hit the target, the rest fly off high and to one side or
the other. Oh yea that is usually shooting a lighter recoil caliber like
9mm. Any thing larger then 9mm and I can't even keep close to the target
after the first shot durning rapid fire. I guess that is why I don't do it.
Later!

S.K.
Message no. 5
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:06:57 +0100
According to boris soban, on Monday 03 November 2003 01:23 the word on the
street was...

> A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
> theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol is turned
> on semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3
> seconds? And we do not speak of the guy with a full auto assault rifle
> who would fire something like 45 rounds in the same time... Me not being
> a weapon specialist I couldn't answer... Can anyone help me?

As Robert mentioned, weapon ROF is actually fairly low in SR. A typical
modern automatic weapon fires between 600 and 900 rpm; that's 10 to 15
rounds per second, or 30 to 45 per 3-second SR game turn. Since this is
_cyclic_ rate of fire, that means that anyone who can hold down the
trigger can fire that many rounds in that little time; yet in SR, only a
highly-wired street sam (or equivalent) can manage this.

What's going on is that SR tries to model _aimed_ autofire, with the
shooter aiming at the target, firing off some rounds, pausing to aim a bit
more, fire another FA burst, and so on.

As for the semi-auto weapons, this actually works out fairly nicely, as
others have mentioned. These can basically fire as fast as you can pull
the trigger, which for your average person is slower than the speed with
which the weapon will cycle itself after each shot. So if you can work the
trigger faster (like a sam with wired reflexes can) you can also fire off
more rounds in a given amount of time.

> Should DNI interface be connected to a router? (I don't think so, but it
> doesn't hurt to ask)

I don't think anything _must_ be connected to a router, unless you're
running out of connection points.

> Could it be connected to a router?

I would say so, but I haven't looked at the rules for it to come to that
answer :)

> I think that most of the essence cost of the cranial cyberware is due
> to neurone/machine interface. Is ithat right?

Whatever you want, really. AFAIK SR doesn't really explain any of this, so
the "right" explanation is the one you like best (or need for your game,
of course :)

> If so, could a connection
> to router make the cost lower(?) since the cyberware is connected to the
> router, controlled via it and the router as only one interface to the
> brain.

IMHO Essence cost is only reduced by putting a piece of cyberware inside
another one (or by using alpha or higher grade 'ware, of course) -- for
example, placing low-light vision inside cybereyes.

> I assume that one can manage the transfert and treatment of information
> between datajack, router and all the little thingy attached to that
> (datacompactor, knowsoft link, cyber memory, eyedisplay, camcorder,
> sound filter, radio, scanner,....) with dedicated mental impulse one had
> to learn to use the cyberware with efficiency, idem for DNI controlled
> cyberware. First, Is it correct?

I'd say you have to learn how to use your cyberware, sure.

> Second, if it's correct, how do we reflect it in game term (adapation
> time)? Is this point viewed in any rule book?

I'm not sure, but you could always assume that during the time the
character heals from the implant surgery, he or she will also learn how to
use the new cyberware.

> Anyway, I thought of a
> learning time directly proportional to the essence cost of the
> cyberware, something like a day training (8 hours) for every full 1/10
> of the essence cost of the standard cyberware... But isn't it too much?

Let's see, that means that for an Essence 1 cyberarm, you'd have to spend
80 hours (2 full working weeks) learning to use it. That may be a very
short time for RL replacement limbs, but sounds good to me for game
purposes.

> Third, Assuming the character suffer from amnesia, will it affect is
> ability to use this cyberware? and from what level of amnesia should it
> affect his ability?

I guess that depends on whether or not the cyberware works instinctively or
if it has a function the body doesn't normally have. I'd say the character
would be able to use cyberlimbs, eyes, and so on, but not a tactical
computer or retractable razors without having to re-learn the use of them
(once their presence is found out, of course). All this only for the
higher levels of amnesia, possibly even just the highest.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't you know you know what's right?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Message no. 6
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:24:59 -0700
At 05:23 PM 11/2/2003, boris soban wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I've got some questions my players asked me and I couldn't answer...
>
>First:
>A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
>theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol is turned on
>semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3 seconds?

You're playing Shadowrun and you're worried about realism? ;)

Seriously, I look at it from a gaming standpoint. Does it break the game,
and why does it break the game? If everything is working fine, don't fix
it if it isn't broken :) If the cyber-samurai is just to fast, slow him
down (maybe declare that in your game the highest rating of wired reflexes
available are Rating 2). Or, let the player have fun mowing down bad guys
with his character and create adventures that aren't dependant on whether
or not the opposition wins a gun battle. Or, have the PC suffer the
consequences of killing everything in his path. He might end up with a
*very* bad rep.

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 7
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:43:49 -0800
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:24:59 -0700
Graht <davidb@****.imcprint.com> wrote:
> At 05:23 PM 11/2/2003, boris soban wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
[snip]

> > Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3 seconds?
>
> You're playing Shadowrun and you're worried about realism? ;)
>
> Seriously, I look at it from a gaming standpoint....[snip]
> --

I believe one of the posters above mentioned mechanical feed devices. Or,
well, you could rule that the gun only shoots so many bullets in a round, and
Mr Speedy will have to do something else in his 4th action, like go up and
hit the guy on the head with it (at this point the opponent will probably not
be able to do much about that, being out of actions). After all, a reaction
enhanced mage can still only really cook off one spell a round, and has to
find someting else to do with the rest of his time... I have no trouble with
the body outclassing the weapons at hand.
--Anders
Message no. 8
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:08:11 +0100
From: "Anders Swenson" <anders@**********.com>
>
> I believe one of the posters above mentioned mechanical feed devices. Or,
> well, you could rule that the gun only shoots so many bullets in a round,
and
> Mr Speedy will have to do something else in his 4th action, like go up and
> hit the guy on the head with it (at this point the opponent will probably
not
> be able to do much about that, being out of actions). After all, a
reaction
> enhanced mage can still only really cook off one spell a round, and has to
> find someting else to do with the rest of his time... I have no trouble
with
> the body outclassing the weapons at hand.

A mage can cast several spells in a round, in fact they may cast up to his
combined Sorcery/Spellcasting and Spell Pool in a single Complex Action. So
even with an initiative of only 1 a mage may cast several spells.

SR3 page 107: Complex Actions: Cast spell: A magician may cast a spell by
taking a Complex Action. See spellcasting, p. 181.

SR3 page 181: Spellcasting: Preparation: ...Spellcasters may, however, split
their Sorcery and Spell Pool dice among multriple spells...

So the reaction enhanced mage can have a Cast Spell action in each of his
actions. Just like the Gun Bunny can fire his weapon in each of his actions.

Lars
Message no. 9
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:26:18 -0800
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:08:11 +0100
"Lars Wagner Hansen" <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk> wrote:
> From: "Anders Swenson" <anders@**********.com>
> >
> > I believe one of the posters above mentioned mechanical feed devices. Or,
> > well, you could rule that the gun only shoots so many bullets in a round,
> and
> > Mr Speedy will have to do something else in his 4th action, like go up
> and
> > hit the guy on the head with it (at this point the opponent will probably
> not
> > be able to do much about that, being out of actions). After all, a
> reaction
> > enhanced mage can still only really cook off one spell a round, and has
> to
> > find someting else to do with the rest of his time... I have no trouble
> with
> > the body outclassing the weapons at hand.
>
> A mage can cast several spells in a round, in fact they may cast up to his
> combined Sorcery/Spellcasting and Spell Pool in a single Complex Action. So
> even with an initiative of only 1 a mage may cast several spells.
>
> SR3 page 107: Complex Actions: Cast spell: A magician may cast a spell by
> taking a Complex Action. See spellcasting, p. 181.
>
> SR3 page 181: Spellcasting: Preparation: ...Spellcasters may, however,
> split
> their Sorcery and Spell Pool dice among multriple spells...
>
> So the reaction enhanced mage can have a Cast Spell action in each of his
> actions. Just like the Gun Bunny can fire his weapon in each of his
> actions.
>
> Lars
>

Well, I suppose I worded my response poorly. I meant the practical effect
that a prudent mage will run outof magic pool after 1 spell, aftetr using it
to enhance the spell or reduce drain. Of course, a fast mage can cast spells
to burnout in a single round with adequate die rolls for initiative. Sorry to
trip the theoretical aspect in error.

The Gun Bunny will rapidly run out of Combat Pool in a similar manner, of
course, making effective shooting problematic.
--Anders
Message no. 10
From: marc.renouf@******.com (Renouf, Marc A)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:00:58 -0500
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Russ Myrick wrote:

> One thing to remember, even though a magazine/clip
> fed weapon is rated for X number of rounds + 1 up the spout, the follower
> spring in that clip or mag does not reach full strength until it has
reached
> 50% extention Which means that a fully loaded clip is slow to feed for
> the 1st few rounds fired and is more likely to cause a miss feed in the
> weapon.

This is not true. The more you compress a spring, the stronger
it gets. F = kx. The reason you get slow feed or missfeed from a clip
that's fully loaded is because the magazine spring is pushing so hard that
the force of friction holding the bullet in the top of the magazine forces
the return spring to work harder to push the bullet forward.

> Therefore, most pros I know (cops not included) run 5rds short in their
> clips (M16, 20rd mag ...load 15; Beretta 15rd mag ...load 10; etc.).
Those
> that are rated for fewer than 15 rounds should only be shorted 3 rounds.

A lot of it depends on the magazines. I've never had a misfeed
from any of my 15-round Beretta factory originals, but I have a few
knock-off high caps with *really* stiff springs, and these have given me
occasional problems.

> Another point, magazines whose springs are frequently fully compressed, or
> stored loaded, tend to have spring breakages more often.

True, and largely due to fatigue stress. Actually, repeatedly
loading and unloading a mag will put more stress on the spring than
loading it and keeping it under compression for long periods of time, but
your point is a good one.

> Spring breakages during rapid SA fire or FA fire may result in an
> exploding magazine.

What kind of rock are you smoking? What do you mean when you say
"exploding?" The only way a magazine is going to "explode" is if a
piece
of the spring somehow comes in contact with the primer of a loaded round,
and that's *really* unlikely given both a) how the rounds are positioned
in most magazines, and b) the presence and position of the follower.
The sidewalls of most magazines are metal. Sure, if you are using
cheap plastic magazines, the compressed spring may have enough force to
crack or split the plastic. And yes, you'll have a ruined mag, but it
won't pose any kind of "explosion" hazard, especially if it's enclosed in
the magazine well. But with a metal mag, this should *never* happen.
And either way it has nothing to do with how rapidly you're
firing.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
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Adam Jury <adamj@*********.com> Assistant List Administrator
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David Buehrer <graht@******.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 11
From: lists@*******.com (Lester Ward)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:45:49 -0500
On Nov 2, 2003, at 7:23 PM, boris soban wrote:

> Second:
> Should DNI interface be connected to a router? (I don't think so, but
> it doesn't hurt to ask)
> Could it be connected to a router?

You have to read the rules over and over to make sense of them, because
they first seem to say that connections to a router and DNI are
completely separate types of animals, and at other times imply that
they interact.

I believe the main source of confusion is that the main source of
confusion is that the rules do not specifically state something that is
implied by the other rules: any item controlled by a DNI gains all of
the benefits of being connected to a router.

I base this interpretation on the following:

1) "A DNI is a dedicated datajack connection to a specifically modified
piece of equipment" (mm.38).\
2) Item 1 implies that only the datajack is directly connected to the
brain, with the DNI connected to the .datajack. not the brain.
3) Item 1 implies that a DNI cannot be used without a datajack.
4) "Each datajack and router has defined number of ports that different
devices can be plugged into. The standard SR3 datajack has five
integral ports: one providing a direct neural connection to the brain,
one represented by the surface jack into which external devices may be
plugged, and three others that can be used as dedicated connections to
other pieces of cyberware." (mm.46)
5) Item 4 implies that the "datajack connection" mentioned in item 1 is
made to one of these integral ports.
6) Item 4 implies that connections on a datajack and connections on a
router are identical.
7) "Routers do not allow a device to be cybernetically controlled; they
merely allow the device to communicate with or through other implants.
To be cybernetically controlled, the device needs a DNI connection."
(mm.22)
8) "Routers cannot be used to connect to devices within a cyberlimb;
they require a DNI connection. A cyberlimb DNI may be linked to a
router as if it were headware." (mm.22)
9) While item 8 seems to imply that a "cyberlimb DNI" is somehow
different than a "standard DNI", no other rules back this up. A DNI is
a DNI; the device doesn't care where it is. Thus, I believe it proper
to read item 8 as "a DNI may be linked to a router".

Taken together, I interpret these items to mean that DNI connections
act as "super" router connections that allow control of the device as
well as just communication with/through it. There are other
interpretations possible, but the alternatives I considered all made
item 8 completely confusing, contradictory rubbish. If you buy my
interpretation, it means that:

a) Every DNI uses up a connection on the router/datajack.
b) Every DNI .includes. all the benefits of a router connection to the
device (in addition to the ability to control it).

Note that some items have a limited form of DNI implied in their
function. For example, an image link seems like it would have a
rudimentary set of mental commands built into it (at the very least
on/off) and not require a separate DNI. This is true of several other
types of headware (which may have been the point in making the
distinction of "cyberlimb DNI" in item 8). Also keep in mind that some
cyberware (ears and eye, in particualr) can have "accessories" which
are considered connected to them automatically. This implies that you
can, for example, linking a router to a cyberear connects all the
accessories of the cyberear to the router as well.

The only confusion I have is about if you need one DNI for each device
you want to control or if one DNI can control all DNI-enabled devices
in the internal network. In most places, the rules seem to suggest that
you need one for each device. This is never said explicitly, but the
rules repeatedly mention the DNI is a connection to a specific device.
If this is true, however, then one rule makes no sense: "Any external
device that is DNI-modified can be controlled via datajack" (mm.38).
This rule only makes sense if there is just one DNI for all devices.
Otherwise, where is the DNI that controls this external device?

You can resolve this in one of three ways:

1) Hand wave the inconsistency away by saying that a datajack contains
a DNI for external devices implicitly.
2) Require that anyone wanting to control external devices through a
datajack must buy a separate DNI for the purpose.
3) Require a single DNI as a "controller" for all devices on the
internal network. Under this rule, the router/datack is more like a USB
hub, with the DNI acting as the computer controlling the peripherals.
The DNI is the bridge between the array of devices and the brain.

> I think that DNI are just connected to the neural network of the
> spine. If it's correct, the person should learn some kind of body
> command to activate it, is that right?

If I understand the question correctly, the answer is no. The phrase
"body command" makes it sound like you are saying the person has to
learn a physical action to activate the device, like "when I twitch my
cheek like this, my orientation system dumps info to my image link".
This is .not. the case.

DNIs connect to the brain, not the spine. Their entire purpose is to
give you complete .mental. control over the device. It is controlled by
thought alone.

> I think that most of the essence cost of the cranial cyberware is due
> to neurone/machine interface. Is ithat right? If so, could a
> connection to router make the cost lower(?) since the cyberware is
> connected to the router, controlled via it and the router as only one
> interface to the brain.

This is more of a game balance issue than a realism issue, but you can
see something like this at work with devices embedded into cyberlimbs.
An orientation system in a cyberlimb, for example, costs no essense
(though would require the essense for a DNI to control).

> I assume that one can manage the transfert and treatment of
> information between datajack, router and all the little thingy
> attached to that (datacompactor, knowsoft link, cyber memory,
> eyedisplay, camcorder, sound filter, radio, scanner,....) with
> dedicated mental impulse one had to learn to use the cyberware with
> efficiency, idem for DNI controlled cyberware.
> First, Is it correct?

Yes.

> Second, if it's correct, how do we reflect it in game term (adapation
> time)? Is this point viewed in any rule book? Anyway, I thought of a
> learning time directly proportional to the essence cost of the
> cyberware, something like a day training (8 hours) for every full 1/10
> of the essence cost of the standard cyberware... But isn't it too
> much?

I've always assumed these learned impulses were no more difficult than
learning to use the device with your hands. How much "training time" do
you need for a TV remote control? How about cell phone? Generally, I
just ignore this stuff. The time needed to train on most implanted
items is going to be nearly nonexistent compared to the time taken
recovering from the surgery done to implant it.

> Third, Assuming the character suffer from amnesia, will it affect is
> ability to use this cyberware? and from what level of amnesia should
> it affect his ability?

That is a matter of story-telling and, as such, is firmly in the hands
of the GM.

Wordman
Message no. 12
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:31:30 +0000
In article <Law15-F22ytm8zCH6J5000529d7@*******.com>, boris soban
<bye_boris@*******.com> writes
>Hello,
>
>I've got some questions my players asked me and I couldn't answer...
>
>First:
>A cybersamurai with an initiative of 32, he then acts 4 times, can
>theoricaly fire 8 rounds in the initiative turn if his pistol is turned
>on semi-auto. Is it reallistic for a pistol to fire 8 rounds in SA in 3
>seconds?

I could do that without wires, and with some of the rounds hitting the
target... so, the samurai should be able to do so.

>And we do not speak of the guy with a full auto assault rifle who would
>fire something like 45 rounds in the same time... Me not being a weapon
>specialist I couldn't answer... Can anyone help me?

Sure. With an automatic weapon you just hold the trigger down and let
the weapon run: typically 30-45 rounds per combat turn. For a hand-held
weapon that might not be accurate, but for a tripod-mounted machine gun
it would be lethal. (SR never did do top-end military combat well)


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 13
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Questions of players
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:48:20 +0000
In article <000701c3a1d3$59114020$f4fea8c0@****>, Russ Myrick
<ceadawg2@***.net> writes
>Currently, the World Speed Fire Record, 8 rounds in 1 second, is held by a
>Ruger Warhawk. This is a double action revolver. However, the shootist ( I
>don't remember his name, it was on the History Channel the other night) is a
>professional trick shooter, and even with that status was only able to put 2
>rounds on the target paper at 6m. The target appeared to be a standard 50m
>range target with a 2cm bullseye and a 20cm black ring.

So, giving him three times as long to fire, plus some extremely
expensive reflex enhancements, should fix it nicely :)

>One thing to remember, even though a magazine/clip
>fed weapon is rated for X number of rounds + 1 up the spout, the follower
>spring in that clip or mag does not reach full strength until it has reached
>50% extention

No, the spring pushes most strongly when fully compressed (meaning full
magazine) and least so when feeding the last round.

>Which means that a fully loaded clip is slow to feed for the
>1st few rounds fired and is more likely to cause a miss feed in the weapon.

False about slow to feed: however, the increased spring pressure does
exacerbate the friction of any dirt or debris. Hence the British
practice of loading 30-round magazines with only 25 in harsh desert
conditions. (For temperate, the mags were designed for thirty and work
perfectly well when full)

>Therefore, most pros I know (cops not included) run 5rds short in their
>clips (M16, 20rd mag ...load 15; Beretta 15rd mag ...load 10; etc.).

The US has suffered serious problems with M9 pistol magazines, in part
because of low-bidding the supply: users of commercial Beretta magazines
have reported good results, while the issue magazines are failing to
feed even when loaded with just ten (performing so poorly that rounds
are falling out of the magazines and the springs are failing to provide
pressure at all: hand-stretching the springs is apparently common but
discouraged)

>Spring breakages
>during rapid SA fire or FA fire may result in an exploding magazine.

How? All that happens is the spring stops pushing the rounds up to the
feed ramp, so the weapon stops.

>The
>limitation on speed is primarily due to the shooter and his/her ability to
>place rounds on target. The maximum firing rate for SA weapons is
>determined by using a motor driven device to "pull" the trigger and clocking
>the time to empty a fully loaded magazine/clip.

Don't think we ever bothered, when we used L1A1s. You could get ~5 shots
a second in "unaimed panic" mode for CQB; 2/sec was a good accurate
rapid aimed fire at ~100m; and the more precision you were shooting for,
the more deliberate you got after that.


>Most experts aggree that the
>realistic firing rate for someone using that weapon in combat is around 40%
>of the tested rpm.

Half that, maybe, in most cases.

FWIW "realistic" suppressive fire rates are around 20-30rpm for aimed
single shots. Less isn't sufficiently deterrent, more overheats the
barrel before the assault group are ready to go in. I recall a guide
(for the Russian RPK, IIRC) that advised 100 rounds in the first minute
to pin and suppress the enemy, then no more than 40 rounds per minute
after that to keep them down. (Cyclic rate was ~600rpm but the barrel
was fixed and tended to overheat)

Heavier weapons like MGs that fire faster, tend to have changeable
barrels: the FN MAG we used was rated for ~800rpm, with a barrel change
every 400 rounds rapid or 500 rounds burst fire. Firing in light role
(man-carried, fired from a bipod) it would fire bursts of 4-5 rounds at
~150rpm: firing in sustained mode from a tripod it would fire bursts of
20-50 rounds at a higher rate, limited by ammo and barrel supply and by
targets (and by the desire to move fairly often to avoid counterfire)

Faster rates of fire get you bigger troubles: the German MG42 fired a
startling 1,200rpm (60 rounds per Combat Turn) but needed its barrel
changing every 250 rounds or 12 seconds (and just shovelling the
ammunition into its breech was quite a task)

--
Paul J. Adam

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