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Message no. 1
From: Ryan Bolduan <emeottrw@***.MRS.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:20:53 -0500
Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store and
was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a
whole lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while
thumbing through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that almost
all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's just
me being anal again though.


Talk to you later!!

/> Duct tape is like the force, it has a light and
/< a dark side and it binds the universe together.
O[\\\\\\(O):::<===============================================-
\<
\> -- Ryan Bolduan
Message no. 2
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:23:47 -0400
On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Ryan Bolduan wrote:

> Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store and
> was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a
> whole lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while
> thumbing through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that almost
> all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
> archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
> supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's just
> me being anal again though.
>

Better yet, most of the metahuman archetypes are trolls, the rarest
pc metahuman race in the sixth world.
Message no. 3
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Quick Archetype Question -Reply
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:30:18 -0400
>Did anybody else notice that almost
>all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of
>3 human archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a
>popuation that is supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a
>little biased? Maybe it's just me being anal again though.
I noticed that as well. There were only 3 archetypes...
Adept, Wep Specialist, and Str Samurai I think.
Maybe its trying to reflect that more metahumans are runners
(since more are sinless) then humans?!
Beyond that I tried not to read too much into it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 331-1159
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 4
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:28:51 EST
> Better yet, most of the metahuman archetypes are trolls, the rarest
> pc metahuman race in the sixth world.

At least they told us what that thing on the cover of the companion
was.

-=SwiftOne=-
Rarest pc metahuman race? Try Dwarf. My group has a hate-on against
elves, so our balance goes Human->Troll->Ork->Dwarf, with a few
hanger-on elves . It used to be Elves->Humans, etc.
Message no. 5
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:57:49 -0400
On 17 Aug 98, at 15:20, Ryan Bolduan wrote:

> Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store and
> was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a whole
> lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while thumbing
> through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that almost all of
> the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
> archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
> supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's just
> me being anal again though.

In SR2, the mage archetypes were mostly human or elf. FASA wanted to
show that in SR3, you could create viable mage characters of any
metatype, and that is why they focused on metahumans, especially
trolls.

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 6
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:43:10 -0400
On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:20:53 -0500 Ryan Bolduan
<emeottrw@***.MRS.UMN.EDU> writes:
>Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store
and
>was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a
>whole lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while
>thumbing through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that
almost
>all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
>archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
>supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's
just
>me being anal again though.

Really? This makes me wanna get SR3 all the more. The beef I had with
SR2 archetypes is that they were almost all human, with one elf and one
dwarf. I know how to do a human, they're easy. No priority adjustments
or nothing. But, how the heck should a troll shaman look? No, I don't
think of myself as unoriginal but I do like to have an example now and
then. Thank goodness for the SR2 Gamemaster Screen.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
"Yeah, I got a Big, Nasty Sword I call a Knife. What's it to ya?"

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Message no. 7
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:30:47 EDT
In a message dated 17/08/98 15:21:11 Central Daylight Time,
emeottrw@***.MRS.UMN.EDU writes:

> Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store and
> was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a
> whole lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while
> thumbing through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that almost
> all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
> archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
> supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's just
> me being anal again though.

Well, aside from the likely hood that metahumans are forced to live lives of
crime because the round-eared freaks force them out of decent jobs and into
substandard housing...

IIRC, there are 3 of each race in the quick characters section (including an
adept who looks like a gimp), probably in order to give people a range of
ideas about characters (of course, if that were true, all 3 of the dwarven
character's wouldn't have been tech-heads. Oh, well).

Nexx
Message no. 8
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:08:52 -0400
Once upon a time, Ryan Bolduan wrote;

>Did anybody else notice that almost all of the archetypes were metahumans?

I didn't care about how much alphaware there was, but that's just me.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 9
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:36:31 -0500
On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:08:52 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, Ryan Bolduan wrote;
>
>>Did anybody else notice that almost all of the archetypes were
>metahumans?
>
> I didn't care about how much alphaware there was, but that's just
me.
>
<SNIP Sig>
> I am MC23

I don't have SR3 so I have to judge by context ... did you mean you
"didn't care FOR how much alphaware there was" ... as in "in the
archetypes"?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Message no. 10
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:57:09 -0400
At 04:23 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Ryan Bolduan wrote:
>
>> Aaaaah, back from time away... I finally got around to my local store and
>> was able to pick up a copy of SR3 yesterday. While I haven't had a
>> whole lot of time to read it yet, one thing kind of disturbed me while
>> thumbing through it on the way home. Did anybody else notice that almost
>> all of the archetypes were metahumans? I think I saw a total of 3 human
>> archetypes (correct me if I am wrong). Now for a popuation that is
>> supposed to be mostly human, isn't this a little biased? Maybe it's just
>> me being anal again though.
>>
>
>Better yet, most of the metahuman archetypes are trolls, the rarest
>pc metahuman race in the sixth world.

Well remember that they've said all over the place that they wanted to
market this book as the all-in-one, you-can-pick-it-up-and-go book. So for
someone who's just starting out in SR3, it makes sense to make the
characters metahumans. First, there's the whole coolness factor. Second,
someone else pointed out, I think correctly, that more people would
understand how to play a human than a troll. So they put more smaples in
about them.

Third, it seems easier take the metahuman sample and make them human than
to take the human smaple into a metahuman. Going to human you take away a
few attributes, then get to jack up one of the priotities to get more
points for attributes, skills, or money. If you want to take, say, the
street samurai sample and make him metahuman you have to redo the
priorities and figure out what you're going to cut out to get that C or D
priority open.

Just my 4 cents (inflation bites).


Sommers, Confirmation #23263
"Hey, this is better than actually getting some work done."
Message no. 11
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:47:52 -0400
Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;

>I don't have SR3 so I have to judge by context ... did you mean you
>"didn't care FOR how much alphaware there was" ... as in "in the
>archetypes"?

Yes
Message no. 12
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:04:00 -0500
On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, MC23 wrote:

> I didn't care about how much alphaware there was, but that's just me.

Hmm. If its the fact a number of them used Alpha grade Cyberwear you have
to rember that SOTA has moved in 10 years. SR3 makes Alphawear fairly
available at chargen but it still costs a bundle. Now you dont just have
to decide what cyberwear you can afford/fit into the character you have to
decide "Do I want to pay more now so i can fit more in latter or just go
whole hog now and not be able to upgrade later in life?" which i think is
an interesting choice to have to make.

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 13
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:55:40 -0400
Once upon a time, The Bookworm wrote;

>> I didn't care about how much alphaware there was, but that's just me.
>
>Hmm. If its the fact a number of them used Alpha grade Cyberwear you have
>to remember that SOTA has moved in 10 years. SR3 makes Alphawear fairly
>available at chargen but it still costs a bundle. Now you dont just have
>to decide what cyberwear you can afford/fit into the character you have to
>decide "Do I want to pay more now so i can fit more in latter or just go
>whole hog now and not be able to upgrade later in life?" which i think is
>an interesting choice to have to make.

The the amount of use it didn't look like much of a choice between
normal and alphaware. Standard cyberware appears to be completely
undesirable. We know of the importance of alphaware and that can't be
helped but showing so much of it in use sets a precedent that it is the
standard and not normal cyberware. It just jumpstarts the arms race (no
pun intended).
It's nothing I hate, I just wish it was so prominent.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

CRY HAVOC! And let slip the flames of SR3

I am MC23
Message no. 14
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:00:35 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of MC23
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 15:56
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
> Once upon a time, The Bookworm wrote;


> The the amount of use it didn't look like much of a choice between
> normal and alphaware. Standard cyberware appears to be completely
> undesirable. We know of the importance of alphaware and that can't be
> helped but showing so much of it in use sets a precedent that it is the
> standard and not normal cyberware. It just jumpstarts the arms race (no
> pun intended).
> It's nothing I hate, I just wish it was so prominent.

That's OK. A quick bit of work with my calculator and a sheet of paper says
that the street sam archetype hasn't spent his A priority(Spent the B
twice), has negative essence, and spent 1,097,000 nuyen on his cyberware.
(Alpha grade wired and those cyberarms!)

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security - Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Homepage : http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~jhurley1
Message no. 15
From: Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:24:43 -0700
Jonathan Hurley wrote:

> That's OK. A quick bit of work with my calculator and a sheet of paper says
> that the street sam archetype hasn't spent his A priority(Spent the B
> twice), has negative essence, and spent 1,097,000 nuyen on his cyberware.
> (Alpha grade wired and those cyberarms!)

What is this, a tradition? They *never* get the Street Sam right.

Good thing I don't use archetypes

(btw, if my post to Adam with a single line appended to a huge quote hit
this list, I apologize for two things - the first is that it was meant to
go to Adam G., and the second was that I only intended to quote the first
three lines)

(smacks Netscape)

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks |xenya@********.com | cam#9309026
Lydia Morales (Brujah)|"But Brain, where are we going to find a four
Madelynne (Malkavian) | armed goddess of destruction at THIS hour?"
Sif Stormbringer (Get)|"Shut up, Pinky, or I'll kill you."
Message no. 16
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quick Archetype Question
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:16:25 -0700
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>

> > The the amount of use it didn't look like much of a choice between
> > normal and alphaware. Standard cyberware appears to be completely
> > undesirable. We know of the importance of alphaware and that can't be
> > helped but showing so much of it in use sets a precedent that it is the
> > standard and not normal cyberware. It just jumpstarts the arms race (no
> > pun intended).
> > It's nothing I hate, I just wish it was so prominent.
>
> That's OK. A quick bit of work with my calculator and a sheet of paper
says
> that the street sam archetype hasn't spent his A priority(Spent the B
> twice), has negative essence, and spent 1,097,000 nuyen on his cyberware.
> (Alpha grade wired and those cyberarms!)

I admit that I may have missed something, but if you are talking about the
Street Sam archetype in SR3 I would check your calculator again because
other than printing that he used an Attributes priority of A when he
actually used B (leaving A for resources instead of B) I can't find
anything incorrect. I didn't crunch the numbers on the cyberware, but I
can if you would like.

Caric

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