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Message no. 1
From: DS01813@*******
Subject: Quickening
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 14:22:00 CDT
Quickening is allowed to be used on people. The concensus is that
replacing a spell lock with Quickening removes the danger from the Mage.
This is not true. The link still exists, thus it can still be used to
attack the mage through. The benefit is not needing to pay 15,000 nuyen
per lock, and the ability to boost the force of a Quickening above 1.
Remember that locks are force 1 no matter how much Karma is dumped
into them. This makes for weak, expensive, and vulnerable holes in the mages
defenses. Quickening allows a Mage to raise the force through the expenditure
of extra Karma but it does not remove the Astral link to the casting mage.
The reason that no sane Mage would give a Mundane a Spell Lock or
Quickening is because the link is to the Mage and not the person affected by
the spell.


David Satchell
Message no. 2
From: Alexander Shearer <alex@******.NOSC.MIL>
Subject: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 15:15:42 -0800
Can someone quote the rules as saying Quickening is an astral
bridge? Otherwise, I don't believe it is, mostly because it seemed
that the main reason foci were bridges was due to their dual nature,
which a Quickening lacks, simply because it lacks a physical body (it
is a purely astral entity). A Quickening is just a supercharged
sustained spell...and you can't ground a spell through a normal
sustained spell.


Side note: Anyone out there use Anchoring? It's too
Karma-hungry for my tastes...
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 19:11:03 -0400
>>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Shearer
<alex@******.NOSC.MIL> writes:

Alexander> Can someone quote the rules as saying Quickening is an
Alexander> astral bridge?

It's in one of the DLoH answer lists. No, I don't know where they're
archived; I've been looking for about a month or so.

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Message no. 4
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 19:34:33 -0500
Anchoring...

You're able to use a focus, etc, as an anchoring item. So say you've got
your power focus(3), and have anchored your armor(4) spell into it.

What do you think, if someone wants to defeat the anchored spell, do they
only have to defeat a force 2 creature, or do they also have to fight the
focus? If they must fight the focus, do they have to fight it first, does
it add its force to the inactive (and hence 1/2 power) anchored spell, what?

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 5
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 20:36:33 -0500
On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> Alexander> Can someone quote the rules as saying Quickening is an
> Alexander> astral bridge?
> It's in one of the DLoH answer lists. No, I don't know where they're
> archived; I've been looking for about a month or so.


What is DLoH? Is it a supplement by FASA or is it another "sounds
reasonble" discussion group, or is it someone altogether different?

However, Quickening doesn't have a physical component. That's what is
required for grounding out, or else Sustained spells would be a problem too.

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 6
From: The Backrub Guru <lozanom@******.ENMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 19:04:35 +0300
>What is DLoH? Is it a supplement by FASA or is it another "sounds
>reasonble" discussion group, or is it someone altogether different?

DLoH is Dark Lord on High. Read the ShadowFAQ through!

Michael

**** %%%% /Michael Ray Stephen Lozano\ **** %%%%
****% *%%%% / lozanom@******.enmu.edu \ ****% *%%%%
****%% **%%%% / "Better living through \ ****%% **%%%%
****%%***%%%% / spontaneous backrubs." \ ****%%***%%%%
**** %** %%%% / GMU/O -d+@ -p+ c++++ !l u- m+ \ **** %** %%%%
**** * %%%%/ s/- n---(--) h f+ g- w+ t+ r+ y+ \**** * %%%%
Message no. 7
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 12:02:01 +1000
Brian W. Allison wrote:

> > Alexander> Can someone quote the rules as saying Quickening is an
> > Alexander> astral bridge?
> > It's in one of the DLoH answer lists. No, I don't know where they're
> > archived; I've been looking for about a month or so.
>

> What is DLoH?
>

> However, Quickening doesn't have a physical component. That's what is
> required for grounding out, or else Sustained spells would be a problem too.

My understanding is that the DLoH (The Dark Lord on High, = Tom Dowd)
says you can ground through a Quickening; and that Paul Hume (writer of
the Grimoire, etc.) says that you cannot. This is my recollection of
informal discussions that people have reported here.

My personal opinion is that Paul Hume has a better sense of how the
magic works, and the game balance effects of the rules. Most of the
published scenarios showed little appreciation of this, according to
our GM - he had to tighten things up considerably to make many of the
modules challenging. (This was because we had 2, and sometimes
3 mages in the party.)


luke
Message no. 8
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 23:05:59 -0400
On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Alexander Shearer wrote:
A Quickening is just a supercharged
> sustained spell...and you can't ground a spell through a normal
> sustained spell.

EEEEERRRRTTT..You can ground through a sustained spell if it..READ PREV
POSTS...
--------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 9
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 22:54:12 -0500
Ok, I've been informed of whom DLoH is. My question is, what's the
rational behind allowing someone to ground a spell through a sustained
one? Or if no one can tell me, can someone let me know DLoH's node
address so I can ask him?

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 10
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 23:29:17 -0500
On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Luke Kendall wrote:

> Brian W. Allison wrote:
>
> > However, Quickening doesn't have a physical component. That's what is
> > required for grounding out, or else Sustained spells would be a problem
too.
> My understanding is that the DLoH (The Dark Lord on High, = Tom Dowd)
> says you can ground through a Quickening; and that Paul Hume (writer of
> the Grimoire, etc.) says that you cannot. This is my recollection of
> informal discussions that people have reported here.

> My personal opinion is that Paul Hume has a better sense of how the
> magic works, and the game balance effects of the rules. Most of the

I'd have to agree with you Luke, it just doesn't make any sense to me
that a person could ground through something just because there was a
channel of mana from the astral to the physical. There has to be a dual
natured entity which is astrally active. That's why active foci, ALL
anchored spells, astrally percieving creatures, etc (did I miss any?
*grin*) are vulnerable. It's also why I don't believe that
sustained/Quickened spells are vulnerable.

I'm still waiting.... yearning for a rational explantion of why either of
the two could be grounded through..... *sigh*

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 11
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:23:00 -0500
On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, C. Paul Douglas wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Alexander Shearer wrote:
> A Quickening is just a supercharged
> > sustained spell...and you can't ground a spell through a normal
> > sustained spell.
>
> EEEEERRRRTTT..You can ground through a sustained spell if it..READ PREV
> POSTS...
> --------------------------GRANITE
>

*laughs* Yep, I guessed you'd say that... and you still haven't refuted
any of my points, nor have you given me any points I've failed to refute
with some reason. Are you nervous that I'll laugh at your ideas? I won't
if you'll just share them with me... And I live near the world
headquarters of Assembly of God, "DLoh/God/<insert diety> said so"
doesn't work with me as I'm too used to it. (In case you're lucky enough
not to know, AoG is militant in all manners of life in the save way that
the Catholic church was during the Inquisition... but about all aspects
of life. Sorry to have to have shown you that kind of horror.)


Thoughts, man! Give me some Thoughts! (pretty please?....) Or if you have
none then just tell me, honesty is a very honorable trait to have!

(I still ain't going to flame.)

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 12
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Quickening...
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 15:30:38 -0400
The first thing i want to say is to the list in general..Ever have one of
those days? One of those days where you have had it and you've just gotta
say what the frag? Well that is what happened the other day..I knew I
would have to answer the flames that would ensue with asbostos gloves on
but..What the Frag..Oh yea, some peoples eyes are just too sensative to
sound..I had just had it with that particular conversation..It just seems
that as soon as the point gets settled it is like NOBODY ever heard it in
the first place..Frusteration ensues and..yes..Even I can loose
patience..Oh well..Here goes..

On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Brian W. Allison wrote:

> Ok, I've been informed of whom DLoH is. My question is, what's the
> rational behind allowing someone to ground a spell through a sustained
> one? Or if no one can tell me, can someone let me know DLoH's node
> address so I can ask him?
>
> -----------------------------

Alright, the rational is that ANYTHING that has by nature or creates by
magic an astral bridge between our plane of existance and Astral Space
MAY be grounded through this includes: ALL spells with a physical effect
[even an instantanous spell could concievably be grounded through,,roll
huge numbers and just about anything can happen], locks,foci [these when
active], duel natured beings [by their nature they exist on both planes
and provide a bridge for a spell to ground through], astrally precieving
beings [this act creates the bridge], quickenings [only when they are
physical spells], anchorings [only when they have a physical effects-ie
transformed into a frog and anchored]. reference the grim II, the core
rules, GenCon discussions with Tom Dowd the man in charge of development
for the Shadowrun RPG also known as the DLoH] as well as KAa*Ge [official
FA$A Magazine]. There is no way I am going to referance the exact pages
and volumes..You will have to either trust me,ignore me, or do your own
research...
-----------------GRANITE
Message no. 13
From: "Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 14:34:34 -0500
GRANITE,

As to DLoH's opinion, I don't see his name on the GrimoireII, so until
I see some reasoning that doesn't run counter to game balance and
(un)common sense, his is just another opinion. I might take above my own
faculties the opinion of the fellow who wrote GII.

However, as I quoted before from SRII, Spellcasting does not provide the
link you're so fond of referencing. (It doesn't say 'difficult' or 'near
impossible' it says 'does NOT'.) I don't even agree with you on the use
of this link you talk about. The duality (I'm using a different term just
to differentiate between our ideas) I talk about is something with a
physical component. Not a physical effect, such as a physical spell, but
a physical component. You know, like mud has water and earth components
and each component exists without being a producet of the other. So the
physical component of a focus has an astral component that isn't a result
of the physical and vice versa. However, the physical effect of a spell
is just that. It's caused by the astral component of the spell and
doesn't exist except as a result. So I'd argue that the necessary duality
doesn't exist. If it did, then someone could effectively bootstrap
themselves into a power domain for free. Even metamagic requires Initiation.

(Someone else suggestion that a spell could be masked. That's not one of
the things listed as being maskable. Magical ability... magic rating that
is... spell locks and foci.)

But if you really want to insist on your own beliefs fine, as someone
else said, we all have expulsion orfices.

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?
Message no. 14
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 02:06:00 EST
I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to an ally.
One of my previous GM's allowed me to do so, cause we couldn't find anything
saying we couldn't. If it is possible it becomes much cheaper (Karma wise)
to quicken spells to a ally than it is to go through the ritual of raising
attributes. So if someone could please respond and quote me a page number
it would be appreciated.
---Thank You
Sedah Drol
Message no. 15
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:39:01 -0400
>>>>> "Victor" == Victor Rodriguez, <sedahdro@*****.COM>
writes:

Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
Victor> an ally.

No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage because
effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 16
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 17:11:46 +0200
Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "Victor" == Victor Rodriguez,
<sedahdro@*****.COM> writes:
> Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
> Victor> an ally.
> No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage because
> effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.
Who says that or where is it written? A magician can quicken a spell
anywhere he/she likes, on a (un?)friendly Sammy, on a bar (as Gr. p. 45
the example), on him/herself or - as things are - on his/her ally, since
Quickened Spells do not need a 'physical' component as spell locks do
and so nothing can "drop down" when the ally goes astral. It is
"looped"
in Astral space (Grimoire, p. 44)

Sascha
Message no. 17
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:03:11 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
> Victor> an ally.
>
> Rat> No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage because
> Rat> effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.

Not so true. A mage can Quicken spells on other targets. The karma
that the mage pays is what sustains the spell in absence of the lock.
Keep in mind that the casting mage must be an initiate, and thus knows
more of how to weave permanent magics. In fact, the example given in the
Grimoire has the mage quickening a stink spell in a bar (though I think
it was on some individual *in* the bar, poor fragger).
As far as quickening spells on other people goes, it adds an
intresting dimension to magic. The voodoo houngan snake shaman gets a
fresh bit of hair from the target's hairbrush, takes it back to his
medicine lodge, and *WHAMMO!* Decrease Charisma -4 ritually cast and
quickened onto the target. It reintroduces the concept of magical curse
into the game.
Now, due to the magical nature of an ally, I would be leary of
allowing a spell to be quickened on such a creature. I would at least
require an astral quest for the knowledge of the processes to do so.

Marc
Message no. 18
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 00:43:35 +1000
Victor Rodriguez, Jr writes:

> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to an ally.
> One of my previous GM's allowed me to do so, cause we couldn't find anything
> saying we couldn't. If it is possible it becomes much cheaper (Karma wise)
> to quicken spells to a ally than it is to go through the ritual of raising
> attributes. So if someone could please respond and quote me a page number
> it would be appreciated.

Well, it's almost exactly the same as the question that goes like:

"Can an astrally perceiving magician cast a sustainable spell on an
astrally projecting magician?"

And there's nothing in the rules to say you can't. The closest ruling is
that an astrally projecting mnagician cannot sustain spells. But whether
this is because it is physically (or magically as the case may be)
impossible to sustain spells from the astral, or whether it's becasue of the
intense concentration required to project astrally, no-one knows. However,
myself I don't allow it to be done. But if I did, I would not let the spell
last if one went to the metaplanes, that's for sure. As for Quickenings,
they don't suddenly die when you go astral, but they do not increase your
stats unless you are actually on the physical plane. So, in my view, one
could do it by all means, but it will only help the allys stats when the
thing is manifested. And they might even dissapear when the ally went back
to its home metaplane, or even when it just went astral (after all, when a
magician goes and astrally projects, he still leaves his body behind, but
when a spirit does, it takes its entire existence with it).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 19
From: pran r mukherjee <pran@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:10:51 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> > Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
> > Victor> an ally.
> >
> > Rat> No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage
because
> > Rat> effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.
>
> Not so true. A mage can Quicken spells on other targets. The karma
> that the mage pays is what sustains the spell in absence of the lock.
> Keep in mind that the casting mage must be an initiate, and thus knows
> more of how to weave permanent magics. In fact, the example given in the
> Grimoire has the mage quickening a stink spell in a bar (though I think
> it was on some individual *in* the bar, poor fragger).
> As far as quickening spells on other people goes, it adds an
> intresting dimension to magic. The voodoo houngan snake shaman gets a
> fresh bit of hair from the target's hairbrush, takes it back to his
> medicine lodge, and *WHAMMO!* Decrease Charisma -4 ritually cast and
> quickened onto the target. It reintroduces the concept of magical curse
> into the game.
> Now, due to the magical nature of an ally, I would be leary of
> allowing a spell to be quickened on such a creature. I would at least
> require an astral quest for the knowledge of the processes to do so.
>
> Marc
>

I didn't think you could quicken ritual magic. I thought that you had to
be in LOS of the target astrally so that you could see the spell as it is
quickened. I could be wrong, but that is why I thought you had to be
able to assense in order to quicken.
Message no. 20
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:39:35 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, pran r mukherjee wrote:

> I didn't think you could quicken ritual magic. I thought that you had to
> be in LOS of the target astrally so that you could see the spell as it is
> quickened. I could be wrong, but that is why I thought you had to be
> able to assense in order to quicken.

Normally, I would agree with you, but the fact of the matter is
that you can cast LOS-required spells ritually even when not in LOS of
the target. Thus, it would stand to reason that you could quicken spells
when you were not in LOS if the target as long as the quickening was done
ritually. Keep in mind that both ritual magic and quickening are both
fairly drain-intensive, so this is not necessarily a recommended
activity. I think the difficulty balances out any potential abuses.

Marc
Message no. 21
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:45:31 -0400
>>>>> "Marc" == Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
writes:

Marc> In fact, the example given in the Grimoire has the mage quickening
Marc> a stink spell in a bar (though I think it was on some individual
Marc> *in* the bar, poor fragger).

Yup, I remember that example, now. And it was the bar itself, if I
recall correctly.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 22
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:46:25 -0400
>>>>> "Marc" == Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
writes:

Marc> *WHAMMO!* Decrease Charisma -4 ritually cast and quickened onto
Marc> the target. It reintroduces the concept of magical curse into the
Marc> game.

Umm... missed this the first time: you can't lock/quicken ritual magics.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ head.
Message no. 23
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:24:52 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "Victor" == Victor Rodriguez,
<sedahdro@*****.COM> writes:
> Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
> Victor> an ally.
> No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage because
> effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.

Eh? Right in the Grimoire, it give an example of a Rat shaman
quickening a spell to a place. He casts a Force 1 Stink Spell, and
Quickens it to make it permanent.

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 24
From: "Patrick D. Little" <pdl@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 18:39:23 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------
I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to an ally.
One of my previous GM's allowed me to do so, cause we couldn't find anything
saying we couldn't. If it is possible it becomes much cheaper (Karma wise)
to quicken spells to a ally than it is to go through the ritual of raising
attributes. So if someone could please respond and quote me a page number
it would be appreciated.
---Thank You
Sedah Drol


----------End of Original Message----------
Something to remember, a Quickened spell can be attacked from the astral, the raised
attributes can not. This makes the raising of attributes more attractive in my opinion. If
people disagree with me I would like to hear about it.
-------------------------------------
Name: patrick
E-mail: pdl@******.net
Date: 08/08/95
Time: 18:42:55

This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:49:45 +1000
Sascha Pabst writes:

> Who says that or where is it written? A magician can quicken a spell
> anywhere he/she likes, on a (un?)friendly Sammy, on a bar (as Gr. p. 45
> the example), on him/herself or - as things are - on his/her ally, since
> Quickened Spells do not need a 'physical' component as spell locks do
> and so nothing can "drop down" when the ally goes astral. It is
"looped"
> in Astral space (Grimoire, p. 44)

The only thing I have seen that implies this is not the case is the fact
that no magical stat bonuses apply to an astrally projecting magician. His
meat body still has the Quickened spells affecting it, but his astral form
doesn't get the bonuses. To me this implies that if an ally with such
Quickened spells were to go completely astral, then the spells would simply
cease to function (whether they came back next time the ally manifested or
not is another question).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 26
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:52:35 +1000
Stainless Steel Rat writes:

> Yup, I remember that example, now. And it was the bar itself, if I
> recall correctly.

No, it was some fat slob in the bar. I remember because said fat slob turned
out to have a Body of 6, making the casting of the spell pretty difficult.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 27
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:11:54 +0200
Daimon wrote:
> The only thing I have seen that implies this is not the case is the fact
> that no magical stat bonuses apply to an astrally projecting magician. His
> meat body still has the Quickened spells affecting it, but his astral form
> doesn't get the bonuses. To me this implies that if an ally with such
Do you have the Grimoire to hand to inform me where it stands? I do not
recall this ruling, but would be nice to throw it onto a mage I happen
to know... :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 28
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:27:26 +0200
Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "Marc" == Marc A Renouf
<jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU> writes:
> Marc> In fact, the example given in the Grimoire has the mage quickening
> Marc> a stink spell in a bar (though I think it was on some individual
> Marc> *in* the bar, poor fragger).
> Yup, I remember that example, now. And it was the bar itself, if I
> recall correctly.
The example is in the Grimoire, p. 45. The spell is cast _on_ the bar,
but _centered_ around that "poor slob sitting at one of the tables".

May we finally bring this to an end and find out if a quickened spell may
be cast on a familiar? (I nearly have the karma for mine, so it's
urgent!!! :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 29
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 20:23:53 +0200
Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU> wrote:
> last if one went to the metaplanes, that's for sure. As for Quickenings,
> they don't suddenly die when you go astral, but they do not increase your
> stats unless you are actually on the physical plane. So, in my view, one

Several people said so... I started wondering, then digging, then wondering
again... heck... where did you all get that from? ? ?

Sascha

--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 30
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:54:35 GMT
Marc A Renouf writes

> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> > Victor> I've been wondering whether or not a mage can quicken a spell to
> > Victor> an ally.
> >
I have generally considered this both possible and very sensible in
that it can be used to toughen allies up to a reasonable strength.

> > Rat> No. Quickenings can only be "attached" to the casting mage
because
> > Rat> effectively he becomes the "focus" akin to a spell lock.
>
> Not so true. A mage can Quicken spells on other targets.
spell locks are somewhat restricted as to where you can put them but
i think you can dump quickening on any vaugly 'solid' or 'living'
'object'. In this case spirits would count and as they have no
physical component you quicken the spell to the astral form which
still exists when it goes astral so the spell suvives. Of course it
does not affect the critters astral stats so it only helps in
manifest form but...

> The karma
> that the mage pays is what sustains the spell in absence of the lock.
> Keep in mind that the casting mage must be an initiate, and thus knows
> more of how to weave permanent magics. In fact, the example given in the
> Grimoire has the mage quickening a stink spell in a bar (though I think
> it was on some individual *in* the bar, poor fragger).
The spell was centeaed on a guy, (is this a mana spell - think so in
which case it itself requires a living target)

> As far as quickening spells on other people goes, it adds an
> intresting dimension to magic. The voodoo houngan snake shaman gets a
> fresh bit of hair from the target's hairbrush, takes it back to his
> medicine lodge, and *WHAMMO!* Decrease Charisma -4 ritually cast and
> quickened onto the target. It reintroduces the concept of magical curse
> into the game.
That is rather dodgy though you can already make ritual spells last a
long time with spirts (i think) and left over successes (1 hour each)

> Now, due to the magical nature of an ally, I would be leary of
> allowing a spell to be quickened on such a creature.
maybe but i think it can be done.

> I would at least
> require an astral quest for the knowledge of the processes to do so.
>
Reasonable idea, just becasue something can be done does not mean the
PC knows how, eg the teleport spell Harlequin uses, plenty folks have
seen it used so know it works, but have they got the first clue how
to do it themslves .. no

> Marc
>

Mark
Message no. 31
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 19:49:59 +1000
Sascha Pabst writes:

> Do you have the Grimoire to hand to inform me where it stands? I do not
> recall this ruling, but would be nice to throw it onto a mage I happen
> to know... :-)

Try page 86, under the "Humans on the Astral" section. It specifically says
that "In fact, most things, including non-permanent magics (sustained,
locked or quickened) do not affect attributes in astral space."

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 32
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 18:18:40 +0200
Damion Milliken
> Sascha Pabst writes:
> > Do you have the Grimoire to hand to inform me where it stands? I do not
> > recall this ruling, but would be nice to throw it onto a mage I happen
> > to know... :-)
> Try page 86, under the "Humans on the Astral" section. It specifically says
> that "In fact, most things, including non-permanent magics (sustained,
> locked or quickened) do not affect attributes in astral space."

Thanx a lot... someone will be _pretty_ surprised when he returns from
vacation :-)

Sascha
Message no. 33
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@*****.com>
Subject: Quickening
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:03:32 -0600
I know this has probably been beat to death as far as a subject goes but
alas I never followed the thread when it was talked about before...
Question: is it possible to ground a spell through a quickened spell?

Thanks and I really hope I don't get a major argument started here...

Dr Feelgood
Message no. 34
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:30:29 PDT
>I know this has probably been beat to death as far as a subject goes but
>alas I never followed the thread when it was talked about before...
>Question: is it possible to ground a spell through a quickened spell?


Oh shit...

Could someone please tell me to resubscribe when it's over?
Message no. 35
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:03:33 +0100
Mike and Jill Johnson said on 21:03/23 Aug 96...

> I know this has probably been beat to death as far as a subject goes but
> alas I never followed the thread when it was talked about before...
> Question: is it possible to ground a spell through a quickened spell?
>
> Thanks and I really hope I don't get a major argument started here...

Mike and/or Jill, you've been here for quite some time, haven't you? In
all that time, you still haven't learned that this is probably the best
way to get endless discussions, all of them leading nowhere, and possibly
flame wars too, going on on the list? :)

But anyway, to answer your question: you canNOT ground through a quickened
spell. Mike Mulvihill said so himself, brought to us courtesy of Thomas
Deeny a few months back.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
No drinking before marriage!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 36
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:05:07 +0000
On 23 Aug 96 at 20:30, Benjamin wrote:

> >I know this has probably been beat to death as far as a subject goes but
> >alas I never followed the thread when it was talked about before...
> >Question: is it possible to ground a spell through a quickened spell?
> Oh shit...
>
> Could someone please tell me to resubscribe when it's over?
Can't, just decided to have a LOOOOOONG holiday!

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 37
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:20:03 -0700
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> On 23 Aug 96 at 20:30, Benjamin wrote:
>
> > >I know this has probably been beat to death as far as a subject goes but
> > >alas I never followed the thread when it was talked about before...
> > >Question: is it possible to ground a spell through a quickened spell?
> > Oh shit...
> >
> > Could someone please tell me to resubscribe when it's over?
> Can't, just decided to have a LOOOOOONG holiday!
>
> Sascha

Our group basically just decided on house-rules that no you can't groubd
through quickened spells because there isn't a focus involved.
(Technically the source book refers to attacking or grounding through a
focus, not the spell itself.) A quickened spell can therefore only be
dispelled or killed off.

However, we also decided the flip of the coin to this advantage is that
a quickened spell is always on and active. It can be toggled on and off
via a spell lock, and thus will inhibit movement through astral barriers
and the like for the person it is quickened to.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 38
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:23:28 +0000
On 24 Aug 96 at 11:20, Loki wrote:

> Our group basically just decided on house-rules that no you can't groubd
> through quickened spells because there isn't a focus involved.
> (Technically the source book refers to attacking or grounding through a
> focus, not the spell itself.) A quickened spell can therefore only be
> dispelled or killed off.
>
> However, we also decided the flip of the coin to this advantage is that
> a quickened spell is always on and active. It can be toggled on and off
> via a spell lock, and thus will inhibit movement through astral barriers
> and the like for the person it is quickened to.
That's no house rule. It's the official ruling (at least if you follow Mike
Mulvihill). But the discussion has been up too often, too long, and was to
much like a flame... well, not war, but "armed conflict" :-/

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 39
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:43:39 -0700
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> On 24 Aug 96 at 11:20, Loki wrote:
>
> > Our group basically just decided on house-rules that no you can't groubd
> > through quickened spells because there isn't a focus involved.
> > (Technically the source book refers to attacking or grounding through a
> > focus, not the spell itself.) A quickened spell can therefore only be
> > dispelled or killed off.
> >
> > However, we also decided the flip of the coin to this advantage is that
> > a quickened spell is always on and active. It can be toggled on and off
> > via a spell lock, and thus will inhibit movement through astral barriers
> > and the like for the person it is quickened to.
> That's no house rule. It's the official ruling (at least if you follow Mike
> Mulvihill). But the discussion has been up too often, too long, and was to
> much like a flame... well, not war, but "armed conflict" :-/
>
> Sascha

No, I wasn't aware it was an official ruling. I may sound naive, but
who's Mike Mulivhill? Glad we come up with what matched group consensus
though. ;o)
@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 40
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:58:03 +0000
On 25 Aug 96 at 11:43, Loki wrote:
> No, I wasn't aware it was an official ruling. I may sound naive, but
> who's Mike Mulivhill? Glad we come up with what matched group consensus
> though. ;o)
*grin* Grab any SR2 book (ANY!). Open the page where the "impressum" is
(normally right after the table of contents). (Ooops, just detected you have
to get one of the more recent books *blush*) Have a look at the "Shadowrun
Line Developer". :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 41
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:45:49 -0600
>Mike and/or Jill, you've been here for quite some time, haven't you? In
>all that time, you still haven't learned that this is probably the best
>way to get endless discussions, all of them leading nowhere, and possibly
>flame wars too, going on on the list? :)
>
>But anyway, to answer your question: you canNOT ground through a quickened
>spell. Mike Mulvihill said so himself, brought to us courtesy of Thomas
>Deeny a few months back.
>
>--
It was me <Mike> and yes even though I've been on the list for some time I
unfortunatly hadn't followed any of the quickening threads... Unfortunatly
the subject of course had to come up in our last game... So I thought I'd
ask and no I do not want to start a major argument and if this does I would
ask that it stops to keep peace in the list... my apologies.. but I did
figure that someone.. <like Gurth just did> would be happy to sum it up and
say "No.. you cannot ground through one or Yes you can"..

Thanks for enlightening me... and I promise to from now on follow all
threads and not to or at least try not to start any major arguments...

Thanks..

Dr Feelgood... AKA Mike AKA mnj@*****.com
Message no. 42
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: Re: Quickening -Reply
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:15:26 -0400
>>> Sascha Pabst
<Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
08/25/96 12:23pm >>>
On 24 Aug 96 at 11:20, Loki wrote:

> Our group basically just decided on house-rules that
no you can't groubd
> through quickened spells because there isn't a
focus involved.
> (Technically the source book refers to attacking or
grounding through a
> focus, not the spell itself.) A quickened spell can
therefore only be
> dispelled or killed off.
> > However, we also decided the flip of the coin to
this advantage is that
> a quickened spell is always on and active. It can be
toggled on and off
> via a spell lock, and thus will inhibit movement
through astral barriers
> and the like for the person it is quickened to.
That's no house rule. It's the official ruling (at least if
you follow Mike Mulvihill). But the discussion has
been up too often, too long, and was to much like a
flame... well, not war, but "armed conflict" :-/

Sascha
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I believe the PC term is Police action....
Message no. 43
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Quickening
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:34:22 GMT
Ok, have been a reading, come to magic in a moment (assembling carp
shield meantime)

First put this in context.

The Underworld sourcebook is out!, pretty good information assuming
you intend to use organised crime. It also provides information on a
few other players, for the GM profiles of the Ancients and Cutters
1st Tier gangs (a full page of the truth!) and 6 ordinary smalltime
gangs. It also gives you info on running each of the big 4
syndicates, the prevelence of cyber and magic in them etc.

However in the discussion of the new magical tricks (not much info
but a couple of neat things to suprise players with - DO NOT read the
game section of this book unless you intend to use it as a GM,
spoilers united) there are some comments on Quickening.

With reference to grounding : [put that carp down NOW!]
P97 paragragh 1 : 'For resisting all attempts to dispell it, ground
through it or for purposes of astral combat, a spell quickened
through......' Of relevance here are 'grounding' and 'quickening',
the discussion subject is a spoiler hence why it's out of context.
Now is this a slip up or can you ground through quickenings by the
official rules? :)

With reference to Masking :
P97 column 1 end of the first section : 'The GM should take any un-
masked, quickened spells into account when.....' i.e. you can
officially mask quickenings! That was pretty much agreed on, well
here's a FASA quote.

I will make more comments on the sourcebook itself next post.

Mark
Message no. 44
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 06:54:35 -0500
I believe this topic came up several months ago, but I can't remember what
was said.

Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
grounded through quickened spells?

I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
conclusive either way.
Message no. 45
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:40 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
|
| I believe this topic came up several months ago, but I can't remember what
| was said.
|
| Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
| grounded through quickened spells?
|
| I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
| conclusive either way.

Oh no, I do *NOT* want to see this thread again. There is no
conclusive answer either way. Consider the consequences for you,
your players, and your game, and decide what *you* want to do.

Sorry, but this one just goes around in circles and takes up space.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 46
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:09:10 -0500
> |
> | I believe this topic came up several months ago, but I can't remember what
> | was said.
> |
> | Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
> | grounded through quickened spells?
> |
> | I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
> | conclusive either way.
>
> Oh no, I do *NOT* want to see this thread again. There is no
> conclusive answer either way. Consider the consequences for you,
> your players, and your game, and decide what *you* want to do.
>
> Sorry, but this one just goes around in circles and takes up space.

Yes, that is fine. I don't want to start a discussion on the topic. I
just would like to know if FASA has made any offical ruling on it, for as
you said, the discussion just goes around in circles....
Message no. 47
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:09:57 -0600
On 10:43 AM 4/1/97 -0700, David Buehrer screamed at the world:
>Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>|
>| I believe this topic came up several months ago, but I can't remember what
>| was said.
>|
>| Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
>| grounded through quickened spells?
>|
>| I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
>| conclusive either way.
>
>Oh no, I do *NOT* want to see this thread again. There is no
>conclusive answer either way. Consider the consequences for you,
>your players, and your game, and decide what *you* want to do.

The question was "has FASA made any official rulings on the grounding
through quickened spells", not "can you ground through quickenings".

To answer Midn Daniel O Fredrikson's question, no, FASA has not made an
official ruling on this subject. People involved with FASA have made
contradictory statements on this regarding this but until FASAMike makes a
ruling, it's up to the GM.

There are arguments for grounding through quickenings and there are
arguments against, but there is no official ruling.


-Thomas Deeny
telltale.hart.org

Voice: Hello, and welcome to the Springfield Police Department Resc-u-Fone.
If you know the name of the felony being committed, press one. To choose
from a list of felonies, press two. If you are being murdered or calling
from a rotary phone, please stay on the line.

Bart: [growls, punches some numbers]

Voice: You have selected regicide. If you know the name of the king or
queen being murdered, press one.
Message no. 48
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:22:51 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
|
| > Oh no, I do *NOT* want to see this thread again. There is no
| > conclusive answer either way. Consider the consequences for you,
| > your players, and your game, and decide what *you* want to do.
| >
| > Sorry, but this one just goes around in circles and takes up space.
|
| Yes, that is fine. I don't want to start a discussion on the topic. I
| just would like to know if FASA has made any offical ruling on it, for as
| you said, the discussion just goes around in circles....

Whoops. I read "quickening" and stopped reading. Sorry <sheepish grin>

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 49
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:02:32 +1000
> I believe this topic came up several months ago, but I can't remember what
> was said.
>
> Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
> grounded through quickened spells?
>
> I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
> conclusive either way.

Ahhhhhhh! Run away! The end of the world is nigh!!!

Seriously though, this is a much disputed subject. FASAMike made a
tentative "no", and then retracted it. It's near and dear to everyone's
hearts, and i don't think anyone's going to change their minds on it any
time soon.

For the record, my vote is No you can't, for one very good reason: you
can't turn off Quickenings.

As I see it, Foci and Spell Locks can be grounded through. Using those
is a calculated risk for the mage. They take the risk that if they use
their foci, they might get grounded through.

With quickenings, you don't have that option. They are ALWAYS on. So I
see it as a matter of game balance to disallow grounding through
Quickenings.

Otherwise, why would you quicken a spell? Why not just get a spell lock,
which costs a lot less Karma? As far as I'm concerned, the extra benefit
of quickenings, that justifies the huge extra Karma cost, is that they
can't be grounded through.

Just my 2 nuyen worth; your mileage may vary.

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 50
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:24:14 -0500
>> | Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
>> | grounded through quickened spells?
>> Oh no, I do *NOT* want to see this thread again. There is no
>> conclusive answer either way. Consider the consequences for you,
>> your players, and your game, and decide what *you* want to do.

The version I've heard is that (with much argument) the theory is that
without a physical component (the spell doesn't count, nor the does the
possible existence of an astral sustaining conduit (talk to Stainless about
that!)) you can't ground...


Thus, Steve Kenson, did you consider that the Tattoo magic in Underworld
introduces a physical component to Quickenings? Are you aware of what you
have started? :)

-=SwiftOne=-

*Duck and Cover!*
Message no. 51
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:42:14 +0100
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson said on 6:54/ 1 Apr 97...

> Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
> grounded through quickened spells?

Everyone to the shelters!!

> I have been looking through the source books, and I can't find anything
> conclusive either way.

You won't find an answer in the books, as a matter of fact if you look
hard enough you can find a number of reasons why you _can_ ground through
quickenings, and about an equal number of reasons why you _cannot_.

There have been really big discussions and (near-)flame wars about this
over the years, but a true conclusion was never reached. However, IIRC
Mike gave us a DLoH ruling last year that you may or may not agree with,
which said that it's NOT POSSIBLE to ground through quickenings.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Every breath you take, every move you make, every cake you bake...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 52
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:20:21 +0000
On 1 Apr 97 at 18:24, Brett Borger wrote:
[snip]
> Thus, Steve Kenson, did you consider that the Tattoo magic in Underworld
> introduces a physical component to Quickenings? Are you aware of what you
> have started? :)
See Underworld, pp. 43-44. It is _not_ said these tatoos were
quickenings. As I read it, they are either spell locks or anchors for
anchored spells. Most probably spell locks. I think the possibility of
creating spell locks as tatoos has been discussed here before. It would
be a hell of work, but hey, we talk high level yakuza's here...


Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 53
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: quickening
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:25:00 +0100
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> > Has FASA made any offical rulings on whether spells can be
> > grounded through quickened spells?
>
> Seriously though, this is a much disputed subject. FASAMike made a
> tentative "no", and then retracted it.

Apart from this I believe Tom Dowd made a statement that in his opinion
you could ground, Steve "Awakenings" Kenson's opinion has been stated as
being you can't ground. Thus until there is some statement in a FASA
rulebook the jury is out.

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 54
From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
Subject: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:39:34 +0800
Heya everyone,

I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread. I have always
played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off" by the
Magician (Shaman et al). A player last night said that he 'thought' he had
read somewhere that Mages can turn spells on and off. I went home and
checked the Grimmy and Awakenings and couldnt seem to find any rule for this.

Is there a rule somewhere about this? Have I misinterpreted the BASIC rules
governing "Quickened" spells?

Cheers,

Gav


"In crises the most daring email: lewis@**.edu.au
course is often the safest" tel: +61 9 239 5525
fax: +61 9 239 5544
Henry A. Kissinger Gavin Lewis
The University of Notre Dame - Aust.
Message no. 55
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 06:32:43 -0700
At 09:39 AM 6/9/97 +0800, you wrote:
>Heya everyone,
>
>I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread. I have always
>played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off" by the
>Magician (Shaman et al). A player last night said that he 'thought' he had
>read somewhere that Mages can turn spells on and off. I went home and
>checked the Grimmy and Awakenings and couldnt seem to find any rule for this.
>
>Is there a rule somewhere about this? Have I misinterpreted the BASIC rules
>governing "Quickened" spells?
>
Nope, you are right. That is one of the main advantages of spell locks,
you can turn them on and off. Can't do so with quickenings, which is why
quickening invisiblity or personal barrier and the like is a bad idea. If
that character wants on-off ability, he'll have to go with a spell lock or
anchoring.

--DT
Message no. 56
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 04:13:22 -0500
At 08-Jun-97 wrote Gavin Lewis:


>Is there a rule somewhere about this? Have I misinterpreted the BASIC rules
>governing "Quickened" spells?

>Cheers,

>Gav


You are completly right.
for turn on/off spells are the spellocks designed.
--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

Message no. 57
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:21:54 EDT
On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:39:34 +0800 Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU> writes:
<<Heya everyone,

I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread. I have always
played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off">>


Ack! Quickenings! No! Noooo-wait a minute. This isn't about grounding, is
it? Oh, uh, then never mind:)


<<by the Magician (Shaman et al). A player last night said that he
'thought' he had read somewhere that Mages can turn spells on and off. I
went home and checked the Grimmy and Awakenings and couldnt seem to find
any rule for this.

Is there a rule somewhere about this? Have I misinterpreted the BASIC
rules governing "Quickened" spells?>>


No, you were right. The whole dealy with Quickened spells is that they
sustain a spell for an indefinite period of time without being as
vulnerable form Astral space as a spell lock. As a trade-off, a quickened
spell cannot be turned off and it requires both more karma and
initiation. So, be sure to take your player kindly and gently by the
hand, walk him over to the corner and kindly gently explain to them that
THEY WERE WRONG!! :) Just kidding there:)


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 58
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:12:25 EDT
Quickening?

<ahem>

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
<breath>
-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


(actually I don't think you can turn quickening's on and off anymore than
you could drop and raise a sustained spell w/ having to recast
it...that's what anchorings, with all their nifty activation/deactivation
links, are for.)

~Tim ("..run for the hills!!...")
Message no. 59
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:10:43 EST
> >I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread. I have always
> >played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off" by the

> is a bad idea. If that character wants on-off ability, he'll have
> to go with a spell lock or anchoring.

Which leads me to my question....I've been bothered that you can't
combine the duration of Spell locks with the controls involved in an
Anchor....(I don't mind losing my safety from Grounding. But let's
not get into that)...Basicaly, I can make an Anchor that needs
recharged, or a Spell lock that is "dumb".

<munchie>
I want both.
</munchie>
Message no. 60
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:09:56 +0100
|
|Heya everyone,
|
|I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread. I have always
|played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off" by the
|Magician (Shaman et al). A player last night said that he 'thought' he had
|read somewhere that Mages can turn spells on and off.

With spell locks, yes.
There is still a link between the mage and the lock.

With quickenings, no.
There is no link. The quickening is an independent entity....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 61
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:19:02 +0100
|Which leads me to my question....I've been bothered that you can't
|combine the duration of Spell locks with the controls involved in an
|Anchor....(I don't mind losing my safety from Grounding. But let's
|not get into that)...Basicaly, I can make an Anchor that needs
|recharged, or a Spell lock that is "dumb".
|
|<munchie>
|I want both.
|</munchie>

Then learn Enchantment at a high level, and design it yourself.
(I imagine the Karma cost would be comparable to a power focus though.)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 62
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:35:02 -0400
Gav, you're right. You can't turn quickened spells off but you can turn
off spells in spell locks. You can also attack spell locks and ground
physical spells through them as we all know but you can still dispell a
quickened spell which leaves the person with the quickened, oh let's say
health spell, pretty darn confused.

Dust
Message no. 63
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:21:55 -0700
| Heya everyone,
|
| I am hoping I am not asking a question from an old thread

Not unless you ask that dreaded *roundin* question.

I have always
| played that 'Quickened' spells can NOT be turned "on and off" by the
| Magician (Shaman et al).

That is correct AFAIK

A player last night said that he 'thought' he had
| read somewhere that Mages can turn spells on and off. I went home and
| checked the Grimmy and Awakenings and couldnt seem to find any rule for
this.

I would say that's because it isn't there...the only way to turn off a
quickened spell is to defeat it in astral combat or dispell it.

| Is there a rule somewhere about this? Have I misinterpreted the BASIC
rules
| governing "Quickened" spells?

Nope.

| Cheers,

"NORM!!!!!" Sorry...feelin' wierd.

-Caric

"I was NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!"
-Blackjack our Racoon Shaman when asked why he ran away from one
particular fight."
Message no. 64
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:33 -0700
Basicaly, I can make an Anchor that needs
| recharged, or a Spell lock that is "dumb".
|
| <munchie>
| I want both.
| </munchie>

So what you're saying is that you want to be able to anchor some links to a
spell lock so that it will activate under certain conditions?
Interesting...I will have to examine if that is possible.


-Caric

"I was NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!"
-Blackjack our Racoon Shaman when asked why he ran away from one
particular fight."
Message no. 65
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:50:04 EDT
On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:10:43 EST Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
<snip>
>Which leads me to my question....I've been bothered that you can't
>combine the duration of Spell locks with the controls involved in an
>Anchor....(I don't mind losing my safety from Grounding. But let's
>not get into that)...Basicaly, I can make an Anchor that needs
>recharged, or a Spell lock that is "dumb".
>
><munchie>
>I want both.
></munchie>


Well, in Awakenings, one of the fiction sections describes one of the
corp sec groups giving the mundies what sounds like a locked Anchored
spell (I think it was a detect bullet/bullet barrier combo that was
described as being spell locked). If all you want is the ability to turn
a permanent spell on or off without being as vulnerable from astral
space, one idea is a 'hardened' spell lock, something I'm considering.
Basic idea is thus: the focus performs exactly the same function as a
normal spell lock, however, it does not have a preset rating of 1. The
hardened spell lock would have a particular rating and could only lock a
spell up to that rating. Furthermore, it wouldn't 'disappear' the way a
normal lock does. First bonding would 3 times the rating, afterwards it
would be 2 times the rating. You could also make specific spell and spell
category versions which would further reduce the amount of karma required
but would only be able to lock a certain spell or type of spell. Also,
what about simply adding 'armor' to a focus, like the way you invest
extra karma in a quickened spell to make it more resistant to astral
attack? I wouldn't consider any of these ideas to be common knowledge,
though. Perhaps they are 'new' magic or unique abilities open only to
initiates.


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 66
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quickening
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:58:41 EST
> So what you're saying is that you want to be able to anchor some
> links to a spell lock so that it will activate under certain
> conditions? Interesting...I will have to examine if that is
> possible.

Exactly. THis leads to many "Traditional" magical items.....cloaks
of invisibility, Swords that flame on command, etc....

The problem with normal anchors is the spells run out of steam. I
have no problems limiting Instant spells, but the sustained ones....

NOw you can give arguments that few mages would like being open to
astral attack 24-hours a day, but that doesn't mean it isn't
possible.
Message no. 67
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: Quickening
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:13:24 -0500
At 09:50 AM 2/25/2005 +1100, you wrote:

>Was just wondering if people interrupt the quickening meta magic feat
>as once the a spell has been quickened you can then turn in on and off
>as much as you like or, once the spell has been turned off they will
>need to use Karama again to quicken it once more ?

A Quickened spell cannot be turned on and off; You need anchoring to do
that.
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/

Further Reading

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