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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:49:57 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Steven A. Tinner said on 11:03/13 Aug 96...
>
> > BTW - how would you folks handle a shaman wanting to quicken a Death Touch
> > Spell onto his sword?

You can not Quicken instant spells, only sustained spells. Death
touch is an instant spell, and thus not suitable for Quickening.
Anchoring, on the other hand, would work to some extent. This too has a
few drawbacks. First, anchoring a spell like this requires some sort of
activation trigger, which could be a certain situation (such as the sword
drawing blood or the wielder willing it to happen at his discretion), or the
use of a detection spell (Gurth's "Detect Sword Impact" springs to mind).
However, the important thing to remember is that instant spells
anchored to items only go off *ONCE* and the the anchoring is unraveled
and must be redone, costing more Karma and taking more time. So Death
Touch is not precisely the most efficient use of your shaman's time and
effort. It would probably make a great one-shot kill weapon, but that's
all it would be. Now if you anchored a sustained damaging manipulation
on the sword (Flame Aura, anyone?) that would be a different story. But
there are limitations to this as well. I strongly suggest you read the
Anchoring rules in the metamagic chapter of Grimoire II.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:49 PM 8/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Gurth wrote:
>> Steven A. Tinner said on 11:03/13 Aug 96...

>> > BTW - how would you folks handle a shaman wanting to quicken a Death Touch
>> > Spell onto his sword?
>
> You can not Quicken instant spells, only sustained spells. Death
>touch is an instant spell, and thus not suitable for Quickening.
>Anchoring, on the other hand, would work to some extent.

For the nth time:

But you can't anchor Combat spells!


--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 3
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:55:54 -0500 (EST)
Thanks to all who corrected my error on the Quickening/Anchoring rules. We
have corrected the mistake in our game, and Johnny 99 is not quite as lethal
as before.
(He has a few less karma too!!)



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 4
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:44:28 GMT
Marc A Renouf writes
>
> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Gurth wrote:
>
> > Steven A. Tinner said on 11:03/13 Aug 96...
> >
> > > BTW - how would you folks handle a shaman wanting to quicken a Death Touch
> > > Spell onto his sword?
>
> You can not Quicken instant spells, only sustained spells. Death
> touch is an instant spell, and thus not suitable for Quickening.
> Anchoring, on the other hand, would work to some extent. This too has a
> few drawbacks. First, anchoring a spell like this requires some sort of
> activation trigger, which could be a certain situation (such as the sword
> drawing blood or the wielder willing it to happen at his discretion), or the
> use of a detection spell (Gurth's "Detect Sword Impact" springs to mind).
The default ground zero activator is not advised with this particular
spell, though could be used for traps. You therefore need a spell
link to a detection spell as suggested, at least 3 more karma points
up in smoke :)

> However, the important thing to remember is that instant spells
> anchored to items only go off *ONCE* and the the anchoring is unraveled
> and must be redone, costing more Karma and taking more time.
No the karma cost is to prepare the item the anchoring is to be
placed upon. Repowering it does therefore not cost karma, though you
have to recast the whole lot and as it counts as a single casting you
get one magic pool for all the rolls in the entire anchored complex.
I say by the note in quickening centring vs drain would count on all
drain rolls but even then its not funny.
This is still not karma cheap however. Say a force 6 attack spell
with trigger.
Force 6 kill em all : force 6 spell : 6 karma.
spell link to allow
link for activation : : 1 karma
detection spell : force 1+ : 1 karma
link to activate
response spell : : 1 karma
now thats 9 kamra for something thats 1 use then time out to recharge
(two actions plus probably some drain) considering that would
increase an attribute, possibly a secondary skill or buy 2 spells
(say one high and 1 low force) this trick gets expensive fast and
magicians are already karma hungry characters.

> So Death
> Touch is not precisely the most efficient use of your shaman's time and
> effort. It would probably make a great one-shot kill weapon, but that's
> all it would be.
yep. decent return on 9 karma, well its only 1 for quickened +4
strength!

> Now if you anchored a sustained damaging manipulation
> on the sword (Flame Aura, anyone?) that would be a different story. But
> there are limitations to this as well. I strongly suggest you read the
> Anchoring rules in the metamagic chapter of Grimoire II.
This can be worth it as its more power on top of all the other mods
but it is rather complicated and you will for moderately sensible
drain have a maximum spell duration per recharge in the 5 minutes or
so region most likely. A long time but thats another ting to activate
at the start of combat. As Marc suggests go read the grimoire, then
do it again carefully.

>
> Marc
>
>

Mark
Message no. 5
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:07:36 +0000
On 20 Aug 96 at 12:56, Ubiquitous wrote:
[Anchoring]
> For the nth time:
> But you can't anchor Combat spells!
Grimoire p.50 "The one drawback to anchoring spells occurs principally in
connection with damaging spells (either combat or manipulation) of Instant
duration."

Please repeat it for me: You can't WHAT?

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 6
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:03:27 -0500 (EST)
>Marc A Renouf writes

>>Big snip here.<<

Excellent advise! Thank you for your input!



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 7
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 21 Aug 96 10:59:00 -0400
Message authorized by:
: /S=bluewizard@ncweb.com/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.1/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US/ a
Thanks to all who corrected my error on the Quickening/Anchoring rules. We
have corrected the mistake in our game, and Johnny 99 is not quite as lethal
as before.
(He has a few less karma too!!)


You mean there exists somewhere an initiated mage that actually had
spare karma lying around???? It boggles the mind. :)

chris
Message no. 8
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:23:47 -0500 (EST)
> You mean there exists somewhere an initiated mage that actually had
>spare karma lying around???? It boggles the mind. :)

You don't know the half of it!!
Johnny 99 is one heck of a shaman!
He's part of a two man team with an Orc decker named Bull. They are both
excellent runners who have a tendency to pull off FLAWLESS runs.



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 9
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[4]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 21 Aug 96 16:12:00 -0400
> You mean there exists somewhere an initiated mage that actually had
>spare karma lying around???? It boggles the mind. :)

You don't know the half of it!!
Johnny 99 is one heck of a shaman!
He's part of a two man team with an Orc decker named Bull. They are both
excellent runners who have a tendency to pull off FLAWLESS runs.



Huh, sounds like a couple of gifted players do you ever have trouble
challenging them? I don't just mean in the fights, thats easy, but I
mean role playing wise.....harking back to the how to induce paranoia
thread I recommend that all Shadowrun GMs see the movie The Usual
Suspects....not only does it give GREAT ideas, but if you REALLY want
to make your group paranoid tell them you saw the movie and how much
you LOVED it. (display_evilgrin)

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 10
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:33:21 +1000 (EST)
On 21 Aug 1996 readle.cr@**.com wrote:
> You mean there exists somewhere an initiated mage that actually had
> spare karma lying around???? It boggles the mind. :)
>
> chris

Hmm. Spare Karma. Is that allowed? :)

===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 11
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:31:43 -0500 (EST)
> Huh, sounds like a couple of gifted players do you ever have trouble
> challenging them? I don't just mean in the fights, thats easy, but I
> mean role playing wise

Yes, my team is blessed with two extremely talented players.
Challenging them is not that hard, because they make it so easy.
Both players have well developed personal lives for their characters.
Johnny & Bull are currently having a crisis of faith. Their families have
been hurt badly by a recent run that inadvertantly exploded close to home.
Bull's son is hospitalized and may not live. Bull and his wife are not
speaking, and he has started drinking heavily (he was a teetotaller!)
Johnny 99 is also having emotional problems. When he was younger Johnny was
a real player, a love 'em and leave 'em type. Now, he is thinking more
seriously about his relationship with his common law wife.
(For those in the know, Johnny's wife is named Xuxa - and yes, that's who
she's based on. >>>smirk.<<<



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 12
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:43:42 +0000
On 21 Aug 96 at 14:23, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> > You mean there exists somewhere an initiated mage that actually had
> >spare karma lying around???? It boggles the mind. :)
> You don't know the half of it!!
> Johnny 99 is one heck of a shaman!
> He's part of a two man team with an Orc decker named Bull. They are both
> excellent runners who have a tendency to pull off FLAWLESS runs.
Tsk.... before someone says the m-word, I say: Bad GM :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 13
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:05:26 -0500 (EST)
>Tsk.... before someone says the m-word, I say: Bad GM :-)

Why? As the GM you're accusing of being bad, I'd like to know more.
As far as the M word. If you mean munchkin. You're more wrong than you know.
75% of this teams runs do not involve combat.
Yes, these characters do have immense amounts of karma, and more weapons and
powers than some small cities, but how they use them is quite different from
what I would consider typical.
These are OLD characters. They were originally created as first edition PC's
in 1990!
They have since been through 6 years of runs. I'd estimate more than 500
game sessions (averaging playing at least twice a week for six years.)
When they started out, and when I started as a GM they made plenty of
mistakes, and had plenty of fouled up runs.
Now, their experience is paying off. They think before they act, and their
moves are subtle and well planned. (For an example see Blackjack's file on
perfect runs at his website.)
The campaign has changed focus several times over the years. Currently the
focus is the players personal lives.
Sure, Johnny 99 can cast Urban Renewal at force 10 if he wants. What good
does that do him when his wife asks him for a divorce? Bull maybe catching
up to Fastjack in sheer ecking ability, but when his son is injured in a
firefight Bull caused, how do you think he feels.
Bad GM? I don't think so. I think we just have two very different ideas of
what Shadworun can be about, and that's fine. :-)



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 14
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 05:24:54 +0000
On 22 Aug 96 at 14:05, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> >Tsk.... before someone says the m-word, I say: Bad GM :-)
> Why? As the GM you're accusing of being bad, I'd like to know more.
> As far as the M word. If you mean munchkin. You're more wrong than you know.
> 75% of this teams runs do not involve combat.
Yup, I was wrong. I do apologize, it was 07am, I just came from work and had
to stay awake for at least two more hours to get my new appartment, and were
awake for about 32 hours then already. As I said, I apologize, neither tone
nor statement were ok. (As you can tell, I have slept in between :-) (and got
that appartment! :-)

> Yes, these characters do have immense amounts of karma, and more weapons and
> powers than some small cities, but how they use them is quite different from
> what I would consider typical.
> These are OLD characters. They were originally created as first edition PC's
> in 1990!
The problem I had with these PCs was that your description reminded me
extremely on those kids you can hear in gaming stores, about 12 to 16 years
old, and explaining how their characters saved the world again with their +7
vs. all dragons, +10 vs anything else swords. Those kids seem to be in
2players-1DM-groups as standard...
But since I have to agree I can't allow myself to criticize your campaign
without knowing more about it. (well... not publically :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 15
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 01:31:23 -0500 (EST)
>The problem I had with these PCs was that your description reminded me
>extremely on those kids you can hear in gaming stores, about 12 to 16 years
>old, and explaining how their characters saved the world again with their +7
>vs. all dragons, +10 vs anything else swords. Those kids seem to be in
>2players-1DM-groups as standard...

I can see how you'd get that idea :-) After all somedays it seems like
that's all the hobby is supporting.

>But since I have to agree I can't allow myself to criticize your campaign
>without knowing more about it. (well... not publically :-)

In all honesty I'm surprised at how much response I have gotten in regards
to these characters and their campaigns. I guess I never really thought
about just how different our campaign is.
Sitting down and actually looking at the character sheets, I can see how
from the numbers, they look like typical adolescent attempts at maxing out a
character.
Once you get to know the PC's stories though, the personality of them Shines
through, and the game becomes much more about role-playing than simply run
after run carnage.
Hey, I appreciate the feedback, good or bad. If I didn't want the input I'd
never have posted in the first place, and just gone on lurking! :-)



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Quickening and Anchoring, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!