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From:	Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject:	Re: Quickening/Sustaining and grounding
Date:	Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:13:04 +1000

Message no. 1 >> > However, Quickening doesn't have a physical component. That's what is
>> > required for grounding out, or else Sustained spells would be a problem
> too.
>> My understanding is that the DLoH (The Dark Lord on High, = Tom Dowd)
>> says you can ground through a Quickening; and that Paul Hume (writer of
>> the Grimoire, etc.) says that you cannot. This is my recollection of
>> informal discussions that people have reported here.
>
>> My personal opinion is that Paul Hume has a better sense of how the
>> magic works, and the game balance effects of the rules. Most of the
>
>I'd have to agree with you Luke, it just doesn't make any sense to me
>that a person could ground through something just because there was a
>channel of mana from the astral to the physical. There has to be a dual
>natured entity which is astrally active. That's why active foci, ALL
>anchored spells, astrally percieving creatures, etc (did I miss any?
>*grin*) are vulnerable. It's also why I don't believe that
>sustained/Quickened spells are vulnerable.
>
>I'm still waiting.... yearning for a rational explantion of why either of
>the two could be grounded through..... *sigh*
>
>------------------------------------------
>Brian

OK lets try this, if a spell is being sustained by a mage, then that mage
must in some way be influancing the astral plane, this channel of influance
could be used in its reverse mode to ground a spell down through the mage.

As to quickened spells, try they are self sustaining, but they are usually
placed on a charecter, and must be able to influance that charecter in the
physical world, take a reflex inhancement spell, in this case whats to
stop a hostile astral force grounding extra power through that link?
Almost all sustained/quickened spells have some form of physical effect,
wether it is a barrier, reflex increase or attribute increase; heres your
astral-physical grounding point.

Comments????

A'Deus.

From:	"Brian W. Allison" <bwa550s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Quickening/Sustaining and grounding
Date:	Thu, 7 Apr 1994 02:24:04 -0500

Message no. 2 On Thu, 7 Apr 1994, Neal A Porter wrote:
> OK lets try this, if a spell is being sustained by a mage, then that mage
> must in some way be influancing the astral plane, this channel of influance
> could be used in its reverse mode to ground a spell down through the mage.

Nice try at logic. First I've seen lately....However, influencing someone
else's genetic talents should be at least a Resisted test if not outright
impossible. Can I from the astral cause you to be momentarily blind just
from force of will? Noper... Since grounding a spell through the nature
of a non-living (astrally but not physically) entity as a lock or focus
requires at least an opposed test, giving astral mages (et al) carte
blanche to "reverse" someone else's control of mana is a bit unbelievable
- even laughable. Is this related to munchkinism, but... *grin* REVERSED?
(ok, it was a pun, so?)

> As to quickened spells, try they are self sustaining, but they are usually
> placed on a charecter, and must be able to influance that charecter in the

They must be centered on character when cast, but not 'placed' on him
permanently. Take for instance the Grimoire example for how to Quicken.
Rikki Ratboy cast a Stink spell inside the tavern. He had to center it on
some "poor slob" whose Wil was a 6. But when the 'slob' left, the spell
stayed in the tavern. In fact they made a point of saying that even
though it was at the tavern, it had to have a person around which to
manifest so Rikki could determine his T#. Not so it would affect the
person, but so that Rikkit would have a T#. So they're not required to be
centered on a person.

> physical world, take a reflex inhancement spell, in this case whats to
> stop a hostile astral force grounding extra power through that link?

The fact that an astral link isn't need for grounding. It is a duality of
nature that certain links have. For instance, there is an astral link
from a thesis (or cell sample, etc) which can be used in ritual sorcery.
But you can't take a look at a thesis and use the link to ground out a
spell. So more must exist, ie a dual nature of physical/astral along with
an astral link. As the Grimoire says, the spell affects the astral
portion, and grounds out through the physical. Since the spell Increase
Reflexes is mana, it hasn't got a Physical portion. Even if it were
physical, the mechanism of sustaining is not a dual natured creature.

> Almost all sustained/quickened spells have some form of physical effect,
> wether it is a barrier, reflex increase or attribute increase; heres your
> astral-physical grounding point.

Nope, they affect the physical. That's not the same as bearing a duality
themselves.

>
> Comments????

I prefer to mix them in. BTW, you needn't quote your post within my own
if you respond.

> A'Deus.

Ciao. *grin*

------------------------------------------
Brian (bwa550s@***.smsu.edu)
Michael Crawford = sing.god
(GEEK CODE) GCS d@ -p+ c++++!!!!! l u+(++) e+(++) m@(+/++/---) s@/@
!n--- h*(+) f+(?) !g(20/12) w+ t+ r+(++) y?

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