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Message no. 1
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:14:59 CST
>Did Columbus "discover" the New World before or after Shakespeare wrote
>Hamlet?

Actually, he wasn't the first to discover it! That was the vikings!! :)

>
>Granted, this is not the deepest or most crucial question on Earth, but the
>point is that Americans are taught in an unnessessarily compartmentalized
>way: Columbus is in this little box and Shakespeare is in this little box,
>and the boxes have nothing to do with each other.

That's where thinking comes in. I was taught these topics that same way,
but I made the connection with a little thought. Course I wasn't taught how
to think, I just picked it up naturally. :)

>Why did I have to learn myself that the best way to answer this is to
>realize the meaning of the numbers and use it? Doing this lets you realize
>that this problem is really 2000 + 2000 - 2. You can do that in your head
>in
>about a second, while the mechanical way I was taught is both lengthy and
>error prone.

Because it is still a good way to learn to add stuff like say:

12365+ 359=?

which is a royal pain to do the "short way". I use both ways myself, but
most don't. (apparently I'm the only one in my circle of Friends that can do
math in their head when it involves numbers of more than two digits. I
guess I'm just gifted. :) )

>
>Teaching facts over meaning does not yeild education. It yeilds someone who
>knows facts.
>

Which is a type of education. Or more appropriately: It's not what you know
but what you do with it.



Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


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Message no. 2
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:26:08 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Geoffrey Haacke wrote:

> 12365+ 359=?
>

*pooints to start -> accessories -> calculator* And btw it is 12724. Who
needs education when you've got technologyu? =P

>
> Geoff Haacke
> "If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
> "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 3
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:52:59 -0400
> >Did Columbus "discover" the New World before or after Shakespeare wrote
> >Hamlet?
>
> Actually, he wasn't the first to discover it! That was the vikings!! :)

Not them either. I put "discover" in quotes above indicate that Columbus
really didn't discover America.

"Columbus discovered American in 1492, which means that the 6 million people
who were there at the time didn't know where they were."
- Prof. Joyce (Mayan Archeology)
Message no. 4
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 99 15:22:42 +700
>>Did Columbus "discover" the New World before or after Shakespeare wrote
>>Hamlet?
>
>Actually, he wasn't the first to discover it! That was the vikings!! :)

Hmmm...

The half of me that's Native American feels a certain level of dispute with
that claim. The reason the first poster had those quotes around discover is
that neither group discovered the place. Rather both are Euros who came here.
One set is the first known. The other is the most significant.
Message no. 5
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:25:50 +0200
According to Wordman, at 14:52 on 12 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> "Columbus discovered American in 1492, which means that the 6 million people
> who were there at the time didn't know where they were."
> - Prof. Joyce (Mayan Archeology)

Have you ever read the little book that's at the front of the Discworld
Mappe? I think you might enjoy it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:25:50 +0200
According to kawaii, at 14:26 on 12 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> > 12365+ 359=?
>
> *pooints to start -> accessories -> calculator* And btw it is 12724.

That's the answer I came up with too, but I didn't use anything except my
brain to calculate it...

> Who needs education when you've got technologyu? =P

If that remark is intended to be taken seriously (hopefully not, going by
the smiley), you haven't been paying attention to the thread, have you?

(Also, if this is representative of the general mentality today, how bad
will it be in the 2060s? Nobody able to add up 1 + 1 without a calculator?
Oh wait, I went to school with people who had that problem...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:00:29 -0400
At 11.25 07-13-99 +0200, you wrote:
>will it be in the 2060s? Nobody able to add up 1 + 1 without a calculator?
>Oh wait, I went to school with people who had that problem...)

I go to school with people with that problem. I also go to a school that
specializes in engineering and nursing.

Fills me with confidence every time I see a doctor or step in a new building.




CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"
Message no. 8
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:21:14 CST
>*pooints to start -> accessories -> calculator* And btw it is 12724. Who
>needs education when you've got technologyu? =P

I don't need batteries or decent light for my brain. :D


>Ever lovable and always scrappy,
>kawaii
>
>
>
>


Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 9
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:23:52 CST
>From: "Wordman" <wordman@*******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
>Subject: RE: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
>Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:52:59 -0400
>
> > >Did Columbus "discover" the New World before or after Shakespeare
wrote
> > >Hamlet?
> >
> > Actually, he wasn't the first to discover it! That was the vikings!!
>:)
>
>Not them either. I put "discover" in quotes above indicate that Columbus
>really didn't discover America.
>
>"Columbus discovered American in 1492, which means that the 6 million
>people
>who were there at the time didn't know where they were."
> - Prof. Joyce (Mayan Archeology)

Ooops! Good point my bad! :)

Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 10
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:03:05 -0500
> > Who needs education when you've got technologyu? =P
>
> If that remark is intended to be taken seriously (hopefully not, going by
> the smiley), you haven't been paying attention to the thread, have you?
>
> (Also, if this is representative of the general mentality today, how bad
> will it be in the 2060s? Nobody able to add up 1 + 1 without a calculator?
>
> Oh wait, I went to school with people who had that problem...)
>
Okay. For starters, I can't do math. Never have been. I missed the day when
they learned the multiplication tables for 7 and I've never been able to do
those since then. Twenty years later I couldn't tell you what 7 x 8 is
without thinking about it. I can't even add correctly. It's a shame.

However, I understand the theories of math. Ask me about the Ring Theory of
Algebra and I could explain it to you perfectly. All those theorems and crap
we learned in Geometry and Algebra made perfect sense to me. I could plug
the numbers into the formula, do the math, and get the wrong answer
everytime. Because I would add 27 + 156 and get 172. Or whatever. So, in my
case, a calculator is essential. I almost failed Algebra II because I wasn't
allowed to use a calculator. (I did pass, however, because of another
important skill one learns in public schools - cheating). So, needing a
calculator may be a sign of the miseducation of our children, but in my case
it is essential.

I don't know why I got involved in a hobby that requires math...

Incidentally, it is now legal to use a calculator on the ACT. Needless to
say, this royally pissed me off because they made this momentous decision
two years after I took it, without one. I probably could have got into
Harvard if they'd let me use a calculator. (Not that I could have afforded
it.)
Message no. 11
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:30:53 -0400
At 12.03 07-13-99 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay. For starters, I can't do math. Never have been. I missed the day when
<snip>
>However, I understand the theories of math. Ask me about the Ring Theory of

Is the problem caused by the reversal or misidentification of numbers?

If so, sounds very famliar. It may be discalculia (sp, but the phonetics
should be close). It is sorta-kinda like dyslexia, but it only effects
that part of the brain that does math, or that is how it was described to
me.

>I don't know why I got involved in a hobby that requires math...

Hell, my course of study at college has what amounts to a dual minor in
math and electronics, and the rest of it is programming and hardware
design. There is nothing worse than spending thrity minutes on a problem,
and then realising that is crappola because you copied a 2 from the book as
a 5 in the first step, and went downhill from there.


CyberRaven
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"
Message no. 12
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:17:52 -0500
> At 12.03 07-13-99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Okay. For starters, I can't do math. Never have been. I missed the day
> when
> <snip>
> >However, I understand the theories of math. Ask me about the Ring Theory
> of
>
> Is the problem caused by the reversal or misidentification of
> numbers?
>
No. I have heard of this as well and checked into it (Hoping there was a
government grant in it for college) but I don't have that. I see the numbers
fine. I know what they represent. I just add them wrong.

> If so, sounds very famliar. It may be discalculia (sp, but the
> phonetics
> should be close). It is sorta-kinda like dyslexia, but it only effects
> that part of the brain that does math, or that is how it was described to
> me.
>
Message no. 13
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: [Quite OT] the value of education (OT-rant, long)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 99 15:16:29 +700
>According to Wordman, at 14:52 on 12 Jul 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> "Columbus discovered American in 1492, which means that the 6 million people

>> who were there at the time didn't know where they were."
>> - Prof. Joyce (Mayan Archeology)

One wonders then about the other 294 million who were just a little further
inland...
Or somesuch.
Estimates of precolumbian 'First-Nations' populations for all of the Americas
are around 300 million. Today it's around 30 million, with only 1 million in
the USA.

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