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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: R2 and damage
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:42:12 -0300
Ok... Sorry to bring this up again... But this time it's a little
different. I took a long hard look at the R2 (and I don't have the page #
because I'm at work).. on the page where it says Riggers take a 6M or 6S
phys based on vehicle damage it DOES NOT imply that this is caused by the
jack interface. Think about this one...Your car gets physically mangled.
Don't you think you might shake a bit like an egg in a blender? Also, the
rules are very unclear about the distinction between a passenger and a RiC.
Is a RiC a passenger? If not then the damage to passenger rules do not
apply and the rule makes perfect sense. If he is a passenger then I would
say it is grossly unfair that he gets hit with a 6S +plus+ the damage from
the incident. My ruling....The rigger is aware of the vehicles actions and
how it gets tossed around from the wreck...His body moves more in tune with
it and he is able to ride it out much more effectively. When you add in the
appropriate modifiers (APPS, etc), the rigger is relatively protected in the
vehicle. More so than a passenger who is _not_ intuitively aware of how the
car is going....It's kinda like in Judo....If you know _how_ to fall and
land properly you are at far less risk than if you just fly and flop. Lemme
know what you think on this spin of it... My new thought is that the ASIST
feedback is only Stun...and only from dump shock, drone dest, etc...

.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-
._
Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke
Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous
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version:3.1
GAT d@ S++:+ a-- c++++(++$) US>++ P+ L E- W+(--) N+ o-- K- w(--) O- M-- V
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t(+) 5+++ X+ R++ tv+ b+++ DI++++ D+ G+ e>++ h---- r+++
y++++*
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Message no. 2
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: R2 and damage
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:58:06 EST
> Ok... Sorry to bring this up again... But this time it's a little
> different. I took a long hard look at the R2 (and I don't have the
> page # because I'm at work).. on the page where it says Riggers take
> a 6M or 6S phys based on vehicle damage it DOES NOT imply that this
> is caused by the jack interface. Think about this one...Your car
> gets physically mangled. Don't you think you might shake a bit like
> an egg in a blender? Also, the rules are very unclear about the

Sadly, the rigger takes damage as a passenger, WITH a +2 (or +3, I
forget) to his body because his mind is elsewhere. Sorry, your idea
doesn't hold up. Besides, why would he take a definite 6M/S when
other passengers deal with it based on speed? You gave an argument
for why he would take less....but not why he would take more.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 3
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: R2 and damage
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:52:37 -0300
>Sadly, the rigger takes damage as a passenger, WITH a +2 (or +3, I
>forget) to his body because his mind is elsewhere. Sorry, your idea
>doesn't hold up. Besides, why would he take a definite 6M/S when
>other passengers deal with it based on speed? You gave an argument
>for why he would take less....but not why he would take more.
>-=SwiftOne=-

The +2 or +3 modifier applies to attacks made directly against the Rigger.
This was the only place I could find where it mentioned the RiC also
counting as a passenger. However, if you look elsewhere you will find that
anytime the vehicle takes damage, passengers are also required to resist
damage. It isn't just during a crash. Again I feel that the rigger
_should_ have an easier time resisting damage ie... a 6M base for a serious
attack instead of some weapon power/damage level combo the passenger faces.
It makes perfect sense that the rigger is more vulnerable to direct attacks
against his body because he isn't aware of his body. Crashing damage is
speed related IIRC. If it isn't serious or deadly though, does the rigger
take damage? Also, as to the penalty....How often does an attack with a
power of 5 or less manage to cause serious damage to a vehicle? Most
weapons with a power that low would have a hell of a time punching through
vehicle armor...even with APDS. As the rigger I'd prefer the 6M/S over what
the rest of the passengers will face most of the time. After looking at it
again, my thoughts are this: The rigger does not face damage like a
passenger does _unless_ the rule specifically mentions riggers. Hence,
direct attacks on a rigger gain a + to the target number. Normal crashes
and attacks on the vehicle do not affect the rigger unless they pass the S
threshold.


.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-
._
Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke
Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous
----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
version:3.1
GAT d@ S++:+ a-- c++++(++$) US>++ P+ L E- W+(--) N+ o-- K- w(--) O- M-- V
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t(+) 5+++ X+ R++ tv+ b+++ DI++++ D+ G+ e>++ h---- r+++
y++++*
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------
Message no. 4
From: Wind Dancer <winddancer@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: R2 and damage
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:31:23 -0400
At 02:42 PM 10/20/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Ok... Sorry to bring this up again... But this time it's a little
>different. I took a long hard look at the R2 (and I don't have the page #
>because I'm at work).. on the page where it says Riggers take a 6M or 6S
>phys based on vehicle damage it DOES NOT imply that this is caused by the
>jack interface. Think about this one...Your car gets physically mangled.
>Don't you think you might shake a bit like an egg in a blender? Also, the
>rules are very unclear about the distinction between a passenger and a RiC.
>Is a RiC a passenger? If not then the damage to passenger rules do not
>apply and the rule makes perfect sense. If he is a passenger then I would
>say it is grossly unfair that he gets hit with a 6S +plus+ the damage from
>the incident. My ruling....The rigger is aware of the vehicles actions and
>how it gets tossed around from the wreck...His body moves more in tune with
>it and he is able to ride it out much more effectively. When you add in the
>appropriate modifiers (APPS, etc), the rigger is relatively protected in the
>vehicle. More so than a passenger who is _not_ intuitively aware of how the
>car is going....It's kinda like in Judo....If you know _how_ to fall and
>land properly you are at far less risk than if you just fly and flop. Lemme
>know what you think on this spin of it... My new thought is that the ASIST
>feedback is only Stun...and only from dump shock, drone dest, etc...

But it states on page 49 that whenever a vehicle sustains serious or
Destroyed damage, the rigger takes damage. It doesn't specify that this is
from Either an atack or a crash. So how is the DMG recieved when the
vehicle is hit by weapon transfer to the rigger in theory.
Message no. 5
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: R2 and damage
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:53:29 -0300
>But it states on page 49 that whenever a vehicle sustains serious or
>Destroyed damage, the rigger takes damage. It doesn't specify that this is
>from Either an atack or a crash. So how is the DMG recieved when the
>vehicle is hit by weapon transfer to the rigger in theory.
>

By physical, external jarring, crushing, burning, piercing or other such
trauma.

.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-
._
Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke
Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous
----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
version:3.1
GAT d@ S++:+ a-- c++++(++$) US>++ P+ L E- W+(--) N+ o-- K- w(--) O- M-- V
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t(+) 5+++ X+ R++ tv+ b+++ DI++++ D+ G+ e>++ h---- r+++
y++++*
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------

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