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Message no. 1
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 08:31:54 -0500
Ok,

While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even suggesting
this..

For me Shadowrun has never been just "cyberpunk." It is a perfect blend of
fantasy and science fiction. We have cyberware/bioware, chemistry, and
firearms... the magic of technology. We have spirits, wards, and spells...
the magic of fantasy. We have the matrix, and the astral. It seems a
perfect blend in almost every way.

My only wish is that this blend of the two worlds might also be seen in the
races that one might play. Elves, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves (and all
meta-variants) all have strong backgrounds in the world of fantasy. I have
heard argues that the Otaku and Cyber-zombie are the races of technology.
While I might accept the Otaku (even though they can be of any actual race)
I do not see the cyber-zombie as a true choice of character race.

I would like (but do not demand or expect) some more science fiction based,
player character, races. Although even I, the one making this suggestion,
am at a loss as to what exactly would fit the bill and still allow the game
to retain it's flavor and intensity.

Some of my ideas have been...
Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be done
without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and beyond or
that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other concept would be
some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some sort.. however I
don't know that that concept totally fits either..

Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a "nanite
virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host partially into a
mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on a pile of comic
books right before coming up with that idea..)

Anyhow you get the picture.. I would love to see any other ideas, or some
fleshing out of one of the above. In any case, thank you for entertaining
my rant. :)


--Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.

"Teardrops on canvas and a tortured artist screams. Broken brushes and
muddled paints are all that's left of summer dreams..."
Message no. 2
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:06:55 -0500
Ok,

While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even suggesting
this..

For me Shadowrun has never been just "cyberpunk." It is a perfect blend of
fantasy and science fiction. We have cyberware/bioware, chemistry, and
firearms... the magic of technology. We have spirits, wards, and spells...
the magic of fantasy. We have the matrix, and the astral. It seems a
perfect blend in almost every way.

My only wish is that this blend of the two worlds might also be seen in the
races that one might play. Elves, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves (and all
meta-variants) all have strong backgrounds in the world of fantasy. I have
heard argues that the Otaku and Cyber-zombie are the races of technology.
While I might accept the Otaku (even though they can be of any actual race)
I do not see the cyber-zombie as a true choice of character race.

I would like (but do not demand or expect) some more science fiction based,
player character, races. Although even I, the one making this suggestion,
am at a loss as to what exactly would fit the bill and still allow the game
to retain it's flavor and intensity.

Some of my ideas have been...
Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be done
without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and beyond or
that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other concept would be
some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some sort.. however I
don't know that that concept totally fits either..

Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a "nanite
virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host partially into a
mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on a pile of comic
books right before coming up with that idea..)

Anyhow you get the picture.. I would love to see any other ideas, or some
fleshing out of one of the above. In any case, thank you for entertaining
my rant. :)


--Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.

"Teardrops on canvas and a tortured artist screams. Broken brushes and
muddled paints are all that's left of summer dreams..."
Message no. 3
From: Mr. Zook zook@*********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:37:37 +0100
On 7 Dec 99, at 7:06, Aristotle wrote:

> Ok,
>
> While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even
> suggesting this..

Nonono. I like your ideas, really.

[..]
> Some of my ideas have been...
> Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be
> done without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Hard to manage, IMO. I cannot imagine, that we get in contact with an
alien race in the next seventy years. maybe because I don't want to.
But you have to explain it very good. Furthermore, and that's true
for all new races, you have to balance them out with the 'normal'
ones. And in a classical view of things, aliens often are superior to
the human race.

>
> Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
> genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and
> beyond or that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other
> concept would be some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of
> some sort.. however I don't know that that concept totally fits
> either..

The tanks are a very cool idea, IMHO. And, if you take a look on
dolly and other clones and the like, they seem not very improbable to
me.

>
> Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a
> "nanite virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host
> partially into a mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen
> asleep on a pile of comic books right before coming up with that
> idea..)

What a cool idea! Really, I like it very much! This nanite-virus
should eat your essence at a very slow rate (0.01 per month?). And
the implantation of cyberware would speed-up the process of
conversion. Maybe there could be a sort of bioware which is able to
stop this process... But what's waiting at the end? An emotionless,
numb sort of human-shaped robot? A dead piece of high-tech? No, I
couldn't imagine that the nanite-virus would consume the body to kill
it in the end.

[..]

a very euphoric (about the last one)

Mr.Z


--
Mr.Z, freelancing businessman
Specialist for redistributing foreign capital
Message no. 4
From: Iridios iridios@*****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:00:41 -0500
Aristotle wrote:
>
> Ok,
>
> While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even suggesting
> this..

<snip>

> I would like (but do not demand or expect) some more science fiction based,
> player character, races. Although even I, the one making this suggestion,
> am at a loss as to what exactly would fit the bill and still allow the game
> to retain it's flavor and intensity.
>
> Some of my ideas have been...
> Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be done
> without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Considering that the majority of the populations of earth are still
human, the meta-races would be viewed as fairly alien (I know you
meant extraterrestial). There would be plenty of humans who have
never met an elf or troll, only seen them on trideo. Introducing ETs
on a large scale would be difficult, IMO.

>
> Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
> genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and beyond or
> that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.)

The gengineered race in Sea Quest were "Daggers" (I cannot recall
their official designation). They were bred initially for combat, but
then deemed too uncontrolable.

> ...The other concept would be
> some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some sort.. however I
> don't know that that concept totally fits either..
>
> Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a "nanite
> virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host partially into a
> mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on a pile of comic
> books right before coming up with that idea..)

Your machine people concept seems to describe anyone who has been
heavily modified by cybernetics. And, IMO, this is where the
technological flavor for characters can be gotten. Which is stranger,
a robot (machine built to fulfill specific functions) or a man who has
decided to chop off his legs and get a pair of "Kid Stealth"
cyberlegs!

>
> Anyhow you get the picture.. I would love to see any other ideas, or some
> fleshing out of one of the above. In any case, thank you for entertaining
> my rant. :)

Anytime

--
Iridios
"Accept what you cannot avoid,
Avoid what you cannot accept."
Message no. 5
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:37:08 -0500
Iridios wrote:

> > Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a "nanite
> > virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host partially into a
> > mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on a pile of comic
> > books right before coming up with that idea..)
>

Check out an Alternity sourcebook. I've fooled around with the idea of trying to
find a valid reason why the tech-interface race (argh, don't have book here!!!)
would exist in SR. They're just too cool.

Wildfire (sometimes with a DC)
Terminally Behind SOTA
---
www.nexusgate.freeservers.com/Shadowrun
Play with the Target Number Calculator!
Message no. 6
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:47:23 -0600
> Ok,
>
> While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for
> even suggesting
> this..
>
> For me Shadowrun has never been just "cyberpunk." It is a
> perfect blend of
> fantasy and science fiction. We have cyberware/bioware,
> chemistry, and
> firearms... the magic of technology. We have spirits,
> wards, and spells...
> the magic of fantasy. We have the matrix, and the astral. It seems a
> perfect blend in almost every way.
>
> My only wish is that this blend of the two worlds might
> also be seen in the
> races that one might play. Elves, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves (and all
> meta-variants) all have strong backgrounds in the world of
> fantasy. I have
> heard argues that the Otaku and Cyber-zombie are the races
> of technology.
> While I might accept the Otaku (even though they can be of
> any actual race)
> I do not see the cyber-zombie as a true choice of character race.
>
> I would like (but do not demand or expect) some more
> science fiction based,
> player character, races. Although even I, the one making
> this suggestion,
> am at a loss as to what exactly would fit the bill and
> still allow the game
> to retain it's flavor and intensity.
>
> Some of my ideas have been...
> Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would
> have to be done
> without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

I think there is a TV show where the Roswell crash stranded some
aliens on earth. They live in a hidden enclave and they look pretty
human and have superpowers. Or you could do the "Alien Nation"
background story. Both ideas are basically to crash some human
looking aliens into the earth. This also keeps alien high tech off
the planet as it all goes up in the crash.

>
> Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
> genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth:
> Above and beyond or
> that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other
> concept would be
> some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some
> sort.. however I
> don't know that that concept totally fits either..

There are other possibilities. In S. Andrew Swann's trilogy there are
two kinds of artificially created races. The first are the moreau
create from animal stock and are genetically engineered into
animalistic humanoids. There were dogs, tigers, and even a rabbit.
The other kind were called frankensteins, basic humans genetically
modified with special abilities like low-light eyes and the such.
Basically they have bioware built in naturally. There is another set
of books by Daniel Keys Moran that has the same things. There were a
cat-like humanoid race (briefly mentioned in the first book) and a
superhuman kind. The superhuman kind had psychic abilities, except
for the last one who was a super decker. In both set of books the
synthetics were created by governments to be soldiers and agents.
Basically the government uses genetic manipulation to create a soldier
race. Animals are used so that can be denied right and humans are use
because it is easier to hide them. There are many other books with
artificially created races, David Brin's Uplift books, Bruce
Sterling's Schismatrix, Steve Perry's albinos and muls from his
Matador books, Dave Gerrold's Morthans from the Starwolf books, S. M.
Stirling's Darkas, Heinlein's Friday, Nancy Kress's Sleepless, Holly
Lisle's nanite created vampires in Hunting the Corrigan's Blood and
many more I have forgotten or haven't read yet.

>
> Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea
> of a "nanite
> virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host
> partially into a
> mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on
> a pile of comic
> books right before coming up with that idea..)

Steve Jackson Games has a book out similar to this. The nanite virus
gives those infected super powers, (kind of).


>
> Anyhow you get the picture.. I would love to see any other
> ideas, or some
> fleshing out of one of the above. In any case, thank you
> for entertaining
> my rant. :)
>
>
> --Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.
>
> "Teardrops on canvas and a tortured artist screams. Broken
> brushes and
> muddled paints are all that's left of summer dreams..."
>
>
Message no. 7
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:05:48 -0600
> > Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea
> > of a "nanite
> > virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host
> > partially into a
> > mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on
> > a pile of comic
> > books right before coming up with that idea..)
>
> Steve Jackson Games has a book out similar to this. The
> nanite virus
> gives those infected super powers, (kind of).
>
I made a mistake here it is R. Talsonian Games "Cyber Generation" book
for their Cyberpunk game.

Mike
Message no. 8
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:37:35 EST
In a message dated 12/7/99 7:38:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zook@*********.net writes:

> > Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a
> > "nanite virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host
> > partially into a mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen
> > asleep on a pile of comic books right before coming up with that
> > idea..)
>
> What a cool idea! Really, I like it very much! This nanite-virus
> should eat your essence at a very slow rate (0.01 per month?). And
> the implantation of cyberware would speed-up the process of
> conversion. Maybe there could be a sort of bioware which is able to
> stop this process... But what's waiting at the end? An emotionless,
> numb sort of human-shaped robot? A dead piece of high-tech? No, I
> couldn't imagine that the nanite-virus would consume the body to kill
> it in the end.
>

I'm writing an adventure now that has a smuggling crew transporting a
mysterious cargo that turns out to be such a "nanite virus" (good term for
it, thanks). It gets loose aboard the T-bird, and infects the rigger.

What happens is, the rigger and his machine become merged. The rigger has
forgotten he's human, and the machine has become so entwined with his
personality that it takes on a kind of awareness of its own.

This new creature detects the other runners on board, and jettisons the
hostiles. From there, it infects other machines (but it can only work on
riggers jacked in).

This happens in a limited scope, though. I really don't feel like having my
players go through "Maximum Overdrive". Basically, it's all to realize a
dream I had recently, of flocks of helos and t-birds flying like migratory
birds, with visions of the cocooned riggers inside who had forgotten they
were human. (That last bit plays heavily on my affection for the shadow
vessels from B5 and their human pilots.)







-Twist



"We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
"Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."
Message no. 9
From: Andrew Norman andrew_norman@******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 16:13:52 +0000
Twist0059@***.com wrote:
>
> I'm writing an adventure now that has a smuggling crew transporting a
> mysterious cargo that turns out to be such a "nanite virus" (good term for
> it, thanks). It gets loose aboard the T-bird, and infects the rigger.
>
> What happens is, the rigger and his machine become merged. The rigger has
> forgotten he's human, and the machine has become so entwined with his
> personality that it takes on a kind of awareness of its own.
>
> This new creature detects the other runners on board, and jettisons the
> hostiles. From there, it infects other machines (but it can only work on
> riggers jacked in).
>
> This happens in a limited scope, though. I really don't feel like having my
> players go through "Maximum Overdrive". Basically, it's all to realize a
> dream I had recently, of flocks of helos and t-birds flying like migratory
> birds, with visions of the cocooned riggers inside who had forgotten they
> were human. (That last bit plays heavily on my affection for the shadow
> vessels from B5 and their human pilots.)

<B5 Mode>
Neat, at last someone else who finds shadow tech cool. I was just
wondering
how you are going to get the scream when the machine "wakes up". And if
you
go for this wou need to have a NPC say "In Dunkies name its awake".
</B5 Mode>

-Andrew

--
"Politics and morality on the same side! That doesn't happen every day"
-Londo (B5)

"These are my opinions and not those of my employer"
Message no. 10
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:11:39 EST
In a message dated 12/7/99 11:03:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
andrew_norman@******.com writes:

> <B5 Mode>
> Neat, at last someone else who finds shadow tech cool. I was just
> wondering
> how you are going to get the scream when the machine "wakes up". And if
> you
> go for this wou need to have a NPC say "In Dunkies name its awake".
> </B5 Mode>


:-)

On a different scale, how about the telepaths they used in the final battle
for Earth, the ones they stored aboard the Omegas, who would wake up and take
over the ship by merging with it?

Could you have a carrier of a nanite virus enter a vehicle (or get close to
any machine) and begin merging with it, basically creating a dedicated
hardwired VCR? Sure, you could do the same thing with a rigger and a true
VCR, but these infiltrators could be programmed for war, with no free choice.






-Twist
"We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
"Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."
Message no. 11
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:16:00 -0800
There are the superhuman Draka from S.M. Stirling (think a human with every
piece of bioware part of his natural body AND a biological Move By Wire 5 or
6. And they all have microminiaturized cranial cyberdecks (well so do the
Samarkands..)

ONE Draka almost managed to take over a world modelled after our own
present-day one.

They greated the Ghouloon, which from the bokos were a combination of human,
wolf, baboon and who knows what else. About the same size as a Troll,
covered in fur with a wolf-like head. NASTY.

There is a compilation of the books called The Domination now available at
your friendly bookstores.

Ken

"If some unemployed punk in New Jersey can get a casette to make love to
Elle McPherson for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to make crack
look like Sanka."
-Dennis Miller
Message no. 12
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:48:24 CST
>Check out an Alternity sourcebook. I've fooled around with the idea
>of trying to find a valid reason why the tech-interface race(argh,
>don't have book here!!!) would exist in SR. They're just too cool.
>Wildfire (sometimes with a DC)
>Terminally Behind SOTA

Mechalus is the word that you're looking for. And I think that the Otaku are
probably the closest that SR is going to get. Direct, non-support needed
neural interface with the machine.

Mmmmm.

Grim Shear
"These guys are just freaking me out man!"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 13
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:39:56 +0100
According to Aristotle, at 7:06 on 7 Dec 99, the word on the street was...

> Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be done
> without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Which is extremely difficult... Aliens from outer space in SR means the
world suddenly gets access to much higher technology, even if only for
deep-space travel, than it currently has. This would seriously alter the
whole setting.

One way to go about it would be to make them a bit like the kergillians in
Over The Edge -- i.e., infiltrating society without letting anyone know
about their presence. But that would still change the world radically if
they would be exposed. OTOH, if exposed they could claim to be some
magical race (even though the players, and possibly PCs, know better) that
has recently Awakened.

> Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
> genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and beyond or
> that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other concept would be
> some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some sort.. however I
> don't know that that concept totally fits either..

Given that SR books claim AIs can only be created with the amount of
processing power available in something like the Renraku Arcology, putting
one in a body is a bit far-fetched IMHO. It could be done by letting the
AI sit in a network of supercomputers, and remote-control the body,
though. This could become more interesting by giving the AI access to
multiple bodies, perhaps all of them looking the same...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:15:06 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:47:23 -0600 "Michael Coleman"
<mscoleman@********.net> writes:
<SNIP>
> I think there is a TV show where the Roswell crash stranded some
> aliens on earth. They live in a hidden enclave and they look pretty
> human and have superpowers.
<SNIP>

The show is called, oddly enough, "Roswell". :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 15
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:12:52 -0800
On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:37:08 -0500 Wildfire <Wildfire@*************.com>
writes:
<SNIP>
> Check out an Alternity sourcebook. I've fooled around with the idea
> of trying to
> find a valid reason why the tech-interface race (argh, don't have
> book here!!!)
> would exist in SR. They're just too cool.

A corporate experiment to create the ultimate techno-spy (ie, can
interface with anything.)?

DISCALAIMER: Having never seen anything about the race, I have no idea if
the above appropriate. :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 16
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:06:34 -0800
On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:06:55 -0500 Aristotle <aristotle@********.net>
writes:
> Ok,
>
> While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even
suggesting
> this..
<SNIP>
> Some of my ideas have been...
> Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be
done
> without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

Wait. There have been implications of alien life (current or past) in
previous sourcebooks and you might get your wish here. Possibly even with
the upcoming Year of the Comet. However, -IF- aliens are introduced any
time soon, I wouldn't expect them to be officially available as PCs any
time soon...

> Synthetics: I've got two schools of thought here. The first would be
> genetically engineered beings (i.e. "Tanks" from Earth: Above and
beyond or
> that race that was used for labor in Sea Quest.) The other concept
would be
> some sort of robotic construct that hosts an AI of some sort.. however
I
> don't know that that concept totally fits either..

Well. You could say that "x" character I just made is actually clone. You
don't need game mechanics to be of a different "race".

> Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a "nanite
> virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host partially
into a
> mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen asleep on a pile of
comic
> books right before coming up with that idea..)
<SNIP>

You mean turn them into cyberzombies? ;)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 17
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:50:44 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:05:48 -0600 "Michael Coleman"
<mscoleman@********.net> writes:
<SNIP>
> I made a mistake here it is R. Talsonian Games "Cyber Generation" book
> for their Cyberpunk game.

I quickly glanced at that and quickly put it back. Bleh. Cyberpunk meets
Brand X Superhero Game (sorta). Bleh.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 18
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:48:12 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:39:56 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to Aristotle, at 7:06 on 7 Dec 99, the word on the street
> was...
> > Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be
done
> > without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.

> Which is extremely difficult... Aliens from outer space in SR means the

> world suddenly gets access to much higher technology, even if only for
> deep-space travel, than it currently has. This would seriously alter
the
> whole setting.
<SNIP>

Not neccesarily. If the Aliens come to us, and do it in a large version
of their equivelant of the shuttles that we ("we" in 2060) use. There
would be no new tech per se, but perhaps a new perspective on tech that
may lead to some joint innovations in technology over the following
years.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 19
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:26:17 -0500
From: <dghost@****.com>


> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:06:55 -0500 Aristotle <aristotle@********.net>
> writes:
> > Ok,
> >
> > While I fully expect to get screamed at at some point for even
> suggesting
> > this..
> <SNIP>
> > Some of my ideas have been...
> > Aliens: I know you have heard that one already. It would have to be
> done
> > without upsetting the world of Shadowrun.
>
> Wait. There have been implications of alien life (current or past) in
> previous sourcebooks and you might get your wish here. Possibly even with
> the upcoming Year of the Comet. However, -IF- aliens are introduced any
> time soon, I wouldn't expect them to be officially available as PCs any
> time soon...

If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens become
valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck, with a
rope.
Message no. 20
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:33:03 -0800
From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>

> If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens become
> valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck, with
a
> rope.

What if they drop in more races from Earthdawn? The windlings, t'skrang and
obsidimen are pretty alien to me ;)

Hmm..would be pretty hard to get obsidimen cybernetics...

Ken

"If some unemployed punk in New Jersey can get a casette to make love to
Elle McPherson for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to make crack
look like Sanka."
-Dennis Miller
Message no. 21
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:08:30 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:26:17 -0500 "abortion_engine"
<abortion_engine@*******.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens
become
> valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck,
with a
> rope.

Do you Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets? The Mars photographs
(taken with a mars rover, IIRC, by NASA before being bought out by Ares.)
in that book show pyramid constructs.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 22
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:05:58 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:33:03 -0800 "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
writes:
> From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
>
> > If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If
> aliens become
> > valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the
> neck, with
> a
> > rope.
>
> What if they drop in more races from Earthdawn? The windlings, t'skrang
and
> obsidimen are pretty alien to me ;)
>
> Hmm..would be pretty hard to get obsidimen cybernetics...

IIRC, Mike already said that wouldn't happen while he was DLOH; "They
didn't survive the mana downtime" (or something; paraphrase, not quote.)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 23
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:03:07 -0500
From: "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>


> From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
>
> > If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens
become
> > valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck,
with
> a
> > rope.
>
> What if they drop in more races from Earthdawn? The windlings, t'skrang
and
> obsidimen are pretty alien to me ;)

If they start [slowly] introducing the ED races, I will kiss Mike Mulvihill
on the lips. Well, no, I suppose I'll buy him flowers and take him out on
the town; after all, I hardly even know him. :)

Seriously; there's little that would make me happier.

There's a big difference in realism between space aliens and an
already-established background for the world.

> Hmm..would be pretty hard to get obsidimen cybernetics...

Checks and balances. Gotta love 'em.

Windling cybernetics? Heh. Talk about difficulties and possibilities.
Message no. 24
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:07:53 -0500
From: <dghost@****.com>


> On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:26:17 -0500 "abortion_engine"
> <abortion_engine@*******.com> writes:
> <SNIP>
> > If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens
> become
> > valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck,
> with a
> > rope.
>
> Do you Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets? The Mars photographs
> (taken with a mars rover, IIRC, by NASA before being bought out by Ares.)
> in that book show pyramid constructs.

Yes, yes they do. And bones.

And I don't think those are alien. I think they're very much from Earth. But
very, very old.
Message no. 25
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:01:29 -0600
:On 7 Dec 99, at 7:06, Aristotle wrote:

:> Machine People: (God don't shoot me for this one) The idea of a
:> "nanite virus" of some sort that infects and transforms it's host
:> partially into a mechanical/robotic construct. (I may have fallen
:> asleep on a pile of comic books right before coming up with that
:> idea..)
:
:What a cool idea! Really, I like it very much! This nanite-virus

:a very euphoric (about the last one)
:
:Mr.Z


Check out "cybergenration" for the CP system. IT is a HUGE chage to the
game world; Cybereneration is basically a different game, with its own core
rule book and supplements.
Spoiler for Cybergeneration readers / players



Ok, that's enough space... :)
The carbon plauge is a nanite engineered by an AI. It does prety much what
you mention, except it just transorms folks into one of several (maybe 7)
"architypes", giving them set abilities. It does not reduce humanity rating
(CP's meassure of cyber impact), but it does affect what cyber (if any) its
victims can get, since parts of your body (nervous sytem included) are no
longer flesh.

Mongoose
Message no. 26
From: Shane Hyde chaff.editor@*****.net.nz
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 10:20:27 +1300
>If they start [slowly] introducing the ED races, I will kiss Mike Mulvihill
>on the lips. Well, no, I suppose I'll buy him flowers and take him out on
>the town; after all, I hardly even know him. :)

Gotta wonder about the mars constructs and dragonbones etc. IS the ED
world set on Earth? Really? We're just assuming it is. Maybe the red
planet resulted from the scourge?

Shane
Message no. 27
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:07:31 -0800
From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
> If they start [slowly] introducing the ED races, I will kiss Mike
Mulvihill
> on the lips. Well, no, I suppose I'll buy him flowers and take him out on
> the town; after all, I hardly even know him. :)

Hahah!

> Seriously; there's little that would make me happier.

Question: I've not received my Magic in the Shadows book yet...have they
ported over anything from Earthdawn in the new edition? I'm a HUGE fan of
blood magic in ED and was wondering if they fleshed it out any from what was
mentioned in the Atzlan book.

And if not, K mentioned he had a Earthdawn-->Shadowrun conversion. Maybe a
mugging is in order? :)

> There's a big difference in realism between space aliens and an
> already-established background for the world.

Heh. I'll take it you meant to say "plausibility" and not realism :)

I'll choke if I see aliens in SR, or even blatant hints that they are around
(the pyramids on Mars was bad enough!!)

Evil Thought: Now that the Horrors have been kicked out maybe the "new" Evil
Overlords Coming To Destry Us All are aliens? :) Aliens are mentioned in the
Cyberpirates book after all...

> > Hmm..would be pretty hard to get obsidimen cybernetics...
>
> Checks and balances. Gotta love 'em.

People think troll borgs are bad enough...an obsidimen cyberzombie would be
absolutely scary!

> Windling cybernetics? Heh. Talk about difficulties and possibilities.

Well it's a good thing they developed nanites!

Ken

"If some unemployed punk in New Jersey can get a casette to make love to
Elle McPherson for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to make crack
look like Sanka."
-Dennis Miller
Message no. 28
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:18:36 -0800
From: Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
> Gotta wonder about the mars constructs and dragonbones etc. IS the ED
> world set on Earth? Really? We're just assuming it is. Maybe the red
> planet resulted from the scourge?

It's made QUITE clear that ED takes place on earth. If not just from the
geography but from the sourcebooks (Theran sourcebook especially rips off
various historical eras). Not to mention that they have "found" Thera again
(Cyberpirates touches on this as well as Threats I believe). Heck the
Therans even have airships flying around the Bermuda Triangle still if you
believe the shadowpost in Cyberpirates (though I can't STAND the
clue-by-four method of smacking you with "secrets" in that book).

Who KNOWS what is on Mars. That was when ED was still part of the storyline,
now that its dead who knows what FASA has warped the connection into...maybe
its where the celestial dragons "came from the stars". ;) That's just my
theory though..

Ken

"If some unemployed punk in New Jersey can get a casette to make love to
Elle McPherson for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to make crack
look like Sanka."
-Dennis Miller

> Shane
Message no. 29
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:34:02 -0500
From: "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>


> From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
><snip>
> > There's a big difference in realism between space aliens and an
> > already-established background for the world.
>
> Heh. I'll take it you meant to say "plausibility" and not realism :)

"Internal consistency" would be best.
Message no. 30
From: Shane Hyde chaff.editor@*****.net.nz
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 10:39:27 +1300
>Who KNOWS what is on Mars. That was when ED was still part of the storyline,
>now that its dead who knows what FASA has warped the connection into...maybe
>its where the celestial dragons "came from the stars".

Not a lot of atmosphere for them to flap their wings in... ;-)

Is ED no longer part of the storyline just 'coz the game-line has been
discontinued. SR came first and [elsewhere] someone mentioned that what's
going on now has been in FASA'a books for a loooong time.

I guess ED was just a SR spin-off that didn't work. Happens in television
all the time. Look at Star-Trek ;-)

PS Sorry. Too many smiley doohikeys ;-)

Shane
Message no. 31
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:35:33 -0500
From: "Shane Hyde" <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
> >If they start [slowly] introducing the ED races, I will kiss Mike
Mulvihill
> >on the lips. Well, no, I suppose I'll buy him flowers and take him out on
> >the town; after all, I hardly even know him. :)
>
> Gotta wonder about the mars constructs and dragonbones etc. IS the ED
> world set on Earth? Really? We're just assuming it is. Maybe the red
> planet resulted from the scourge?

ED is on Earth. That's established fact.
Message no. 32
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:59:47 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 03:39 PM
Subject: Re: Races of Technology.


<snip>

> Is ED no longer part of the storyline just 'coz the game-line has
been
> discontinued. SR came first and [elsewhere] someone mentioned that
what's
> going on now has been in FASA'a books for a loooong time.
>
> I guess ED was just a SR spin-off that didn't work. Happens in
television
> all the time. Look at Star-Trek ;-)
>


O'kay,
The short version. Earthdawn was Fasa's attempt at a fantasy
world. When it didn't go over, they decided to link it to Shadowrun in
the hopes the SR fans would start buying it. This lead to alot of
immortal elves and horror related material in SR.
By the time Mike took SR over, it was impossible to do anything
scary in SR, because everyone just said "Oh, its another Horror thing"
instead of letting SR have its scary unkown side. Mike didn't like
this, so he axed the connection (everything already done is still
canon, but no new stuff will be added).

Mockingbird
Message no. 33
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:50:21 -0800
On Wed, 8 Dec 99 10:20:27 +1300 Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
writes:
<SNIP>
> Gotta wonder about the mars constructs and dragonbones etc. IS the ED
> world set on Earth? Really? We're just assuming it is. Maybe the red
> planet resulted from the scourge?

It could be tha Mars had a parallel history; parrallel but shifted. What
"we" ("we" in 2060) are experienced happened to Mars a LONG time ago.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 34
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:02:26 -0800
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:59:47 -0600 "Mockingbird"
<mockingbird@*********.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> O'kay,
> The short version. Earthdawn was Fasa's attempt at a fantasy
> world. When it didn't go over, they decided to link it to Shadowrun in
> the hopes the SR fans would start buying it. This lead to alot of
> immortal elves and horror related material in SR.

Uhm. Nope. The "connection" was there from there. As I understand it, the
creators of ED created ED because they thought it'd be cool to play in
SR's past.

> By the time Mike took SR over, it was impossible to do anything
> scary in SR, because everyone just said "Oh, its another Horror thing"
> instead of letting SR have its scary unkown side. Mike didn't like
> this, so he axed the connection (everything already done is still
> canon, but no new stuff will be added).

It may have been that the "connection" was compounded upon as development
on the two product lines continued. The first hint of Horrors in SR hit
the shelves well before ED. I think Harlequin, and perhaps Ehran as well,
preceeded ED.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 35
From: Shane Hyde chaff.editor@*****.net.nz
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 12:13:45 +1300
>It may have been that the "connection" was compounded upon as development
>on the two product lines continued. The first hint of Horrors in SR hit
>the shelves well before ED. I think Harlequin, and perhaps Ehran as well,
>preceeded ED.

Bottled Demon definitely did. Harlequinn [the adventure] did. The
existence of Great Dragons and what it says in the SRII critters glossary
about them 'sleeping during the periods of low mana' or something like
that is one of the other [more indirect] indicaters.

Shane
Message no. 36
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:04:06 -0800
On Wed, 8 Dec 99 12:13:45 +1300 Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
writes:
> >It may have been that the "connection" was compounded upon as
development
> >on the two product lines continued. The first hint of Horrors in SR
hit
> >the shelves well before ED. I think Harlequin, and perhaps Ehran as
well,
> >preceeded ED.

> Bottled Demon definitely did. Harlequinn [the adventure] did. The
> existence of Great Dragons and what it says in the SRII critters
glossary
> about them 'sleeping during the periods of low mana' or something like
> that is one of the other [more indirect] indicaters.

Ya know... it's hard to tell what you mean. Do you mean all those things
preceeded ED or that all those things compounded on the connection? :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 37
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:54:25 CST
>DISCALAIMER: Having never seen anything about the race, I have no idea if
>the above appropriate. :)
>D. Ghost

That could work. For those don't know, the Mechalus are a race of
Cyber-Organics. They are born with some cyber. Some internal head-ware
(computer, data-slots to use programs) and something like skill wires.

They can also directly interface with computers. If they can get any sort
of access to a system (even if its just wires connected to the system) they
can "jack in". This is accomplished by fine filiments extending from the
characters finger.

They can also get a fair bit more cyber then other characters.

Grim Shear
"I knew this stuff would come in handy someday"

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 38
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 22:24:40 -0200
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:08:30 -0800
dghost@****.com wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:26:17 -0500 "abortion_engine"
> <abortion_engine@*******.com> writes:
> <SNIP>
> > If aliens are "introduced any time soon," I will explode. If aliens
> become
> > valid PC types, ever, I will [53.8Mp deleted by Dvixen] by the neck,
> with a
> > rope.
>
> Do you Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets? The Mars photographs
> (taken with a mars rover, IIRC, by NASA before being bought out by Ares.)
> in that book show pyramid constructs.

And an ox-like skeleton too :) .

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 39
From: Shane Hyde chaff.editor@*****.net.nz
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 14:12:02 +1300
> And an ox-like skeleton too :) .

Wasn't it a Dragon skeleton?

Shane
Message no. 40
From: abortion_engine@*******.com abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:30:10 -0500
From: "Mockingbird" <mockingbird@*********.com>
>
> From: Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
>
> <snip>
>
> > Is ED no longer part of the storyline just 'coz the game-line has
> been
> > discontinued. SR came first and [elsewhere] someone mentioned that
> what's
> > going on now has been in FASA'a books for a loooong time.
> >
> > I guess ED was just a SR spin-off that didn't work. Happens in
> television
> > all the time. Look at Star-Trek ;-)
> >
>
>
> O'kay,
> The short version. Earthdawn was Fasa's attempt at a fantasy
> world. When it didn't go over, they decided to link it to Shadowrun
in
> the hopes the SR fans would start buying it. This lead to alot of
> immortal elves and horror related material in SR.

The link was there before ED began to sell poorly; in fact, the link
was there before they sold it at all. As I understand the timeline--I
could ask Lou if anyone's not certain--FASA decided to make a fantasy
game, and after they had the basics done, they decided to link it to
SR, which really didn't change a whole lot, quite frankly. What it did
was give SR players history and background, depth of material to
answer "why?" and give ED players something to look forward to.

> By the time Mike took SR over, it was impossible to do anything
> scary in SR, because everyone just said "Oh, its another Horror
thing"
> instead of letting SR have its scary unkown side. Mike didn't like
> this, so he axed the connection (everything already done is still
> canon, but no new stuff will be added).

Well, that's not entirely true; the old players are still players;
Lofwyr certainly isn't going anywhere, but due to popular demand, the
"connection" plots are getting "back-burnered," in favor of SR-centric
plots like RA:S.
Message no. 41
From: abortion_engine@*******.com abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:41:07 -0500
From: "Shane Hyde" <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>


> > And an ox-like skeleton too :) .
>
> Wasn't it a Dragon skeleton?

Or something. I love a good mystery.
Message no. 42
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:52:55 -0600
> Check out an Alternity sourcebook. I've fooled around with the
> idea of trying to find a valid reason why the tech-interface race
> (argh, don't have book here!!!) would exist in SR. They're just
> too cool.

That would be the Mechalus.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 43
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:08:32 -0500
A-E wrote:
> > Hmm..would be pretty hard to get obsidimen cybernetics...
>
> Checks and balances. Gotta love 'em.

Given the Obsidimen nature I would be very surprised to see if you could
find one that would take cyber (imagine losing touch with the liferock,
shudder). Now an Obsidmen physad, there is a force to be reckoned with.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 44
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 02:20:37 EST
>From: Shane Hyde <chaff.editor@*****.net.nz>
>Subject: Re: Races of Technology.
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 99 10:20:27 +1300
>
>Gotta wonder about the mars constructs and dragonbones etc. IS the ED
>world set on Earth? Really? We're just assuming it is. Maybe the red
>planet resulted from the scourge?
>
>Shane
>

Well, this is something of an old subject in my wifes SR "Universe".
She ran a campaign a while ago where the base level of SR space tach
supported some deep inter system travel for mining purposes mainly and had
manned expeditions to Mars and all. Ok, nothing too abnormal here given the
level of tech.

Now where it got wierd was that in her universe, she used the 6th planet
theory. (very roughly, there was a "6th" planet in our solar system that was
destroyed somehow, creating the asteroid belt as we know it. For those of
you going "huh?" right now) Mars was a verdant planet before and supported
life. Said life had built structures similar to the arcologies in SR, hence
the pyramids, but only on a larger scaly. (I beleave the D&M pyramid has a 5
KM base).

The scourge happened there and on Atlas "the 6th planet". Atlas suffered
the worst, as it was actually destroyed. Many factors contributed, not just
the horrors. In the process, Mars was bereft of most of an atmosphere, and
combined with the scourge the race(s) were doomed. Now they were
technologically advanced in some areas and commenced to cloning the
memories/brain patterns of their "elders" and some of their most
knowledgable scientists/citizens (ala a Star Trek: TNG episode...sort of)
and with it putting a substantial ammount of their DNA.

Now, into the modern times of the 2060's. The runners were part of a corp,
and were doing high end corp work (escort of a VP, bodyguarding, that sort)
Most were ex-military, and one of them (the rigger) actually flew shuttles
for Ares before he was "requesitioned" by this corp. They get sent to mars
to investigate/guard an investigation team, who was sent to find out what
had happened to their outpost (no reply in 3 weeks). The last thing they
heard was that the outpost had found something big.

The runners thought it had something to do with Ares (they didn't want
anyone else to have Mars till THEY figured things out). What finally ended
up happening was they found the "inhabitants", brought the brains back to
Earth, and were able to bring a few back.

There are now aliens, no new tech, no invasion force, just a few new
"meta's" and an ongoing story. Not bad. It pulled a little away from the
mainstream, but IMO, still feels like SR to me.

My fingers hurt now, so I will quit scaring you with tales of SR aliens and
all.

BTW, this was my wifes game, NOT mine.

Ahrain
"Where you come from the 'men' do WHAT?"

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Message no. 45
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:13:53 EST
In a message dated 12/7/99 4:06:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
abortion_engine@*******.com writes:

> Windling cybernetics? Heh. Talk about difficulties and possibilities.


It's the fight of the century, sports fans!

In one corner, in the blue trucks, you know him, you love him, you've been
annoyed to hell by him:

Ropo the windling!

In the opposite corner, weighing in at .00001 grams, the challenger:

7 of 2000009 the Nanite!




-Twist
"We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
"Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."
Message no. 46
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:23:19 EST
In a message dated 12/7/99 5:51:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> > O'kay,
> > The short version. Earthdawn was Fasa's attempt at a fantasy
> > world. When it didn't go over, they decided to link it to Shadowrun in
> > the hopes the SR fans would start buying it. This lead to alot of
> > immortal elves and horror related material in SR.
>
> Uhm. Nope. The "connection" was there from there. As I understand it, the
> creators of ED created ED because they thought it'd be cool to play in
> SR's past.
>


Nope. Check out Bull's interview with Mike Mulvihill. ED was created as a
fantasy RPG, and then the SR links were tacked on after the product had been
finished to help boost sales.

Which goes a long way towards explaining why the two systems are so
incredibly different.

For my money, SR was more interesting when we didn't know what the hell had
happened before.





-Twist

"We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
"Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."
Message no. 47
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:32:21 -0800
On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:23:19 EST Twist0059@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
> Nope. Check out Bull's interview with Mike Mulvihill. ED was created
as a
> fantasy RPG, and then the SR links were tacked on after the product had
been
> finished to help boost sales.
>
> Which goes a long way towards explaining why the two systems are so
> incredibly different.
>
> For my money, SR was more interesting when we didn't know what the hell
had
> happened before.

Nope. The SR side of the link predates Earthdawn. If you can't find The
history of SR interesting, fine. However, to the rest of us, the loss of
Earthdawn was jsut that: a loss.

That FASA took the time to create a RPG that fleshed out SR past was a
boon. You can't see it that way? Tough.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 48
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:17:16 +0100
According to dghost@****.com, at 13:48 on 7 Dec 99, the word on
the street was...

> Not neccesarily. If the Aliens come to us, and do it in a large version
> of their equivelant of the shuttles that we ("we" in 2060) use. There
> would be no new tech per se, but perhaps a new perspective on tech that
> may lead to some joint innovations in technology over the following
> years.

Possible, but not all that likely, IMHO. That'd mean they'd be travelling
for decades, if not centuries, to reach Earth, and for some reason I don't
really think many would try something like that... Unless they have
extremely long life spans or are very far-sighted (not physically, of
course :) I doubt they'd find they have much to gain from space
exploration in this way.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 49
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:17:16 +0100
According to abortion_engine@*******.com, at 20:30 on 7 Dec 99, the word on
the street was...

> The link was there before ED began to sell poorly; in fact, the link
> was there before they sold it at all.

Take a look at the newspaper articles in the back of the adventure A
Killing Glare, from 1993 (the year ED came out).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 50
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:47:39 -0500
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>


> According to abortion_engine@*******.com, at 20:30 on 7 Dec 99, the word
on
> the street was...
>
> > The link was there before ED began to sell poorly; in fact, the link
> > was there before they sold it at all.
>
> Take a look at the newspaper articles in the back of the adventure A
> Killing Glare, from 1993 (the year ED came out).
>
Oh, sure, I'll just--

Hey! Wait a minute! Someone's stolen my adventure!

Oh, no. I don't own ANY adventures. Could you help me out?
Message no. 51
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:00:08 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to abortion_engine."
] > > The link was there before ED began to sell poorly; in fact, the link
] > > was there before they sold it at all.
] >
] > Take a look at the newspaper articles in the back of the adventure A
] > Killing Glare, from 1993 (the year ED came out).
] >
] Oh, sure, I'll just--
]
] Hey! Wait a minute! Someone's stolen my adventure!
]
] Oh, no. I don't own ANY adventures. Could you help me out?

No. Since you don't own adventures, you're obviously not a rabid
completionist like the rest of us, and don't deserve to know :)

Just kidding, of course. THere's a mini-article in there that points
to scientists discovering archaeoligical remains 130 miles off the
coast of Crete. They make refernces to a historical site called
"Thera" and assume the site is Atlantis. Talk about heavy-handed.

-Boondocker
Message no. 52
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Races of Technology.
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:13:12 -0500
From: "Scott W" <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>


> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to abortion_engine."
> ] > > The link was there before ED began to sell poorly; in fact, the link
> ] > > was there before they sold it at all.
> ] >
> ] > Take a look at the newspaper articles in the back of the adventure A
> ] > Killing Glare, from 1993 (the year ED came out).
> ] >
> ] Oh, sure, I'll just--
> ]
> ] Hey! Wait a minute! Someone's stolen my adventure!
> ]
> ] Oh, no. I don't own ANY adventures. Could you help me out?
>
> No. Since you don't own adventures, you're obviously not a rabid
> completionist like the rest of us, and don't deserve to know :)
>
> Just kidding, of course. THere's a mini-article in there that points
> to scientists discovering archaeoligical remains 130 miles off the
> coast of Crete. They make refernces to a historical site called
> "Thera" and assume the site is Atlantis. Talk about heavy-handed.

Hence the Atlantean Foundation. Cute. Speaking of Clue-by-Fours.
___________________________________
I told you this morality of mine would kill us all.

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