Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Joy Westmoreland <dj_boyd@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:	Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:02:48 -0700

Message no. 1 Do the major hate groups (humanis policlub, etc.) have bases in
Ireland?

From:	Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:12:46 -0700

Message no. 2 >Do the major hate groups (humanis policlub, etc.) have bases in
>Ireland?
>
I Don't See Why Not, Although it may be in different forms. For a
comparison for Humanis I usually use groups like the KKK, do they have bases
in Ireland? Don't forget that Ireland is Tir na nOg.

From:	"Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:18:54 -0700

From:	Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:41:50 -0700

Message no. 4 >Along this line do the age old Catholic vs. Protestant conflicts still
>exist in Eire?
>
>*-------------------------------------------*
>|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
>|President, |<buug@***.com> |
>|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
>*-------------------------------------------*
>
History teaches that religious conflicts are the most difficult to resolve
and thus the longest lasting. Besides, it makes for good planning ideas.
So does the Irish Republic, or whatever it's called, the Irish terrorist
that blow things up every so often. Ever seen Blown Away?

From:	James Pearley Kilbride <kilbrj@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 19:40:10 -0400

Message no. 5 On Sep 9, 4:41pm, Dustin Wood wrote:
> Subject: Re: Racists in Ireland?
> >Along this line do the age old Catholic vs. Protestant conflicts still
> >exist in Eire?
> >
> >*-------------------------------------------*
> >|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
> >|President, |<buug@***.com> |
> >|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
> >*-------------------------------------------*
> >
> History teaches that religious conflicts are the most difficult to resolve
> and thus the longest lasting. Besides, it makes for good planning ideas.
> So does the Irish Republic, or whatever it's called, the Irish terrorist
> that blow things up every so often. Ever seen Blown Away?
>-- End of excerpt from Dustin Wood

Actually guys one problem, according to the London Sourcebook Ireland doesn't
exist except as an overgrown area. Some Meta's elves I think, took control
of Ireland and threw out all the corps and have a magical barrier around that
turns anybody around.

From:	Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:49:24 -0700

Message no. 6 >On Sep 9, 4:41pm, Dustin Wood wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Racists in Ireland?
>> >Along this line do the age old Catholic vs. Protestant conflicts still
>> >exist in Eire?
>> >
>> >*-------------------------------------------*
>> >|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
>> >|President, |<buug@***.com> |
>> >|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
>> >*-------------------------------------------*
>> >
>> History teaches that religious conflicts are the most difficult to resolve
>> and thus the longest lasting. Besides, it makes for good planning ideas.
>> So does the Irish Republic, or whatever it's called, the Irish terrorist
>> that blow things up every so often. Ever seen Blown Away?
>>-- End of excerpt from Dustin Wood
>
>Actually guys one problem, according to the London Sourcebook Ireland doesn't
>exist except as an overgrown area. Some Meta's elves I think, took control
>of Ireland and threw out all the corps and have a magical barrier around that
>turns anybody around.
>
Ireland is Tir nAn nOg, the European cousin to Tir Tairngire and the barrier
is called the veil, it masks the island, making normal or magical navigation
difficult. I don't see why the Irish becoming elves would diffuse any
tension between them and the English though, nor religious disputes, if
anything I would think it would make it worse. Elves are legendarily snotty.

From:	"Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sat, 9 Sep 1995 20:09:21 -0500

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:41:28 +0200

Message no. 8 >Elves are legendarily snotty.

One of the reasons I like SR is because it doesn't realy fall into racial
stereotyping... "Elves are snotty," "Orks are dumb," "Dwarves are
short..."
erm, that last one may be true, actually :)
What I'm trying to say is _some_ elves are snotty, just as _some_ humans are
snotty. I bet you'll find snotty trolls too. It's just that it depends on
where and how they were raised. 99% of the Tir Tairngire elves will think
themselves superior to humans, because their own government is making them
believe they are. But does that mean _all_ elves think they're better than
the rest of Homo sapiens' subspecies?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He has you all fooled
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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From:	"Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:29:40 -0700

From:	James Pearley Kilbride <kilbrj@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:58:37 -0400

Message no. 10 On Sep 9, 4:49pm, Dustin Wood wrote:
> Subject: Re: Racists in Ireland?
> >On Sep 9, 4:41pm, Dustin Wood wrote:
> >> Subject: Re: Racists in Ireland?
> >> >Along this line do the age old Catholic vs. Protestant conflicts still
> >> >exist in Eire?
> >> >
> >> >*-------------------------------------------*
> >> >|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
> >> >|President, |<buug@***.com> |
> >> >|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
> >> >*-------------------------------------------*
> >> >
> >> History teaches that religious conflicts are the most difficult to
resolve
> >> and thus the longest lasting. Besides, it makes for good planning
ideas.
> >> So does the Irish Republic, or whatever it's called, the Irish terrorist
> >> that blow things up every so often. Ever seen Blown Away?
> >>-- End of excerpt from Dustin Wood
> >
> >Actually guys one problem, according to the London Sourcebook Ireland
doesn't
> >exist except as an overgrown area. Some Meta's elves I think, took
control
> >of Ireland and threw out all the corps and have a magical barrier around
that
> >turns anybody around.
> >
> Ireland is Tir nAn nOg, the European cousin to Tir Tairngire and the
barrier
> is called the veil, it masks the island, making normal or magical
navigation
> difficult. I don't see why the Irish becoming elves would diffuse any
> tension between them and the English though, nor religious disputes, if
> anything I would think it would make it worse. Elves are legendarily
snotty.
>-- End of excerpt from Dustin Wood

Thanks dustin I couldn't find my sourcbook at the time. I meant thought that
there is no religous warfare in Tir Nan Nog that is mentioned. I believe
they were talking about something to do in Ireland and I don't think that
what they would like to do in Ireland is something you can do...

From:	Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 13:37:14 -0700

Message no. 11 >>Elves are legendarily snotty.
>
>One of the reasons I like SR is because it doesn't realy fall into racial
>stereotyping... "Elves are snotty," "Orks are dumb," "Dwarves
are short..."
>erm, that last one may be true, actually :)
>What I'm trying to say is _some_ elves are snotty, just as _some_ humans are
>snotty. I bet you'll find snotty trolls too. It's just that it depends on
>where and how they were raised. 99% of the Tir Tairngire elves will think
>themselves superior to humans, because their own government is making them
>believe they are. But does that mean _all_ elves think they're better than
>the rest of Homo sapiens' subspecies?
>
When I said Elves were legendarily snotty, we were talking about racism in
Tir nA nOg, a place where I would certainly consider them snotty. I didn't
mean to imply that ALL SR elves are snotty. A good example is the
introduction story in the SRII book.
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> He has you all fooled
> -> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>

From:	Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 13:42:46 -0700

From:	"Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:20:42 -0700

Message no. 13 > >
> Thanks, I'll be damned if I could remember, just out of curiosity, are you
> Irish?

Part Irish, Part Scottish, part English and mostly Norwegian by
bloodlines, but I'm about a sixth or seventh generation American.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:26:58 +0200

Message no. 14 >>>Elves are legendarily snotty.
[snip]
>>
>When I said Elves were legendarily snotty, we were talking about racism in
>Tir nA nOg, a place where I would certainly consider them snotty. I didn't
>mean to imply that ALL SR elves are snotty. A good example is the
>introduction story in the SRII book.

In that case it was probably that you formulated it a bit unfortunately.
See, the way I read that piece (at least when you added the last sentence,
quoted above) was taht you said _all_ elves, no matter where, who, or when,
are snotty. Which is a pretty **&* attitude, IMHO...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A lunatic just barking at the moon
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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From:	Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:04:42 +0200

Message no. 15 }>>>Elves are legendarily snotty.
}[snip]
}>>
}>When I said Elves were legendarily snotty, we were talking about racism in
}>Tir nA nOg, a place where I would certainly consider them snotty. I didn't
}>mean to imply that ALL SR elves are snotty. A good example is the
}>introduction story in the SRII book.

The reason they seem aloof is because of their belief in some
higher purpose. That reminds me, our next run is into Tir nA nOg.
Hell I loath Harliquin.....that snotty faced elf.. ;-)

}
}In that case it was probably that you formulated it a bit unfortunately.
}See, the way I read that piece (at least when you added the last sentence,
}quoted above) was taht you said _all_ elves, no matter where, who, or when,
}are snotty. Which is a pretty **&* attitude, IMHO...

While I agree that most elves do have a reputation for having
their noses an inch higher than everyone elses, and it is a **&*
result, most of the elves in our campagins (the PC's) that is take
the mickey out of that ideology (and some NPC's) .Heck in our
campaign, Phoenix our elven pyromanic hates being an elf. The reason
being that when the character was created he was human, a member of a
anti-elven polio club, about two years into the game, he underwent
goblinization (result of a horrendusly failed run) and became an elf.
Now if that isn't poetic justice I don't know what is..

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/

From:	The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Mon, 11 Sep 1995 08:23:38 -0500

Message no. 16 Andre' writes:<stuff about Anti-Elf human goblinizing into elf>Sorry, I STILL
don't quote...<smirk>

One little note.... this may just be due to the fact that you said you use
lotsa house rules in your games, but just for clarification, according to the
SRII rulebook ELVES AND DWARVES DO NOT GOBLINIZE. They're born that way. UGE
(Unexplained Genetic Mutation) or "goblinization" occured several years AFTER
the first elven and dwarven births, resulting in the expression of humans into
orks and trolls. Goblinization NEVER turns humans into elves and dwarves, and
in 2055, when most SR campaigns are set, goblinization of anyone is very
uncommon, as most orks and trolls are born that way, too. Please don't take
offense if your game is set up different, I just point out what the books say.

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.

Support Whirled Peas.

From:	Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject:	Re: Racists in Ireland?
Date:	Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:14:25 +0200

Message no. 17 }Andre' writes:<stuff about Anti-Elf human goblinizing into elf>Sorry, I STILL
}don't quote...<smirk>
}
}One little note.... this may just be due to the fact that you said you use
}lotsa house rules in your games, but just for clarification, according to the
}SRII rulebook ELVES AND DWARVES DO NOT GOBLINIZE. They're born that way. UGE
}(Unexplained Genetic Mutation) or "goblinization" occured several years AFTER
}the first elven and dwarven births, resulting in the expression of humans into
}orks and trolls. Goblinization NEVER turns humans into elves and dwarves, and
}in 2055, when most SR campaigns are set, goblinization of anyone is very
}uncommon, as most orks and trolls are born that way, too. Please don't take
}offense if your game is set up different, I just point out what the books say.
}
Accepted, actually the uneffected members of the group argued
that rule. Unfortunately for us the GM is in his final year of
Genetics...... He went into great detail to explain to use how the
scientist (who we fed to ghouls) created the serum that caused the
goblinization and how it effected the individuals metabolism.
Explaining that to 1 Computer Science, 1 Social Science, 1 Muscian, 1
Electrical Engineer students. Guess who won. Still joy did pan out,
the street sam started to goblinize into a troll, paying a hell of a
lot of nuyen (and loosing the last of his essence) he managed to
divert the process from that of troll to elf.. The cosmetic changes
also cost extra... ;-)

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/

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