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Message no. 1
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:17:39 +0000
On 15 Jul 96 at 8:13, David Buehrer wrote:
> Here's a good encounter: <in the Barrens> An orc with a push cart
> coming down the street in the early morning light calling out, "Bring
> out your dead! Bring out your dead!" When asked what he's doing he
> answers, "Hey, a guy's gotta eat."
Hm, you Humanis-involed or what?
No, I don't fall for it: Of course the Orc is being paid for the job,
but I know who would fall for it... hm. *dirty GM grin* Well...
tomorrow .-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 2
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:28:02 -0600 (MDT)
Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
|On 15 Jul 96 at 8:13, David Buehrer wrote:
|> Here's a good encounter: <in the Barrens> An orc with a push cart
|> coming down the street in the early morning light calling out, "Bring
|> out your dead! Bring out your dead!" When asked what he's doing he
|> answers, "Hey, a guy's gotta eat."

|Hm, you Humanis-involed or what?
|No, I don't fall for it: Of course the Orc is being paid for the job,
|but I know who would fall for it... hm. *dirty GM grin* Well...
|tomorrow .-)

Actually, it was a combined reference to Monty Python's "The Holy Grail"
and cannibalism. What are *you* thinking of doing to your characters? Cuz
I'm a mean and evil GM too and wouldn't mind some new ideas :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 3
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:15:39 +0000
On 15 Jul 96 at 14:28, David Buehrer wrote:
[corpse collecting orc]
> Actually, it was a combined reference to Monty Python's "The Holy Grail"
> and cannibalism. What are *you* thinking of doing to your characters? Cuz
> I'm a mean and evil GM too and wouldn't mind some new ideas :)
Actually I'll give 'em that encounter. But THEY will be through
firefights, and a mad dash, and a night in the barrens far from their
friends and contacts. I am quite sure _they_ will think not too well
about that poor trog .-)
Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 4
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:01:23 -0500
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> On 15 Jul 96 at 14:28, David Buehrer wrote:
> [corpse collecting orc]
> > Actually, it was a combined reference to Monty Python's "The Holy
Grail"
> > and cannibalism. What are *you* thinking of doing to your characters? Cuz
> > I'm a mean and evil GM too and wouldn't mind some new ideas :)
> Actually I'll give 'em that encounter. But THEY will be through
> firefights, and a mad dash, and a night in the barrens far from their
> friends and contacts. I am quite sure _they_ will think not too well
> about that poor trog .-)
> Sascha


Half the group I game with would blow his head off before he finished
his sentence. You know, the "peace through superior firepower" types.

--C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
SPOOOOON!!!
Message no. 5
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 01:23:18 +0000
On 15 Jul 96 at 18:01, C J Anderson wrote:
> Sascha Pabst wrote:
> >
> > On 15 Jul 96 at 14:28, David Buehrer wrote:
> > [corpse collecting orc]
[snip]
> > Actually I'll give 'em that encounter. [snip]
> Half the group I game with would blow his head off before he finished
> his sentence. You know, the "peace through superior firepower" types.
*grin* That's what I am counting on. And _then_ have the
neighbourhood react. See, this orc did a good job that needed to be
done, the people here quite liked him, and of course this are the
barrens. Everyone will have at least a shotgun / Heavy Pistol, and
even my gamers will have moral problems to shoot at an old lady aged
about 70 with an old 2-round shotgun :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 6
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:19:09 -0500
> > Half the group I game with would blow his head off before he finished
> > his sentence. You know, the "peace through superior firepower" types.
> *grin* That's what I am counting on. And _then_ have the
> neighbourhood react. See, this orc did a good job that needed to be
> done, the people here quite liked him, and of course this are the
> barrens. Everyone will have at least a shotgun / Heavy Pistol, and
> even my gamers will have moral problems to shoot at an old lady aged
> about 70 with an old 2-round shotgun :-)
>
> Sascha

Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.

--C J Anderson

nitehawk@******.net
Message no. 7
From: Rogue Cheddar <fenrir@******.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:30:06 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C J Anderson wrote:

>
> Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
> has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
> know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
> residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.
>
> --C J Anderson
>
> nitehawk@******.net
>

I know it's been said, and is likely to be said again, but there's ALWAYS
opponants out there tougher than the characters. If absolute worst comes to
absolute worst, and the characters try and take on a whole barrens
neighborhood, let them. Lone Star won't ignore that, and neither will the
governor, who just might call in the 'plex guard. And so it escalates.
Then, if you do have to rely on such tactics, have a little GM-to-players
talk about discretion being the better part of role-playing.

Thank-you, I'll get off my soap-box now.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/Rogue Cheddar /Eyes and genitals were bought on the/
/fenrir@expert.cc.purdue.edu/open market. The eyes were green. /
/ / -William Gibson, Count Zero/
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Message no. 8
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:41:14 -0500
> I know it's been said, and is likely to be said again, but there's ALWAYS
> opponants out there tougher than the characters. If absolute worst comes to
> absolute worst, and the characters try and take on a whole barrens
> neighborhood, let them. Lone Star won't ignore that, and neither will the
> governor, who just might call in the 'plex guard. And so it escalates.
> Then, if you do have to rely on such tactics, have a little GM-to-players
> talk about discretion being the better part of role-playing.
>
> Thank-you, I'll get off my soap-box now.


Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing
but kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If
you want to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick
of your little finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at
once if you want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing
them with a challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to
do is waste 'em?
Next soapbox speaker......

--C J Anderson

nitehawk@******.net


SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!
Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:22:40 -0600 (MDT)
C J Anderson wrote:
|
|> > Half the group I game with would blow his head off before he finished
|> > his sentence. You know, the "peace through superior firepower"
types.
|> *grin* That's what I am counting on. And _then_ have the
|> neighbourhood react. See, this orc did a good job that needed to be
|> done, the people here quite liked him, and of course this are the
|> barrens. Everyone will have at least a shotgun / Heavy Pistol, and
|> even my gamers will have moral problems to shoot at an old lady aged
|> about 70 with an old 2-round shotgun :-)
|>
|> Sascha
|
|Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
|has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
|know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
|residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.

What if there's a megacorp lab operating in the shadows in
the neighborhood, or some other highly illegel going ons
with small but well armed and trained security? Or a
dragon? Or the slaughter attracts a wraith? <BG>

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 10
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:25:54 -0600 (MDT)
Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
|On 15 Jul 96 at 18:01, C J Anderson wrote:
|> Sascha Pabst wrote:
|> >
|> > On 15 Jul 96 at 14:28, David Buehrer wrote:
|> > [corpse collecting orc]
|[snip]
|> > Actually I'll give 'em that encounter. [snip]
|> Half the group I game with would blow his head off before he finished
|> his sentence. You know, the "peace through superior firepower" types.
|*grin* That's what I am counting on. And _then_ have the
|neighbourhood react. See, this orc did a good job that needed to be
|done, the people here quite liked him, and of course this are the
|barrens. Everyone will have at least a shotgun / Heavy Pistol, and
|even my gamers will have moral problems to shoot at an old lady aged
|about 70 with an old 2-round shotgun :-)

Nice. I wonder if my players will fall for that?... Give
the old lady's 80 year old lesbian lover a Panther AC.
(well, that was sick. time to go to bed.)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 11
From: PDL@****.dacom.co.kr
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 12:06:03 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------

Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of
their money has to go to arming the group like a small armored
battalion. I don't know for sure, but I think they would level
that neighborhood and its residents, with only minor casualties
to themselves.

--C J Anderson

----------End of Original Message----------
If they are carrying that much fire power all the time, they
need a visit from Lone Star first. Anyone carrying that
much firepower is eventually going to attract attention.
There are other groups who may wonder why this group is
so well armed. The merchant who pay protection may call for
help. Gangs who wonder why someone is operating on their
turf. These are just groups I came up with off the top of
my head. If they spent most their resources on weapons they
are deficent in other areas. Exploit those weaknesses. Any
group that thinks they can shoot their way out of any
neighboorhood is looking for trouble. If they don't bother to
check out the local areas, what if the neighboorhood is a home
to a group of runners. Runners have to live somewhere.

Patrick
Message no. 12
From: Marc Lipshitz <MLIPSHIT@****.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:27:52 +0200
>>> C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net> 17/July/1996 03:41am >>>
> I know it's been said, and is likely to be said again, but there's
ALWAYS
> opponants out there tougher than the characters. If absolute worst
comes to
> absolute worst, and the characters try and take on a whole barrens
> neighborhood, let them. Lone Star won't ignore that, and neither will the
> governor, who just might call in the 'plex guard. And so it escalates.
> Then, if you do have to rely on such tactics, have a little GM-to-players
> talk about discretion being the better part of role-playing.
> > Thank-you, I'll get off my soap-box now.


Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing but
kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If you want
to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick of your little
finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at once if you
want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing them with a
challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to do is waste 'em?
Next soapbox speaker......
--C J Anderson
*********************************************************

*Climbs on soapbox*
AHEM.... its not a matter of killing players, its a matter of enforcing a
roleplaying environment. I'm one of the players in Dion's group an I agree
with his stance. The players who have characters living in the street
seem to think nothing of it. They never bring it into their roleplaying or
actions. Thus a random event table might jar them awake, it need not
even be a permanent solution, just one to get them to roleplay their
characters properly.

The other problem of characters shooting up neighborhoods, well if
people behave like that then they must expect a response.
Shadowrunners are not going to spend their lives wading through blood,
thats not why people generally hire them. If players behave like
psychotic madmen the GM is perfectly justified in throughing the entire
UCAS defence force at them if necessary. What gbovernment is going to
ignore a small well armed force destroying part of the city?

*climbs off soapbox*

Marc
Message no. 13
From: Helge Diernaes <ecocide@***.econ.cbs.dk>
Subject: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:33:34 +0200 (METDST)
On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Marc Lipshitz wrote:

[CJ Andersons soapbox snipped]

> *Climbs on soapbox*
> AHEM.... its not a matter of killing players, its a matter of enforcing a
> roleplaying environment. I'm one of the players in Dion's group an I agree
> with his stance. The players who have characters living in the street
> seem to think nothing of it. They never bring it into their roleplaying or
> actions. Thus a random event table might jar them awake, it need not
> even be a permanent solution, just one to get them to roleplay their
> characters properly.
>
> The other problem of characters shooting up neighborhoods, well if
> people behave like that then they must expect a response.
> Shadowrunners are not going to spend their lives wading through blood,
> thats not why people generally hire them. If players behave like
> psychotic madmen the GM is perfectly justified in throughing the entire
> UCAS defence force at them if necessary. What gbovernment is going to
> ignore a small well armed force destroying part of the city?

> *climbs off soapbox*

Exactly my position on the matter. Nicely explained *applause*.

CJA, you are not completely wrong in this case - several of my vet
peers in the GMing business have a tendency to panic when the gamers get their
PC's onto taking actions that completely throws the balance of the game.
Like having several troopers running around with granade launchers in a
high-status hospital :) because the PC's did something like it and the GM
felt he had to respond in kind.
Many times, these GM friends of mine cannot think of any response besides
lethal confrontation to PC antics - and naturally, the GM, with his nukes,
wins. And the gamers glower.

It all comes down to your gaming style, I think. Are you running a
wuzzpunk campaign or a lethal devious/twists/smart-enemies-campaign?
If wuzzpunking, where the deal is to waste as much as possible, then
ofcourse you don't level your subjects - they obviously get a kick of
being immortal and kicking easy ass, counting their succes in number of
fictional enemies torn apart. Beside proving nicely the stupidity of
RPGs to the real world, it would be a farce, at least to me and I'd quickly
excuse myself :)

If you run the other kind of game, then RL is a fine guide. Like Marc
said, a small gang (the PC's) who level a neighbourhood with force, is going
to meet some consequences - did we say SWAT or are something stronger needed
before these psychos get to kill more votes? Have lone star/SWAT/another
shadowrun group hunt the PC's, if you're against raising mortality rates,
use tear gas, thermal smoke granades, chem weapons, bio weapons, traps,
whatever it takes, and then mess up their brains so much that they'll not
use any firearms for a loooonnnnggg time and instead use their ingenuity
to solve problems :)
Or put them in jail for some years (read, terminate the session and
begin discussing wives/husbands, rules, computers, world politics, etc.)
Doing this and thus losing like 5 hours of potential gaming time unless
one of the gamers release some really good escape idea, kinda puts things
into perspective. In Jail, let'm have their muscles partly incapitated on
a permanent basis - they are psychos, remember -, their cyberware
neutralized or removed, lots of false - and bad - rumours spread amongst the
shadow community, etc. Cortex bombs? Hormonal/protein addiction? Ahhh,
the possibilities are infinite :) and you actually help your gamers to
better roleplay by handing them a few handicaps in addition to those they
should have adopted themselves initially, if they're serious roleplayers.

Uhhhh, actually there are lots of reasons why PC's shouldn't mess with
the publics/states...

The above is fundamental, so please bear with me if I appear condescending.

--
R,

Silhouette

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fae doer,
fraende doer,
selv doer jeg engang.
En ting ved jeg aldrig doer.
Dommen over doed mand.

- Havamaal
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helge Diernaes | ecocide@***.econ.cbs.dk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 06:42:51 -0500
Marc Lipshitz wrote:
>
> >>> C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net> 17/July/1996 03:41am
>>>
> > I know it's been said, and is likely to be said again, but there's
> ALWAYS
> > opponants out there tougher than the characters. If absolute worst
> comes to
> > absolute worst, and the characters try and take on a whole barrens
> > neighborhood, let them. Lone Star won't ignore that, and neither will the
> > governor, who just might call in the 'plex guard. And so it escalates.
> > Then, if you do have to rely on such tactics, have a little GM-to-players
> > talk about discretion being the better part of role-playing.
> > > Thank-you, I'll get off my soap-box now.
>
> Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing but
> kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If you want
> to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick of your little
> finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at once if you
> want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing them with a
> challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to do is waste 'em?
> Next soapbox speaker......
> --C J Anderson
> *********************************************************
>
> *Climbs on soapbox*
> AHEM.... its not a matter of killing players, its a matter of enforcing a
> roleplaying environment. I'm one of the players in Dion's group an I agree
> with his stance. The players who have characters living in the street
> seem to think nothing of it. They never bring it into their roleplaying or
> actions. Thus a random event table might jar them awake, it need not
> even be a permanent solution, just one to get them to roleplay their
> characters properly.
>
> The other problem of characters shooting up neighborhoods, well if
> people behave like that then they must expect a response.
> Shadowrunners are not going to spend their lives wading through blood,
> thats not why people generally hire them. If players behave like
> psychotic madmen the GM is perfectly justified in throughing the entire
> UCAS defence force at them if necessary. What gbovernment is going to
> ignore a small well armed force destroying part of the city?
>
> *climbs off soapbox*
>
> Marc

*raises hand and clears throat*

Okay, but a lot of the talk around here has been exchanging ways to
kill players, not much about providing them a challenge.... I mean, I
have a monster of a campaign (over 2000 handwritten pages of notes that
take forever to get logged into my puter) and if the characters are
smart and work on it, they can think their way through it. Yes,
blasting their way through everything will get them killed. But, if I
thought like some people around here, their deaths would be guaranteed
and their fates sealed... No point in playing then. The session would
go something like this:

1. players show up at house...

2. GM informs players that all PCs are dead.

3. Players get pissed and go home.

Great fun, what?

--C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Message no. 15
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:46:43 +0100
C J Anderson said on 20:19/16 Jul 96...

> Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
> has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
> know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
> residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.

I somehow think their life expectancy would be a bit short after doing
something like that. My guess is Lone Star will be after them (even though
they killed only SINless folks) because a) they might do this in a nice
area next time, and b) public opinion wants LS to get those punks.
Then there's the yakuza boss whose nephew got killed by a stray round, the
seven troll shadowrunners whose relatives lived in the building the PCs
blew up, not to mention the vice-governor of Seattle who happened to have
some shady dealings in the area and also bought it.

I think you get the "reaction = -action" idea...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Excuse me ma'am for being so rude
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 16
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:05:19 +0000
On 16 Jul 96 at 20:22, David Buehrer wrote:
[attack neighbourhood after orc-encounter]
> What if there's a megacorp lab operating in the shadows in
> the neighborhood, or some other highly illegel going ons
> with small but well armed and trained security? Or a
> dragon? Or the slaughter attracts a wraith? <BG>
Nononono... I didn`t want to WASTE my players (not that they fell for
it, anyways), but teach them a lesson in being careful and not acting
for biasses (now they teached ME a lesson :-/). Low powered
civilians, described as harmless, but armed since they _do_ live in
the barrens. Maybe one or two people with assault rifles, but
absolutely NO heavy weapons. When you do this, let your players look
over the bodies of 14-year old kids with light pistols, a mother
fallen over her dead children, whatever comes to (the sick) mind.

Not opposition, just a bad feeling in the players' and characters'
guts.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 17
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:05:19 +0000
On 16 Jul 96 at 20:41, C J Anderson wrote:
> Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing
> but kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If
> you want to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick
> of your little finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at
> once if you want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing
> them with a challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to
> do is waste 'em?
But where's the fun in killing a whole neighbourhood of civilians?
Are you or are your players the "Splatter-Punk"-Type?
(Um, no offense meant. I know people who like the hack'n'slash style,
but I don't. It's your game, after all)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 18
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:05:19 +0000
On 16 Jul 96 at 20:19, C J Anderson wrote:
[Orc-collecting-corpses-Encounter and ideas on players' reactions snipped]
> Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
> has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
> know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
> residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.
First of all: They didn't. In fact, they even managed to come to good
terms with the orc (will help them in that neighbourhood for sure).
Sometimes your players are just amazing, aren't they? :-)

Then: Maybe the Runners _could_ have leveled the neighbourhood, but
the main question for me was: _Would_ they? Most of the Characters
are quite morally (well, apart from the vampiric infected sam, of
course .-) and I don't think they'd leveld "civilians". Well, that's
a thing I gotta check later. Thanx for the idea of the orc. Now I
have to write down details on yet another lasting NPC :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 19
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:08:25 -0500
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> On 16 Jul 96 at 20:41, C J Anderson wrote:
> > Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing
> > but kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If
> > you want to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick
> > of your little finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at
> > once if you want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing
> > them with a challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to
> > do is waste 'em?
> But where's the fun in killing a whole neighbourhood of civilians?
> Are you or are your players the "Splatter-Punk"-Type?
> (Um, no offense meant. I know people who like the hack'n'slash style,
> but I don't. It's your game, after all)
>
> Sascha
> --

No, not really. They just tend to respond to armed threats by
eliminating anything in the near vicinity that could harm them. I would
say more "overkill" than Splatter-Punk.
No offense taken. I have played with players like that.....

C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Message no. 20
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:12:36 -0500
Gurth wrote:
>
> C J Anderson said on 20:19/16 Jul 96...
>
> > Cool, but I'm talking about a group where they think most of their money
> > has to go to arming the group like a small armored battalion. I don't
> > know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and its
> > residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.
>
> I somehow think their life expectancy would be a bit short after doing
> something like that. My guess is Lone Star will be after them (even though
> they killed only SINless folks) because a) they might do this in a nice
> area next time, and b) public opinion wants LS to get those punks.
> Then there's the yakuza boss whose nephew got killed by a stray round, the
> seven troll shadowrunners whose relatives lived in the building the PCs
> blew up, not to mention the vice-governor of Seattle who happened to have
> some shady dealings in the area and also bought it.
>
> I think you get the "reaction = -action" idea...
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Excuse me ma'am for being so rude
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-


Shall we just drop a piano or safe on the PC's and get it over with.

C J Anderson

nitehawk@******.net
Message no. 21
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <ojastej@******.sid.ncr.doe.ca>
Subject: RE: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 11:47:00 PDT
C J Anderson wrote:
> Gurth wrote:
> > > know for sure, but I think they would level that neighborhood and
its
> > > residents, with only minor casualties to themselves.
> > I somehow think their life expectancy would be a bit short after
doing
> > something like that. My guess is Lone Star will be after them (even
though
[chop]
> > Then there's the yakuza boss whose nephew got killed by a stray
round, the
> > seven troll shadowrunners whose relatives lived in the building the
PCs
> > blew up, not to mention the vice-governor of Seattle who happened to
have
> > some shady dealings in the area and also bought it.
> Shall we just drop a piano or safe on the PC's and get it over with.

I'm pretty sure that the point that Gurth was trying to make is
that every action has a consequence. The consequence doesn't
necessarily have to kill the PCs, just slap them in the face
and try to get them to realize that violence isn't always the
best situation.

How about sending them on an mission where some corp hires
them to extract a guy from Lone Star? If they ask, they'll
provide false ID, uniforms etc. If they just try to gun down
the place, they'll be *grossly* outgunned. Even the most
trigger-happy PC should realise this and try to find another
way to do it.

The Shaman in my group summoned up a level 4 city spirit in
a medium-high lifestyle area in Seattle during his 2nd week
there. Somebody called Lone Star and told them "Some guy's
summoning up spirits over here", so Lone Star freaked and
sen out the SWAT/Anti-terrorist team.

He ended up having his pistol confiscated, and having to
bribe one of them (with 13,000 Y!). He was released.
Shaking. :-)

James

--
I can't be bothered to think up a generally witty comment right
now, so if you'll just leave your sense of humour at the tone...
Message no. 22
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:24:48 -0600 (MDT)
C J Anderson wrote:
|
|1. players show up at house...
|
|2. GM informs players that all PCs are dead.
|
|3. Players get pissed and go home.

4. GM tries to get a refund for HOL.

Seriously though, I try very hard not to kill characters,
while presenting very challenging adventures. 'Course if a
PC does something stupid he's dead.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 23
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:39:50 -0500
David Buehrer wrote:
>
> C J Anderson wrote:
> |
> |1. players show up at house...
> |
> |2. GM informs players that all PCs are dead.
> |
> |3. Players get pissed and go home.
>
> 4. GM tries to get a refund for HOL.
>
> Seriously though, I try very hard not to kill characters,
> while presenting very challenging adventures. 'Course if a
> PC does something stupid he's dead.
>
> -David
>
> /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
> Oh, I have no problem killing stupid characters. Of course, some
nights that means my players would do nothing but burn through PCs about
as fast as they could create them. It just seemed to me that a lot of
postings were more concerned with ways to do them in, rather than
creative situations for them to have to "brain rather than brawn" their
way out of.

C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Message no. 24
From: Rogue Cheddar <fenrir@******.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:42:40 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C J Anderson wrote:

> Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing
> but kill off parties out there. I thought the idea was to have fun. If
> you want to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick
> of your little finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at
> once if you want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing
> them with a challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to
> do is waste 'em?
> Next soapbox speaker......

I'm not speaking as a GM who wants nothing but to kill off PC's. There
are natural consequences to the actions PC's take. The equivilant of
declaring war on a section of Seattle WILL make waves with Lone Star, there
would be a typically heavy-handed response, and Lone Star has a lot more to
bring down on the characters' head than they should be able to deal with.
My point is that a GM shouldn't be paralyzed by an over-armed, overly-
aggressive party. There are always options, including the extreme, if
necessary.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/Rogue Cheddar /Eyes and genitals were bought on the/
/fenrir@expert.cc.purdue.edu/open market. The eyes were green. /
/ / -William Gibson, Count Zero/
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Message no. 25
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:19:07 +0100
In message <31EC44BA.49A0@******.net>, C J Anderson
<nitehawk@******.net> writes
>Now I'll get on mine. Seems there's a streak of wanting to do nothing
>but kill off parties out there.

No, but there's a degree of common sense required. How many murders can
you commit in one day without having to constrain your operations as a
result? Destroy a decent area of city and you become a *big* villian
with a big price on your head, police, Army, and every bountyhunter on
the continent hunting you...

Actions have consequences. One PC in a group suggested that we use nerve
gas in the ventilation of the (forty-storey) building we wanted to raid.
He didn't seem to get the fact that killing 500+ bystanders would cause
us a *lot* of trouble.

Hell, my first Shadowrun PC was seen shooting a policeman. End of
career, basically: the PC wasn't bright enough to change identity. It
was a good learning experience for me, though.

>I thought the idea was to have fun. If
>you want to do nothing but kill PC's, yeah, you can do that with a flick
>of your little finger as GM. I mean, you can drop everything on them at
>once if you want to kill them bad enough. What happened to providing
>them with a challenge? I mean, what's the point if all you're going to
>do is waste 'em?

For a challenge there has to be a threat. Most of these discussions are
of the "if the PCs try to assassinate the President" variety, where
players do something that, realistically, would have extremely severe
consequences.

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 26
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:51:22 -0600
>Nononono... I didn`t want to WASTE my players (not that they fell for
>it, anyways), but teach them a lesson in being careful and not acting
>for biasses (now they teached ME a lesson :-/). Low powered


One time I had a player who was going to geek some street squatter.
The "squatter" told the player to buzz off. It was mostly, get out of
*my* living space type of thing. The player, who was sitting on a
harley, was just going to blow him away, because it's easier to shoot
someone then have to role-play the scene of: "I'm just going to be here
a bit, chill." What to do? The guy was coming across as a pathic old
man defending what little he had.

I ended up, having the "squatter" be a street sam out on a stake out.
He pulled out an smg, and put a few rounds into the player. The player
turned tail and ran.


>Not opposition, just a bad feeling in the players' and characters'
>guts.
>

This only works if the players have any compassion. I've been in
groups who think nothing of blowing NPCs away, because "Who's going to
catch me? They'll never take me alive and I'll take out several of them
(whom ever them is: LS, Corp Sec, innocent bystanders, etc...) in the
process."


Jill

Who can kill any thread just by replying to it. :>
Message no. 27
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:35:40 +0100
C J Anderson said on 10:12/17 Jul 96...

[my ideas snipped]
> Shall we just drop a piano or safe on the PC's and get it over with.

That's not what I was trying to say. It's more a matter of the players
understanding that they cannot go around doing whatever they want to --
not without consequences anyway. I'm not saying you should immediately
let "the world" retaliate if they do something, but if it looks like it's
getting out of hand you should let them know they can't continue without
running into trouble they're not equipped to handle.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I've often tried to hold the sea, the sun, the fields, the tide.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 28
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:58:00 GMT + 2:00
@ > Seriously though, I try very hard not to kill characters,
@ > while presenting very challenging adventures. 'Course if a
@ > PC does something stupid he's dead.

In our group we have an un-spoken rule that if after everything
has been done to save a character has failed and its down to a last
roll on the GM's side, we insist that the roll be made in the open.
In this way we sort of erased the nice GM option. Hell in one of our
games, a character died. The GM complained at us for weeks afterward
that he was having nightmares about the way the character died.

But I agree stupidy=short life span in the case of shadowrunners.
@ > Oh, I have no problem killing stupid characters. Of course, some
@ nights that means my players would do nothing but burn through PCs about
@ as fast as they could create them. It just seemed to me that a lot of
@ postings were more concerned with ways to do them in, rather than
@ creative situations for them to have to "brain rather than brawn" their
@ way out of.

*Slight Spoiler Alert*
Force the characters into a similar situation to which our
characters where. In the final scene of Harliquin, while the final
scene is in progress, we had to stop the 'somebodies personal
guards'. Try stop those people when only armed with pistols, and two
grenades, both mages are barely conscious. Talk is the only option
out. It is wonderful what some plastercine, a watch and a couple of
LED's will do. We ended up with amnesty from the High-you-know-who,
as well as his personal protection. We let them pass, then told the
air-elemental to free the whelp (we had her true name).

There comes a point in any system where the character are good, I can
count on one hand the number of times that my character has fired his
gun in the last 15 or so sessions. Fire-fights become boring once you
have enough skill and compensatory cyberware to counter almost any
threat.

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 29
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:41:00 -0500
> *Slight Spoiler Alert*
> Force the characters into a similar situation to which our
> characters where. In the final scene of Harliquin, while the final
> scene is in progress, we had to stop the 'somebodies personal
> guards'. Try stop those people when only armed with pistols, and two
> grenades, both mages are barely conscious. Talk is the only option
> out. It is wonderful what some plastercine, a watch and a couple of
> LED's will do. We ended up with amnesty from the High-you-know-who,
> as well as his personal protection. We let them pass, then told the
> air-elemental to free the whelp (we had her true name).
>
> There comes a point in any system where the character are good, I can
> count on one hand the number of times that my character has fired his
> gun in the last 15 or so sessions. Fire-fights become boring once you
> have enough skill and compensatory cyberware to counter almost any
> threat.
>
> Andre'

Oh, I think a good GM could raise the threat level to compensate.
There certainly is enough dangerous stuff in the system.....

C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\
Message no. 30
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:38:40 GMT + 2:00
<snip a lot of my own comments>
@
@ Oh, I think a good GM could raise the threat level to compensate.
@ There certainly is enough dangerous stuff in the system.....

Certainly, a GM could raise the threat levels higher and higher,
the fine line however arises in that (IMHO) the characters dispite
everything are not saviours of the world every ten minutes. The fine
line, is that line which exists between the characters being in
something that is just above their heads, and save the world
campaigns. Heck comming to think of it, the characters are pipsqeaks
compared to some the individuals out there. Once the characters start
to deal with (in both senses of the word) potent NPC's they change
their position from an unknown shadowrun group to those who's names
are on enought peoples lips (especially those in high positions).
Enough people are going to be curious to start digging in their
pasts. Then the corps for which they did runs are going to start
getting worried.

Danger is not the problem in the system, there are enough things to
take out characters, but in the end, unless the GM wants to run a
HACK-N-SLASH (tm) campaign, eventually the characters have to use
thier brains as the campaign (almost inevitably) shifts to one of
political intregue, and so forth.

One factors slightly off the topic, is that I noticed a lot of
players don't include plans for their characters retirement. Does
this indicate that these characters are too young and have not
thought about their future, or is it that they are willing to blow
alll their earnings on the latest cyberware. Just curious, as it
turned out out characters have been together for about 6 years as a
team. Started in 2049, just started 2054, already our mage is moaning
that he is to old to be shadowrunning (hes 42 this year). The
youngest member of our team to date is 20 (but he just joined), all
the other members are well into their thirties.





Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 31
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:16:38 -0500 (CDT)
Something similar happened last night in my game.

Let me preface this by saying my players are not a typical group of
shadowrunners. They do mostly semi-legit stuff, things folks in mystery
fiction would do.

Anyway, Our Heroes were hiding from folks from Tir Tairngire in a mafia
owned hotel. The Tir Forces (the "Tir Ghosts" from Super Tuesday) called
the cops with a fake tip, which they hoped (and were right) that it would
flush the runners. It did.

After the fracas with the Ghosts, the rigger hot wired a car so they could
get away. However, there wasn't enough room for everyone, so the Troll
and the Combat Shaman stayed behind, intending to flee on foot.

And then the cops (led by a Lone Star Mage) finally catch up to the alley
where the firefight had gone on. The Troll remembers that Foci are worth
a lot of money, so he decides to start shooting. Thanks to the Shaman's
City Spirit, they were able to get away eventually, but this was after
killing 2 cops and injuring a third. Since they didn't have time to
loot the LS Mage's body, they took his dying body with them into the sewers.

Troll realizes that the Mage is the only surviving cop who saw his face.
Troll's legit life flashes before his eyes, and he geeks the cop. Not
because the cop was shooting at him, or because he was in a lot of danger.
But because Grendel wanted the mage's stuff.

The Combat Shaman had no problems with this. He's an ecoterrorist in his
spare time, and "cop is corp without the 'r'."

Just wait until the rest of the group catches up with those two.

--
Rick Jones "You want to tell me who to shoot?"
rick@******.com "Christ, I don't know. Everybody but me, I think."
Meyrick@***.com --Hawk & Spenser, Valediction
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 32
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:39:09 -0500
Andre' wrote:
> One factors slightly off the topic, is that I noticed a lot of
> players don't include plans for their characters retirement. Does
> this indicate that these characters are too young and have not
> thought about their future, or is it that they are willing to blow
> alll their earnings on the latest cyberware. Just curious, as it
> turned out out characters have been together for about 6 years as a
> team. Started in 2049, just started 2054, already our mage is moaning
> that he is to old to be shadowrunning (hes 42 this year). The
> youngest member of our team to date is 20 (but he just joined), all
> the other members are well into their thirties.
>
> Andre'

Just a thought, maybe the players don't think they'll live long enough
to enjoy their retirement, or maybe they don't think the GM (I'm not
pointing any fingers) will have enough ideas to keep it going until the
PCs retire. My players never seem concerned with that either, except
one, but his father owns a small corp in Tir Tangire. Just a few random
thoughts.....

C J Anderson

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Message no. 33
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:37:45 +0000
On 17 Jul 96 at 15:51, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> >Nononono... I didn`t want to WASTE my players (not that they fell for
> >it, anyways), but teach them a lesson in being careful and not acting
> >for biasses (now they teached ME a lesson :-/). Low powered

> One time I had a player who was going to geek some street squatter.
> The "squatter" told the player to buzz off. It was mostly, get out of
> *my* living space type of thing. The player, who was sitting on a
> harley, was just going to blow him away, because it's easier to shoot
> someone then have to role-play the scene of: "I'm just going to be here
> a bit, chill." What to do? The guy was coming across as a pathic old
> man defending what little he had.
>
> I ended up, having the "squatter" be a street sam out on a stake out.
> He pulled out an smg, and put a few rounds into the player. The player
> turned tail and ran.
Hm, what about other squatters seeing the player (err, the character of
course) kill the squatter, and a) spreading the word, and b) when the pla...
the character leaves his Harley standing there, puncture the tires, or
disassamble the whole thing. Maybe telling a (known) LS-Undercover Cop about
the characters' whereabouts (and with enough squatters pointing your way
whenever a cop comes along and yelling "He's got a SMG!" your live _will_ be
problematic at least :-). This I mean by "Low powered". Don't hose 'em down,
let them regret it. Add a dog to the squatter that sits next to the corpse and
whines over the corpse. Make them feel bed: They / He just killed someone
completly inncocent. Oh, and noone near this character (known to be with him)
should ever again try to use squatters as information source - "Yeah, sure,
one can enter the building through the back door and sleep right next to these
crates all right, null security!" sure .-)

> >Not opposition, just a bad feeling in the players' and characters'
> >guts.
> This only works if the players have any compassion. I've been in
> groups who think nothing of blowing NPCs away, because "Who's going to
> catch me? They'll never take me alive and I'll take out several of them
> (whom ever them is: LS, Corp Sec, innocent bystanders, etc...) in the
> process."
Hm, then the next run is planned (parallel to the next run that's a "normal"
(hah!) Shadowrun, of course). When they've proven they`re dangerous
psychotics, someone will finally hire a shadowrunner team "to get these
bastards dead or alive, and dead's preffered". Sniper-on-the-roof,
Bomb-at-the-car, Flashbang-Grenade-just-after-you-sneaked-on-Corp's-
territory-silently, whatever you like. But those 'runners will be
professionals, so there's a reason why they're well armed and trained. With a
squatter, there's normally none.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Random Encounters (was: Living Conditions), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!