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Message no. 1
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:42:19 -0700
Ok, maybe I'm stuck in AD&D land, but *if* I wanted to use some sort
of random method to determine priorities, does anyone have a house
rule on this?




==
AdamL

"The good die first."
"But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."



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Message no. 2
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:14:22 -0400
Adam Lewis wrote:
> Ok, maybe I'm stuck in AD&D land, but *if* I wanted to use some sort
> of random method to determine priorities, does anyone have a house
> rule on this?
>
You could mean two things by this - either allocating the priorities
as normal, but in a random order, or choosing a random priority for
each slot (so you could get straight As ;-).

The latter system is simple - relabel the priorities as follows:
A => 5, B => 4, C => 3, D => 2, E => 1, and then just roll a D5 for
each slot.

The first system is a little more complex. You have to ensure that
a priority isn't chosen twice, so the easiest way to do *that* is to
roll D100 for each slot and assign A to the highest and so forth.

You could also switch to a point system and roll dice for how many
points you have available to spend on each thing. My point system
is 120 points, averaging to 24 points per slot, so 4D10 works nicely.
This ends up with low skill, very low attribute chars, though. How
about allocating 20D10 amongst the various slots and then rolling?
You could choose to up your chances of getting a mage by sacrificing
skill dice and so forth... Hmm... Maybe it should be 22D10, anyway.

James Ojaste
Message no. 3
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:40:49 -0700
--"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA> wrote:
> >
> You could mean two things by this - either allocating the priorities
> as normal, but in a random order...>

Yes, this is what I meant. What I'm tryin to do is figure out a way
to keep the elves/trolls and mage/shamans down to a minimum.

IIRC the book says that 10% of the population has some magic in them
and only 10% of those people can actually become mages/shamans. So I
figure that's 1% of the population.

Now, runners aren't made up of a typical slice of the population so
maybe 10% of runners could have a Priority A or B for magic.

Aslo, if I'm basing my campaing in Seattle the breakdown shows the
following:

Humans: 63%
Elves: 13%
Trolls: 1% (not sure)
Dwarves: 3% (not sure)
Orks: 19%
other: 1%

So, I wanted to use these numbers to affect how common an elven runner
is.

I don't to completly take away a players opportunity to make his own
character, but I want some limits right from the begining.
==
AdamL

"The good die first."
"But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."



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Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:55:06 -0500
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 10:41 AM

>> You could mean two things by this - either allocating the priorities
>> as normal, but in a random order...>
>
> Yes, this is what I meant. What I'm tryin to do is figure out a way
>to keep the elves/trolls and mage/shamans down to a minimum.

Then just tell your players that only one of them can be a mage. Don't rely
on dice if you can avoid it.

>Aslo, if I'm basing my campaing in Seattle the breakdown shows the
>following:
>
>Humans: 63%
>Elves: 13%
>Trolls: 1% (not sure)
>Dwarves: 3% (not sure)
>Orks: 19%
>other: 1%
>
>So, I wanted to use these numbers to affect how common an elven runner
>is.

Only problem with this approach is something you said elsewhere (that I
snipped): Runners aren't a typical cross-section of the population, and if
anything, the runner population is going to be skewed towards a *high*
percentage of metahumans, and not the reverse. You're likely to have a lot
more metas, particularly trolls and orks, in any given runner population.
Those population percentages are for the city as a whole, not necessarily
the shadows of the city.

>I don't to completly take away a players opportunity to make his own
>character, but I want some limits right from the begining.

Then set them yourself by GM fiat, not by a dice roll.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 5
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:55:57 -0400
Adam Lewis wrote:
> > You could mean two things by this - either allocating the priorities
> > as normal, but in a random order...>
>
> Yes, this is what I meant. What I'm tryin to do is figure out a way
> to keep the elves/trolls and mage/shamans down to a minimum.
>
Ah - so you don't want random priorities, you want demographically
correct statistics to be reflected in priority allocation.

> IIRC the book says that 10% of the population has some magic in them
> and only 10% of those people can actually become mages/shamans. So I
> figure that's 1% of the population.
>
I thought that Awakenings said that 1% was magically active and only
10% of those could be full mages...

> Now, runners aren't made up of a typical slice of the population so
> maybe 10% of runners could have a Priority A or B for magic.
>
You've hit the nail on the head - the statistics for runners don't
match those for the rest of the world, and so the following breakdown
breaks down.

> Aslo, if I'm basing my campaing in Seattle the breakdown shows the
> following:
>
> Humans: 63%
> Elves: 13%
> Trolls: 1% (not sure)
> Dwarves: 3% (not sure)
> Orks: 19%
> other: 1%
>
> So, I wanted to use these numbers to affect how common an elven runner
> is.
>
First off, you have to decide what the correct proportions are - orks
and trolls would be elevated, elves would probably decrease, dwarves
might increase a bit and humans would adjust to add up to 100. :-)
How about:
Humans: 50% 01-50
Orks: 30% 51-80
Elves: 10% 81-90
Dwarves: 5% 91-95
Trolls: 5% 96-00
to give nice round numbers and a convenient D100 table. Mages would
be similar:
Mundane: 90% 1-90
Adept: 5% 91-95
Aspected: 4% 96-99
Full Mage: 1 00
using your 10% figure.

> I don't to completly take away a players opportunity to make his own
> character, but I want some limits right from the begining.
>
Well, you'd basically be choosing the race and magic type at random,
thus taking those choices away from the player - that's one reason I
suggested the 22D10 point system thing. If they really want to play
a mage, they can allocate lots of dice to their Magic slot and with
any reasonable luck get enough points to give them the level of mage
they want.

James Ojaste
Message no. 6
From: Wolfchild <nathan.olsen@*******.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:18:27 -0500
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Yes, this is what I meant. What I'm tryin to do is figure out a way
> to keep the elves/trolls and mage/shamans down to a minimum.
>
> IIRC the book says that 10% of the population has some magic in them
> and only 10% of those people can actually become mages/shamans. So I
> figure that's 1% of the population.
>
> Now, runners aren't made up of a typical slice of the population so
> maybe 10% of runners could have a Priority A or B for magic.

If you really want to keep the magic and metas down to a realistic minimum
(laughs at realisim in roleplaying *ha*ha*ha*), just do what we do over
here. We only allow 1 magician and only 1 *or* 2 metas in our average
group of 5. It is a random roll as to who gets to choose first and once
all the cool choices are gone, everyone else is mundane human. Yes a
player can choose to be a meta AND magician, but will probably irritate
the other players in the process.

Wolfchild - "Discinctaque in otia natus."
--
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/' / \,_/ .\ veterem atque antiquam amoves?" /. \_,/ \ `\
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| ,-|/ / ,_\,_/_ silent, and only the moon howls. _\_,/_ \ \|-, |
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Message no. 7
From: Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:55:19 -0400
<snip: limiting awakened and metas>

You could do something like this (adapted from the Amber Diceless
Roleplaying Game). Give everyone 120 points using that SR3 point system
adaption someone posted. However, if the GM wants only 1 mage, everyone
"bids" points for the right to be the only mage. Player A says "That's
worth 8 points to me", Player B says "Ha, thats worth 25 points easy."
Player A says "26!" etc. etc, and if the last bid was player B for 42
points, Player B makes up a mage with 78 points for attributes, skills and
resources, and player A makes up a mundane with 120 points. After the
mage, you auction off the one or two metahuman slots you have. Sure, you
can bid for and win both, but don't expect a lot of points. I'd have a
minimum bid, as well, to keep player bid-rigging to a minimum.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 8
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:46:14 -0400
Mike Elkins wrote:
> You could do something like this (adapted from the Amber Diceless
> Roleplaying Game). Give everyone 120 points using that SR3 point system
> adaption someone posted. However, if the GM wants only 1 mage, everyone
>
Me me me! ;-)
http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/SR/

> "bids" points for the right to be the only mage. Player A says
"That's
>
Memories of Amber... :-)

> worth 8 points to me", Player B says "Ha, thats worth 25 points easy."
> Player A says "26!" etc. etc, and if the last bid was player B for 42
> points, Player B makes up a mage with 78 points for attributes, skills and
> resources, and player A makes up a mundane with 120 points. After the
>
I don't think that the remaining bidders should get off scott free.
Perhaps paying half-bid? You don't want frivolous bidding...

> mage, you auction off the one or two metahuman slots you have. Sure, you
> can bid for and win both, but don't expect a lot of points. I'd have a
> minimum bid, as well, to keep player bid-rigging to a minimum.
>
Call the minimum bid either the base cost or half the base cost.
Things shouldn't end up too upset...

James Ojaste
Message no. 9
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:56:53 EDT
If you really want to randomize it, get a pair of percentile dice and make the
players roll against the percentage chance of being metahuman as set out in
the Seattle section of the rulebook. If they make they roll, they can generate
the character normally.

Seems a little blunt-force to me, but that's a simple way to do it.
Message no. 10
From: Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:57:26 -0400
>> worth 8 points to me", Player B says "Ha, thats worth 25 points
easy."
>> Player A says "26!" etc. etc, and if the last bid was player B for 42
>> points, Player B makes up a mage with 78 points for attributes, skills
and
>> resources, and player A makes up a mundane with 120 points. After the
>>
>I don't think that the remaining bidders should get off scott free.
>Perhaps paying half-bid? You don't want frivolous bidding...

Well, if you must exceed the previous bid, I don't see how frivoulous
bidding would occur. Also, the loosing characters don't get any benefit,
so why make them pay? Think of it as a consolation prize, they get 120 pt
characters while magic boy has to pay "the going rate".

The only problem I can see is Player A is desparate to play a mage and
Player B is desparate to yank player A's chain, and continually bids 1
higher. If you allow the bidding to come to it's obvious end, Player A
will be an upset mundane, and Player B will have a mage will all 1's for
attributes and skills, when he would really rather be a street sam anyway.
If you've got this kind of situation, play Monopoly, or better yet,
Illuminati.

Doouble-Domed Mike
Message no. 11
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:39:23 -0400
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> Mike Elkins wrote:
>
> > worth 8 points to me", Player B says "Ha, thats worth 25 points
easy."
> > Player A says "26!" etc. etc, and if the last bid was player B for 42
> > points, Player B makes up a mage with 78 points for attributes, skills and
> > resources, and player A makes up a mundane with 120 points. After the
> >
> I don't think that the remaining bidders should get off scott free.
> Perhaps paying half-bid? You don't want frivolous bidding...

I doubt that'd happen quite so much in Shadowrun. Unlike Amber, Shadowrun
PC's are supposed to actually *get along*, so running your opponents' bids
to weaken their characters probably wouldn't happen much.

And also, unlike Amber, the stuff you're bidding for in this system -- the
right to be a mage, the right to be a troll -- has a fixed value. Paying
80 points in Amber to be the best at Warfare may be a good deal, even
though your character sucks otherwise, because he really is *the* *best*
at Warfare. No one else can challenge him there. OTOH, paying 80 points
to be a mage in SR and then having nothing left to build your character
with is almost certainly a bad deal.

The "bidding" system has some potential, if only to see which players want
these spots the most, but I think you'd have to introduce lower *and*
upper limits to keep things from getting wacky. You'd also have to have
some very competitive players. (Mine generally aren't, *except* when
we're playing Amber. Or Paranoia, though that's been years...)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:44:21 -0400
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At 10:55 AM 9/18/98 -0500, Patrick wrote:
>Only problem with this approach is something you said elsewhere (that
I
>snipped): Runners aren't a typical cross-section of the population,

Exactly. Say for example, there was an RPG out there called "Computer
Geek". Even if they did print an exact number for the percentage of
the population that has a BS in Computer Science in the background
material for the game, would it make much sense to force that same
percentage on the PCs?


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PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
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Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Randomizing PC generation
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:36:41 +0200
According to Adam Lewis, at 7:42 on 18 Sep 98, the word on the street
was...

> Ok, maybe I'm stuck in AD&D land, but *if* I wanted to use some sort
> of random method to determine priorities, does anyone have a house
> rule on this?

You could let the players roll 1D6 for each priority, re-rolling if they
get a 6 (or let them pick the priority for that column on a 6). Also re-
roll if a value has already been taken. So, in essence, you end up with
the following:

Race: 1D6 (re-roll on 6)
Magic: 1D6 (re-roll on number already taken, and on 6)
Attributes: 1D3 to choose from remaining priorities
Skills: 1D2 to choose from remaining priorities
Resources: take the priority that's left

Alternatively, roll up the attribute ratings by rolling 1D6 for each, next
picking the Attribute priority that allows that many attribute points, and
then roll up the other priorities as above.

--
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Unconsciousness is no excuse.
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