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Message no. 1
From: XaOs <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:50:48 -0500
> That brings up another item that has always bugged me a bit. To my
> knowledge, magicians do not have any range or movement penalties when
> casting spells at targets. This seems, in nothing else, unbalancing in
> terms of game mechanics since the other method of taking out targets:
> range combat, does. So...

Granted, for game balance, you're probably right, but...

> Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
> (combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
> whatever the method is, to cast the spell?

This is probably a holdover of an attitude from AD&D? (Or any other game
system in which casting spells takes time).

The difference here is that Shadowrun spells happen at the speed of thought.
Remember that the mage is targetting the aura. The aura is generally pretty
easy to spot once you've got line of sight (background count, or the
presence of a lot of living things could change this). A lot of motion
shouldn't change this. HOWEVER, if the mage is doing a bunch of other
things, you may want to reduce his dice pool (I may be confusing my
mechanics with White Wolf here. Ignore as appropriate).

-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
Message no. 2
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:06:29 -0400
On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Lars Ericson wrote:

->David Foster wrote:
->
->> Well, I was trying to refer to the fact that there will still be
->> modifiers on the spell's TN due to range, and electronic magnification
->> will not assist in reducing these (although the optical would). I
->> misspoke myself.
->
->That brings up another item that has always bugged me a bit. To my
->knowledge, magicians do not have any range or movement penalties when
->casting spells at targets. This seems, in nothing else, unbalancing in
->terms of game mechanics since the other method of taking out targets:
->range combat, does. So...
->
->Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
->(combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
->whatever the method is, to cast the spell?

They should have range modifiers if the range is great enough to
warrant it (but who casts spells at a half-kilometer without binoculars)?
But movement modifiers? No, I'd have to disagree, you may be moving but
unless you're moving to somewhere that interrupts LOS it's not going to
affect your ability to see your target.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 3
From: Lance Dillon <riffraff@********.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:19:44 -0400
David Foster wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Lars Ericson wrote:
>
> ->David Foster wrote:
> ->
> ->> Well, I was trying to refer to the fact that there will still be
> ->> modifiers on the spell's TN due to range, and electronic magnification
> ->> will not assist in reducing these (although the optical would). I
> ->> misspoke myself.
> ->
> ->That brings up another item that has always bugged me a bit. To my
> ->knowledge, magicians do not have any range or movement penalties when
> ->casting spells at targets. This seems, in nothing else, unbalancing in
> ->terms of game mechanics since the other method of taking out targets:
> ->range combat, does. So...
> ->
> ->Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
> ->(combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
> ->whatever the method is, to cast the spell?
>
> They should have range modifiers if the range is great enough to
> warrant it (but who casts spells at a half-kilometer without binoculars)?
> But movement modifiers? No, I'd have to disagree, you may be moving but
> unless you're moving to somewhere that interrupts LOS it's not going to
> affect your ability to see your target.
>
on the other hand, it does mention on page 108 of sr3 under walking and
running:

'
walking
when walking, if the character is combining the movement with an action
that requires some form of success test, the character takes a +1 target
modifier. if the movement is over rough terrain or through obstacles,
the character takes a +2 target modifier.

running
characters who are running take a +4 target modifier to any tests
attempted while running (+6 over difficult ground).
'

since casting a spell is a sorcery test, i would have to say the above
to rules apply...meaning there are movement penalties when casting
spells...

elemental manipulation spells do have range penalties, just not combat
spells..


--
Lance Dillon
Network Administrator
Nielsen Media Research
--
You want a prediction about the weather, you're asking the wrong Phil.
I'll give you a winter prediction:
It's gonna be cold,
It's gonna be grey,
and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.
Message no. 4
From: Razor Girl <sprawlg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:49:04 PDT
>on the other hand, it does mention on page 108 of sr3 under walking
>and running:
>
>'
>walking
>when walking, if the character is combining the movement with an
>action that requires some form of success test, the character takes >a
+1 target modifier. if the movement is over rough terrain or >through
obstacles, the character takes a +2 target modifier.
>
>running
>characters who are running take a +4 target modifier to any tests
>attempted while running (+6 over difficult ground).
>'
>
>since casting a spell is a sorcery test, i would have to say the >above
to rules apply...meaning there are movement penalties when >casting
spells...
>
>elemental manipulation spells do have range penalties, just not >combat
spells..
>Lance Dillon

I believe the point behind the post was regarding the TARGET's movement.
You are absolutly correct that a moving magician would suffer an
increase target number. But the target's movement, unless it involved
moving out of LOS, wouldn't effect the casters target number for combat
spells.

Your other point about elemenatal manipulation spells is also correct.
There are range penalties, caster's movement penalties AND target
movement penalties. Plus any other ranged combat modifier that could be
applied. (cover, fog, etc.) Combat spells affect the target directly,
elemental manipulation spells send energy or matter at the target like
any other ranged weapon.


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Message no. 5
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:24:57 -0500
----------
> From: Lars Ericson <lericson@****.EDU>
>
> Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when
casting
> (combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
> whatever the method is, to cast the spell?

First off, let me thank you for putting your actual question in an
easy to quote block, rather than at the ass-end of a huge paragraph.

Secondly, I wouldn't give them a penalty for range, but I could see
applying penalties for movement, since its very difficult (IMO) to
cast a spell while running.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and
hands, and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how
to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to
fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting
value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 6
From: Slipspeed <atreloar@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:00:12 +1000
Lars Ericson wrote:


>Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
>(combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
>whatever the method is, to cast the spell?


No more so than anyone else trying to do a similar thing that isn't
magical - firing a gun at a moving target at long range while running is the
obvious one that comes to mind.

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
"It's called tourist season, so why can't we shoot them?"
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:03:11 +0200
According to XaOs, at 12:50 on 13 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> > Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
> > (combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
> > whatever the method is, to cast the spell?
>
> This is probably a holdover of an attitude from AD&D? (Or any other game
> system in which casting spells takes time).
>
> The difference here is that Shadowrun spells happen at the speed of thought.
> Remember that the mage is targetting the aura. The aura is generally pretty
> easy to spot once you've got line of sight (background count, or the
> presence of a lot of living things could change this).

There are range penalties for sorcery, they're on page 111 of the
Grimoire. Beyond 5 km, a target is considered to be invisible, an up until
that distance it gets more and more difficult to cast a spell that will
have any effect.

Also, spellcasting suffers from the normal visibility (and injury)
modifiers, as explained at the very end of page 182, SR3. The only thing
mentioned here that doesn't affect spellcasting is movement of the target
and/or caster.

> A lot of motion
> shouldn't change this. HOWEVER, if the mage is doing a bunch of other
> things, you may want to reduce his dice pool (I may be confusing my
> mechanics with White Wolf here. Ignore as appropriate).

Increasing the TN will work better in SR, IMHO...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
On a wave of mutilation...
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Range & Movement Spell Penalties (Was Re: Electronics &
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:27:05 EDT
In a message dated 9/13/1998 12:58:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
xaos@*****.NET writes:

> > Q: Should a magician have range and/or movement penalties when casting
> > (combat) spells since it is more difficult to tune or focus on, or
> > whatever the method is, to cast the spell?
>
> This is probably a holdover of an attitude from AD&D? (Or any other game
> system in which casting spells takes time).

I actually thought that there were modifiers for this -IF- the magician moved
to abruptly, and there -is- a Range Modifier table that existed in Grimoire 2,
and -could- be reappearing in SR3 stuff, if it hasn't already.

-K

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