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Message no. 1
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Rant somewhat long Re:kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:47:06 -0400
{{snip example}}

>Personally, I am against this thread, and being so, I have to add to it.
>:P
>
>Psychological reinforcement breeds a much healthier and willing
>individual. Physical reinforcement leads to resentment and underlying
>tension. The reason kids aren't learning wrong from right is the fact
>that the responsibility of parents has plummeted in the last 30 years.
>The parents have foisted responsibility for their children on the schools,
>and due to lack of funding, NO ONE ends up teaching these kids what is
>wrong or right.

So the parents have given up their responsability and the answer is to
increase educational funding? How's that? How about this, make the
parents responsible for the kids action as well as the kids. If the kid
does something seriously wrong the parent must be held accountable as
well. Plus Corpreal punishment must be included in a childs upbringing as
well. When did we start having all these problems with kids rebelling?
Check the records it was right after the Psychologists decided we
shouldn't spank our children. Prior to that Children were spanked as a
matter of course and by and large they behaved, after, well just look at
the problems we are having with kids these days.

>I can tell you, when my Dad spanked me on the few occasions he did, it
>didn't make me feel guilty about what I had done, it merely made me more
>resolved not to get caught.

Your personal experience is hardly all encompassing Most of the friends I
grew up with were spanked (ok growing up in a lower class welfare
neighborhood some were abused but that's a different subject) and by and
large the ones who were behaved better than the ones who weren't. In my
own family my brother and I were my fathers responsability to discipline
while my sister was my mothers. We were spanked she was not. Which one is
the troublemaker, Guess? Who doesn't expect to be held accountable for
their actions, Bingo. When I was spanked it made me think about what I
did and why I might not want to do that again, there was also some
thought about doing it again but not getting caught but invariably I
realizzed it wasn't worth the risk.

>If we cut our military budget by a third and devoted that back into the
>schools, made them safe,

This is my favorite. Where exactly do you think the military budget goes?
IIRC about 1/3 goes to salary (try cutting that much and see how long the
government stands, look at Russia for an example), bennifits, housing,
food, and such for the soldiers/civilian employees of the armed services.
Of the remaining 2/3 about 20% goes to maintenance and upkeep of
equiptment and facilities (you want to close more bases see how the
people in the cities and towns where the bases are feel), about 20% goes
to R&D (this is just about the only significant source of govt. sponsered
R&D and much of it ends up in the educational system as research grants
to colleges not to mention the civillian spin offs that are created), and
the rest (~25%) goes to purchasing new equiptment. So the only area left
to cut is new equiptment. Well we could probably do that I mean we are on
average 30 years ahead of any potential enemies in tech. Of course our
whole military strategy is to have Technological superiority to the point
that we need the smallest number of soldiers possable, so we would need
to increase manpower somewhat (damn there goes some of the savings).
Also where does that new equpitment money go? Well sure some of it
(possibly as much as 10%) ends up as profits for the contractors, but the
rest goes to pay salaries of the people who make it. Try telling those
people who are loosing their jobs that it is for their childrens
bennefit. We're talking about close to 10% of the jobs in the country,
what happens to the stock market when the unemployment rate goes from 4%
to 14% overnight, huh. Not to mention that most of those jobs are Union,
How many other unions would go on strike until their union brothers are
hired back, can you say bye, bye economy?

>and paid our teachers what they deserve to be
>paid, we would significantly reduce inner city crime in 2 generations.
>I'd bet my that on my grandfather's grave.

What exactly do teachers deserve to be paid? I hate to burst your bubble
but salaries are set by supply and demand not the value of the job being
performed. If it was the other way around then secretaries would be just
about the highest paid people around (Try finding a well running office
without a good one) and Athletes and Entertainers would make next to
nothing.There are not many people who can play a sport well enough to be
a professional so the ones who can make millions. There are thousands
and thousands of people who can be teachers so they don't make that much.
But how much do they make really? Well let's see the averahe job has 260
work days a year -10 holidays -5 sick personal days -10 vacation days
leaving 235 work days a year. In most school juristiction's there are
about190 school days a year. The average work day for full time employees
is 8hrs without a paid lunch. The average school day is 6.5 to 7 hours
long but I'll call it the same cause there are papers to grade, reports
to read and tests to make up after hours (call it 1.5 to 2.5 hrs a day).
Plus I know the teachers typically have to work 1 week before and after
the school yeas abnd possibly another 2 weeks in the summer for an
adittional 20 days and I'll give them the bennefit of the doubt and say
they don't have enough sick days to matter. That means the average
teacher works 3 weeks less that the average person. In my home State of
Massachusetts the average annual income in the state was around $28,000.
Starting Pay for a teacher was $27,500, The highest paid teachers made
$46,000 (more that 15yrs teaching plus a masters degree). It seems to me
that they were being paid pretty well.

Further Reading

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