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From:	The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:	Rat's Money Perspective
Date:	Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:55:03 -0500

Message no. 1 Thank you, Rat, for bringing another perspective to the ever-popular
money debate. Quick question: What do you suppose the proportion is
of GMs to pure players involved in the debate? Most players don't care how
they get paid, as long as they DO get paid.

Anyway, limiting an employee to corps scrip only brings up new issues.
What if their are a couple of items the corp doesn't produce? Then the
corp has to buy them wholesale from a producer, or take one of two options:
Allow the employee to exchange his scrip for other money (and spend it
elsewhere) or deny the employee that item.

As for limiting scrip possesion. . .even if it's illegal, and entire
shadow economy can spring up around scrip. You can't legislate the
acceptance of money. If a merchant is willing to take your scrip for an
item, there's not much anyone can do about it. That merchant, and others
like him, can then deal with scrip any way they wnat. . .and it will
eventually wind up in the hands of someone who wants to make money selling
scrip and appropriate fake passes to use it.

A lot of the arguments so far are valid for cash. Let's see how electronics
changes it. . .

Assume everyone at a corp has a credstick. It records records transactions
that the user makes. So all the money is electronic. So maybe there's a
handshake-type lockout that only allows the user to exchange money with an
authorized user of scrip. That solves the problem of wanton proliferation
of corp money into the great wide open.

Does that mean that they won't issue it to non-corpers? No, it does not.
However, they may very well charge an arm and a leg for it, or at least
scrape a profit. Consider the following example:

Renraku computers sell for 2 grand on the open market, like Nybbles 'N'
Bytes. The same model will sell for between 1200-1500 in the Arcology Mall.
People want a deal, so they go to the mall, and there's an office where they
can exchange their NuYen for a certified scripstick, as it were. Say you get
2000 Nuyen exchanged into whatever money is called by Renraku. You
probably pay a small amount (say 50 Nuyen) for the privilige. But you get to
buy at discounted prices (on some items, anyway) and Renraku makes a little
profit. Of course, only people with SINs can do this, which is why N'N'B is
still around.

Also, some items may be more expensive in the mall. Like clothes. The really
chic stuff is probably not made by Renraku. Do some comparison shopping.

J Roberson

From:	Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Rat's Money Perspective
Date:	Fri, 10 Sep 1993 13:44:37 EDT

Message no. 2 >>>>> "R" == RJR96326 <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU> writes:

R> Thank you, Rat, for bringing another perspective to the
R> ever-popular money debate. Quick question: What do you suppose the
R> proportion is of GMs to pure players involved in the debate? Most
R> players don't care how they get paid, as long as they DO get paid.

This is true... :-) As for proportions... I have not idea, and I'm not
even going to try to guess.

Then again, most Shadowrunners are paid under the table.

R> Anyway, limiting an employee to corps scrip only brings up new
R> issues. What if their are a couple of items the corp doesn't
R> produce? Then the corp has to buy them wholesale from a producer,
R> or take one of two options: Allow the employee to exchange his
R> scrip for other money (and spend it elsewhere) or deny the employee
R> that item.

Note that I said partially paid in scrip, not totally. Few, if any,
corps are totally self-sufficient. Even the Renraku arcology isn't
(even though they want you to believe it is).

R> As for limiting scrip possesion. . .even if it's illegal, and
R> entire shadow economy can spring up around scrip. You can't
R> legislate the acceptance of money. If a merchant is willing to take
R> your scrip for an item, there's not much anyone can do about it.
R> That merchant, and others like him, can then deal with scrip any
R> way they wnat. . .and it will eventually wind up in the hands of
R> someone who wants to make money selling scrip and appropriate fake
R> passes to use it.

Take, for example, the Renraku Arcology Mall. Just about anyone going
in there will have no problem spending 'Raku scrip. But Mitsuhama
scrip is next to worthless in the 'cology. Not because of any law, but
because it belongs to a rival corp.

Take another example, the VISA card adds in the US: "And don't forget
your VISA card, because they don't <blah> and they don't take American
Express."

R> A lot of the arguments so far are valid for cash. Let's see how
R> electronics changes it. . .

R> Assume everyone at a corp has a credstick. It records records
R> transactions that the user makes. So all the money is electronic.
R> So maybe there's a handshake-type lockout that only allows the user
R> to exchange money with an authorized user of scrip. That solves the
R> problem of wanton proliferation of corp money into the great wide
R> open.

Right; kind of like the credit card readers you find at most stores
today. If they don't have a reader with a modem to connect to a
specific credit company, you can't use their cards at that store. Try
using your VISA at McDonald's sometime :-).

R> Does that mean that they won't issue it to non-corpers? No, it does
R> not. However, they may very well charge an arm and a leg for it,
R> or at least scrape a profit. Consider the following example:

I didn't say that non-corpers wouln't be paid in scrip; they certainly
would. Why? Same reasons that they pay their regular employees with
scrip: it costs the corp practically nothing to pay in scrip.

R> Renraku computers sell for 2 grand on the open market, like Nybbles
R> 'N' Bytes. The same model will sell for between 1200-1500 in the
R> Arcology Mall.

Ok, they own the Mall, so they don't have to enforce overhead charges
on themselves, which results in lower retail costs, which results in
higher sales...

R> People want a deal, so they go to the mall, and there's an office
R> where they can exchange their NuYen for a certified scripstick, as
R> it were.

For such an operation to make a real profit, *everything* at the Mall
would have to be paid for with scrip alone, and converting nuyen to
scrip and scrip to nuyen will both have a surcharge.

Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
PGP Public Key Block available upon request Ask about rat-pgp.el v1.61
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