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Message no. 1
From: shadowrun@********.demon.co.uk (Andrew Norman (Shadowrun))
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:57:21 +0000
<delurk after listening since 1992 :) >

Hi,

I was working through the matrix book last night and was trying to
figure out the different tests for the creation of a cyberdeck/terminal.

Design
One of the uses of the successes generated in this test is the
reduction of the installation/cook test target numbers ... is this 2
successes per -1 in **either** the install or cook ... or is this 2
successes per -1 in **both** the install or cook test.

And which dice pools are applicable in these tests ... because as the
time between tests would be resonable I can see the players having full
pool dice available for each test and always using the maximum
permittable.

-Andrew

<relurk>
--
"What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in Reason? how
infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing how expresse and
admirable? in Action, how like an Angel? in apprehension,
how like a God? the beauty of the world, the Parragon of
Animals;"
- Hamlet, Shakespeare
Message no. 2
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:15:55 +0100
According to Andrew Norman (Shadowrun), on Monday 15 December 2003 10:57
the word on the street was...

> <delurk after listening since 1992 :) >

How can you listen in for 11+ years and _not_ say something in all that
time? :)

> Design
> One of the uses of the successes generated in this test is the
> reduction of the installation/cook test target numbers ... is this 2
> successes per -1 in **either** the install or cook ... or is this 2
> successes per -1 in **both** the install or cook test.

Page 55 says "Every 2 successes from this test can be used to reduce the
target number for EITHER the Cook or Installation Tests by -1. The
successes can be divided between these two tests as the player desires."
Ignoring the dodgy math implicit in this statement[1], this means that you
decide which of the two tests to apply each of your successes to. For
example, if you have 4 successes that you want to use here, you could
lower the Installation Test TN by 2, the Cook Test TN by 2, or both TNs by
1.

[1] If taken literally, it would mean that successes will _in_crease the
TN, not lower it :)

> And which dice pools are applicable in these tests ... because as the
> time between tests would be resonable I can see the players having full
> pool dice available for each test and always using the maximum
> permittable.

Probably the best rule here is to let the pools refresh once for the entire
task -- that is, the whole design-and-build process for each component --
so that you will have to split them across the various tasks. The GM could
also decide that they only refresh once for the whole deck construction.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: shadowrun@********.demon.co.uk (Andrew Norman (Shadowrun))
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:46:43 +0000
On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 10:15, Gurth wrote:
> According to Andrew Norman (Shadowrun), on Monday 15 December 2003 10:57
> the word on the street was...
> > <delurk after listening since 1992 :) >
> How can you listen in for 11+ years and _not_ say something in all that
> time? :)

I have said one or two things and even posted the first draft on the New
Zealand entry for the rest of the world guide when the project started.
I also posted a little bit in a A-10 discussion back in 1995 ... but I
tend not to post unless I have a question or something more intelligent
than a "me too" to post.

> Probably the best rule here is to let the pools refresh once for the entire
> task -- that is, the whole design-and-build process for each component --
> so that you will have to split them across the various tasks. The GM could
> also decide that they only refresh once for the whole deck construction.

I think the one pool per component construction makes sense. It is going
to involve a little more paper work as the design/construct/install
could be a lengthy time apart.

Which pools apply here ... as far as I can deduce it would be the
hacking pool and task pool.

This is the first bit of matrix stuff I have looked at ... until now the
Matrix (in the game I run) has been an area for NPCs to handle for the
players.

-Andrew

--
"What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in Reason? how
infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing how expresse and
admirable? in Action, how like an Angel? in apprehension,
how like a God? the beauty of the world, the Parragon of
Animals;"
- Hamlet, Shakespeare
Message no. 4
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:01:49 +0100
According to Andrew Norman (Shadowrun), on Monday 15 December 2003 11:46
the word on the street was...

> I have said one or two things and even posted the first draft on the New
> Zealand entry for the rest of the world guide when the project started.

That must be why your name looked vaguely familiar, then :)

> I think the one pool per component construction makes sense. It is going
> to involve a little more paper work as the design/construct/install
> could be a lengthy time apart.

The simplest solution is to not allow dice pools to be used at all. That
way you don't have to keep track of how many pool dice have been used,
wonder whether dice used for deck construction are unavailable during
shadowruns in the mean time, and more of that kind of hassle.

> Which pools apply here ... as far as I can deduce it would be the
> hacking pool and task pool.

I'm not sure I'd allow Hacking Pool, as that is based on the MPCP rating of
a deck that isn't being used at the time the tests are made.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: shadowrun@********.demon.co.uk (Andrew Norman (Shadowrun))
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:00:24 +0000
On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 13:01, Gurth wrote:
> That must be why your name looked vaguely familiar, then :)

That and I have contacted you for permission to use some of the random
generators you have posted now and then (but I think that was a while
back).

> The simplest solution is to not allow dice pools to be used at all. That
> way you don't have to keep track of how many pool dice have been used,
> wonder whether dice used for deck construction are unavailable during
> shadowruns in the mean time, and more of that kind of hassle.

This is what I begun to suspect ... too much paperwork and hassle ;)

> I'm not sure I'd allow Hacking Pool, as that is based on the MPCP rating of
> a deck that isn't being used at the time the tests are made.

Then apart from the task pool then there is no pool that can be used as
far as I can see.

So the issue has been resolved :) ... allow the task pool for each task
(I have yet to see a task pool higher than 1 anyway) .. and allow it to
be used for all the tests, with it refreshing between each of the tests
(which in reality becomes only one or more extra dice to the roll).

-Andrew

--
"What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in Reason? how
infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing how expresse and
admirable? in Action, how like an Angel? in apprehension,
how like a God? the beauty of the world, the Parragon of
Animals;"
- Hamlet, Shakespeare
Message no. 6
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:39:47 -0800
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:46:43 +0000
"Andrew Norman (Shadowrun)" <shadowrun@********.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
> Which pools apply here ... as far as I can deduce it would be the hacking
pool and task pool.

Wait a sec: until you have a deck, you don't really have a hacking pool IIRC.
So how do you use hacking pool to build the deck? Yeah, 'only characters with
a cyberdeck can use a hacking pool.' BBB3 p44. So... what pool? Based on
what? How? A can of worms if I ever saw one. Is the deck a part of the shop?
How good is it? Do we make the new gut buy a turtle deck just to build his
cyberdeck?

'The world wonders'
--Anders
Message no. 7
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:51:05 +0100
Andrew Norman wrote :

> (I have yet to see a task pool higher than 1 anyway)

That's quite easy actually: a rating 2 Encephalon will give you 2 task
pool dice. So will a Chipjack Expert Driver (it can even give you 3 --
used to be 6+ before the last M&M errata), but then again most people
consider the CED as it is to be quite broken and house rule it to only
give access to existing pools.
;)

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Really Simple Matrix Question
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:45:13 +0100
According to Andrew Norman (Shadowrun), on Monday 15 December 2003 15:00
the word on the street was...

> That and I have contacted you for permission to use some of the random
> generators you have posted now and then (but I think that was a while
> back).

I have a pretty good memory, if given the proper stimulation to use it :)

> Then apart from the task pool then there is no pool that can be used as
> far as I can see.

Same here.

> So the issue has been resolved :) ... allow the task pool for each task
> (I have yet to see a task pool higher than 1 anyway)

That really depends on how much cash you've got to spend. It's fairly easy
to get a reasonable Task Pool (though it's harder now than it used to be
under Shadowtech rules).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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