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Message no. 1
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Recoil
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 17:53:18 -0500
PH:
I think a body roll vs damage code-recoil is a bit severe,
especially if you apply it across the board. Why not just add +2 recoil
to subsequent shots from a class of weapons (sniper rifles, anything with
more than 10S, whatever). Or a similar fix.

J Robreson
Message no. 2
From: "L.T.Bryant" <cs5025@****.WLV.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: recoil
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 14:09:32 +0000
As i got all this stuff second hand of JackFrost/alex heres my
ideas , Recoil is a tricky besat as any twilight 2000 2nd ed
players will tell you but if you want to implement it you could
always take a side ways out ,Dont bouther trying to make up
recoil for the guns lift them out of the GDW system and say that
a carrictor has a capacity to absord recoil = to str*2 and run
it like the GDW stuff does but add 1 to the target numbers for
each point of uncontrolled recoil .This would meen keeping track
of the number of shots fired more carfuly but it may work.

Add futher ideas here\|/
Message no. 3
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: recoil
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:30:39 -0600
> recoil for the guns lift them out of the GDW system and say that
> a carrictor has a capacity to absord recoil = to str*2 and run
> it like the GDW stuff does but add 1 to the target numbers for
> each point of uncontrolled recoil .This would meen keeping track
> of the number of shots fired more carfuly but it may work.

Ah, but there are some significant flaws both with the numbers you propse
and the requirements. First of all, to lift the numbers from GDW would
mean procuring a list of firearms, either photocopying or buying T2K or
TNE - not everyone has access to these books. Secondly, if one takes a
Shadowrun character with a Strength of 4 and a Twilight:2000 recoil
of 2 (typical of the assault rifles) they can fire 4 shots with no
penalty, and that's before taking into account recoil compensation. For
a game mod, I recommend Rat's method.

->Hmmm. In my experience (mostly rifles/shotguns, but I've done a bit of handgun
->work), I always preferred the lighter firearms. Sure, the heavy ones absorb
->recoil a lot better, but if you fire a rifle (even something big and nasty like
->a 30.06 or a 30.30) from arm support position and wrap the strap around your
->forearm, you get a lot more accuracy with very little recoil.

This was in response to my assertion that realistically, it's not the
weight of the weapon that counts but the power/mass ratio. The phrasing here
makes me think the post was meant to countermand that, but as I read it
my original statement is supported: big, heavy rifles (lots of mass) will
offer more recoil comp.

However, Shadowrun is pretty abstract, and if I were still playing I would
try to keep it that way. A point of recoil is a point of recoil, whether from
a pistol or a Vindicator. Instead of breaking things down by gun type,
muzzle velocity, charge, calibre, and other factors, just say "x eliminates
y amount of recoil". If you want more detail than that, play GURPS.

>One very important thing to remember here..... (You really should have
>remembered this one Jeremy from the GURPS list...)

Hey, I did! but again, Shadowrun's pretty abstract, and the scale is
smaller. Assesing a blanet -2 to -4 penalty per shot (even aimed shots)
for buck fever, overcompensation, bullet shyness, and that other factor
I keep forgetting is one thing in a system where stats are rated on 3d6,
but quite another on the 1-6+ scale of Shadowrun.

>People who strain to keep the gun in line without bucking much typically
>miss. I tried this once... .45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol 8 shots, 4 seconds.
>My arms were tired, but I always ABSORBED the shock with my wrists and
>elbows, never put much strength in it.

Which just proves the Zen of Marksmanship. . .don't try to aim, simply aim.
:)

>But I am sticking to GURPS.. And maybe I will post again next month..

Me too. . .GURPS Cyberpunk. . .though maybe I should call it GURPS Mafia
Pawns. . . :)

J Roberson
Message no. 4
From: Pieter Van Dyck <Pieter.VanDyck@***.AC.BE>
Subject: Recoil
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 19:32:22 +0200
I've got this little question:
Are there any modifiers for strength as to recoil compensation?
I can imagine a troll with STR10 gets away with carrying a minigun,
while a squatter with STR2 can not.

Comments, hints, rules ...

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Message no. 5
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recoil
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 15:32:11 -0500
>I've got this little question:
>Are there any modifiers for strength as to recoil compensation?
>I can imagine a troll with STR10 gets away with carrying a minigun,
>while a squatter with STR2 can not.

I believe FoF says that for every two STR points above 3, you get 1 point
of recoil compensation.

Matt
Message no. 6
From: JOHANNA BURWELL-KALES <burwell@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recoil..
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 20:47:29 -0700
Responding to the question someone posted about recoil modifiers,
( I never look at the name ).
What I did to handle this was talk to players about this and we
decided that they should pay the money for recoil compensation and do
away with the recoil modifiers altogether.
More later
Message no. 7
From: "Bracket <la7hfw@*****.ucc.hull.ac.uk>"
Subject: Recoil
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:26:23 +0000
Hello

On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Joel Ricker wrote:

> [Renegade dons former military uniform.] Full auto is good for
> suppressing an area, but in a solid prone or fox hole position, it can
> still be an accurate weapon. With the M-60, which fires only Full Auto, I
> managed to cut the head off a target at about 100m. The recoil is not
> too bad, braced in a foxhole position. I know, "how many times will I
> dig a foxhole in Shadowrun?" but I figured you'ld like to know.

Sorry to show my ignorance, but I've never fired any sort of automatic
weapon [the UK is pretty strict about these things].

How effective *are* things like tripods in keeping the gun steady?

-----------------> Thats right!
----------------------> You've been Bracketed!
((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bracket: H.F.Wolverson@***.hull.ac.uk
Message no. 8
From: Joel Ricker <a018907t@*********.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Recoil
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:25:58 -0500
> Sorry to show my ignorance, but I've never fired any sort of automatic
> weapon [the UK is pretty strict about these things].

I never would have had the opportunity if I hadn't joined the Army.

>
> How effective *are* things like tripods in keeping the gun steady?

The main thing that they do is keep the gun from falling over, and so you
have a freehand to place on top of the weapon to keep the weapon from
recoiling up. Overall, moderately effective (The M-60 still has quite a
kick)

------------------------------------------------
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And is heard no more." - Macbeth, Act V Scene V
Renegade William Shakespeare
a018907t@*********.seflin.lib.fl.us
jricker@*******.fsu.edu
Message no. 9
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recoil
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:33:26 -0600
On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Bracket <la7hfw@*****.ucc.hull.ac.uk> wrote:

> Sorry to show my ignorance, but I've never fired any sort of automatic
> weapon [the UK is pretty strict about these things].
>
> How effective *are* things like tripods in keeping the gun steady?

Very. Orders of magnitude more steady, especially with good bracing and
a heavy tripod.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
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Message no. 10
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Recoil
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:52:50 +1000
Bob Ooton writes:

> Right, but that's another reason why I think that a 3-5 strength should be
> the base 0 recoil comp. 1-2 should be +1 recoil (they aren't strong enough
> to handle firearms that well.) then go up from there. 6-8 = -1. 9-11 =
> -2. 12-14 = -3. Etcetera. Or however you wish to run it in your game.
> Whatcha think?

Probably more logical, yeah. A tad more finicky, however it's really not a
concern. But then again, I am in no way qualified to comment on the effects
of the firers strength on the recoil he suffers from automatic weapons :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

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