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Message no. 1
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:53:45 +1000
> Jeez, that's not that long. I started in my previous incarnation, when
> guns were first introduced in Japan. Of course, I was a hide-bound
> samurai, so all I learnt was that bullets hurt.

And this explains a lot...

> Lordy - I actually came up with a legitimate combat tactic. I came up
> against this "mugger" in a GURPS game GreyWolf is running - we both
> ended up with very nasty guns pointed at each other's sternums. One of
> my friends distracted him (and got shot up for his trouble). I tried to
> think of the best way to get out of his line of fire while still being
> able to shoot him and I came up with "fall down". As I said, he shot my
> pal, I landed on my back and I put three heavy blaster shots into his
> cranium. And believe it or not, I'd never seen of or heard of this
> tactic before in my life.

Applause from the gallery. I thought you knew what you wree doing and here you
tell me that it was a guess? Geez.. good work Rand ;)

> True - going back to me and my arcade games ( :) ), I've seen people be
> able to do that on a quickdraw game (my best time is about .3 of a
> second). The thing is, I can certainly move faster than that if you
> timed me going from gun down to gun up and shoot. The real question is,
> how long does it take the brain to process enough information to get
> you reacting to the threat? (I know, I'm going away from the original
> issue here, but I'm really quite curious about this). Imagine being in
> a place where you weren't expecting trouble around the next corner, but
> you had your gun drawn. You see a guy pop into view with his own gun
> drawn. How long does it take you to register him as a threat, bring
> your weapon into line, sight in and shoot?

Well in my experience - limited to paintball and some rudimentary "real" stuff
(that I wont go into) - if youre going to hit "anything" that pops round the
corner and the weapons is already out.. then your reaction time is VERy fast..
since ANYTHING there is a threat and automatically 'shot' at.

if youre going to examine any possible threat then it really depends on how good
your eyes are, how fast your brain works and how fast your body moves. This is
not as bad as it might seemhowever, because while you examine the threat youre
going to be aiming at it at the same time. The problems start when two or more
things pop up at once.. a problem I tend to solve by dodging first "then"
examining targets :) You might look silly - but at least youre still on one
piece (figuritivy speaking - for paintball anyway).

> > Maybe that is why the groups I work with do so well. The GMs can't
> figure out how the hell to deal with someone who actually knows what to
> do. <g>
>
> Uh-oh. GreyWolf, didn't you say your friend was an ex-military girl?

um.. yes? but Ive known another guy who is worse than her.. for a long time and
I can give you some tips.. :)

> See, I was thinking of the section where he was talking about
> languages. Now, most runners are going to be in places where they are
> native speakers, most of the time. But I just realised you could
> equally (and more appropriately for runners) apply this to etiquette.
> Instead of having to know the language to fit in (although CitySpeak
> could come in handy), you need to learn the manners. Hmmm?

thats what the ettiquite skills covers. the higher the skill the better you are
at picking the right moves for any given situation. Read the description :) Its
just what youre looking for ... for the most part anyway.

> > My second biggest tip is to spend ten bucks, make the people at the
> local bookstore a little antsy, and order the Ranger handbook. Read
> the parts about ambushes, counter ambushes and assaults. It won't all
> be immediately applicable, but it will help you to look at things. Use
> your nefound wisdom and spend an hour drawing up a list of questions
> you want to ask the Johnsons and things you would want to get for a
> general mission, then come up with a few more specialized missions and
> the items for that. And take it with you to the game. Make it your
> PCs "Survival Checklist".

Ranger handbook.. thats the american rangers handbook.. right? there is an
australian one too.. but I think they are different...

> I don't think I could get that in Australia. Would it (or something
> else similar) be on the net somewhere?

I dont know myself.. maybe someone else does though?

> It is that fast. As for planning, watch "The Dirty Dozen", "Kelly's
> Heros" (that is a BIG shadow run), and especially "Ronin" (watch the
> arctypes spring to life).

A group I play with for Battletech ran a merc group who started off trying ti
imitate kelly's heroes.. funny thing is it actually worked and it turned out to
be a great game that went for over 4 years.. and still goes on but in another
form (some players left - some new players arrived..)

> Aussie. :) And slur the 'ss'. It should sound like a 'z', not an 's'.
> Aw-zee. Aw-zee. You silly yanks (of which I am one originally, so don't
> get too offended :) ) can never seem to pronouce it right.

Ah I knew there was something wrong with you Doc'...

> You reckon? I must have pistol aptitude and rifle incompetence. :) On
> the other hand, getting out of the arcade and into the real world,
> things might change around some.

Rand, try the arcade stuff with the recoil from the guns. Things change :) I
suck at the arcade but I aint too bad on the range. Well I wasnt a year ago..
havent been since... hit the x ring on my 1st shot with a .44 magnum... guess
I'm just lucky..

GreyWolf
Message no. 2
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > Jeez, that's not that long. I started in my previous incarnation,
when guns were first introduced in Japan. Of course, I was a hide-bound
samurai, so all I learnt was that bullets hurt.
>
> And this explains a lot...

Don't it just?

8-)

> Applause from the gallery. I thought you knew what you wree doing and
here you tell me that it was a guess? Geez.. good work Rand ;)

It's when you fool the GM into thinking it was a well-planned move that
you know you're on the road to success...:)

> if youre going to examine any possible threat then it really depends
on how good your eyes are, how fast your brain works and how fast your
body moves.

That's what I'm talking about. Most shadowrunners can't go through a
corp building shooting at everything that pops up.

> thats what the ettiquite skills covers. the higher the skill the
better you are at picking the right moves for any given situation. Read
the description :) Its just what youre looking for ... for the most
part anyway.

Duh. :)

I wasn't talking about applying it to game mechanics. I was talking
about the thought processes behind it.

> > Aussie. :) And slur the 'ss'. It should sound like a 'z', not an
's'. Aw-zee. Aw-zee. You silly yanks (of which I am one originally, so
don't get too offended :) ) can never seem to pronouce it right.
>
> Ah I knew there was something wrong with you Doc'...

And now you know just what that is...

> > You reckon? I must have pistol aptitude and rifle incompetence. :)
On the other hand, getting out of the arcade and into the real world,
things might change around some.
>
> Rand, try the arcade stuff with the recoil from the guns. Things
change :)
> GreyWolf

McDuh! :) I play the arcade games where the guns recoil on you, wussy
as that recoil may be. You learn to compensate - like Kevin said,
skills will transfer from one to the other fairly quickly - usually.

Anyway, JUST talking arcade games, I rock with pistols and I suck
rotten, liquified cheese with rifles. 8-)

*Doc' is rushed to hospital after somehow managing to shoot himself in
the foot with an arcade game rifle that fires LIGHT beams, dammit!*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 3
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:02:09 -0400
At 16.53 07-09-99 +1000, you wrote:
>Applause from the gallery. I thought you knew what you wree doing and here
you
>tell me that it was a guess? Geez.. good work Rand ;)

Kid's a natural. <g>

>Ranger handbook.. thats the american rangers handbook.. right? there is an

US Army, the 75th.

>australian one too.. but I think they are different...

oooooh..... I'm interested. Your rangers are mostly long-range recon?


CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"
Message no. 4
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:54:21 +1000
IronRaven wrote:

> At 16.53 07-09-99 +1000, you wrote:
> >Applause from the gallery. I thought you knew what you wree doing and here
> you
> >tell me that it was a guess? Geez.. good work Rand ;)
>
> Kid's a natural. <g>
>
> >Ranger handbook.. thats the american rangers handbook.. right? there is an
>
> US Army, the 75th.
>
> >australian one too.. but I think they are different...
>
> oooooh..... I'm interested. Your rangers are mostly long-range recon?

I'll see what I can find out... I dont think the book is in commercial production
however.. tho I am probably wrong...

GreyWolf
Message no. 5
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:32:45 -0400
At 11.54 07-12-99 +1000, you wrote:
>I'll see what I can find out... I dont think the book is in commercial
production
>however.. tho I am probably wrong...

Paladin Press, they have the contract with the Gov't last time I looked.


CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"
Message no. 6
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Red Dot Sights [going OT - at least off Shadowrun somewhat]
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:32:55 -0400
At 11.54 07-12-99 +1000, you wrote:
>I'll see what I can find out... I dont think the book is in commercial
production
>however.. tho I am probably wrong...

Paladin Press, they have the contract with the Gov't last time I looked.


CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"

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