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Message no. 1
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Reflexes?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 05:55:23 -0400
Hello!

Having just gotten into Shadowrun, I've got 1 or 2 questions...


1. In the back of the Main SRII rules, it provides a lot of
stats for stuff in the Street Samurai book. I was wondering what the
difference between Boosted and Wired Reflexes was?(Most of the other
stuff is self-explanatory<sp?>:)

2. What's Bioware? While on the WWW, I saw a lot of pages
talking about Bioware, and so am curious... Where would one find
it(Book-Wise)?

3. What would people rate the books as most important/best?
Right now, I have the SRII Main book, and The Grimoire.

Thanks!

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 2
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:20:37 BST
OK chummer, my turn to pre-empt the other guru's :-

> 1. In the back of the Main SRII rules, it provides a lot of
> stats for stuff in the Street Samurai book. I was wondering what the
> difference between Boosted and Wired Reflexes was?(Most of the other
>stuff is self-explanatory<sp?>:)

I forget whether they posted all the stats for boosted in the back
of the SR2 Book, but they are low-impact versions of wired... basicly.
Instead of permanently hard-wiring in nerve boosters and all the other
cyber-mumbo, they replace certain poarts of the nervous system, and
then put you on a course of drugs and electro-shock to jazz you up to
full speed. The most important difference is that Boosted cannot be
damaged (except by something that kills you anyway, like being burnt to
a crisp :-) ), and that they cannot be removed or up-graded, so be
very careful to buy the best you vcan if you get them.

Oh yeah, and they don;t add as much to your initiative. Is that in the SR2?


> 2. What's Bioware? While on the WWW, I saw a lot of pages
>talking about Bioware, and so am curious... Where would one find
>it(Book-Wise)?

Bioware's in Shadowtech, definitely a compulsory book for most runners,
the stuff is genetically engineered replacement organs for your sammy.
some of those items ought to be fitted before they let you have your
Shadowrunner-passing-out-certificate :-)


> 3. What would people rate the books as most important/best?
>Right now, I have the SRII Main book, and The Grimoire.
Erm.. this ought to be in the FAQ really, but we can't decide on the
answer...I personally recommend /Shadowtech and at least the Neo A's
North America, becuase you need a place to play... it all depends on
your game style.

Basicly ignore the gear-books if you don't want to bother with them,
and pick up one of the place-books, so you can actually set your
campaign within the SR world as we know it...

Phil (Renegade)
Oh yeah, and welcome on board....where's that .sig quote from? Or
am I just being very ignorant? ;-)
Message no. 3
From: Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 09:19:34 CDT
>OK chummer, my turn to pre-empt the other guru's :-

>> 3. What would people rate the books as most important/best?
>>Right now, I have the SRII Main book, and The Grimoire.
>Erm.. this ought to be in the FAQ really, but we can't decide on the
>answer...I personally recommend /Shadowtech and at least the Neo A's
>North America, becuase you need a place to play... it all depends on
>your game style.
>
>Basicly ignore the gear-books if you don't want to bother with them,
>and pick up one of the place-books, so you can actually set your
>campaign within the SR world as we know it...

And grab Virtual Realities if you get the chance. I personally think SR2
Main book, Grimoire(Grimoire 2?), Virtual Realities, and a place-book(I've
got Seattle) All the others are basically next. The Rigger's Black Book is
cool, but not seriously necessary, whereas Virtual Realities is a necessity
for any decker character(what kind of decker would actually BUY a premade
deck?!)
Message no. 4
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:16:42 BST
> And grab Virtual Realities if you get the chance. I personally think SR2
> Main book, Grimoire(Grimoire 2?), Virtual Realities, and a place-book(I've
> got Seattle) All the others are basically next. The Rigger's Black Book is
> cool, but not seriously necessary, whereas Virtual Realities is a necessity
> for any decker character(what kind of decker would actually BUY a premade
> deck?!)

I'm not eeven goig to start on my personal hatred of PC deckers, but I would
suggest that you wait for the Virtual Realities 2 book, that's on the way
any time soon.... :-( (unless of course they speed it up, in whichj case..
:-) hurray!

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 5
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:52:34 -0500
>
> Hello!
>
> Having just gotten into Shadowrun, I've got 1 or 2 questions...
>
>
> 1. In the back of the Main SRII rules, it provides a lot of
> stats for stuff in the Street Samurai book. I was wondering what the
> difference between Boosted and Wired Reflexes was?(Most of the other
> stuff is self-explanatory<sp?>:)
>
Bosted 1, 2 ,a and three are not like wired 1, 2, and 3. They are chemical
treatments, with maybe some nanotech, and once you get them, you can never use
Synaptic accelerators, wired reflexes, or a VCR. Boosted 3 gives +2 reflex, +2
dice, boosted 2 gives 1 or 2 reflex but only one die, and boosted one gives
either one die or some bopnus to reflex. I never use them. I don't remember
the functionig of the rest of the stuff bieng all that obvious, and many of
the guns have usefull accesories incuded, not described in SRII, so get the
steat sam catalog. Sorry.

> 2. What's Bioware? While on the WWW, I saw a lot of pages
> talking about Bioware, and so am curious... Where would one find
> it(Book-Wise)?
>
Bioware is in shadowtech. It is described well in another response, and let
me just add that it does not consume essence, but can boost survival and
combat effectiveness greatly. It is possible to make a good sammurai with
only bioware. It is sick to make one with optimal combinations of both.
Bioware will reduce magic rating, but some of it is low impact and usefull to
mages or PA's.

> 3. What would people rate the books as most important/best?
> Right now, I have the SRII Main book, and The Grimoire.
>
For my caracter, Shadowtech is most important. As I said, SSC is pretty
much required- the chart in SRII is just for convienience. You could put off
Shadowtech- lots of GMs don't want that stuff in starting caracters anyhow,
and It is so expensive that most runners can't get it after chargen. I don't
think many modules use stuff from ST either.
While some of the moduals have nice, involved plots, I've had fun with
plain, stright forward runs also. Just keep track of who sees charcters break
the law, or force them to make friends and enimies, and thing will self
complicate faster than a biforcation diagram.
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 09:54:25 +0200
> 1. In the back of the Main SRII rules, it provides a lot of
>stats for stuff in the Street Samurai book. I was wondering what the
>difference between Boosted and Wired Reflexes was?(Most of the other
>stuff is self-explanatory<sp?>:)

The differences are that wired refs give greater bonuses: every level adds
+2+1D6 to your initiative. With boosted refs, it goes something like this:
lvl 1: +1D6; lvl 2: +1+1D6; lvl 3: +2+2D6.

> 2. What's Bioware? While on the WWW, I saw a lot of pages
>talking about Bioware, and so am curious... Where would one find
>it(Book-Wise)?

Bioware is to be found in the Shadowtech sourcebook. It's a sort of natural
cyberware, grown from living cells instead of built from nuts and bolts.
It's got advantages and disadvantages over cyberware.

> 3. What would people rate the books as most important/best?
>Right now, I have the SRII Main book, and The Grimoire.

Totally depends on which characters you've got. The Grimoire is a very good
buy in any case, Street Sam Cat, well, depends. You've got nearly all the
stats in the back of the SR2 book, just not the pictures and extra game info
(like, you don't know that the Predator II comes with a built-in smartlink
-- that sort of info is in the SSC).
Corporate Security Handbook is good if you want to know how corps secure
their facilities, though many people on this list feel it gives you nothing
you can't think of yourself.
Shadowtech, if you want to get new cyber- and bioware, is a must buy. Many
people here think it overpowers a game, unbalances it and all that, but IMHO
if applied sensibly it poses no problems whatsoever.
Fields of Fire, same thing as for Shadowtech, but this book has new guns and
mercenary gear instead of cyber and bioware.
Plus location sourcebooks for wherever you want to set your campaign, and
more sourcebooks like the Neo-A Guide to Real Life, Lone Star, etc.
Also, get any net.sourcebooks you can lay your hands on. They're real cheap
(just some downloading and printing), and contain some really good
information (and I'm not just saying this because I've made a few, honest :).


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Coming up after the break: more of the same nonsense!
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Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:23:47 GMT
> From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
> >
> Bioware is in shadowtech. It is described well in another response, and let
> me just add that it does not consume essence, but can boost survival and
> combat effectiveness greatly. It is possible to make a good sammurai with
> only bioware. It is sick to make one with optimal combinations of both.
> Bioware will reduce magic rating, but some of it is low impact and usefull to
> mages or PA's.
>

combining either magic and bioware (PA's do this best) or cyber and
bio can create 'super goons' very fast. If anything shadowtech is
even more powerful than the Grimoire for munchkins, fortunatel many
magicains get rather attached to thier magic ratings (ratings over 6
are very useful for subtle spell casting), there are those GM
discetion body overstress comments and bioware (at least the game
vanalising stuff) is not allowed at startup and is expensive.


However used sensibly both books are good and can give you a useful
edge. The bio only sam is good an the - oh thats a metal detector is
it?? see the comments under synaptic accelerator.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 15:12:09 -0400
On Wed, 5 Jul 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
> combining either magic and bioware (PA's do this best) or cyber and
> bio can create 'super goons' very fast. If anything shadowtech is
> even more powerful than the Grimoire for munchkins, fortunatel many
> magicains get rather attached to thier magic ratings (ratings over 6
> are very useful for subtle spell casting), there are those GM
> discetion body overstress comments and bioware (at least the game
> vanalising stuff) is not allowed at startup and is expensive.

Yeah, I won't have to worry about it...I just picked up
Shadowtech, and its really good!:) As for Munchkins, I dannae hav'ta
worry, for my players aren't(thank heavens), and I run a low-money game
with lots of rp'ing, and grittyness<sp?>

> However used sensibly both books are good and can give you a useful
> edge. The bio only sam is good an the - oh thats a metal detector is
> it?? see the comments under synaptic accelerator.
> Mark

Heck, one of my players is planning on taking over GM'ing for a
while in London(my game's in Seattle and the surrounding area), after the
current mini-campaign they're in is done(I'm almost done with a little
thing I wrote based on a sci-fi novel I read. Been playing it for about
a month...) So I'm thinking of making a Bioware Sammy, though I'll
haveta wait to pick it up...(Probably make a char with some sort of
neurosis against contaminating his body with machines...Bioware would
fit, and it would be an interesting char to play...:) Be weak compared
to other sammys at the start, but if he survives..."I'm totally NATURAL,
thank you very much:)"

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 9
From: Wind Dancer <winddancer@***********.NET>
Subject: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 02:18:59 -0400
Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...

WD
Message no. 10
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 02:42:30 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-24 02:16:48 EDT, you write:

> Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
> Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...
>

If I understand them correctly, Boosted just enhances the person's reaction,
Wired Reflexes enhances the natural responces that a bosy has to external
stimuli.

AirWisp
Message no. 11
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 02:46:44 -0400
At 02:42 AM 8/24/97 -0400, Mike Bobroff wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-08-24 02:16:48 EDT, you write:
>
>> Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
>> Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...
>>
>
>If I understand them correctly, Boosted just enhances the person's reaction,
>Wired Reflexes enhances the natural responces that a bosy has to external
>stimuli.
>
Nope, Boosted also give you up to +2d6 Initiative, depending on the level...

(I beleive the stats are in SSC,and were mistakenly left out of the BBB).

Basically, Boosted Reflexes are cheaper and easier to get than wired, and
are more essence friendly, but are permanent. You can never get anything
different to increase your initiative once they are implanted, like Wired,
a better version of Boosted, or a Synaptic Accelerator...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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Message no. 12
From: Wind Dancer <winddancer@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 03:04:41 -0400
At 02:42 AM 8/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-08-24 02:16:48 EDT, you write:
>
>> Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
>> Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...
>>
>
>If I understand them correctly, Boosted just enhances the person's reaction,
>Wired Reflexes enhances the natural responces that a bosy has to external
>stimuli.

Ok, but what are the stats? I know what Wired REflexes do, but what are the
actual stats that Boosted Reflexes have.

Like in character terms, what do they do?

WD
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 11:18:20 +0100
Wind Dancer said on 2:18/24 Aug 97...

> Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
> Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...

The initiative bonus, and the fact that boosted reflexes can't be upgraded
-- if you have wired-1 you can get it increased to wired-2 when you have
money to spare; take boosted-1 and you're stuck with them (although I
allow them to be removed and replaced by a higher level).

As a suggestion, buy or borrow the Street Samurai Catalog, that answers
many questions :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 13:26:36 +0000
> Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
> Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...

Well, besides the fact that Boosted Reflexes give pissant bonuses?
(Lvl 3 gives +1/+2d6, IIRC, which is a lot less than WR lvl 2, let
alone 3).


There's a line on boosted reflexes that says it 'cannot be upgraded'.
Does this mean it cannot be removed? WOuld removal then kill the
user? Then what if the system's damaged or destroyed? Death?.
I'd say it doesn't mean anything in particular, because no cyber can
be 'upgraded', only taken out and replaced. And if it can be taken
out, you can put something better in instead.
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 15
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 13:28:29 +0100
|Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
|Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...

IIRC, Wired reflexes cost more essence, but offer about 2x the speed
increase of Boosted.

Also, I think there was something about boosted reflexes not being
upgradable, whereas Wired reflexes are...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:44:19 EDT
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 02:18:59 -0400 Wind Dancer
<winddancer@***********.NET> writes:
>Ok chummers, what is the difference between Boosted Reflexes and Wired
>Reflexes other tehn teh cost of essence and doh...



Weeelll . . . Boosted Reflexes doesn't gives you as spectacular an
advantage as Wired Reflexes (Level 2 Boosted isn't quite as nice as Level
1 Wired), but it doesn't cost as muct Essence, it doesn't cost as much
money, either. However, a character with Boosted Reflexes can never have
them removed, nor can he have a VCR or set of Wired Reflexes implanted
afterwards (well, he can, but neither one would work) because Boosted
Reflexes plays around with the persons bio-chemistry. But that's all IIRC
(which I don't, always) since I don't have a copy of the SSC (where the
stats, description, et al for Boosted is contained).



Canthros (having sig problems)
Message no. 17
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 18:41:56 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-24 05:07:07 EDT, you write:

> >If I understand them correctly, Boosted just enhances the person's
reaction,
> >Wired Reflexes enhances the natural responces that a bosy has to external
> >stimuli.
>
> Ok, but what are the stats? I know what Wired REflexes do, but what are
the
> actual stats that Boosted Reflexes have.
>
> Like in character terms, what do they do?

Wired Reflexes implants neural enhancers, synaptic links, and adrenaline
boosters and the like, all of which can be removed and replaced. Boosted
Reflexes is a chemical treatment with some control systems. The nature of the
treatment means it cannot be removed.

Wolfstar
Message no. 18
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:18:15 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-24 07:33:52 EDT, you write:

> There's a line on boosted reflexes that says it 'cannot be upgraded'.
> Does this mean it cannot be removed? WOuld removal then kill the
> user? Then what if the system's damaged or destroyed? Death?.
> I'd say it doesn't mean anything in particular, because no cyber can
> be 'upgraded', only taken out and replaced. And if it can be taken
> out, you can put something better in instead.

It's a chemical treatment, so no, it can't be removed. Actually, I also
ruled that it can't be damaged either, which gives it a little bit of an
edge. But it can't be removed - there's nothing TO remove.

Wolfstar
Message no. 19
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:54:31 -0700
> > There's a line on boosted reflexes that says it 'cannot be upgraded'.

(snip)

> It's a chemical treatment, so no, it can't be removed. Actually, I also
> ruled that it can't be damaged either, which gives it a little bit of an
> edge. But it can't be removed - there's nothing TO remove.

This follows the Street Samurai Catalog: Boosted Reflexes, Muscle
Replacement, Dermal Armor, and the (foo) Filters cannot be damaged. I
don't recall if the Cybertechnology "update" on cyber damage retconned
this or not.

> Wolfstar
Message no. 20
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Reflexes.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 04:39:42 -0400
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Reflexes.
Date: 97-08-26 04:39:35 EDT
From: AirWisp
To: mbreton@**.netcom.com

In a message dated 97-08-25 15:51:09 EDT, you write:

> > > There's a line on boosted reflexes that says it 'cannot be upgraded'.
>
> (snip)
>
> > It's a chemical treatment, so no, it can't be removed. Actually, I also
> > ruled that it can't be damaged either, which gives it a little bit of an
> > edge. But it can't be removed - there's nothing TO remove.

Perhaps there would be a way to remove the Boosted Reflexes then, Full Gene
Cleansing, all that might be needed is a blood / DNA smaple before having the
BR put in to have it removed.

AirWisp
Message no. 21
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 05:15:08 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-26 04:40:34 EDT, you write:

> > It's a chemical treatment, so no, it can't be removed. Actually, I also
> > ruled that it can't be damaged either, which gives it a little bit of an
> > edge. But it can't be removed - there's nothing TO remove.
>
> Perhaps there would be a way to remove the Boosted Reflexes then, Full
Gene
> Cleansing, all that might be needed is a blood / DNA smaple before having
the
> BR put in to have it removed.

Ummm, that's a little bit dicey. I'd say that undergoing a modified
Leonization process might do the trick, but I'd cut the cost of the procedure
in half, leave the maintenance costs the same, and have it count towards your
Leonization limit, but doesn't have the anti-aging effect. Thoughts?

Wolfstar
Message no. 22
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:36:12 EDT
On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 05:15:08 -0400 George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM> writes:

<<Ummm, that's a little bit dicey. I'd say that undergoing a modified
Leonization process might do the trick, but I'd cut the cost of the
procedure in half, leave the maintenance costs the same, and have it
count towards your Leonization limit, but doesn't have the anti-aging
effect. Thoughts?>>


I think that leonization or genetci cleansing, either one, would work,
but only if you can get the virus out of the character's body, first. And
gengineering the Anti-Vampiric Virus would be a bit . . . troublesome,
I'd think.


Canthros
Message no. 23
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 03:36:28 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-26 10:38:09 EDT, you write:

> <<Ummm, that's a little bit dicey. I'd say that undergoing a modified
> Leonization process might do the trick, but I'd cut the cost of the
> procedure in half, leave the maintenance costs the same, and have it
> count towards your Leonization limit, but doesn't have the anti-aging
> effect. Thoughts?>>
>
>
> I think that leonization or genetci cleansing, either one, would work,
> but only if you can get the virus out of the character's body, first. And
> gengineering the Anti-Vampiric Virus would be a bit . . . troublesome,
> I'd think.

Uhhhhh, what? We were talking about removal of Boosted Reflexes. If you want
to talk about HMHVV cures, put in this:
BULL SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!
S
O
R
R
Y

B
U
L
L

N
O

T
R
O
G
S

A
L
L
O
W
E
D
!!!!

Now, the simple matter that everyone overlooked is Shadowtech. It's been Five
years since Shadowtech's release, and in Shadowtech it is stated, "No form of
Zeta-Interferon has yet been perfected that protects against the
Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus(HMHVV) or the most recent form of
VITAS(Virally Induced Toxic Allergy Syndrome)." In other words, there may
have been a prototype that did work. (Yes, I know Tinner already has a cure
for Bull, so this is mostly theoretical.) Or, sometime in the last 5 years,
some techno-geek muttered, "If only Zeta-Interferon were magically active."
and comprehension dawned on the scientists. You never know... =)

Wolfstar
Message no. 24
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:53:45 EDT
On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 03:36:28 -0400 George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM> writes:

> Uhhhhh, what? We were talking about removal of Boosted Reflexes. If
>you want
>to talk about HMHVV cures, put in this:


D'oh! I guess all I saw was 'blood/DNA sample' and my brain made an
instant connection (the wrong one, apparently). My apologies.



/ John Pederson aka Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage \
| I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud |
< and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. >
| --Francis Bacon /----------------------|
\ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 |lobo1@****.com /
Message no. 25
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:39:00 GMT
on 24.08.97 runefo@***.UIO.NO wrote:

r> There's a line on boosted reflexes that says it 'cannot be upgraded'.
r> Does this mean it cannot be removed? WOuld removal then kill the
r> user? Then what if the system's damaged or destroyed? Death?.
r> I'd say it doesn't mean anything in particular, because no cyber can
r> be 'upgraded', only taken out and replaced. And if it can be taken
r> out, you can put something better in instead.

AFAIK that means you can rip 'em out, but you can't replace them. There
was something about the boosted reflexes including a chemical modification
of the subject, so I guess that's something you cannot remove or repeat.
Once you've got boosted reflexes, the only way to get some other reaction
boosting hardware is to let some *very* good corp do it for you (try Ares
or SK).

Tobias
Message no. 26
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:32:44 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-26 10:38:11 EDT, you write:

> I think that leonization or genetci cleansing, either one, would work,
> but only if you can get the virus out of the character's body, first. And
> gengineering the Anti-Vampiric Virus would be a bit . . . troublesome,
> I'd think

And not to mention exorbitantly expensive ... however it might be something
the Ordo Maximus would finance so that they can then use it to modify some of
their own into becoming normal people again ... hey this would be an idea ...
the serum does not cure HMHVV ... it turns it off for a period of time so
that it can not run it's course and turn the person into a vamp ... this
could be used as a form of blackmail ... "Get us the information or you will
become one of us ..." ... talk about a wicked GM plot ...
Message no. 27
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:04:15 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-27 03:37:15 EDT, you write:

> Now, the simple matter that everyone overlooked is Shadowtech. It's been
Five
> years since Shadowtech's release, and in Shadowtech it is stated, "No form

> of
> Zeta-Interferon has yet been perfected that protects against the
> Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus(HMHVV) or the most recent form of
> VITAS(Virally Induced Toxic Allergy Syndrome)." In other words, there may
> have been a prototype that did work. (Yes, I know Tinner already has a
cure
> for Bull, so this is mostly theoretical.) Or, sometime in the last 5
years,
> some techno-geek muttered, "If only Zeta-Interferon were magically
active."
> and comprehension dawned on the scientists. You never know... =

Ah .. but Tinner's solution is magic related .. what would the Ordo do if
they found out someone had developed a technological cure for vampirism ?

Mike
Message no. 28
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Reflexes.
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:09:53 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-27 13:34:38 EDT, you write:

> And not to mention exorbitantly expensive ... however it might be
something
> the Ordo Maximus would finance so that they can then use it to modify some
of
> their own into becoming normal people again ... hey this would be an idea
...
>
> the serum does not cure HMHVV ... it turns it off for a period of time so
> that it can not run it's course and turn the person into a vamp ... this
> could be used as a form of blackmail ... "Get us the information or you
will
> become one of us ..." ... talk about a wicked GM plot ...

In other words, carcerands. I dunno, I really don't see a reason not to -
unless you follow the Mulvihill Version on Vamps with Cyber. My GM keeps
trying to convince me that being only capable of operating at night is a
major disadvantage, but I just don't see it. =)

Wolfstar
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: Reflexes
Date: Wed Feb 13 15:50:01 2002
On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Ice Heart wrote:

> >Yes you can stop the action as quickly as you started it but your body >has
> >a good head start and is quite likely to have squeezed the trigger >three
> >times before your brain catches up.
>
> This is where training comes in.

Training only goes so far, especially when you are training for
two totally different, sometimes contradictory things (i.e. not killing
everything that moves and killing everything that moves with zero
hesitation).

> This means that no matter how far these guys get wired, they will still
> have a faster reflexes for checking fire than pulling triggers. No
> matter how wired my nervous system got, I would not suddenly forget how
> to choose between touching the tip of someone's nose with my fist or
> shattering it.

The issue is not one of having fast enough reflexes to check your
fire or pull your punch, it's of having reflexes that far outpace your
perceptive abilities. It's an issue of reacting physically to a situation
before your brain can process "friend-or-foe" information.
If you see a guy lunging for you, your body will instantly get
into "fight or flight" mode and react. The conscious part of your brain
is the only thing that will stop that reaction. When you train your body
over and over and over again to perform a certain action (like punching
someone in the nose), it becomes muscle memory. Good martial artists
don't "think" about what they're doing. Their bodies just know what to do
and they do it. People who think about what technique they're going to
use or how exactly they're going to counter their opponent's next move
almost always get hit. And I'm not talking about tournaments, I'm talking
about combat.
Now consider a wired combatant. They have trained their bodies to
deal out damage. Their bodies will still have that instinctive "fight or
flight" reaction, and because of their wires, that reaction will be
translated into motion more quickly. But their brains still require the
same amount of time to process sensory input. In that lag time, the wired
combatant's body is going to go a hell of a lot farther towards punching
the person in the nose than the unwired combatant, because the movement
got started a lot sooner. Yes, the "NO, WAIT!" reaction will propagate
just as fast, but when you're talking about an action that can be
performed in the blink of an eye (like pulling a trigger), it may be far
too late.
Your point about perceiving simultaneously with action is a good
one, but you tend to forget that processing all of the information you
receive takes time, and in that time, your reflexive body action may be
wreaking havoc. The other problem is that most of the examples you give
are of training, which is an inherently different situation. In your
sparring example, you *knew* there were people near you, so at some level
you knew the possibility existed that someone could enter your area. The
SWAT cop *knows* that his partners are sometimes going to need to cross
his line of fire, and trains to do the right thing when it happens.
No one is saying that the rule should be invoked in these
situations. The situations where this kind of thing applies are when the
SWAT cop has entered a room with his teammates and is covering a group of
potentially armed people when someone grabs his shoulder from behind.
The other thing to remember is that it's "fight *OR* flight." If
your character is totally untrained to physicaly respond in an aggressive
manner to a surprise movement, he'll likely flinch, run, drop, or
otherwise commence the process of getting away. But how many people who
get Wired Reflexes really fall into this category, eh?

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
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Adam Jury <adamj@*********.com> Assistant List Administrator
DVixen <dvixen@*********.com> Keeper of the FAQs
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> GridSec Enforcer Division
David Buehrer <graht@******.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Reflexes
Date: Thu Feb 14 05:50:00 2002
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt; Now consider
a wired combatant. They have trained their bodies to </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;deal out
damage. Their bodies will still have that instinctive "fight or
</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;flight"
reaction, and because of their wires, that reaction will be </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;translated
into motion more quickly. But their brains still require the </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;same amount of
time to process sensory input. In that lag time, the wired </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;combatant's
body is going to go a hell of a lot farther towards punching </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;the person in
the nose than the unwired combatant, because the movement </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;got started a
lot sooner. Yes, the "NO, WAIT!" reaction will propagate </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;just as fast,
but when you're talking about an action that can be </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;performed in
the blink of an eye (like pulling a trigger), it may be far </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif">&gt;too late.
</FONT>
<DIV></DIV><BR></P>
<P>This was the point I was trying to make, but I think you've made it
better.<IMG height src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emwink.gif";
width></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times,
Serif"><STRONG>Stranger</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times,
Serif"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace"
size=2>Transmitted:&nbsp;&nbsp;
##/##/##&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ##:## ##.###</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace"
size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace"
size=2>Error:&nbsp; Date/Time stamp contains characters
not</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace"
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed
in current language/set.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="Courier New, Courier,
Monospace"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">System:
Downloading character </FONT>fonts from
Host.</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><EM>System: Download
interrupted...~##########</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2><EM>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
contact Matrix service provider.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest
way to share and print your photos: <a
href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click
Here</a><br></html>
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Reflexes
Date: Sat Feb 16 17:40:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lone Eagle" <loneeagle2061@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Please do not post HTML to the shadowrun-list.

Lars
--
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l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
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--
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their level, then beat you with experience.

Further Reading

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Thwap!