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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:39:57 -0400
Robert Watkins wrote:

>Marc A Renouf wrote:
>> The same way you "control the molecular cohesion" of your own
>> cells...Magic. Suspension of disbelief works both ways here. What works
>> for one creature should work for another. That's why most of the
>> abilities that the paranormal animals are listed as "parabiological."
>> That is, the ability uses magic to function.
>
>But what does the magic use? In the case of the mage, it uses an image from
>the mind of the caster. In the case of the innate ability, it'd have to use
>something innate to the creature... the aura.

Yes, it could be reasoned that the ability (which is magical in nature) would
use the aura as the basis for what form to return to when regenerating. That
makes sense. Let me point out that the aura alters when cyberwear is
implanted....what is left is your modified aura -- your "new" aura, as it were.
Thus, now the magic will use the "new" aura as the model to return to when
regenerating. There's no reason in the books that I am aware of to suggest that
the ability wouldn't adjust to the new aura. In fact, it seems that the books
would support this argument. If memory serves, shapeshifters can keep their
cyberware/bioware if it is implanted properly.

I could see disallowing new cyberwear/bioware being implanted AFTER one becomes
a vampire, however, due to the quickness of the regeneration. However, if that
regenerative ability was supressed (through whatever means) for the duration of
the surgery, I think it could be done, and the aura would be adapted accordingly.

This also applies to the mist form argument. Your aura is your aura. Your aura
changes when cyberware is implanted, but it is still your aura. I don't buy
this aura mold concept. Thus, you would be able to keep cyberware while in mist
form.


Justin :)
Message no. 2
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:47:43 -0400
Robert Watkins wrote:

>*sigh* Cyber and bioware do NOT change your aura. What they do is weaken
>it. So "snapshotting" the aura at the time of infection won't notice the
>cyber.

How can something weaken your aura but not change it?? That is an oxymoron. By
weakening your aura, they are changing your aura as well. When you lose essence
you are losing your life force. Your aura reflects your life force to the
astral. When cyberware is implanted, it destroys some of your life force. This
is then reflected in your aura. Thus, when you lose more essence, it is
reflected in your aura.

Your original aura is no longer relevant. Your aura has changed. The
shapeshifting, regeneration, and mist form abilities now have a "new" aura (or
new aura pattern) to use as an example of what to bounce back to. The "old"
aura (aura pattern) is no longer there to use as an example.


Justin :)
Message no. 3
From: Peter Rogers <DarkAngelI@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:09:43 -0700
Your original aura is no longer relevant. Your aura has changed. The
shapeshifting, regeneration, and mist form abilities now have a "new" aura
(or
new aura pattern) to use as an example of what to bounce back to. The "old"
aura (aura pattern) is no longer there to use as an example.

One BIG question. How the hell do you grow back a cyber arm? Huh?

OK. Here's something to think about. Mage B has wired reflexes 2. (I don't
know why, but hey its his life.) It makes him fast as hell in the real world.
Hegoes into astral space, which is his aura leaving the physical body. BOOM!
No more wired reflexes 2. It doesn't transfer into astral space, therefore
its not a part of his arua, therefore it is not part of the Aural blue print.
Message no. 4
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:58:24 -0700
>Your original aura is no longer relevant. Your aura has changed.
>The shapeshifting, regeneration, and mist form abilities now have
>a "new" aura (or new aura pattern) to use as an example of what to
>bounce back to. The "old" aura (aura pattern) is no longer there
>to use as an example.
>
>One BIG question. How the hell do you grow back a cyber arm? Huh?
>
> OK. Here's something to think about. Mage B has wired reflexes 2.
> (I don't
>know why, but hey its his life.) It makes him fast as hell in the
>real world. Hegoes into astral space, which is his aura leaving
>the physical body. BOOM! No more wired reflexes 2. It doesn't
>transfer into astral space, therefore its not a part of his arua,
>therefore it is not part of the Aural blue print.

Your talking about two differnt things here. Yes cyber is part of
your aura and yes it's part of your blueprint. Remember one thing
mages are VERY VERY different that Dual Natured Beings. When a
mage goes astral he doesn't get the reflex boost because his reflex
boost is based on his physical body and astral space is only your
mental psyche. Which is why your reaction is ((Int x 2) + 15) + 1d6.
Also just because you can't grow back a cyber-arm also doesn't
mean that's it's not part of you, but then again it's also not
living.

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:41:54 +0930
Justin Pinnow wrote:
> Yes, it could be reasoned that the ability (which is magical in nature) would
> use the aura as the basis for what form to return to when regenerating. That
> makes sense. Let me point out that the aura alters when cyberwear is
> implanted....what is left is your modified aura -- your "new" aura, as it
were.

*sigh* In "Cybertechnology" it explicitly states that implanting cyber,
etc, DOES NOT change your aura. What it does is _weaken_ the connection
between your body and your aura/soul. So your argument falls down.

And again, if we followed your logic, what stops a vamp getting cyber
placed somehow, paying the Essence, then having it removed? By your logic,
the cyber will regenerate as well!

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:45:40 +0930
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> >*sigh* Cyber and bioware do NOT change your aura. What they do is weaken
> >it. So "snapshotting" the aura at the time of infection won't notice
the
> >cyber.
>
> How can something weaken your aura but not change it?? That is an oxymoron. By
> weakening your aura, they are changing your aura as well. When you lose essence

No... by weakening your aura, they are weakening the connection between it
and you.

> Your original aura is no longer relevant. Your aura has changed. The
> shapeshifting, regeneration, and mist form abilities now have a "new" aura
(or
> new aura pattern) to use as an example of what to bounce back to. The
"old"
> aura (aura pattern) is no longer there to use as an example.

No, it is not. No, it has not. And yes, it is.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 7
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:59:00 PDT
Where does it say that the vampires regeneration ability is based upon its
aura?


I thought the idea of spending essence was to have your body accept
cyberware as part of itself.



Ricky
"It's not a question of being paranoid, the question
is are you paranoid enough"
-strange days
<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 00:52:19 +0930
St. Jean, Ricky wrote:
>
> Where does it say that the vampires regeneration ability is based upon its
> aura?

Nowhere... it's my assumption about how an innate ability would work.
Strangely, no-one else has challenged it... everyone who has objected so
far says the aura changes... :)

> I thought the idea of spending essence was to have your body accept
> cyberware as part of itself.

No... you do that with immuno-supressents. The idea of spending Essence has
always been to show how badly the aura (later refined to the connection
between the body and the aura) has been damaged by the cyber.

That's what Essence draining does, as well.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 9
From: Peter Rogers <DarkAngelI@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:28:34 -0700
Where does it say that the vampires regeneration ability is based upon its
aura?

The books don't specifically state that a vampire regenerates or comes out of
mist form by asking its aura how. However, in FASA's Cybertechnology
Sourcebook, it states that there is an aural template that provides a basic
blue print of what the body should look like if it never underwent
complications (ie. cyberwear/biowear). From this we can deduce that the aura
is the design used tot restructure the body when the body alters from its
aura. As a matter of fact this also explains essence better than I could. The
further the body is from its aura (not distance but in similarity) the harder
it is for the mind to maintain its coherency, therefore resulting in essence
loss. This also means that upon infection with the HMHVV virus, ALL cyber AND
biowear is lost and the body reverts to it natural state. And that is
Regeneration.

I thought the idea of spending essence was to have your body accept
cyberware as part of itself.

Spending essence, again, is the act of alienating the aura from the body.
This reduces mental stability. Your body doesn't accept the cyberwear as part
of the body, though it does accept its presence there (read: it doesn't try
to expel it). Instead, it merely connects to it via living nerves and
hardwired terminals and tells it what to do. Remember, essnce is the
soundness of your central nervous system as well as spirit, meaning how sane
you are, and how connected you are with your aura. Thats why mages and
shamans dislike cyberwear and biowear, because it weakens their connection
with their auras and weakens their ability to channel magical energies
through it.
The DARK
ANGEL
Message no. 10
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:27:39 -0500 (EST)
>
>I don't know why but I just thought of an idea that your
>players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
>hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
>come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
>every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
>(no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
>regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.
>
>
NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


BUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGSBUGS!!!!!!!


BAD!!!!!!

<grin>



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 11
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: regeneration
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:23:02 GMT
Gurth writes
>
> Here, the trick is in altering the Regeneration power. One way to do this
> is to make the player roll a Body test at the end of every turn, with a
> TN equal to the boxes of damage taken (without wound mods); each success
> removes one box of damage. Play around with, and modify, this suggestion
> until you find one that suits you, but whichever one you choose should
> prevent the characters from losing always and automatically ALL damage as
> soon as the turn is over.
>
sounds good for PC's

> (I never liked the regeneration power as printed in the various SR books;
> I think I'll convert it to the above rules for everyone -- if I ever throw
> in a critter with this power, that is.)
>
It's horrible.
The one i heard of (missed the session in question) was regen 1 box
per initative for a vamp yes thats potentially 20-30 odd a round!
This i think was because when we met a shapshifter we sat two
magicians over it astral whatched it stand up and flattened it for
the round in held actions.
This is better than SR2 but much closer two the novels, and keeps it
running over time not in one block. Also considering how much damage
PC's can dish out if they ever get the vamp down and close with an
imovile target, well. If you want something a little less awesome
reduce the regen rate to 1 pox per X/actions.

Mark
Message no. 12
From: Manolis Skoulikas greatworm@*****.com
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:34:46 +0200
Since Shapeshifters are in vogue lately I will indulge all of you in a
question:

Can anybody find aquote where shapeshifters regenerate normal damage of
a rating less than deadly?

In SR2 it was the case that they regenerated all damage at the end of
the turn and only died on failed regen roll.

In SR3 it seems that only deadly damage (and physical drain) is
regenerated. That plainly does not make any sense but where are the
rules or the errata?
(quotes would be appreciated)

The Wiz
Message no. 13
From: Iridios iridios@*****.com
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:10:32 -0500
Manolis Skoulikas wrote:
>
> Since Shapeshifters are in vogue lately I will indulge all of you in a
> question:
>
> Can anybody find aquote where shapeshifters regenerate normal damage of
> a rating less than deadly?
>
> In SR2 it was the case that they regenerated all damage at the end of
> the turn and only died on failed regen roll.
>
> In SR3 it seems that only deadly damage (and physical drain) is
> regenerated. That plainly does not make any sense but where are the
> rules or the errata?
> (quotes would be appreciated)

Pg. 13-14 of Critter Supplement in the 3rd Ed. Gm Screen.

"A creature with the Regeneration power cannot be killed by any damage
except that which injures the spine or brain. Check for this type of
damage whenever the creature takes deadly damage or it's cumulative
damage reaches deadly on the condition monitor.

<summary of check procedure: roll 1d6 when regen creature takes deadly
damage on 1 (or 2 for massive tissue damage) creature dies>

For any other result, the creature suffers the standard damage
penalties for the Combat Turn in which the damage was inflicted, but
the damage vanishes at the beginning of the next Combat Turn."

How's that for a quote.

--
Iridios
"Accept what you cannot avoid,
Avoid what you cannot accept."
Message no. 14
From: Dominic Robertson nightwinder@*********.com
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:14:07 +1100
Manolis Skoulikas wrote:

> Since Shapeshifters are in vogue lately I will indulge all of you in a
> question:
> Can anybody find aquote where shapeshifters regenerate normal damage of
> a rating less than deadly?
> In SR2 it was the case that they regenerated all damage at the end of
> the turn and only died on failed regen roll.
> In SR3 it seems that only deadly damage (and physical drain) is
> regenerated. That plainly does not make any sense but where are the
> rules or the errata?
> (quotes would be appreciated)
>
> The Wiz

Correction. (Mind you, this is only from the SR2 version of the SRC)
Shapeshifters regenerate their ESSENCE in damage boxes per turn. It's in
the regen. stuff about shapeshifters.
Message no. 15
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:17:20 +0100
Dominic Robertson wrote:
>
>
> Correction. (Mind you, this is only from the SR2 version of the SRC)
> Shapeshifters regenerate their ESSENCE in damage boxes per turn. It's in
> the regen. stuff about shapeshifters.

then correct him correctly please: PC shifter do so, NPC shifter regen every
damage at the end of the turn.
Those are NOT the same critters by the rules.

--
Barbie - Prayers are like junkmail for Jesus

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:25:05 +0100
According to Barbie LeVile, at 9:17 on 21 Mar 00, the word on the street
was...

> > Correction. (Mind you, this is only from the SR2 version of the SRC)
> > Shapeshifters regenerate their ESSENCE in damage boxes per turn. It's in
> > the regen. stuff about shapeshifters.
>
> then correct him correctly please: PC shifter do so, NPC shifter regen every
> damage at the end of the turn.
> Those are NOT the same critters by the rules.

Which I never liked... IMHO, a game's rules should apply equally to all
kinds of characters, both PC and NPC. However, I understand that FASA
didn't want the over-powerful critter regeneration rules for PCs; still, a
better fix seems to adjust Regeneration power as a whole, instead of
bolting on a "fix" for PCs...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What a pretty life you have...
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Manolis Skoulikas greatworm@*****.com
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:51:07 +0200
Iridios wrote:
>
> Manolis Skoulikas wrote:
> >
> > Since Shapeshifters are in vogue lately I will indulge all of you in a
> > question:
> >
> > Can anybody find aquote where shapeshifters regenerate normal damage of
> > a rating less than deadly?
> >
> > In SR2 it was the case that they regenerated all damage at the end of
> > the turn and only died on failed regen roll.
> >
> > In SR3 it seems that only deadly damage (and physical drain) is
> > regenerated. That plainly does not make any sense but where are the
> > rules or the errata?
> > (quotes would be appreciated)
>
> Pg. 13-14 of Critter Supplement in the 3rd Ed. Gm Screen.
>
> "A creature with the Regeneration power cannot be killed by any damage
> except that which injures the spine or brain. Check for this type of
> damage whenever the creature takes deadly damage or it's cumulative
> damage reaches deadly on the condition monitor.
>
> <summary of check procedure: roll 1d6 when regen creature takes deadly
> damage on 1 (or 2 for massive tissue damage) creature dies>
>
> For any other result, the creature suffers the standard damage
> penalties for the Combat Turn in which the damage was inflicted, but
> the damage vanishes at the beginning of the next Combat Turn."
>
> How's that for a quote.
>
It would certainly have to do, even though it is not mentioned in the
companion, that repeats all the information on regen but skips this
part.
Thanks man, you certainly helped. Killer Quote. :)

The Wiz
Message no. 18
From: dbuehrer@******.carl.org dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:32:08 -0700
Manolis Skoulikas wrote:
>Iridios wrote:
> >
> >
> > Pg. 13-14 of Critter Supplement in the 3rd Ed. Gm Screen.
> >
> > "A creature with the Regeneration power cannot be killed by any damage
> > except that which injures the spine or brain. Check for this type of
> > damage whenever the creature takes deadly damage or it's cumulative
> > damage reaches deadly on the condition monitor.
> >
> > <summary of check procedure: roll 1d6 when regen creature takes deadly
> > damage on 1 (or 2 for massive tissue damage) creature dies>
> >
> > For any other result, the creature suffers the standard damage
> > penalties for the Combat Turn in which the damage was inflicted, but
> > the damage vanishes at the beginning of the next Combat Turn."
> >
> > How's that for a quote.
>
>It would certainly have to do, even though it is not mentioned in the
> companion, that repeats all the information on regen but skips this
>part.
> Thanks man, you certainly helped. Killer Quote. :)

Don't forget the part about suffering damage penalties (wound
modifiers). Even if a regenerator is nigh invulnerable, it still hurts
like hell when they get shot.

And do unconsciousness rules apply to regenerators?

Let's say a regenerator takes Deadly+ damage. Per the rules he falls
unconscious. At the end of the round all the damage heals, but when does
he wake up?

To Life,
-Graht
http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3
--
"Warm nights, good food, kindred spirits....great life!"
Message no. 19
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:59:19 EST
In a message dated 3/21/00 1:31:33 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nightwinder@*********.com writes:

>
> Correction. (Mind you, this is only from the SR2 version of the SRC)
> Shapeshifters regenerate their ESSENCE in damage boxes per turn. It's in
> the regen. stuff about shapeshifters.

really??? I couldn't find that one myself. Could you tell me where in
SRC... I'm serious, this little difference would prove interesting to say the
least.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 20
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:28:06 -0600
From: HHackerH@***.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:59 AM

> > Correction. (Mind you, this is only from the SR2 version of
> > the SRC) Shapeshifters regenerate their ESSENCE in damage boxes
> > per turn. It's in the regen. stuff about shapeshifters.
>
> really??? I couldn't find that one myself. Could you tell me where
> in SRC... I'm serious, this little difference would prove interesting
> to say the least.

In the 2nd Edition SRComp, look on page 37, last paragraph (continuing on to
the top of page 38).

The particular rule doesn't appear to exist in 3rd Edition SRComp, in which
PC shapers appear to use the same regen rules in CRITTERS.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 21
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:49:24 -0500 (EST)
Excerpts from ShadowRN: 21-Mar-100 Re: Regeneration by
dbuehrer@******.carl.org
> Let's say a regenerator takes Deadly+ damage. Per the rules he falls
> unconscious. At the end of the round all the damage heals, but when does
> he wake up?

As a side note, application of the new M&M rules would change things
so that unconsciousness is not automatic any more.

My understanding of (stun) damage is that you regain consciousness
when your damage level was reduced to Serious. Whether I was reading
SR2 rules or SR3 rules at the time I don't remember, or whether Serious
damage was rated at 6 or 9 boxes... I would suppose that might aplied
to Physical damage as well. When you're fixed up, you regain
consciousness. Sounds like a GM call though.

Mark
Message no. 22
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:45:51 +0200
Mark A Shieh wrote:
>
Whether I was reading
> SR2 rules or SR3 rules at the time I don't remember, or whether Serious
> damage was rated at 6 or 9 boxes...

serious starts at 6 boxes and goes up to 9 boxes..

--
Barbie - Prayers are like junkmail for Jesus

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 23
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 04:28:01 -0800 (PST)
I don't know if this subject has been brought up in
the past too, but don't you think that the
regeneration rules are a bit lame? Bare with me:

If joe vampire is hit for 9 boxes of damage and no
more, then according to the rules he cann't regenerate
the wound and he has to sit there until he heals with
another way (magic, time, etc). He only regenerates if
he takes a deadly plus wound. This doesn't sound very
right to me.
It is more resonable if they regenerate in the end of
every combat turn.
What do you think?

====

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Message no. 24
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:39:45 +0100
Le 28 déc. 2003, à 13:28, Shiro BsquLadat a écrit :

> If joe vampire is hit for 9 boxes of damage and no
> more, then according to the rules he cann't regenerate
> the wound and he has to sit there until he heals with
> another way (magic, time, etc). He only regenerates if
> he takes a deadly plus wound. This doesn't sound very
> right to me.
> It is more resonable if they regenerate in the end of
> every combat turn.
> What do you think?

I don't think this is how regeneration works.
IIRC (don't have the book here) the SR3C states that you regenerate
(Essence) boxes of physical damage at the end of each round, with a few
exceptions (fire, acid, materials you have a weakness to -- wood for
vampires, silver for 'shifters...).
What *is* really lame though IMO, is that as the rules are written and
as some GMs (not including mine, fortunately) read them, even a direct
impact from a heavy railgun or a MADCAP torpedo (24DN IIRC) with a
shitload of successes behind it *still* only has a 1 in 6 chance of
killing a regenerating critter.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 25
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:30:43 -0500
> I don't know if this subject has been brought up in
> the past too, but don't you think that the
> regeneration rules are a bit lame? Bare with me:
>
> If joe vampire is hit for 9 boxes of damage and no
> more, then according to the rules he cann't regenerate
> the wound and he has to sit there until he heals with
> another way (magic, time, etc). He only regenerates if
> he takes a deadly plus wound. This doesn't sound very
> right to me.
> It is more resonable if they regenerate in the end of
> every combat turn.
> What do you think?

First of all, your interpretation is correct.

Second of all, the advantage of keeping them in a wounded state longer
is that they at -least- suffer wound penalties longer, giving your
group a better chance of surviving.

Third of all, I can see it being kind of silly. I'm sure the
rationalization is something like "taking deadly damage kicks in their
body's defense systems, activating their regeneration".

I actually find the "recover <Essence> boxes every turn"
interpretation interesting, and much more tunable. Anyway.

Jim
Message no. 26
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:53:03 +0100
According to Shiro BsquLadat, on Sunday 28 December 2003 13:28 the word on
the street was...

> don't you think that the regeneration rules are a bit lame?

Yes, but not for the same reason you do :)

> If joe vampire is hit for 9 boxes of damage and no
> more, then according to the rules he cann't regenerate
> the wound and he has to sit there until he heals with
> another way (magic, time, etc). He only regenerates if
> he takes a deadly plus wound. This doesn't sound very
> right to me.
> It is more resonable if they regenerate in the end of
> every combat turn.

I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter with Regeneration is hit,
it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the end of the turn. Only if
it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes on its Physical
Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance that it might not
regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing the critter.

The reason I find this lame is because it's too easy (for the critter) and
too powerful. My house rule for regeneration is that, at the end of every
turn, the critter rolls its Essence against a TN equal to the number of
boxes of damage it has taken (physical + Stun) with no modifiers for
anything. Each success removes one box of damage from each Condition
Monitor. The critter can also choose to make this same test as a Complex
Action. The effect of this is that regeneration is less predictable, and
also a bit slower (especially if the critter has sustained a lot of
damage).

--
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Message no. 27
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:57:19 +0100
Gurth wrote :

> I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter with Regeneration is
> hit,
> it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the end of the turn. Only
> if
> it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes on its Physical
> Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance that it might not
> regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing the critter.

Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are there 2 different
canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 28
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:45:12 +0100
According to Max Noel, on Monday 29 December 2003 11:57 the word on the
street was...

> > I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter with Regeneration is
> > hit, it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the end of the turn.
> > Only if it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes on its
> > Physical Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance that it might
> > not regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing the critter.
>
> Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are there 2 different
> canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

Page 14 of Critters. First it talks about checking if the critter is
actually killed due to taking Deadly damage by rolling 1D6, and then
follows the line "For any other result [that is, a roll that indicates the
critter isn't dead] the creature suffers the standard damage penalties for
the Combat Turn in which the damage was inflicted, but the damage vanishes
at the beginning of the next Combat Turn."


This, BTW, is the way Regeneration has worked since SR was first published.
Check page 178 of SR1 for confirmation :)

--
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Message no. 29
From: me@******.net (Hexren)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:04:19 +0100
G> According to Max Noel, on Monday 29 December 2003 11:57 the word on the
G> street was...

>> > I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter with Regeneration is
>> > hit, it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the end of the turn.
>> > Only if it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes on its
>> > Physical Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance that it might
>> > not regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing the critter.
>>
>> Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are there 2 different
>> canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

G> Page 14 of Critters. First it talks about checking if the critter is
G> actually killed due to taking Deadly damage by rolling 1D6, and then
G> follows the line "For any other result [that is, a roll that indicates the
G> critter isn't dead] the creature suffers the standard damage penalties for
G> the Combat Turn in which the damage was inflicted, but the damage vanishes
G> at the beginning of the next Combat Turn."


G> This, BTW, is the way Regeneration has worked since SR was first published.
G> Check page 178 of SR1 for confirmation :)


---------------------------------------------

I would go conform with that its how I always interpreted things too.
For explosive or "area" damage (read hit by hmg or grenade) deadly wounds the
"Critter Dies" results
would be 1 and 2. Thats pretty hard to kill (for unaugmented humans) but after all it is
magical regeneration so it is intendet to be hard to defeat.
(By the way a Sammy with smg has imho a good chance to kill a Vamp. Due to his high
initiative rools the sammy will go first most of the turns and inflict
deadly damage on the Vamp imobilizing him for the rest of the turn.
Then inflict some more damage or behead him this will kill the Vamp
after aprox. 2-3 Rounds)

Greetz
Hexren
Message no. 30
From: me@******.net (X3K6A2)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:03:04 +0100
Hi,


> Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are there 2 different
> canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

I think they changed the rules in edition 3.

>The reason I find this lame is because it's too easy (for the critter) and
>too powerful.

But a regenerating critter is something most people will never see,
therefore they should be powerful.
And thinking about some animal with regeneration it is powerful but
not realy dangerous, it has no armor and deadly damage is a fast think
with if two people with guns target you.
The only real dangerous cratures with regeneration are the ones that
are also activ shamans or Vampires (for they are our kind+regeneration
and some powers)
Message no. 31
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:50:03 +0100
According to X3K6A2, on Monday 29 December 2003 13:03 the word on the
street was...

> > Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are there 2 different
> > canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

I forgot to answer that second question: there are no two different
versions -- at least, not if you disregard house rules :) Regeneration in
FASA's books has always worked the way I explained.

Page 178 of SR1 has the same text as p. 12 of PANA; p. 219, SRII is also
almost identical, while p. 137, PAoE gives _slightly_ more detailed rules,
but not by much (mostly the inclusion of the word "Physical" and similar
phrases in a few places, probably to avoid the question of whether Stun
damage regenerates as well), and the rule on p. 94 of Predator & Prey is
pretty much identical to the one in PAoE. The version on p. 14 of Critters
appears to be re-written, but is essentially the same as all the above,
too.

> I think they changed the rules in edition 3.

Not really; the only change between the SR1 and Critters versions of the
power is that the critter gets its test at the end of the turn in SR1, and
at the beginning of the next turn in Critters. The more recent write-ups
also use more words, but really say the same thing as the very first
version.

> >The reason I find this lame is because it's too easy (for the critter)
> > and too powerful.
>
> But a regenerating critter is something most people will never see,
> therefore they should be powerful.

True, but IMHO the whole automatic-and-complete regeneration does not fit
well with the normal SR method of doing things, whereby you roll dice to
see how well/quickly it happens. It's a little too D&D-style for me, I
guess.

Not to mention that, using my house rule, a critter with regeneration is
still a very dangerous opponent, certainly for the average person. You
shoot it, get lucky with the dice and drop it. You turn your back,
thinking it's a job well done, and ten second later it's trying to tear
your head off your neck again...

--
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You've been touched by the doubt of man
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Message no. 32
From: chipeloi@***.nl (chipeloi@***.nl)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:19:49 +0100
> >
> > But a regenerating critter is something most people will never see,
> > therefore they should be powerful.
>
> True, but IMHO the whole automatic-and-complete regeneration does not fit
> well with the normal SR method of doing things, whereby you roll dice to
> see how well/quickly it happens. It's a little too D&D-style for me, I
> guess.
>
> Not to mention that, using my house rule, a critter with regeneration is
> still a very dangerous opponent, certainly for the average person. You
> shoot it, get lucky with the dice and drop it. You turn your back,
> thinking it's a job well done, and ten second later it's trying to tear
> your head off your neck again...
>

Ive played a shapeshifter and used the rules Gurth gave me, they are very very dangerous
if
you give them armour.
i got shot a hell of a lot of times because my caracter just wel.. he always got up again,
so i
started playing him that if he got shot he got mad and pissed off and disregarded the rest
of
the bullets since they healed any way.
A normal PC wil slow down if they hit moderate damage, serius and they want to get out of
the firefight, shapeshifter (with armour) just scrug off moderate wounds as they regen (in

most cases) the following turn if they get hit for more, then they just hide for a few
turns and
then come up again fully healed.
So if you place a shapeshifter with flex armour (allowing him to change shape) and use hit

and run tactics you got a very deadly opponent.
Something most runners would have huge problems with.
Message no. 33
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:20:59 -0800 (PST)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter with
> Regeneration is hit,
> it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the end
> of the turn. Only if
> it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes
> on its Physical
> Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance that
> it might not
> regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing the
> critter.
>
> The reason I find this lame is because it's too easy
> (for the critter) and
> too powerful.

Well, I don't have the critter sourcesbook handy right
now, but the Shadowrun companion p.36 where it
demonstrates the regeneration ability of the
shapeshifter (and says that it works in the same way
like the critter power), NEVER says that they
regenerate ANYTHING if it hasn't reached deadly wound.
It just say that they are hard to DIE from damage
(That makes shapeshifters virtually immune to death
from injury, to quote from the book).

And I don't see why they should be powered down.They
are supposed to be extremely dangerous and rare
encounters, something that you should beat by planning
not by brute force.As a matter of fact, I find most of
the critters to be laughtable as opponents.They are
WAY too easy to be defeated, one shot one kill
subjects, no matter the tactical planning. Even the
regeneration ability as it is now, isn't much against
a group of players, who deal deadly damage+ in every
attack that they make (and every player that I have
met does that from the first session).

To get back to the subject, I also think that the
regeneration power should erase all damage (physical
and stun, but not boxes from spellcasting) at the end
of every turn and in the case of deadly physical, the
rules are sufficient and very fare.But I would like to
see what you had to say about it.

====

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Message no. 34
From: zebulingod@*******.net (zebulingod)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:36:37 -0800
"Hexren" <me@******.net> wrote:
>
> I would go conform with that its how I always interpreted things too.
> For explosive or "area" damage (read hit by hmg or grenade) deadly wounds
the "Critter Dies" results
> would be 1 and 2. Thats pretty hard to kill (for unaugmented humans) but
after all it is
> magical regeneration so it is intendet to be hard to defeat.
> (By the way a Sammy with smg has imho a good chance to kill a Vamp. Due to
his high
> initiative rools the sammy will go first most of the turns and inflict
> deadly damage on the Vamp imobilizing him for the rest of the turn.
> Then inflict some more damage or behead him this will kill the Vamp
> after aprox. 2-3 Rounds)
>

I'll reply by first saying that I don't have any of my books handy, but
here's how I've always run Vampires:

Regeneration works at Gurth just described. At the end of the turn, any
non-Deadly damage is gone. If there's a Deadly, then the Vampire needs to
roll to see if they regenerate it. This applies to any regenerating
creature.

As to your comments, though, I happened to agree. At some point, I thought
Vampires had the critter power Immunity to Normal Weapons. When I first
threw them at my players, they weren't easy to kill by any interpretation of
the word. One of the street sams actually went from 0 Stun and 0 Phys to 10
Stun and 6 Phys from a single punch from a Vampire with 8 Essence. (To be
fair, I also was using the stats of a previous character who had contracted
HMHVV, rather than the boring stats in Critters.)

My group, sans the gun bunny who wasn't there that day, have a very healthy
respect for Vampires. I just reread Critters, and it seems Vampires don't
have an Immunity to Normal Weapons, while the Vampire Pawns do. To me, that
doesn't make any sense, so I just gave the Vampires the same ability. It
makes them a much more fearsome opponent, when coupled with Regeneration.

*egmg*

Zebulin
Message no. 35
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:01:28 +0100
According to Shiro BsquLadat, on Monday 29 December 2003 19:20 the word on
the street was...

> Well, I don't have the critter sourcesbook handy right
> now, but the Shadowrun companion p.36 where it
> demonstrates the regeneration ability of the
> shapeshifter (and says that it works in the same way
> like the critter power), NEVER says that they
> regenerate ANYTHING if it hasn't reached deadly wound.
> It just say that they are hard to DIE from damage
> (That makes shapeshifters virtually immune to death
> from injury, to quote from the book).

Ah -- you should have mentioned you were talking about PC shapeshifters.
These have a different set of regeneration rules, for the fairly obvious
reason that FASA must have felt the critter power was far too strong to
give to players.

> And I don't see why they should be powered down.They
> are supposed to be extremely dangerous and rare
> encounters, something that you should beat by planning
> not by brute force.As a matter of fact, I find most of
> the critters to be laughtable as opponents.They are
> WAY too easy to be defeated, one shot one kill
> subjects, no matter the tactical planning. Even the
> regeneration ability as it is now, isn't much against
> a group of players, who deal deadly damage+ in every
> attack that they make (and every player that I have
> met does that from the first session).

If that's the case, then I have a feeling your players typically take a
bunch of combat skills at 6 and walk around with at least SMGs all the
time. The last couple of combats my group got into, probably the most
effective fighter was my Gecko shaman -- because he knows Stunbolt... I
don't think the other players have taken anyone out with just one or two
attacks at all, even when the GM gave us a turret-mounted HMG to play with
last session.

--
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You've been touched by the doubt of man
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Message no. 36
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:02:24 +0100
According to zebulingod, on Monday 29 December 2003 20:36 the word on the
street was...

> As to your comments, though, I happened to agree. At some point, I
> thought Vampires had the critter power Immunity to Normal Weapons.

I'm not sure if that's a better or a worse mistake to make than assuming
vampires have an allergy and/or vulnerability to silver when you know
you're going to fight one :)

--
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Message no. 37
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:42:48 -0500
>>Well, I don't have the critter sourcesbook handy right
>>now, but the Shadowrun companion p.36 where it
>>demonstrates the regeneration ability of the
>>shapeshifter (and says that it works in the same way
>>like the critter power), NEVER says that they
>>regenerate ANYTHING if it hasn't reached deadly wound.
>>It just say that they are hard to DIE from damage
>>(That makes shapeshifters virtually immune to death
>>from injury, to quote from the book).
>
> Ah -- you should have mentioned you were talking about PC shapeshifters.
> These have a different set of regeneration rules, for the fairly obvious
> reason that FASA must have felt the critter power was far too strong to
> give to players.

They don't have seperate rules, not as far as I can tell. For regen on
p13 of Critters, the only time -anything- happens is if the creature
"checks for this kind of damage", when it takes a Deadly wound or
reaches Deadly on the condition monitor. In a similar vein, the
Shapeshifter regen rules say they regenerate in roughly the same
manner as shapeshifter critters (then referencing p13), but it
elaborates saying they regen Drain damage over time, regen in both
forms, and several other additions for shapeshifters. (I assume these
clauses account for the "roughly".)

As far as I can tell, regeneration really only applies to avoiding
dying, it doesn't help with negating wound penalties every round.

Jim
Message no. 38
From: zebulingod@*******.net (zebulingod)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:27:00 -0800
"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:


According to zebulingod, on Monday 29 December 2003 20:36 the word on the
street was...

> As to your comments, though, I happened to agree. At some point, I
> thought Vampires had the critter power Immunity to Normal Weapons.

I'm not sure if that's a better or a worse mistake to make than assuming
vampires have an allergy and/or vulnerability to silver when you know
you're going to fight one :)
--

Heh, they don't. It's a vulnerability to Wood....at least, that's what I
remember them having. I may have to look it up again. Still, one of my
players buys Silver bullets now, and keeps a clip with him at all times. [:

Seriously, though, didn't Vampires used to have Immunity to Normal Weapons?

Zebulin
Message no. 39
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:26:05 +0100
According to zebulingod, on Monday 29 December 2003 23:27 the word on the
street was...

> > I'm not sure if that's a better or a worse mistake to make than
> > assuming vampires have an allergy and/or vulnerability to silver when
> > you know you're going to fight one :)
>
> Heh, they don't. It's a vulnerability to Wood....at least, that's what I
> remember them having.

I'm not sure about the wood vulnerability (I think so, though) but I _know_
since '95 that it's not one to silver -- stocking up on silver tableware
to fight the vampire turned out to have been a bit of a waste of time :)

> Seriously, though, didn't Vampires used to have Immunity to Normal
> Weapons?

To age, poison and pathogens, according to SR1. You've probably got Mist
Form in the back of your head: a creature with this power gets ItNW when
it turns into mist.

--
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You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 40
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:27:22 +0100
According to Jim Montgomery, on Monday 29 December 2003 22:42 the word on
the street was...

> They don't have seperate rules, not as far as I can tell. For regen on
> p13 of Critters, the only time -anything- happens is if the creature
> "checks for this kind of damage", when it takes a Deadly wound or
> reaches Deadly on the condition monitor.

Hmm... that's an interpretation that I don't think I've ever come across,
but it does make sense.

--
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You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 41
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:05:01 -0800 (PST)
> > Ah -- you should have mentioned you were talking
> about PC shapeshifters.

I wasn't talking about shapeshifters, I jyst didn't
have the critters book right then.

> They don't have seperate rules, not as far as I can
> tell. For regen on
> p13 of Critters, the only time -anything- happens is
> if the creature
> "checks for this kind of damage", when it takes a
> Deadly wound or
> reaches Deadly on the condition monitor. In a
> similar vein, the
> Shapeshifter regen rules say they regenerate in
> roughly the same
> manner as shapeshifter critters (then referencing
> p13), but it
> elaborates saying they regen Drain damage over time,
> regen in both
> forms, and several other additions for
> shapeshifters. (I assume these
> clauses account for the "roughly".)
>
> As far as I can tell, regeneration really only
> applies to avoiding
> dying, it doesn't help with negating wound penalties
> every round.

That is true. The critter book has the regeneration
bit AFTER the dice roll and it says ''For any other
result.....'' so I guess it is pretty obvious that
they mean that only after deadly damage they
regenerate.This is why I say it is lame.It doesn't
save them much.And if they have the modifiers too,
then they become fairly easy prey without the help of
magic or heavy armor.

====

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Message no. 42
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:13:05 -0800 (PST)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> If that's the case, then I have a feeling your
> players typically take a
> bunch of combat skills at 6 and walk around with at
> least SMGs all the
> time. The last couple of combats my group got into,
> probably the most
> effective fighter was my Gecko shaman -- because he
> knows Stunbolt... I
> don't think the other players have taken anyone out
> with just one or two
> attacks at all, even when the GM gave us a
> turret-mounted HMG to play with
> last session.

Well, yes but they use Heavy pistols with BF and MGL-6
with phosforus grenades rather than SMGs, which makes
them even deadlier. And I like it! When the drek hits
the fan, I want them to be ready. That is why they
have high skills and with the use of the mnemonic
enhancer 3 (that they ALL get) they grow even
stronger. Nevertheless, as any good GM can testify,
there are ALWAYS ways to challenge and endanger them.
And no, our games are not slug-festivals. Just the
battles are fast and extremely furious, one shot one
kill style.the real challenge is to avoid the fights
(and pissing off the arcvillains).

====

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Message no. 43
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:19:14 -0500
At 03:13 PM 12/30/2003, Shiro BsquLadat wrote:
>Well, yes but they use Heavy pistols with BF and MGL-6
>with phosforus grenades rather than SMGs, which makes
>them even deadlier. And I like it! When the drek hits
>the fan, I want them to be ready. That is why they
>have high skills and with the use of the mnemonic
>enhancer 3 (that they ALL get) they grow even

Thank god FanPro fixed that broken ass piece of cheese.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 44
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 11:38:23 -0800 (PST)
--- "Timothy J. Lanza" <tjlanza@************.com>
wrote:
> At 03:13 PM 12/30/2003, Shiro BsquLadat wrote:
> >Well, yes but they use Heavy pistols with BF and
> MGL-6
> >with phosforus grenades rather than SMGs, which
> makes
> >them even deadlier. And I like it! When the drek
> hits
> >the fan, I want them to be ready. That is why they
> >have high skills and with the use of the mnemonic
> >enhancer 3 (that they ALL get) they grow even
>
> Thank god FanPro fixed that broken ass piece of
> cheese.

Could you please tell me where that fix is? I haven't
read it yet.

====

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Message no. 45
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:35:02 +0100
Le 03 janv. 2004, à 20:38, Shiro BsquLadat a écrit :

>> Thank god FanPro fixed that broken ass piece of
>> cheese.
>
> Could you please tell me where that fix is? I haven't
> read it yet.

http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/errata_mm.shtml

Now the Mnemonic Enhancer only provides a karma cost reduction of 1,
no matter its level (lv. 2 and 3 are still quite useful -- reduced
training times, etc.).
But IIRC they haven't fixed the enhanced articulation yet. +1 dice to
all skills save magical and social ones for less than 20K, talk about
broken stuff...

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 46
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:49:18 +1100 (EST)
--- Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote: >
> Gurth wrote :
>
> > I think you're reading it wrong. When a critter
> with Regeneration is
> > hit,
> > it automatically gets rid of _all_ damage at the
> end of the turn. Only
> > if
> > it takes a Deadly wound (that is, if all ten boxes
> on its Physical
> > Condition Monitor are filled) is there a chance
> that it might not
> > regenerate -- and therefore of actually killing
> the critter.
>
> Huh? In what book is that rule exactly? And why are
> there 2 different
> canon sets of rules for regeneration, then?

Isn't It because there's a difference between the
regeneration rules of the shapeshifter character In
the shadowrun companion & the regeneration power of
the critter In the 3rd ed critters sourcebook? (You
know, the one that comes with the 3rd ed shadowrun GM
screen)

GZ - they should do research Into cyberware & nano
technology where the gear actually warps & conforms to
the bodys bio's. like liquid metal from T3, a smart
technology that would make shapeshifter's
terrifiyingly godlike ;)

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Message no. 47
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:07:24 +1100 (EST)
--- Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@**********.com>
wrote:

<snip>

> As far as I can tell, regeneration really only
> applies to avoiding
> dying, it doesn't help with negating wound penalties
> every round.

Well I assume regeneration would apply to wound
penalties also, as It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Could you Imagine the vampire that managed to survive
2 deadly wounds, + 6 target no. Imagine If he was also
a mage with strain or suffering from plane ol' Jane
good old fashioned stun modifiers, better off dead as
that vamp's lining up to collect a wompin'

GZ

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Message no. 48
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:07:57 +1100 (EST)
--- Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@**********.com>
wrote:

<snip>

> As far as I can tell, regeneration really only
> applies to avoiding
> dying, it doesn't help with negating wound penalties
> every round.

Well I assume regeneration would apply to wound
penalties also, as It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Could you Imagine the vampire that managed to survive
2 deadly wounds, + 6 target no. Imagine If he was also
a mage with strain or suffering from plane ol' Jane
good old fashioned stun modifiers, better off dead as
that vamp's lining up to collect a wompin'

GZ

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Message no. 49
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:13:20 +1100 (EST)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
<snip>
>To age, poison and pathogens, according to SR1.
> You've probably got Mist
> Form in the back of your head: a creature with this
> power gets ItNW when
> it turns into mist.

you also forgot somethin' about water putting them
into stasis?hybernation, If held under say a log ;)
SRII.

GZ

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Message no. 50
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:58:16 +0100
According to Robert Ennew, on Friday 09 January 2004 08:13 the word on the
street was...

> you also forgot somethin' about water putting them
> into stasis?hybernation, If held under say a log ;)
> SRII.

I didn't forget -- it just wasn't relevant to the question asked :) Someone
wondered if vampires had Immunity to Normal Weapons, to which the answer
is that they only do while using their Mist Form power.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 51
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:14:03 -0800 (PST)
--- Robert Ennew <robertennew@*****.com.au> wrote:
> --- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> <snip>
> >To age, poison and pathogens, according to SR1.
> > You've probably got Mist
> > Form in the back of your head: a creature with
> this
> > power gets ItNW when
> > it turns into mist.
>
> you also forgot somethin' about water putting them
> into stasis?hybernation, If held under say a log ;)
> SRII.

it is lack of air=suffocating that makes them dormant
and puts themin a state of suspended animation.

====

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Message no. 52
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:32:51 +0000
> Isn't It because there's a difference between the
> regeneration rules of the shapeshifter character In
> the shadowrun companion & the regeneration power of
> the critter In the 3rd ed critters sourcebook? (You
> know, the one that comes with the 3rd ed shadowrun GM
> screen)
>

I have both books you mentioned in front of my right now and I don't see a discrepency.
The rules in the shadowrun companion simply expand on things further, talking about
checking for magic loss, regenerating damage caused by drain, and karma. In other words,
things you don't usually worry about for a critter but do matter for a PC. Other than
that, the rules are the same.

> GZ - they should do research Into cyberware & nano
> technology where the gear actually warps & conforms to
> the bodys bio's. like liquid metal from T3, a smart
> technology that would make shapeshifter's
> terrifiyingly godlike ;)
>

I always thought that the problem with shapeshifters and implants went beyond what happens
to the implants when changing shape, and was more a matter of the body wanting to reject
the implant and, thanks to the regeneration power, it has the power to do literally that.
Even without changing shape the implant would quickly be spat out, so to speak.

Besides which, building things out of "liquid metal" is incredibly silly.

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 53
From: mattgbond@********.com (Matthew Bond)
Subject: regeneration
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:27:51 -0000
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Ennew" <robertennew@*****.com.au>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: regeneration


> --- Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@**********.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > As far as I can tell, regeneration really only
> > applies to avoiding
> > dying, it doesn't help with negating wound penalties
> > every round.
>
> Well I assume regeneration would apply to wound
> penalties also, as It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
> Could you Imagine the vampire that managed to survive
> 2 deadly wounds, + 6 target no. Imagine If he was also
> a mage with strain or suffering from plane ol' Jane
> good old fashioned stun modifiers, better off dead as
> that vamp's lining up to collect a wompin'

No, he wasn't stating that regeneration doesn't remove wound penalties,
just that it only kicks in when you would otherwise die, and doesn't
kick in every round just because you are wounded.

Though in practice whenever we have encountered a regenerating opponent
in the game I play in, it is rare for it not to reach deadly damage
every round...

Matt


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Message no. 54
From: wilson.reis@*****.com (Wilson Reis)
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:42:55 -0300
I´ve GMed an adventure some years ago that included a Wendigo in the
opposition. I did exactly as the rules said, rolling a d6 every time
the critter got Deadly damage, at least until the group managed to get
"ferrous" bullets. It all went well, but the way the regen power is
covered in the system always kept me a bit uncorfortable with some
details.

The turn after surviving (and regenerating) Deadly damage, shouldn´t I
apply at least on turn of "temporary stun" mods as well ? Being the
top-villain in that adventure, the Wendigo was always able to soak the
lead and fight back the next combat turn, but is that fair ?

I am thinking about introducing some more regen-capable critters in my
new campaign, but it seems more fair to add one or two rounds of stun
mods, perhaps +4 to all actions the following turn and +2 in the next.
What do you think about it and how do you/you GM dealt with that in
your games ?

Will
Message no. 55
From: LOSLOBOS5@***.com (LOSLOBOS5@***.com)
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:22:22 -0400
I've had a fair amount of experience in using wendigo's, vampire's, and other regenerating
creatures. IMHO, these types of encounters are not your basic everyday encounters. These
types of creatures are powerful, especially when the wendigo is a shaman. They should be a
tough nut to crack, and no punches should be pulled when using them as a villian,
especially when he is at the top of the food chain in your encounter. At least thats how
this GM thinks.

Los Lobos
Message no. 56
From: wilson.reis@*****.com (Wilson Reis)
Subject: Regeneration
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:00:49 -0300
On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:22:22 -0400, loslobos5@***.com <loslobos5@***.com> wrote:
These types of creatures are powerful, especially when the wendigo is
a shaman. They should be a tough nut to crack, and no punches should
be pulled when using them as a villian, especially when he is at the
top of the food chain in your encounter. At least thats how this GM
thinks.
>
> Los Lobos
>


yep, my wendy was a shaman also :-))

oh boy, the players had a hard time.

Will

Further Reading

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