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From:	"Lindblom Fredrik, Training" <fredrik.lindblom@*******.TELIA.SE>
Subject:	Re: Remington (and now Ares Slivergun) R
Date:	Thu, 15 Jun 1995 16:44:00 PDT

Message no. 1 I didn't get any feedback on this earlier, so I decided to re-post it.

> So why is it so fucking small? Conc. 8?! I've snuck these into ultra
>secure meeting rooms. Course, they let me keep my armor also, and I have a
>rep for bieng level headed. But still, just the 8 shotgun shells would be
>pretty big, never mind the barrel. And it is semi auto. Sounds chunky.

Remington(8)+Concealable holster(+2)+Long coat(+2)=Whaddayamean 'strip
search' ???

>So, has anyone out there changed how remington roomsweepers work, or are
they
>cheap, concealable, deadly guns? I'd like to keep the versatility, but if
you
>have some real good reason they can't fire slugs, I'll live with it.

Somehow my players missed this lovely piece of hardware completely. Must
have been because there is no picture of it. They prefer things they can
watch, like those in SSHB and FOF.

Anyone that ever fired a shotgun will probably tell you that they would NOT
like to have that recoil crushing their wrists to splinters.

In my campaign it's a heavy -pistol, pure and simple, since Flechette ammo
in a heavy pistol also does 9S(f) damage. This means other ammo could be
used as well, being standard .45 or whatever. As I said, nobody ever used
one, so I guess I'll see about it when someone does. :-)

On the other hand I _have_ had problems with the Ares Viper Slivergun and
recurring head-shots with said weapon. Similar problem here. What the frag
_is_ it really? A heavy pistol? A shower-head looking thing like Molly's in
'Neuromancer'? or what? What caliber(9S (f)lechette=.45?)? What kind of
clip(30 rounds! That's decent for an assault rifle!A calico-style
cassette?)? Can fire BF-no-problemo! And if I'm not mistaken, the thing has
an OK conceal of 6 or so... Now imagine 12D damage in the face (NO armor!)
from from a fraggin pistol! A burst from an assault rifle (OK, standard ammo
any location) does (only) 11S. And hey, isn't it silenced (or supressed?)
too??? and cheap at that???

In my campaign the Slivergun is _BANNED_ and that's it. No whining, please.

MxM

>>>[" I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but I can't see it
through all the gunsmoke and my mirrored shades. "]<<<

From:	Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Remington (and now Ares Slivergun) R
Date:	Fri, 16 Jun 1995 00:02:36 GMT

Message no. 2 > On the other hand I _have_ had problems with the Ares Viper Slivergun and
> recurring head-shots with said weapon. Similar problem here. What the frag
> _is_ it really? A heavy pistol? A shower-head looking thing like Molly's in
> 'Neuromancer'? or what? What caliber(9S (f)lechette=.45?)? What kind of
> clip(30 rounds! That's decent for an assault rifle!A calico-style
> cassette?)? Can fire BF-no-problemo! And if I'm not mistaken, the thing has
> an OK conceal of 6 or so... Now imagine 12D damage in the face (NO armor!)
> from from a fraggin pistol! A burst from an assault rifle (OK, standard ammo
> any location) does (only) 11S. And hey, isn't it silenced (or supressed?)
> too??? and cheap at that???

The Slivergun is a nasty weapon, but no worse than the Savalette Guardian.
It's popular as a "hold-out" pistol in a concealable holster, for last-
ditch situations, and also for assassinations. Similar weapons exist:
Grendel in the US make a very nice .22 Winchester Magnum pistol with a
thirty-shot magazine today.

I don't ban anything. But if the players use it, so do bad guys. Long ago
in the days of SR1...

"He drops his rifle and draws his pistol."
"I stand up and shoot him."
"He'll get a shot first..." GM sounds warning.
"He's only got a pistol, it's no problem!"
*BRAAAAAP*
"What the hell was that? I took eight boxes!"
"He's using an Ingram 20t as a pistol. What do you do next?"

If the PCs discover a weapon is wonderful, the NPCs know that too.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Remington (and now Ares Slivergun) R
Date:	Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:11:19 BST

Message no. 3 > The Slivergun is a nasty weapon, but no worse than the Savalette Guardian.
Oh, I don;'t know, at least you get 2x Impact vs the Slivergun, but it
can do two bursts, whereas the Savalette only gets one (or am I thiking
of another autofire pistol?) and the Viper is supressed.

By Ingram Model 20t, are we talking something around the size of a
Mac-10, etc. Or is that the official designation for an ingram smartgun?

Phil (Renegade)

PS. I find that most NPC that are 'in the know' find out about the better
weapons a while bfoere the PC's do, but that could justbe becuase I do all
the buying of sourcebooks round here and tend to conceal some of the more
fun stuff from the players until I;ve had a chance to use it against them ;-)

From:	The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Remington (and now Ares Slivergun) R
Date:	Fri, 16 Jun 1995 17:50:27 +0100

Message no. 4 > > The Slivergun is a nasty weapon, but no worse than the Savalette Guardian.
> Oh, I don;'t know, at least you get 2x Impact vs the Slivergun, but it
> can do two bursts, whereas the Savalette only gets one (or am I thiking
> of another autofire pistol?) and the Viper is supressed.
Yeah, the Savalette can only do 1 burst per action (I think) but the gun
from LoneStar can do 2, with no recoil on the first burst and only +4 on
the second :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html

From:	Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Remington (and now Ares Slivergun) R
Date:	Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:32:27 GMT

Message no. 5 > > The Slivergun is a nasty weapon, but no worse than the Savalette Guardian.
> Oh, I don;'t know, at least you get 2x Impact vs the Slivergun, but it
> can do two bursts, whereas the Savalette only gets one (or am I thiking
> of another autofire pistol?) and the Viper is supressed.

True, but against properly armoured targets (read: most people you *need*
to hurt) the Savalette's way ahead, especially loaded with APDS or EX
explosives. 14S damage, anyone? How many of those do you need?

> By Ingram Model 20t, are we talking something around the size of a
> Mac-10, etc. Or is that the official designation for an ingram smartgun?

It's the actual designation of the Ingram Smartgun. And with concealability
5, integral smartlink, stock and gas vent 2, it's a brilliant pistol.

> PS. I find that most NPC that are 'in the know' find out about the better
> weapons a while bfoere the PC's do, but that could justbe becuase I do all
> the buying of sourcebooks round here and tend to conceal some of the more
> fun stuff from the players until I;ve had a chance to use it against them ;-)

Oh, Phil, I love you! :-) This is the way to go. Especially when you mislead
them.... "What was that? It did a Medium on me!" "You don't know, but the
owner is lying down and disassembled, and the gun is next to him..." If
it's unusual and different they'll grab it and use it, with no idea of how good
it is. Now watch their face when you finally explain it only does 6L damage
and the guy was just a good shot...

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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