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Message no. 1
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 00:16:42 -0500
OK, here's what I know about this little toy.

In the Shadowrun Sega Genesis game (don't laugh TOO hard) it is depicted as
a very short gun with a cylindrical revolver-type loading system and a very
short barrel. Thus, eight rounds could indeed be loaded and concealability
kept reasonable (though an 8 conc is still out of the question).

Next, I see it firing rounds more like .410 than the 10g or 12g mentioned by
Rat. Much smaller and more sensible for such a weapon. Also, the
Roomsweeper only fires flechette ammunition. Not full blown shot, not
slugs. Flechette. Which (to me) can be interpreted as maybe even using a
less sizeable round. Say, a shotgun shell the size of a heavy pistol round.
Concealability becomes much more sensible when you think of it that way as
opposed to a pistol attempting to hold eight 10g shells. (though, once
again... an 8 is out of the question).

Another thing that isn't mentioned is whether or not Roomsweepers use spread
rules. I assume they don't, lending credence to the "smaller shell" theory.

As for damage? It does 9S(f). So if it hits an unarmored opponent (and how
many of those are around?) it does 9S. If it has to face any armor
whatsoever, the damage is 9M and it goes against full ballistic or double
impact (whichever is higher). So if any armor is present, it's weaker than
the average heavy pistol. Still not bad overall, but weaker than it could be.

With a Roomsweeper you're limited to one type of ammo (flechette) and by the
looks of it, no other weapon uses the same round. You can't use
armor-piercing ammo. You can't use explosive or even gel. The rounds are
expensive (30 rounds for a Roomsweeper are worth as much as the pistol
itself). You want to spend that much cash on a weapon that isn't all that
effective, more power to you.

Finally, the concealability issue. Think about the situation. A decent
pat-down will uncover even a light pistol in real life. I don't think
they've gotten that much smaller in 60 years. The gun may escape notice by
a casual eye, sure. That's what the base concealability rating is all
about. Very few items could be concealed well enough to get past a
frisking. Monofilament whips are an example. Some knives. Maybe even a
derringer. Sword cane, etc. Put those up against a weapon detector and
maybe the whip gets by. And you CAN'T tell me that any Fixer or Johnson
worthy of the title wouldn't have someone sitting there waiting to check for
weapons. Think about how paranoid the players are. Now picture how
paranoid those same chars would be in a few years and after a score or three
more deals. There's something close to what a Fixer might be. Multiply
that tenfold and you get a Johnson. Guns just aren't going to be a factor.


-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
Message no. 2
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:02:45 GMT
> From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
>
> As for damage? It does 9S(f). So if it hits an unarmored opponent (and how
> many of those are around?) it does 9S. If it has to face any armor
> whatsoever, the damage is 9M and it goes against full ballistic or double
> impact (whichever is higher). So if any armor is present, it's weaker than
> the average heavy pistol. Still not bad overall, but weaker than it could be.
>
>
Yeah, once net a bad guy with one of these things, laugh, the PC had
4 points of impact armour on, and of course i hid round the corner of
the doorway for partial cover, oh yes 1M's !!! and the poor slot
needs 7's to hit, oh dodge, dodge, dodge, would the guy kindly stop
using shielding vs our spells (add anti shieling tactics), BOOM, oops
no bad guy.

>
> -- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
>

Mark
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:02:37 +0200
>Say, a shotgun shell the size of a heavy pistol round.

.410 gauge can AFAIK be loaded in weapons chambered for, what was it, .45
Colt I think...

>With a Roomsweeper you're limited to one type of ammo (flechette) and by the
>looks of it, no other weapon uses the same round. You can't use
>armor-piercing ammo. You can't use explosive or even gel. The rounds are
>expensive (30 rounds for a Roomsweeper are worth as much as the pistol
>itself). You want to spend that much cash on a weapon that isn't all that
>effective, more power to you.

I allow Roomsweepers to fire normal ammo as well, it's just that nobody I
know has ever used one :) Whether they fire HP or shotgun shells I'll have
to decide upon when someone buys one and wants to load different ammo...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
No one wants you when you lose
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Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:21:31 -0400
On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:

> Next, I see it firing rounds more like .410 than the 10g or 12g mentioned by
> Rat. Much smaller and more sensible for such a weapon. Also, the
> Roomsweeper only fires flechette ammunition. Not full blown shot, not
> slugs. Flechette.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but I'm fairly
certain it's not true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't nornal
scattershot use flechette rules? If that is the case, then that damage
code is for normal scattershot, which would mean that scatter rules are
used.
It would also mean that the weapon's base code is 9M when firing
slugs (which makes sense, it being a heavy pistol). Thus, like any other
heavy pistol or shotgun, it could be loaded with a variety of slugs. You
could even get creative and alternate them (scattershot, explosive,
scattershot, etc.).

> Another thing that isn't mentioned is whether or not Roomsweepers use spread
> rules. I assume they don't, lending credence to the "smaller shell"
theory.

See above.

Marc
Message no. 5
From: Paul Finch <pfinch@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:10:53 -0600
On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:

> OK, here's what I know about this little toy.
>
> In the Shadowrun Sega Genesis game (don't laugh TOO hard) it is depicted as
> a very short gun with a cylindrical revolver-type loading system and a very
> short barrel. Thus, eight rounds could indeed be loaded and concealability
> kept reasonable (though an 8 conc is still out of the question).

This I had forgotten. Very well could be the thing. The dimentions
would have changed from my wit-pro boom stick but...
>
> Next, I see it firing rounds more like .410 than the 10g or 12g mentioned by
> Rat. Much smaller and more sensible for such a weapon. Also, the
> Roomsweeper only fires flechette ammunition. Not full blown shot, not
> slugs. Flechette. Which (to me) can be interpreted as maybe even using a
> less sizeable round. Say, a shotgun shell the size of a heavy pistol round.
> Concealability becomes much more sensible when you think of it that way as
> opposed to a pistol attempting to hold eight 10g shells. (though, once
> again... an 8 is out of the question).
>
Why limit the ammo type and size just because the rating says conceal of
8. I think that by saying that you might be cheapening the weapon
itself. But for the sake of argument lets says its a .410. Ok thats the
diameter... whats the length. Theres the rub, unless you are saying its
the revolver type. Now that I think about that the game did show that to
be the fact. This may be the case. Im old house saying its a
pump/inertia style gun.

> Another thing that isn't mentioned is whether or not Roomsweepers use spread
> rules. I assume they don't, lending credence to the "smaller shell"
theory.

I berlieve all shotguns if using shot use the spreading diagram.

> As for damage? <snip>

> With a Roomsweeper you're limited to one type of ammo (flechette) and by the
> looks of it, no other weapon uses the same round. You can't use
> armor-piercing ammo. You can't use explosive or even gel. The rounds are
> expensive (30 rounds for a Roomsweeper are worth as much as the pistol
> itself). You want to spend that much cash on a weapon that isn't all that
> effective, more power to you.

Now it must be that Im from the East Coast but I didnt ever see anyone
fire anything but shot/bag(gell-stun) or slug untill I got to NM and hit
this list. Do GM's let there players fire explosive and the rest of the neat
ammo? I say this after cranking out a 180K ammo supllement for the Shadowlore
II that deals with REAL WORD ammo for shotguns.
>
> Finally, the concealability issue. Think about the situation. A decent
> pat-down will uncover even a light pistol in real life

Shadowrun is not real life and FASA does not know anything about weapons
and ammo. That said Ill shut up.

Laters Edge

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are infinitely patient, prefering to minimize risks to themelves and
suffer a thousand defeats if they gain the final victory. Still, they are
diabolically clever, and devious in the extream. If they fail militarily,
they infiltrate and corrupt. Now they are on the march once more, and the
more they are set back, the more determined, devious and dangerous they
become. Curr ahee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Peterson (Paul Finch) Edge | US Army Ret. 1/506th Inf (Mtr. Lt.)
EMT-Paramedic/BSN Wanna-be and Will-Be! Self Empowered Gun Nut
Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 15:17:13 +0200
> Finally, the concealability issue. Think about the situation. A decent
> pat-down will uncover even a light pistol in real life.

Yep, concealability ratings are only for observation purposes.
A frisking will always reveal concealed weapons, unless they are so small or
so unweaponlike that you would recongnise them even if they looked you in the
face.

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Message no. 7
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Remington Roomsweeper
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:15:52 -0500
>
> On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
>
> > OK, here's what I know about this little toy.
> >
> > In the Shadowrun Sega Genesis game (don't laugh TOO hard) it is depicted as
> > a very short gun with a cylindrical revolver-type loading system and a very
> > short barrel. Thus, eight rounds could indeed be loaded and concealability
> > kept reasonable (though an 8 conc is still out of the question).
>
Cute, but the rules say that it is a magazine style. Maybe some sort of
drum magazine could work.
> >
> > Next, I see it firing rounds more like .410 than the 10g or 12g mentioned by
> > Rat. Much smaller and more sensible for such a weapon. Also, the
> > Roomsweeper only fires flechette ammunition. Not full blown shot, not
> > slugs. Flechette. Which (to me) can be interpreted as maybe even using a
> > less sizeable round. Say, a shotgun shell the size of a heavy pistol round.
> > Concealability becomes much more sensible when you think of it that way as
> > opposed to a pistol attempting to hold eight 10g shells. (though, once
> > again... an 8 is out of the question).
> >
Well, I always thought it was 12g or 14g- 10g is pretty rare and more
pricey, noppt in fitting with a street gun. But then again, a popular gun
will make for popular ammo, so a special ammo type is not out of the question.

> Why limit the ammo type and size just because the rating says conceal of
> 8. I think that by saying that you might be cheapening the weapon
> itself. > "cheapening" a Y350 heavy pistol class weapon? No, the
question
was just about the reality of packing 8 large rounds into a small magazine.
>
> > With a Roomsweeper you're limited to one type of ammo (flechette) and by the
> > looks of it, no other weapon uses the same round. You can't use
> > armor-piercing ammo. You can't use explosive or even gel. The rounds are
> > expensive (30 rounds for a Roomsweeper are worth as much as the pistol
> > itself). You want to spend that much cash on a weapon that isn't all that
> > effective, more power to you.
>
Ah, so it is not a shoptgun shell (although the rules say to use shotgun
spread rules). Well, restricting it to flecete would make it less popular in
our campaign. But what real world mechanic would make it impossible to load
slugs? For that matter, what the hell is a flecette round, and how do a bunch
of neadles get fired down a rifled pistol or rifle barrel?

Further Reading

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