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Message no. 1
From: docwagon101@*****.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:50:02 +0100 (BST)
Revolvers can't use silencers. Not in Shadowrun.

But I've seen it done on older TV shows, when people
still bothered with revolvers. ;)

So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
effective on revolvers or not?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!





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Message no. 2
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:00:45 +0200
Le 9 juin 2004, à 13:50, Rand Ratinac a écrit :

> Revolvers can't use silencers. Not in Shadowrun.
>
> But I've seen it done on older TV shows, when people
> still bothered with revolvers. ;)
>
> So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
> effective on revolvers or not?

No.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 3
From: captain_knuck1@*******.com (Captain Knuck)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:29:09 +0100
>>So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
>>effective on revolvers or not?
>
> No.

I wouldn't exactly agree to that. 100% effective, then the answer would be
no. I would qualify the answer by saying that it depends on the context. A
signature would most likely reduce the noise signature of the report
considerably, but wouldn't be nearly as effective as a silenced
semi-automatic weapon.

For example, if you were fragging someone in a busy apartment complex and
you didn't want the neighbours or passersby in the corridor to hear the
shot, a revolver silencer might prove effective enough for the job. The
metholdology might be accomplished by raising the target number of a sound
perception test by 2 or so, and even if someone did hear the noise, they
might not perceive it to be a gunshot until they were being interrogated by
Lone Star hours later.

You certainly couldn't acheive a hollywood style phhhtt to eliminate
sentries in a quiet wilderness setting.

CK.

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Message no. 4
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:18:46 +0200
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:50:02 +0100 (BST), Rand Ratinac
<docwagon101@*****.com> wrote:

> Revolvers can't use silencers. Not in Shadowrun.

Neither in the Storyteller System.

> But I've seen it done on older TV shows, when people
> still bothered with revolvers. ;)

You know the TV? Hollywood movies and the like? ;)

> So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
> effective on revolvers or not?

They aren't.
Unlike automatic pistols (take a look on the H&K USP, Glock 17, etc.),
revolvers (Take a look on the S&W .357) aren't "closed" systems, and the
gas, resulting from firing, can go more than one way: between cylinder and
barrel, and not jsut at the front of the gun.
Thus, you'd have to pack the whole firing mechanism into a silencer,
making reloading a bit difficult.

Silencers are based on the principile to catch the gas (whcih is very
hot), and eliminate the explosive sound, as soon as the air at the front
of the gun is heated.
And silencers don't make a weapon silent, they change the sound of the
shot.

So, a silencer would be largely reduced in effectiveness on a revolver.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell (Der Meister) and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 5
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:45:26 -0500
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:29:09 +0100, Captain Knuck
<captain_knuck1@*******.com> wrote:

>
>>> So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
>>> effective on revolvers or not?
>>
>> No.
>
> I wouldn't exactly agree to that.
>
> For example, if you were fragging someone in a busy apartment complex
> and you didn't want the neighbours or passersby in the corridor to hear
> the shot, a revolver silencer might prove effective enough for the job.
> The metholdology might be accomplished by raising the target number of a
> sound perception test by 2 or so, and even if someone did hear the
> noise, they might not perceive it to be a gunshot until they were being
> interrogated by Lone Star hours later.

IIRC, standard modifier for a silenced or sounds suppressed shot over a
normal shot is already +2; Perhaps silnecer on a revolver should only be
+1.

My quck gaming notes have this:
Silenced Unsilenced
SS/SA +2 0
BF 0 -2
FA -2 -4

Those are modifiers to the hearing (Perception) test.

--
Da Twink Daddy
ICQ: 514984; YM: DaTwinkDaddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
Message no. 6
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:05:16 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, on Wednesday 09 June 2004 13:50 the word on the
street was...

> Revolvers can't use silencers. Not in Shadowrun.
>
> But I've seen it done on older TV shows, when people
> still bothered with revolvers. ;)

"Hollywood fiction" are the words you're looking for :)

> So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
> effective on revolvers or not?

Normal silencers are not useful on normal revolvers -- there's usually a
gap between the cylinder and the barrel, so gas will escape there and make
a gunshot noise. The only ways to silence a revolver are to either design
it so there is no gap at the time of firing (which is usually mechanically
complicated), or have the silencer enclose both the muzzle and the
cylinder (making loading more complicated).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:27:56 +0100
In article <20040609115002.61894.qmail@********.mail.yahoo.com>, Rand
Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com> writes
>Revolvers can't use silencers. Not in Shadowrun.
>
>But I've seen it done on older TV shows, when people
>still bothered with revolvers. ;)

Also in "Assault on Precinct 13" and "Soylent Green", from memory.
>
>So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
>effective on revolvers or not?

Not really, though it can be done. The problem is the flash gap between
cylinder and barrel: lots of noise from that even if you muffle the
muzzle and use subsonics.

One solution is to build a silencer that covers that gap. Don't think
it's popular, but it's been done: probably a few dB less effective than
one for an automatic since you're working off face seals, but it can be
and has been done.

Another is to seal the flash gap when firing: the old Russian Nagant
revolver did this, using an extended cartridge case and camming the
cylinder forward on firing.

Still a lot of trouble to go to where a silenced automatic would be much
quicker and easier, though, which explains why the exceptions are so
rare.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 8
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:40:12 +1000
>>So the question I have is, in real life, are silencers
>>effective on revolvers or not?

>Not really, though it can be done. The problem is the flash gap between
>cylinder and barrel: lots of noise from that even if you muffle the
>muzzle and use subsonics.

>One solution is to build a silencer that covers that gap. Don't think
>it's popular, but it's been done: probably a few dB less effective than
>one for an automatic since you're working off face seals, but it can be
>and has been done.

>Another is to seal the flash gap when firing: the old Russian Nagant
>revolver did this, using an extended cartridge case and camming the
>cylinder forward on firing.

>Still a lot of trouble to go to where a silenced automatic would be much
>quicker and easier, though, which explains why the exceptions are so
>rare.

I can't remember where I saw it, but wasn't there a design for an a WW1 or
WW2 revolver that was silenced called a "Hushpuppy"? I remember that it got
the name for being a silenced pistol used to kill guard dogs.
Message no. 9
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:59:26 +0200
According to Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3), on Friday 11 June 2004 03:40
the word on the street was...

> I can't remember where I saw it, but wasn't there a design for an a WW1
> or WW2 revolver that was silenced called a "Hushpuppy"? I remember that
> it got the name for being a silenced pistol used to kill guard dogs.

You're talking about the Smith & Wesson Mk 22 Mod 0 pistol used by US Navy
SEALs in Vietnam. Basically it's a commercial S&W Model 39 self-loading
pistol with a slide lock and a silencer that wears out quickly. You're
right about the source of the nickname, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: flakjacket@***********.com (Simon Nixon)
Subject: Revolvers and silencers
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 02:01:18 +0100 (BST)
Don't think anyone's mentioned it, but as far as I
know one of the few- if only- revolvers that can be
properly suppressed without any modifications or
special ammunition is the M1895 Nagant. It's basically
down to how it was made which is a bit different from
normal designs.

Further Reading

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