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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Bryan Prince <prince%xray.dnet@******.ROC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:11:28 -0400
Subject: RE: Run rewards

A listmember writes:--------------
What would be a sample pay for a run?
eg. How much would a team get for geting a prototype of something,
or for killing someone?
Please answer in terms of nuyen, or relative to something. (eg Four
months of middle lifestyle)
---------------
Generally speaking, I think 10-25 K =Y= per PC, depending on their
shadowrep and difficulty of the job being requested be the Mr. J.

As shadowrep increases, sums of 100K =Y= _each_ are not unheard of.

Shadowmaster
Message no. 2
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:54:36 -0500
>
> Subject: RE: Run rewards
>
> A listmember writes:--------------
> What would be a sample pay for a run?
> eg. How much would a team get for geting a prototype of something,
> or for killing someone?
> Please answer in terms of nuyen, or relative to something. (eg Four
> months of middle lifestyle)
> ---------------
> Generally speaking, I think 10-25 K =Y= per PC, depending on their
> shadowrep and difficulty of the job being requested be the Mr. J.
>
> As shadowrep increases, sums of 100K =Y= _each_ are not unheard of.
>
> Shadowmaster
>
Generally, my caracter, Mongoose, a well equiped but begining samurai,
will not do anything for less than 25k,
unless it matters to him personally. And still I've lost money on every run,
if you consider equipment losses and medical expenses. The phys ad always
razzes him, since she looses no equipment (has very little) and uses magical
healing (ok, I have health insurance of sorts, so med expenses are low).
But then, she always hangs out at the back of a fire fight... while I attack
drones with diacaoted swords.
I'm going to start insisting on expense reimbursements, but that is hard if
you don't have a rep (or have one for high expenses).
Message no. 3
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:40:09 -0700
Yeah, my rigger usually loses money on runs too, since just about
every vehicle-related run ends in said vehicle getting badly damaged.
Especially drones, which usually get totalled. That and having various
limbs ripped off, usually necessitating cyber replacement..
One time we got our money in advance. Didn't help though, cuz
we used it to buy nifty toys for the run, and most of the nifty toys
got munched in the run. And I'm not even going to go into the circumstances
around having the majority of my cyberware get "pushed out" of my body...

You might try doing different pay for different character types. Maybe
a corp could offer to pay the techie-types in cash, and the spell types
in rare materials and foci and stuff....

Speaking of which, does "karma" actually exist as anything other than
a game rule concept? What does giving and recieving karma entail,
role-playing wise? Is it something the characters are actually aware of?
Could a corp pay off a mage in Karma? (You can pay of spirits etc with
Karma, right?)

Dunno, my rigger's mostly familiar with Karma as "that funny burning smell"
when doing tricky flying stuff...

-E
Message no. 4
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 02:51:54 GMT
> > What would be a sample pay for a run?
> > eg. How much would a team get for geting a prototype of something,
> > or for killing someone?
> > Please answer in terms of nuyen, or relative to something. (eg Four
> > months of middle lifestyle)

> Generally, my caracter, Mongoose, a well equiped but begining samurai,
> will not do anything for less than 25k,
> unless it matters to him personally. And still I've lost money on every run,
> if you consider equipment losses and medical expenses. The phys ad always
> razzes him, since she looses no equipment (has very little) and uses magical
> healing (ok, I have health insurance of sorts, so med expenses are low).
> But then, she always hangs out at the back of a fire fight... while I attack
> drones with diacaoted swords.
> I'm going to start insisting on expense reimbursements, but that is hard if
> you don't have a rep (or have one for high expenses).

Expenses are essential. Otherwise the mages just romp ahead: they very
rarely lose money on a run. Lynch once took a Y10,000 job that ended up
costing him Y120,000 in trashed vehicles, ammo, weapons and bribes.
Johnson made the mistake of laughing at him. Lynch broke a golden rule and
sold Johnson for spare parts, thus offsetting some of his losses.

This meant that expenses were on the agenda next time he was hired :-)
Luckily it was a run for the Yak, and they were horrified that their
Johnson had acted so rudely (which is also the reason Lynch reacted so
strongly). So the incident didn't stop him getting his next job, and
did make employers take him a little more seriously.

But you either demand equipment and ammo be provided, or expenses. Otherwise
the riggers in particular really suffer.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 12:32:32 BST
Kama should definitely not be transferrable between players, or even
humans (meta or otherwise), the only people who can recieve it are
spirits (free ones at that), during a ritual of some form or other.

My players are mostly familiar with it. when for some reason, they
bent down, jsut before that sniper round took their face off....
or when the bad guy was jostled by his buddy and stepped into the
line of fire :-)...

Normal pay for one of my runs is between 20-40K per runner, and
only about 5-0k for doing something really drekky (ie. you need
the money, so you'll do it anyway). Most profits are made from
chopping people up and selling their cyber, or from selling
the mil-spec weapon you took of the guards.

NB. This is not a good idea, people tend to notice you carrying
all this stuff away, and it's possible to trace it back to you,
etc. Not too mention the wonders selling a team-mate for parts does
for your rep :-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 6
From: cocheese <ZKLJ1@****.EAST-TENN-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 16:00:11 EDT
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Generally speaking, I think 10-25 K =Y= per PC, depending on their
> shadowrep and difficulty of the job being requested be the Mr. J.
> As shadowrep increases, sums of 100K =Y= _each_ are not unheard of.
> Shadowmaster
> Generally, my caracter, Mongoose, a well equiped but begining samurai,
>will not do anything for less than 25k,
In my group we used to do that but it eventually got out of hand (ea. member
getting at least 30,000Y!) but we ended it and looked to modules for advice
which is usually a lump sum with an expense account and some of the cut up fron
t however, when the survivors collect we would average 10-15,000Y, maybe even
20Y but that left us near destitute poverty all of the time. Other rewards are
contacts; items/equipment; reps; info on stuff, etc.
On a final note, check the original Top Secret (a TSR product), it has a pay li
st. CoCheese
Message no. 7
From: Phil Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Rewards
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:26:01 +0100
I'm glad someone asked that, seems I've been rather generous
on them runners with usual runs earning 30K up to 50K.
(yes a couple of drekky 15-25k runs) but a couple of
rather well rewarding runs where I had assumed they would
sell off stolen goods/data for additional reward but had not
anticipated their double dealing selling, and back stabbing
I think they managed to sell the same data/info to 3 corps
etc.. albeit making another enemy and in total netted 120K each
rather than the 85K I had anticipated, yet they kinda earned it.

However I feel that more important is keeping expenses high
they have to pay - contacts, spend alot to keep they're identities
secure and out of lone star records etc.. rigger costs are high
but everyone chips in. Even the shaman has high expenses since
he is our electronics expert - all those bugs he forks out on
that never get seen again. We play a very easy come - easy go
kind of game.

Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Message no. 8
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:59:23 GMT
Eve Forward writes

> You might try doing different pay for different character types. Maybe
> a corp could offer to pay the techie-types in cash, and the spell types
> in rare materials and foci and stuff....
>
An easy method of offsetting this problem is to keep a team cash
pool and put a fraction of all the money you earn into it. This can
then be used to pay hospital bills, replace destoryed drones, buy
special kit (rockets elementals, e.t.c. that you very rarely use in
normal runs as they cost so much) and so forth. Leaving normal ammo,
expolsives, fetishes and the costs of elementals the mages use to
help themselves to be paid for by the chararter using them is usually
no problem as if you use enough even APDS for the cost to matter you
should have found a more intelligent way to do it! (ok certain FASA
runs do have big unavoidable fights but the pay is still many times
the likely ammo costs)

> Speaking of which, does "karma" actually exist as anything other than
> a game rule concept? What does giving and recieving karma entail,
> role-playing wise? Is it something the characters are actually aware of?
The only lead on this is in the 'Quickening' example in the Grimoire.
Where it is noted as equivalent to lifeforce.

> Could a corp pay off a mage in Karma? (You can pay of spirits etc with
> Karma, right?)
>
Karma transfer other than to free spirits is a questionable matter. I
am not aware of a FASA ruling but many GM's are likely to say no!!!
Wether it is reasonable or not is another matter entirely, as the sam
being able to trade karma to the mage for newyen could make both
rather happy (for 50+ karma characters where the odd point of karma
means much more to the magician than the sam though is still plenty
valuable)

> Dunno, my rigger's mostly familiar with Karma as "that funny burning smell"
> when doing tricky flying stuff...
>

Ah the quantites the rigger gets allocated when its, well you are all
in my '_____' when it goes BANG, can i have the team Karma pool. YES
YES YES YES!!!!!

>

Mark
Message no. 9
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Rewards
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:34:14 +0200
> I'm glad someone asked that, seems I've been rather generous
> on them runners with usual runs earning 30K up to 50K.
> (yes a couple of drekky 15-25k runs) but a couple of
> rather well rewarding runs where I had assumed they would
> sell off stolen goods/data for additional reward but had not
> anticipated their double dealing selling, and back stabbing
> I think they managed to sell the same data/info to 3 corps
> etc.. albeit making another enemy and in total netted 120K each
> rather than the 85K I had anticipated, yet they kinda earned it.
>
> However I feel that more important is keeping expenses high
> they have to pay - contacts, spend alot to keep they're identities
> secure and out of lone star records etc.. rigger costs are high
> but everyone chips in. Even the shaman has high expenses since
> he is our electronics expert - all those bugs he forks out on
> that never get seen again. We play a very easy come - easy go
> kind of game.
>
> Phil
> <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
>

You lucky gits, over the last six runs I netted a grand total of
about 20,000 nuyen, half of that came from a lucky bet with the
bookies !

Andre'

Run, Run, Run away ! It's a Welsh rarebit !

-Essentially Monty Python with modifications
Message no. 10
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:33:19 -0700
>Where it is noted as equivalent to lifeforce.

Ok... then what's Essence? Are the two related? (in a metaphysical sense)
(I konw what Essence is in game terms)

>Karma transfer other than to free spirits is a questionable matter.

Maybe then with nasty blood magic rituals or something you could transfer
lifeforce (Karma) from the vic-- er, donor, to something... I dunno. Maybe
someone could use that for a game plot...

*shrug*

-E
Message no. 11
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:45:01 -0700
>>Where it is noted as equivalent to lifeforce.

>Ok... then what's Essence? Are the two related? (in a metaphysical
sense)
>(I konw what Essence is in game terms)

I would relate karma to - skill, experience and luck.

>>Karma transfer other than to free spirits is a questionable matter.

To bind a free spirit you are giving up a portion of your lifes
experiences
in exchange for their help - remember that spirits are made of from the
fabric of the world, so they are a small part of everyone already.

>Maybe then with nasty blood magic rituals or something you could
transfer
>lifeforce (Karma) from the vic-- er, donor, to something... I
dunno. Maybe
>someone could use that for a game plot...
>
>*shrug*

Interesting - maybe a brain sucker of a ritual that performed some
forces
the allowed you to drain someones experiences. Some spells already like
this (steal skill - is one) just make it permanent or modify it to
convert the skill
back to pure karma. *P.S. this would make you very powerful not
to mention
nearly kill you every time you tried to cast it. It would also
draw the attention
of some VERY powerful creatures like dragons, great spirits and the
like.*
*cute idea though*

>-E

Thanks Gary C.
Message no. 12
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 00:39:54 +1000
Eve Forward <lutra@******.com> wrote:

> Yeah, my rigger usually loses money on runs too, since just about
> every vehicle-related run ends in said vehicle getting badly damaged.
> Especially drones, which usually get totalled. That and having various
> limbs ripped off, usually necessitating cyber replacement..

Dead right. Riggers really suffer - they haemorrhage money.
We didn't find a solution in our game, before it wound up.
There were suggestions of researching magical healing for
mechanical and electronic devices, just to balance things
up for the poor damned rigger.

>> [what is Karma, in game terms?]

> Dunno, my rigger's mostly familiar with Karma as "that funny burning smell"
> when doing tricky flying stuff...

[Sad grin.] True. So true.

I've always considered it to sort of represent total, bloody-minded
determination. (When you're burning it, I mean.)

luke
Message no. 13
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: rewards
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 08:58:17 GMT
> From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>

> >>Where it is noted as equivalent to lifeforce.
>
> >Ok... then what's Essence? Are the two related? (in a metaphysical
> sense)
> >(I konw what Essence is in game terms)
>
> I would relate karma to - skill, experience and luck.
>
Essence. Well its used sort of as how human you are, but really seems
to be FASA's game mechanic to limit cyberware. It works but as some
folks have said in other threads a link to reality is a bit tenuous.

> >>Karma transfer other than to free spirits is a questionable matter.
>
> To bind a free spirit you are giving up a portion of your lifes
> experiences
> in exchange for their help - remember that spirits are made of from the
> fabric of the world, so they are a small part of everyone already.
>
That implies you could say do it via the astral contact you get for
joining a magical group? Now how do you make that mundane attuned to
the astral ? um ah ugh, suggestions? (any part of this)

> >Maybe then with nasty blood magic rituals or something you could
> transfer
> >lifeforce (Karma) from the vic-- er, donor, to something... I
> dunno. Maybe
> >someone could use that for a game plot...
> >
> >*shrug*
>
> Interesting - maybe a brain sucker of a ritual that performed some
> forces
> the allowed you to drain someones experiences. Some spells already like
> this (steal skill - is one) just make it permanent or modify it to
> convert the skill
> back to pure karma. *P.S. this would make you very powerful
Understatement if anything.

> not to mention
> nearly kill you every time you tried to cast it. It would also
> draw the attention
> of some VERY powerful creatures like dragons, great spirits and the
> like.*
> *cute idea though*
>
Which i would hope would be enough of a drawback to put people off an
idea that is rather game unbalancing, from willing (truely willing)
targets is one thing. Note that some characters would be plain
outright unprepared to steal someones very life energy anyway, though
there are no doubt plenty who would.

> >-E
>
> Thanks Gary C.
>
Mark

Further Reading

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