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Message no. 1
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 03:11:57 +0000
WARNING: If you don't like the idea of a new system, delete this message.
We don't need a flood of "But why?"-messages...

Anyway, this is something a friend of mine and me came up with lately
(Well, I came up with ideas and he told me it sucked until there was
something not completely boken :)). It's based on Steve K.'s system and
what came of my discussion with losthalo (yup, I finally rewrote the
damage-codes)

Anyway, here it is:

(Note: This is far from completed and I'd like your feedback to get it
working)
---------------------------------------[snippa!]---------------------------

First of all, a quick summary:
-Physical damage is only resisted with armor
-Damage is measured in damage boxes instead of the old 9M or 4M2-codes
-Stun damage is resisted with a armor and parts of body OR willpower
-The number of damage boxes you can survive is based on your body

Physical damage:
Physical damage is actual wounds and as Steve Kenson so eloquently said,
muscles are not going to stop bullets. So when resisting physical-damage,
you roll your armor-rating against the number of damage-boxes (Let's call
the DBs...reminds me of assembler...). For every succsess you get, the
damage is reduces by one DB. Note that the number of sucsesses the attacker
gets are added to the DBs after that.

Example: Sam the Sam fires a bullet at Vicy, the victim. Sam fires a weapon
that does...say 6 DBs (I haven't yet figured any actual damage codes out),
Viccy has body 3 and Sam firearms 4. Now Vicy got shot last week while
shopping and got herself an armor-vest (ballistic 4).
Sam shoots and gets 2 sucsesses, Vicy's player rolls 4 dice against 6 (the
weapons damage) and get's 1 succsess. That's 6DB + 2 (for Sam's roll) - 1
(for Vicy's vest) = 7DB. So Vicy is pretty close to death.
If she had 4 successes (ok, that's unlikely...) it would have been
6+2-4MBs

Stun damage
While a tough body might not stop stop bullets, it does stop fists. So when
resisting stun, you roll 1/2 of the char's body OR willpower plus armor.
This is also true when resisting drain (mainly because I always wanted a
troll-shaman that didn't suck:))

The character:
Every character get 7+body boxes on his damage monitor for physical and
7+body OR 7+willpower boxes for stun damage. This allows a char to control
himself when taking stun damage and as drain is much harder to resist (see
'stun damage' above) it allows high willpower-mages to cast more spells
than someone with low willpower)

Melee combat:
While firearms are rather easy to convert, melee is a bit harder, as you
have to include the strenght into the damage. What we came up is to add 1/3
of the strength (round up) to the damage. We figured that it doesn't matter
much how hard you stab someone with a knife, but with blunt weapons this
isn't really true. OTOH I wouldn't want another system for blunt weapons.
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to add, that I'm (this time without my friend)
toying around with adding physical damage to the stun, if a certain degree
is reached (say, if the attacker does more than 6 DBs, you add half of the
DBs as physical. That way, a troll with a baseball-bat *does* break some
bones)

Drain:
This is something I'm not really happy with. Anyway, the basic idea was to
give every spell a base drain (a number of DBs) and add something like 1/2
of the force to this. So if a firebomb did 6 DBs of drain, a force 6
firebomb did 9 DBs of drain (And I doubt anyone can resist that). As for
centering, add half of the skill to the willpower-test.

Questions, comments, ideas? (NO flames! :))


...hell I'm sure i left something out!

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 2
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:41:25 -0500
On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 03:11:57 +0000 Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
writes:
<<WARNING: If you don't like the idea of a new system, delete this
message. We don't need a flood of "But why?"-messages...>>


But why? :):):) Ivy won't like this, you know... ;)


<<Anyway, this is something a friend of mine and me came up with lately
(Well, I came up with ideas and he told me it sucked until there was
something not completely boken :)). It's based on Steve K.'s system and
what came of my discussion with losthalo (yup, I finally rewrote the
damage-codes)>>


Well, I should be fairly unbiased... I ignored both previous
conversations:)


<<Anyway, here it is:

(Note: This is far from completed and I'd like your feedback to get it
working)>>


Oh, sure, always you, you, you. Well what about my needs?
:):) (Man, am *I* in a weird mood tonight!)


<<First of all, a quick summary:
-Physical damage is only resisted with armor
-Damage is measured in damage boxes instead of the old 9M or
4M2-codes>>


That, in and of itself, is an improvement over the current system, though
I think that it will wind up complicating some things a bit... Or not,
come to think of it. <shrug>


<< -Stun damage is resisted with a armor and parts of body OR
willpower>>


Is that because you haven't decided or will it be whichever is
highest/lowest/closest to 10/etc?


<< -The number of damage boxes you can survive is based on your
body>>


Just noting that this is already partially compensated for in the current
system as the number of overflow boxes you get is equal to your Body or
some such...


<<Physical damage:
Physical damage is actual wounds and as Steve Kenson so eloquently said,
muscles are not going to stop bullets.>>


Muscles may not stop bullets, but they aren't (with the exception of a
few special muscles) nearly as vital as other areas of the body... like
the kidneys or liver... Lots of bulk means it is a heck of a lot harder
to hit something vital... (having looked ahead that is accounted for in
some capacity by the manner in which damage boxes are figured)


<<So when resisting physical-damage, you roll your armor-rating against
the number of damage-boxes (Let's call the DBs...reminds me of
assembler...). For every succsess you get, the damage is reduces by one
DB. Note that the number of sucsesses the attacker gets are added to the
DBs after that.>>


Sounds like that could get *real* deadly, *real* frigging fast... On the
other hand, since we're not dealing with damage levels any more, maybe
not.

<example snipped>

Looks at least as simple as the current system as far as staging goes...
though I think you're going to wind up with something that is deadlier
(especially for low-body folks) than the standard system...


<<Stun damage
While a tough body might not stop stop bullets, it does stop fists. So
when resisting stun, you roll 1/2 of the char's body OR willpower plus
armor. This is also true when resisting drain (mainly because I always
wanted a troll-shaman that didn't suck:))>>


Hold up a minute... I get *armor* when resisting spell drain?! Did you
intend that, or was that just unclear from how it's written above?


<<The character:
Every character get 7+body boxes on his damage monitor for physical and
7+body OR 7+willpower boxes for stun damage. This allows a char to
control himself when taking stun damage and as drain is much harder to
resist (see 'stun damage' above) it allows high willpower-mages to cast
more spells than someone with low willpower)>>


Looks okay... your average shmoe is still going to have his ten boxes on
each end.... though your trolls could wind up with fewer stun boxes than
a human, depending on which way you go there... I'd suggest just making
the whole thing body based, myself... it saves heartburn later.


<<Melee combat:
While firearms are rather easy to convert, melee is a bit harder, as you
have to include the strenght into the damage. What we came up is to add
1/3 of the strength (round up) to the damage. We figured that it doesn't
matter much how hard you stab someone with a knife, but with blunt
weapons this isn't really true. OTOH I wouldn't want another system for
blunt weapons. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to add, that I'm (this time
without my friend) toying around with adding physical damage to the stun,
if a certain degree is reached (say, if the attacker does more than 6
DBs, you add half of the DBs as physical. That way, a troll with a
baseball-bat *does* break some bones)>>


That makes sense (for the most part, anyway). I would suggest just
setting up damage codes for melee weapons according to the weapon... a
sword is going to automatically have physical damage, but that baseball
bat will depend more on your strength (based on what you've got laid out
above). If nothing else, I like the idea of rolling over some boxes from
blunt trauma.


<<Drain:
This is something I'm not really happy with. Anyway, the basic idea was
to give every spell a base drain (a number of DBs) and add something like
1/2 of the force to this. So if a firebomb did 6 DBs of drain, a force 6
firebomb did 9 DBs of drain (And I doubt anyone can resist that). As for
centering, add half of the skill to the willpower-test.>>


Quite reasonable, though it will, understandably, hit us spellworms
hard:)



>...hell I'm sure i left something out!


You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

--
John Pederson Canthros, the tired shapeshifter-mage
G'night everybody!
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 3
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:55:45 +0000
On 25 Dec 97 at 23:41, John E Pederson wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 03:11:57 +0000 Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
> writes:
> <<WARNING: If you don't like the idea of a new system, delete this
> message. We don't need a flood of "But why?"-messages...>>
>
>
> But why? :):):) Ivy won't like this, you know... ;)

Yeah, it's a houserule (and a not yet finished one!). Anyway, all it needs
is a *plonk* to get her quiet...:)

> <<Anyway, this is something a friend of mine and me came up with lately
> (Well, I came up with ideas and he told me it sucked until there was
> something not completely boken :)). It's based on Steve K.'s system and
> what came of my discussion with losthalo (yup, I finally rewrote the
> damage-codes)>>
>
>
> Well, I should be fairly unbiased... I ignored both previous
> conversations:)

Hmmmm, well maybe you should check Steve's artical. He explains thigs
rather nicely there...

> <<Anyway, here it is:
>
> (Note: This is far from completed and I'd like your feedback to get it
> working)>>
>
>
> Oh, sure, always you, you, you. Well what about my needs?
> :):) (Man, am *I* in a weird mood tonight!)

Hey, write your own twisted damage-system! This is mine, MINE, *MINE*!!!
:)

> <<First of all, a quick summary:
> -Physical damage is only resisted with armor
> -Damage is measured in damage boxes instead of the old 9M or
> 4M2-codes>>
>
>
> That, in and of itself, is an improvement over the current system, though
> I think that it will wind up complicating some things a bit... Or not,
> come to think of it. <shrug>

What I really like about is that you can make multipiers for other targets.
Right now, I'm thinking of x2 for vehicles (thus, a 6DB weapon would only
do 3DB against a vehicle (seems to work GREAT with the body/armor-stuff
from R2) and maybe x50 for naval-vehicles (or after Jon's explaination of
the codes, it might be 20*e^x (Now that's a bit complicated!))

> << -Stun damage is resisted with a armor and parts of body OR
> willpower>>
>
>
> Is that because you haven't decided or will it be whichever is
> highest/lowest/closest to 10/etc?

You take the highes of both. This way, a troll can take quite a lot (which
he should) and a mage can take also quite a lot.

> << -The number of damage boxes you can survive is based on your
> body>>
>
>
> Just noting that this is already partially compensated for in the current
> system as the number of overflow boxes you get is equal to your Body or
> some such...

Hmmm...yeah. We are thinking about that. Maybe we add 'body'-boxes and let
you survive one minute per box (although that gives people with high
body-ratings a bit too many boxes to fill(To get back to Gurth
mega-troll, he'd have 43 boxes.). Another way simply a fixed number of
boxes. Or just leave them out...

> <<Physical damage:
> Physical damage is actual wounds and as Steve Kenson so eloquently said,
> muscles are not going to stop bullets.>>
>
>
> Muscles may not stop bullets, but they aren't (with the exception of a
> few special muscles) nearly as vital as other areas of the body... like
> the kidneys or liver... Lots of bulk means it is a heck of a lot harder
> to hit something vital... (having looked ahead that is accounted for in
> some capacity by the manner in which damage boxes are figured)

Yup. You can take more damage, but you do take damage. The thing was just
that BTB someone could stop a bullet with his naked chest alone....

> <<So when resisting physical-damage, you roll your armor-rating against
> the number of damage-boxes (Let's call the DBs...reminds me of
> assembler...). For every succsess you get, the damage is reduces by one
> DB. Note that the number of sucsesses the attacker gets are added to the
> DBs after that.>>
>
>
> Sounds like that could get *real* deadly, *real* frigging fast... On the
> other hand, since we're not dealing with damage levels any more, maybe
> not.

It is deadlier, as it's harder to resist. OTOH, staging damage up takes
more sucsesses (from S to D (or 6DB to 10DB) you need two successes right
now. With this rules 4...)

> <example snipped>
>
> Looks at least as simple as the current system as far as staging goes...
> though I think you're going to wind up with something that is deadlier
> (especially for low-body folks) than the standard system...

Granted. Maybe I make hitting someone harder (+1 or +2 on all
firearms/gunnery tests), though I like the game more lethal (right now I do
that by tweaking the original rules....).
OTOH, I don't know how it works against normal runners. Well, we'll test it
on sunday...

> <<Stun damage
> While a tough body might not stop stop bullets, it does stop fists. So
> when resisting stun, you roll 1/2 of the char's body OR willpower plus
> armor. This is also true when resisting drain (mainly because I always
> wanted a troll-shaman that didn't suck:))>>
>
>
> Hold up a minute... I get *armor* when resisting spell drain?! Did you
> intend that, or was that just unclear from how it's written above?

Whooops. TYPO! Of course you don't <sound of banging haed against the wall>

> <<The character:
> Every character get 7+body boxes on his damage monitor for physical and
> 7+body OR 7+willpower boxes for stun damage. This allows a char to
> control himself when taking stun damage and as drain is much harder to
> resist (see 'stun damage' above) it allows high willpower-mages to cast
> more spells than someone with low willpower)>>
>
>
> Looks okay... your average shmoe is still going to have his ten boxes on
> each end.... though your trolls could wind up with fewer stun boxes than
> a human, depending on which way you go there... I'd suggest just making
> the whole thing body based, myself... it saves heartburn later.

As I said, you can choose. What I really like is that it makes
ork/troll-magicians more useful (they can take more drain then the rest)...
(BTW, dermal armor does NOT count!)

> <<Melee combat:
> While firearms are rather easy to convert, melee is a bit harder, as you
> have to include the strenght into the damage. What we came up is to add
> 1/3 of the strength (round up) to the damage. We figured that it doesn't
> matter much how hard you stab someone with a knife, but with blunt
> weapons this isn't really true. OTOH I wouldn't want another system for
> blunt weapons. Oh yeah, I nearly forgot to add, that I'm (this time
> without my friend) toying around with adding physical damage to the stun,
> if a certain degree is reached (say, if the attacker does more than 6
> DBs, you add half of the DBs as physical. That way, a troll with a
> baseball-bat *does* break some bones)>>
>
>
> That makes sense (for the most part, anyway). I would suggest just
> setting up damage codes for melee weapons according to the weapon... a
> sword is going to automatically have physical damage,

Of course...


> but that baseball
> bat will depend more on your strength (based on what you've got laid out
> above). If nothing else, I like the idea of rolling over some boxes from
> blunt trauma.

One of the nice things this allows is special martial-arts (though there is
a lot of room for muchies there). You just change the damage you have to do
to go physical and/or the amount of physical damage you do when you reach
than level....<egmg>

> <<Drain:
> This is something I'm not really happy with. Anyway, the basic idea was
> to give every spell a base drain (a number of DBs) and add something like
> 1/2 of the force to this. So if a firebomb did 6 DBs of drain, a force 6
> firebomb did 9 DBs of drain (And I doubt anyone can resist that). As for
> centering, add half of the skill to the willpower-test.>>
>
>
> Quite reasonable, though it will, understandably, hit us spellworms
> hard:)

Yeah, but that's intended. SR is Cyberpunk after all, so whatever you do,
it's not going to be very good to you. And after haveing seen someone cast
the mentioned force 6 firebomb WITHOUT drain, you'll like it....:)

> >...hell I'm sure i left something out!
>
>
> You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

Yeah, vehicles (before Jon comes and asks for it):
Vehicles get the same amount of boxes as chars (7+body), but all damage
goes through a multiplication (the x2 I mentioned before), to a 10DBC
(damage boxes, character) does 5DBV (damage boxes, vehicle). And a 20DBV
(maybe a PAC) does 40DBC...
FYI, every weapon above LMGs is a vehiclular weapon...(so a single round
from a GPHMG is a Bad Thing, even for a troll...)
Oh yeah, the barrier rating: The armor stops everything that doesn't do
more DBVs than the armor rating (So the R2 Aguilar (sp?) stops everything
up to 10DBV. Forget about your Predators, folks!)


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 4
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:35:57 PST
>Anyway, here it is:
>
>(Note: This is far from completed and I'd like your feedback to get it
working)

[snippa!]

I won't include any specific points (i don't like the physical/armor
idea), BUT:

Where's the TN penalties for getting hurt? Since total boxes change per
character stats, they'd likely depend ont those stats, not just boxes
taken. Good luck.

Do you have DMZ (the sr "boardgame")? Thesystem has many similarities
to yours. Take a look at it. My personal gripe with DMZ was that
damage effects were fairly random (2d6 added to damage effect)- adding
attacksucceses instead for Role Play fixes that. Unfortunately, it uses
body in the same manner as armor, to completely avoid all damage (hey,
its a miniatures game). Body / will vs DB would work well there. Best
of all, DMZ has box based damge codes already listed!

resistance VS only DB's limits your options- there may be things very
easy to resist with armor (or body / wilpower) that can do vast damage
if not resisted, and things that do minor, hard to resist, damage.

Auto fire and shotguns (not to mention autofire shotguns) seem overated-
shotguns don't kill elephants, and not all bullets from auto fire hit.

What about combat magic?

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Message no. 5
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:55:43 +0000
On 26 Dec 97 at 11:35, Mon goose wrote:

> >Anyway, here it is:
> >
> >(Note: This is far from completed and I'd like your feedback to get it
> working)
>
> [snippa!]
>
> I won't include any specific points (i don't like the physical/armor
> idea), BUT:
>
> Where's the TN penalties for getting hurt? Since total boxes change per
> character stats, they'd likely depend ont those stats, not just boxes
> taken. Good luck.

OK, one of the things I forgot....Anyway, I use the same light, moderate,
serious, deadly table the BBB uses, you just make it all realtive to the
number of boxes a char can take. If e.g. the char can take 15 boxes (that's
body 8), he'd have a light wound at 2DBs, a moderate at 5 DBs, serious at
9DBs and deadly at 15.

> Do you have DMZ (the sr "boardgame")?

Nope.

> Thesystem has many similarities
> to yours. Take a look at it. My personal gripe with DMZ was that
> damage effects were fairly random (2d6 added to damage effect)- adding
> attacksucceses instead for Role Play fixes that. Unfortunately, it uses
> body in the same manner as armor, to completely avoid all damage (hey,
> its a miniatures game). Body / will vs DB would work well there. Best
> of all, DMZ has box based damge codes already listed!

Hmmm...I know someone who wants to sell his DMZ. Maybe I'll buy it...

> resistance VS only DB's limits your options- there may be things very
> easy to resist with armor (or body / wilpower) that can do vast damage
> if not resisted, and things that do minor, hard to resist, damage.

Are there? I've never seen a 18L or 2D damagecode. Besides, I can't think
up anything IRL that does that.

> Auto fire and shotguns (not to mention autofire shotguns) seem overated-
> shotguns don't kill elephants, and not all bullets from auto fire hit.

Hmmm...You add a number of DBs to the attack, equal to all the bullets that
hit (when attacking FA). Personally, I let the attacker roll after every
three rounds fired and then add the successes. Agreed, that makes FA fire
really deadly, but it should be, right? And about elephants: They have body
15, according to the BBB. That's 22 DBs they can survive. You'll need a
vehicular weapon do do that amount of damage!

> What about combat magic?

Comabt magic is nasty, granted. You have no armor to resist, so you take
the damage, nomatter what. Then again, drain is tougher...

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 6
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:22:26 -0500
At 11:35 AM 12/26/97 PST, you wrote:
>Auto fire and shotguns (not to mention autofire shotguns) seem overated-
>shotguns don't kill elephants, and not all bullets from auto fire hit.

Elephants aren't the basis of SR damage codes for firearms, people are.
Shotguns chew *people* up. As for FA, I think they assume that a
significant number of rounds hit, though not all the rounds in the burst.


losthalo@********.comGoFa6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoB4/19.2Bk!cBkc8MBV6sM3ZG
oPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4bSSH173g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************
4h7sM8zSsYnk6BSMmpFNN0393NRfmSLusOH1Whileyouarelisteningyourwillingat
tentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome
Message no. 7
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 02:47:11 +0000
On 26 Dec 97, Zixx disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

<snip>
> > What about combat magic?
>
> Comabt magic is nasty, granted. You have no armor to resist, so you
> take the damage, nomatter what. Then again, drain is tougher...

Well, I doubt that "no matter what". That's where your mage buddy
comes in with Spell Defense dice and Shielding. ;>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO;
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
[I am] bright, charming, witty, athletic...go read Castiglione and Lord Byron for
particulars, as I'm modest, aloof and reticent, as well. - Merlin
Message no. 8
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:25:53 +0000
On 27 Dec 97 at 2:47, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:


> <snip>
> > > What about combat magic?
> >
> > Comabt magic is nasty, granted. You have no armor to resist, so you
> > take the damage, nomatter what. Then again, drain is tougher...
>
> Well, I doubt that "no matter what". That's where your mage buddy
> comes in with Spell Defense dice and Shielding. ;>

Grrrrhhhh! Nitpicker!




:)

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 9
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:47:16 PST
"Melee Reactions" in our campaign would range from 3 to 68. Yeesh.
Hell, the guy with 68 (17+4d6) could get a melee edge on SPIRITS, with
thier 1 inititive die, they generally would have "melee reactions" under
25, even though thier manifest inititive is around 30.

"Melee reaction", as it stands, is reperesnted by melee SKILL, and that
doesn't really bother me any more. Non-sentients even use reaction AS
melee.

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:24:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: maciej grzeszczuk <krap@********.PSE.PL>
Organization: KTO PANU POZWOLIL wysylac polskie literki do internetu?
Subject: happy new year!

to all shadowrunne
Message no. 10
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:44:01 +0000
Makes sense. However, the ceiling limitation (6m) will prove to be a
problem.

FRAG ALL! My barrier's hung up on another air vent, or ceiling fan, or
light, or what ever.

Your shaman needs a new size for that barrier, something under 4m, say
3m to be effective. Most structures do not have ceilings over 3m or
passages over 4m in width. Remember every piece of furniture & any
downed bodies in the path of the barrier ARE OBSTACLES

--Aztec Sec Guard one: did you notice that hanging flower basket start
swinging as she went by?
--Aztec Sec Guard two: yup .... central we got us a spell slinger down
here.

Have a nice day

ceedawg
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:44:01 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Karma Pool query
In-Reply-To: <199801012227.XAA30617@*
Message no. 11
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:21:57 PST
--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:32:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Melee Combat Revisited
In-Reply-To: <4015.199801012050@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 01-Jan-98 wrote Spike:

>|Barbie, you're right. He's got a RSN-generator....

>What's an RSM generator?

Random Silly Name generator :):)

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:34:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Another barriers question (not related to the psychokinetic
one
In-Reply-To: <199801020944.KAA10346@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 01-Jan-98 wrote Gurth:



>All this makes the spell an effective tool if used in open spaces or when
>the shaman doesn't want to go anywhere, but not a handy choice in most
>buildings.

>Any thoughts?

agrred with your ruling, I do it myself so.
For in building work is the personal barrier after :)

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:50:54 +0000
I'm taking into consideration improved tech of 2058 to account for the
increased range


> >Bullets are travaling at well over the speed of sound. So Mr. Target
> >could already be down and dead before the sound of shot even arrives.
> >You sneak out nice and quite and nobody knows who did it or from
> >where... That chummer is what sniper opperations are all about.
>
> That's only a small part of what sniping's about.

That's in a nut shell it's all about stealth and nothing more.

> What about law enforcement work, for instance?

Stealth what good is an overwatch if everyone knows you have one and
where he overwatch is located.
> >> Now we're talking serious ranging and you get indirect fire capabilities
> >> thrown in for free (including accurate air bursts with a Smartlink II)!
> >> Muzzle flash is waaaay down and the round/weapon is pretty quiet compared
> >> to a conventional rifle.
> >
> >Get a medium vercial weapon and a gyro mount if all you want is range
> >and flash supressors are easy to design.
> >You seem to almost if not totally clue less as to what sniper rifles are
> >why they work the way they do.
>
> Given that Hathcock used to snipe with a M2HB heavy machine gun, I'd say
> that the definition's more flexible than you seem to believe.

That was for the rounds M2's are nasty and he was also at very extream
ranges when he used them.


> BTW, an excellent book for many aspects of Shadowrun is David Mason's
> "Shadow over Babylon". It relates to sniping in that the objective is to
> place a sniper 1,200 metres from his target, and have him make a one
> shot kill of that target. The operation to do so is superbly written,
> and the difficulties involved in rifle shooting at such range is also
> covered very well.

This I will agree with as I've read it an very good book to read and you
have read where did you come up
with this drek about burst fire and sniper opperations.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:28:50 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniper rifles
Content-Type: text/plain

Gee... hardly any math at all... :)
I sit corrected.
-Vagabond

>Damon Harper said on 13:03/ 3 Jan 98...
>
>> Well, assuming you do fire from 2km away, it's not like the sound
will
>> take forever to arrive, I don't want to do the math on it, but I
imagine
>> no more than 2 seconds after the bullet hits.
>
>6 seconds more like it. Hardly any math involved: speed of sound is
about
>340 m/s, 2000 m / 340 m/s = 5.88 s.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl

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Message no. 13
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:59:57 +0000
Of a spirit that could kill me instantly? of course!! she'd probably bur
off my right leg and say she was thwapping me.I'm glad I quickened all
those different types of barriers.I'm safe from barbie,for now anyways.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:19:46 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <m009ig02@*****.mcmail.com>
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Cyberpirates prices
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Just a quick check to see if I'm being stupid or cynical.

In cyberpirates it lists the comparative costs of things compared to
Seattle prices. I can't find Sex-Slaves in the Seatlle list, or any
other lists for that matter.

Is it therefore a good estimate to use the price of selling a person
to an organ-legg
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:41:44 +0100
Yes damnit! It's empty!

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/shadowrn/srnfaq1.html <= Get it. Memorize!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:32:09 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniper rifles
Content-Type: text/plain

>But, that *is* how the military uses snipers. One Shot, One Kill. And
>then get the hell out of Dodge.

That's part-true. But let's remember the military isn't the only ones
to use snipers. How about law-enforcement? They may use them to
neutralize a target, but they also use to cover the people that are
already there.
Snipers of both spheres are also used to supress enemy fire. Often
I've heard of 'snipers' using M-60s(a machine gun) to pin down an emeny
position while the ground-pounders flank or foward them.
*shrug* Let's just all admit that being a sniper in name has many
conotations, it doesn't mean your Carlos Hathcock OR Arnold
Schwarzenegger. :)

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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:34:38 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Datajacks and VCR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/pl
Message no. 15
From: Les Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:09:31 -0500
Prehaps but I happen to think the cost of production and demands of
military and/or para military
sales would make the number of rounds and calibers decrease. If you wish
to include calibers in your house rules feel free to do so. However one
person in the game I'm involved in knows next to nothing about arms and
ammo and he plays a street sammie. He doesn't need to know that what the
diffences between .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP), .40 S&W or what is
diffent about .38special .38P+ the assorted magnums .357 .41 and .44
etc.
Yes they are all diffent but knowing about bullets does not make you a
better role player or even enhance the game play if anything it
complicates it to a less than nessary degree. I might lack some degree
of realism but the slowing of game play is not worth the cost of
realism. One of the most wonderfully detailed systems every created was
Aftermath thing is you wanted to fire a mortar or other indirect fire
weapon you had to actually learn how it was done very accurate and
highly realistic but not really something you need to be able to play a
game...

Regards
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:50:47 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Sv: Sniper rifles
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Carsten Gehling wrote:
>
> > Your ignorance is showing and we can consider this converstion at an end
> > if you can not figure out this simple fact. One shot and one flash are
> > difficult to trace and locate. Three shorts is a dead give away of your
> > position via muzzle flash you seem to think that those extra seconds of
> > light make no diffence in weather or not you will be detected. Light
> > travels really fast when compared to a bullet or sounds and all that
> > light from that supressed muzzle flash is definatly enough to give you
> > away...
>
> Besides, the military opposition does not need to get your exact position to kill you
with some rounds of mortar or artillery (and believe me, they will "waste" that
much ammo to get a sniper).
>
That is the point if you use stealth to stay hidden you might live. If
they even have a clue where you are you are quite dead. So giving away
your position with things like bust fire is very bad. That is the US
Army and
Marine corps version of sniper opps and if you want to call other stuff
sniper opps go ahead. The brits and law enforcement have a different
opionion about what a sniper is about. I happen to use the limited
strike and great stealth school of thinking in these matters. When it
becomes more than one bullet one body the chances of detection go way up
and thus you become a target.
Message no. 16
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:28:55 +0000
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:07:59 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-01-04 01:47:35 EST, you write:

> Which book? And I feel that a fire cloud will do just as good with out
> as much collateral damage.And if you want that cast a firewall spell
> (it's in awakenings.)

Toxic Wave is what is now called Acid Bomb (I think) in second ed Grimoire ...

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:11:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Groom Lake / Area 51
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Avenger wrote:

> In article <01bd1a24$
Message no. 17
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:05:26 -0700
<split the line of thought>

Which would have the effect mentioned in the book about Smart Materials that
it also increases the speed, acceleration, and load ratings of the vehicle /
naval vessel by an additional 15% ... and I would even modify the cavitation
speed rating by the 15% also ... and perhaps even throw in the +1 signature
boost that a chopper gets too ...

As for the counterwaves to offset the power-plant noise and vibrations ...
perhaps that could be considered as part of the Signature increase mentioned
in the the design specifications area
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:57:48 +0100
True, but a submaring is also not a sentient living organism that is built for
just that sort of propulsion ... in this case to apply it to a submarine, the
alloys involved would have to be extremely flexible from the contracting /
expansion that they would have to perform to assist in making the sub move ...
in terms of feasability, I could see something like this being an option for
the smaller Mini-subs as mentioned in the R2 ... but not for a true naval
vessel as mentioned in the Cyberpirates ... and as for cost, this would be
astronomical if placed on a naval category submarine ...

On a side note, perhaps you could give us your take on what the design cost,
etc, of this "Cetacean Drive" would cost ?

Thanks,

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:37:06 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Jon Szeto wrote ...

> Snake-Eyes, as I originally designed it, allows a rigger to experience the
> sensory input from a flesh-and-blood metahuman, just as if that person was
a
> drone. However, it does NOT give the rigger control over the character,
> because the Snake-Eyes cyberware interfaces only with the sensory lobes of
> the
> brain. It does not have any connection to the parts of the brain that deal
> with motor control, so it is physically impossible for a rigger to take
> control of a character. (To use an analogy, it's like a cassette walkman
> player that can't record, because it has no record head to overwrite the
> data
> onto the magnetic tape.)

Yes, I understand that Snake-Eyes does not give access to the motor control of
a person ... it is just to satisfy the rule that a drone must have some sort
of sensor rating attached to it ... and does that mean that Snake-Eyes is
basically installing Sensor Level 1 into a person ?

> On the other hand, it COULD be possible for some corp out there to design a
> piece of cyberware SIMILAR to Snake-Eyes that would also connect to the
> brain's motor functions. The specifics are left as as an exercise for
house-
> rule designers. (Post URLs to the mailing list when you have completed this
> assignment :)

The reason for the MBW .. which will be explained later ...

> > A question, would the level of the MBW act as a form of Structural
Agility
> for
> > the rigger also ? The level adds to the rigger's
Message no. 19
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:08:46 +0000
Danube ? (I don't know if it's spelled like this in english... :)


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:56:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Graves, Durand E. (Temporary at ALCOA)"
<Durand.Graves@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: MASKING!!! (Re: Masking Adept)

I would guess that the number of successes would depict the perception of
the spell, unless the Mage is trying to hide the spell, in which the force
of the spell AND the grade of the Mage would come into play. But that's
just my two cents worth.


Durand
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:27:09 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Year of Earthdawn
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106160622.006c9b24@****.mhnet.fr> from "William
Gallas" at Jan 6, 98 04:06:22 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did William Gallas hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>Don't know why you did that.
|>Ba
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:47:36 +0000
It just occured to me that I misread your post Zixx :)

Andy is right: ..combat and manipulation.. ..fireball and flamebomb.

As are you :)

-David
--
"I don't think that word means what you think it means."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:04:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce Ford <shaman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Year of Earthdawn
In-Reply-To: <7538.199801061217@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Spike wrote:

> I hope you're going to deal with language difficulties. I REALLY hope so.
> Think about it. No-one in Barsaive can speak English, and imagine even
> sperethiel will be very different to the modern day variant.
>
> (Remember, Barsaive adepts have access to the "Learn & Speak language by
> just listening to someone speak for a few minutes" talent, but shadowrunners
> don't.)

That would be simple enough to overcome from a GM's standpoint.
Though I am not familiar with ED all that much or it's rules, so forgive
me if this would not work but this is how I would overcome it. These
adepts have a magical device (spell lock) that allows something very
similar [a universal translator of sorts], once they have learned the PC's
language, explaining the concept of the device and give it to the PC's to
communicate. Each PC has to be with a certain radius and must donate 1
Karma temporarily to activate the device. They can then communicate,
though the adepts would want the device back when they leave
Message no. 21
From: Les Ward <lward@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:23:58 -0500
On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:37:33 -0500 Justin Pinnow wrote

> > From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
> > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 9:22 AM
>
> > Okay, losthalo, I went looking for a quote on this one ...

[SNIP quote from grimoire about spell design]

> This, I believe, is a misinterpretation of the rules....but I don't think
> it's really your fault. The base drain of a spell would be whatever is
> listed as the drain code for that spell. However, this argument is moot
> anyway, since you can't center against drain the way that was discussed
> earlier on this list. You roll your centering skill dice vs. a TN equal to
> the drain code for casting the spell. Every 2 successes is one success
> that you get to add to your drain resistance roll. However, you can only
> use these successes if you generate at least one success on the drain
> resistance test (not including centering d
Message no. 22
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:55:27 +0000
On 5 Jan 98 at 11:41, Gurth wrote:

> Zixx said on 23:50/ 4 Jan 98...

> > For mana-spells, yes. But a powerbolt of fireball is resisted with armor. I
> > don't know why they wrote in the Grimoire that armor doesn't help, but a
> > fireball hardly comes from the inside of a target.
>
> Fireballs do come from inside the target, just like any other combat
> spells. If you want a fireball that attacks from the outside, you need to
> design a manipulation spell that does much the same as the current
> Fireball spell in SRII and the Grimoire. Combat spells always destroy
> their targets from the inside, and just the fact that Fireball sets fire
> to them doesn't mean it has to attack from the outside IMHO.

Sorry, maybe it's just my impression of fireballs that I got through the
time in other systems, but what you discribe sounds like a flamebomb to me,
or maybe a hellfire. To me a firebomb is as ball of fire flying from
the caster to the target and, if it's a good one, exploding when hitting.
Besides, "exploding from the inside" should have a bit more than S-damage.

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
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UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:41:13 +0100
Zixx said on 18:55/ 7 Jan 98...

> Sorry, maybe it's just my impression of fireballs that I got through the
> time in other systems, but what you discribe sounds like a flamebomb to me,
> or maybe a hellfire. To me a firebomb is as ball of fire flying from
> the caster to the target and, if it's a good one, exploding when hitting.

Could very well be, but not in SR they don't... Fireball is a Combat
spell, and they travel to the target through astral -- no big huge balls
of fire flying all over the place. Flame Bomb is a Manipulation spell, and
with that, such things _do_ happen.

> Besides, "exploding from the inside" should have a bit more than S-damage.

Why? Spells can be designed at any of the normal Damage Codes, regardless
of whether they attack from inside or from outside the target.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's just twenty thousand people standing in a field.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 24
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:13:19 +0000
On 17 Jan 98 at 12:41, Gurth wrote:

> Zixx said on 18:55/ 7 Jan 98...
>
> > Sorry, maybe it's just my impression of fireballs that I got through the
> > time in other systems, but what you discribe sounds like a flamebomb to me,
> > or maybe a hellfire. To me a firebomb is as ball of fire flying from
> > the caster to the target and, if it's a good one, exploding when hitting.
>
> Could very well be, but not in SR they don't... Fireball is a Combat
> spell, and they travel to the target through astral -- no big huge balls
> of fire flying all over the place.

Errmmmm....why is it called fireball than?
Anyway, I WANT the "great balls of fire", the burning rooms and all that.
It's more fun, dammit!

> Flame Bomb is a Manipulation spell, and
> with that, such things _do_ happen.
>
> > Besides, "exploding from the inside" should have a bit more than
S-damage.
>
> Why? Spells can be designed at any of the normal Damage Codes, regardless
> of whether they attack from inside or from outside the target.

Gurth, if I made you swallow a hand-genade, would you give it S-damage.
"Happily spreading your guts all over the place" isn't serious. It's deadly
(literaly).

Oh well, nitpicking....



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:56:18 +0100
Zixx said on 18:13/17 Jan 98...

> > Could very well be, but not in SR they don't... Fireball is a Combat
> > spell, and they travel to the target through astral -- no big huge balls
> > of fire flying all over the place.
>
> Errmmmm....why is it called fireball than?

Because that's the name at least one spell HAS to have in an RPG? ;)

> Anyway, I WANT the "great balls of fire", the burning rooms and all that.
> It's more fun, dammit!

Me too, so if I ever create a magician character with such a spell, I'll
take Flame Bomb.

> > Why? Spells can be designed at any of the normal Damage Codes, regardless
> > of whether they attack from inside or from outside the target.
>
> Gurth, if I made you swallow a hand-genade, would you give it S-damage.
> "Happily spreading your guts all over the place" isn't serious. It's deadly
> (literaly).

Ah, but there's an important thing there: a spell is no handgrenade.
Spells designed to do damage do so in a much more direct way than a
handgrenade -- the grenade detonates an explosive charge and uses air
pressure and/or metal pellets to damage the body. A spell attacks the body
directly and tells it "Now you break your arm".

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
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Message no. 26
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:03:25 +0000
On 17 Jan 98 at 20:56, Gurth wrote:

> Zixx said on 18:13/17 Jan 98...
>
> > > Could very well be, but not in SR they don't... Fireball is a Combat
> > > spell, and they travel to the target through astral -- no big huge balls
> > > of fire flying all over the place.
> >
> > Errmmmm....why is it called fireball than?
>
> Because that's the name at least one spell HAS to have in an RPG? ;)

Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I need
that!) ;)

> > Anyway, I WANT the "great balls of fire", the burning rooms and all
that.
> > It's more fun, dammit!
>
> Me too, so if I ever create a magician character with such a spell, I'll
> take Flame Bomb.

Time to switch names. Either that or I'll rewrite fireball to make it
FIREBALL.

> > > Why? Spells can be designed at any of the normal Damage Codes, regardless
> > > of whether they attack from inside or from outside the target.
> >
> > Gurth, if I made you swallow a hand-genade, would you give it S-damage.
> > "Happily spreading your guts all over the place" isn't serious. It's
deadly
> > (literaly).
>
> Ah, but there's an important thing there: a spell is no handgrenade.

Hmmmm....It explodes. That's all I have to know.

> Spells designed to do damage do so in a much more direct way than a
> handgrenade -- the grenade detonates an explosive charge and uses air
> pressure and/or metal pellets to damage the body. A spell attacks the body
> directly and tells it "Now you break your arm".

Fireball does damage useing an elemental fire effect (at least thats what
my Grimmy tells me) so I'd say it tell your body to explode in flames. The
difference between that and a hand grenade is rather philisophical.

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 27
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:21:36 +0100
At 18-Jan-98 wrote Zixx:

>

>Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I need
>that!) ;)

Then I can help you :):)

I have a first draw of necromantic rules on my disk, they are not from me
so I don`t think that I should post them here. Hmm, I ask my GM about this, he
had made them.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
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All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
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Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 28
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:35:14 +0000
And verily, did Zixx hastily scribble thusly...
|Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I need
|that!) ;)

That exists. Check out the Houdoan (sp?) in Awakenings????

I think...
--
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| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
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Message no. 29
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:57:16 PST
>Fireball does damage useing an elemental fire effect (at least thats
what my Grimmy tells me) so I'd say it tell your body to explode in
flames. The difference between that and a hand grenade is rather
philisophical.
>

Where do you get the impression that it causes any type of
EXPLOSION from? Thats the elemental effect of BLAST, an air effect.
Fireball does not have that effect. Fireball channels flame into the
aura of every thing in the area, correct. Flames may manifest and fire
effects may apear, perhaps starting mundane fires, correct. No
explosion in that. Its more like Pyryokinesis than a napalm bomb.
Combat spells with the elemental effects must do damage to
manifest thier effect. They can, though, do full damage while the
target might not be effecteted by the fire or whatever at all.
IMO, its more like wether you drop a barrell full of water (no
elemetal effect) or colored paint (elemtal effect= color) on the target.
Both cause identical damage- one might coincidentally make a big mess.

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Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:55:29 +0100
Zixx said on 18:03/18 Jan 98...

> Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I need
> that!) ;)

There's something that comes close to that in Awakenings, though as always
with FASA it's "for NPCs only". I'd like to have someone explain the
"why"s of this to me some day...

> > Ah, but there's an important thing there: a spell is no handgrenade.
>
> Hmmmm....It explodes. That's all I have to know.

That's where you go wrong: it doesn't explode -- it just _IS_ there,
suddenly. A grenade explodes: the blast travels outward at an extreme
velocity; a combat spell fills hits its entire area of effect at once, no
shockwaves, no blasts (except if you have one with that elemental effect),
etc.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Aan cultuur doe je maar thuis.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 31
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:34:42 +0000
On 18 Jan 98 at 19:21, Barbie wrote:

> >Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I
need
> >that!) ;)
>
> Then I can help you :):)
>
> I have a first draw of necromantic rules on my disk, they are not from me
> so I don`t think that I should post them here. Hmm, I ask my GM about this, he
> had made them.

I WANT THEM! (basically, 'cause I'm too busy with my damage-system and the
cyberpirates-program I'm coding ATM. So writing them myself would ruin my
social life even more).

Tell him I'm a REALLLLY nice guy and that he practically CANNOT refuse to
give them to me....

(damn! I want those rules!>

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 32
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:34:42 +0000
On 18 Jan 98 at 13:57, Mon goose wrote:

> >Fireball does damage useing an elemental fire effect (at least thats
> what my Grimmy tells me) so I'd say it tell your body to explode in
> flames. The difference between that and a hand grenade is rather
> philisophical.
> >
>
> Where do you get the impression that it causes any type of
> EXPLOSION from? Thats the elemental effect of BLAST, an air effect.
> Fireball does not have that effect. Fireball channels flame into the
> aura of every thing in the area, correct. Flames may manifest and fire
> effects may apear, perhaps starting mundane fires, correct. No
> explosion in that.

Ah, come on. What you describe is "ignite". But what the hell does that
have to do with a "fireball"? Nothing.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 33
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:34:42 +0000
On 18 Jan 98 at 19:35, Spike wrote:

> And verily, did Zixx hastily scribble thusly...
> |Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I need
> |that!) ;)
>
> That exists. Check out the Houdoan (sp?) in Awakenings????
>
> I think...

It's not actually what I want. Zombies might be fun, but the original spell
(called "Erheben der Toten" in the game it comes from) can really reanimate
dead people. It's kinda evil, cost-wise in that game (you pay about halfway
the cost between grade 6 and seven (beginnig with grade 0), which is a lot
in a system that only has 15 grades and one point of your magic attribute
per casting), but really impressive...



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 34
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: reworked damage-system
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:34:42 +0000
On 19 Jan 98 at 12:55, Gurth wrote:

> Zixx said on 18:03/18 Jan 98...
>
> > Good point. (though I'm still waiting for"Summon the dead" in SR...I
need
> > that!) ;)
>
> There's something that comes close to that in Awakenings, though as always
> with FASA it's "for NPCs only". I'd like to have someone explain the
> "why"s of this to me some day...

Reminds me...I've got to get my Awakenings back...

> > > Ah, but there's an important thing there: a spell is no handgrenade.
> >
> > Hmmmm....It explodes. That's all I have to know.
>
> That's where you go wrong: it doesn't explode -- it just _IS_ there,
> suddenly. A grenade explodes: the blast travels outward at an extreme
> velocity; a combat spell fills hits its entire area of effect at once, no
> shockwaves, no blasts (except if you have one with that elemental effect),
> etc.

Gurth, your ruining my day! What kind of fireball is this? It doesn't
explode, it doesn't fly throught the air, it doesn#t cause
mass-destruction...Hell, a molotov-cocktail is more fun than that (and it
has less drain)

<gettng *really* sad right now. Thinking about stopping to run SR....spells
suck....> ;)


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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