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Message no. 1
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:43:03 -0600
During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
the name escapes me). Trying to use the sedan chassis was most
unsatisfactory(too small) and using the limousine chassis was just too
large for my tastes.

My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least 20
CF of trunk space.

So below is my interpretation of what the stats for such a vehicle.

The driver/rigger sits off centerline to one side, the left here in UCAS or
on the right in Great Britain. The driving compartment is separated from
the passenger compartment by a armored wall.

In a normal configuration the taxi will seat 6 normal sized beings plus
their baggage/equipment and the driver/rigger

Note: I have removed the seating in the chassis table and put the CF back
into the design max entry. I have also added the load factors from the seat
removal back into the power plant tables max load entries.

Taxi Chassis Table Entry
----CF----
Hand Body Armor Start Max Autonav Pilot Sensor Seating
4/8 3 0 6 125 0 0 0 0
Entry Design Pts
3+1t 75

Electric Power Plant Table Entry
--Speed--- ---Accel-- ---Load--- -Economy-- Fuel Design
Start Max Start Max Start Max Sig Start Max Size Pts
75 100 4 9 40 910 5 0.5 2.5 150 10

Methane Power Plant Table Entry
--Speed--- ---Accel-- ---Load--- -Economy-- Fuel Design
Start Max Start Max Start Max Sig Start Max Size Pts
100 140 6 10 60 950 4 1 1.5 1000 20

Gasoline Power Plant Table Entry
--Speed--- ---Accel-- ---Load--- -Economy-- Fuel Design
Start Max Start Max Start Max Sig Start Max Size Pts
100 160 8 14 60 1100 2 8 14 60 25

Diesel Power Plant Table
--Speed--- ---Accel-- ---Load--- -Economy-- Fuel Design
Start Max Start Max Start Max Sig Start Max Size Pts
90 160 9 12 120 1700 2 7 12 50 45

More later on Nissan Checker Manhattan 2054 taxi for use in Shadowrun.



-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:10:25 -0700
Sam Thomas wrote:
/
/ During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
/ like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
/ the name escapes me). Trying to use the sedan chassis was most
/ unsatisfactory(too small) and using the limousine chassis was just too
/ large for my tastes.
/
/ My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
/ bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least 20
/ CF of trunk space.
/
/ So below is my interpretation of what the stats for such a vehicle.
/
/ The driver/rigger sits off centerline to one side, the left here in UCAS or
/ on the right in Great Britain. The driving compartment is separated from
/ the passenger compartment by a armored wall.
/
/ In a normal configuration the taxi will seat 6 normal sized beings plus
/ their baggage/equipment and the driver/rigger

Um, that's a Limo. Every taxi I've ever seen will comfortably seat 3
normal sized people plus the driver (driver and passenger in front,
two passengers in the rear). You can squeeze a third in the back.
Also, it's rare for the driver to allow a passenger in front with
him. So the maximum number of passengers is usually 3 in the back
seat.

-David
--
"Who dares nothing, need hope for nothing." - Johan von Schiller
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 3
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:38:47 -0600
At 07:10 AM 1/12/98 -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
>Sam Thomas wrote:
>/
>/ During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
>/ like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
>/ the name escapes me). Trying to use the sedan chassis was most
>/ unsatisfactory(too small) and using the limousine chassis was just too
>/ large for my tastes.
>/
>/ My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
>/ bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least 20
>/ CF of trunk space.
>/
>/ So below is my interpretation of what the stats for such a vehicle.
>/
>/ The driver/rigger sits off centerline to one side, the left here in UCAS or
>/ on the right in Great Britain. The driving compartment is separated from
>/ the passenger compartment by a armored wall.
>/
>/ In a normal configuration the taxi will seat 6 normal sized beings plus
>/ their baggage/equipment and the driver/rigger
>
>Um, that's a Limo. Every taxi I've ever seen will comfortably seat 3
>normal sized people plus the driver (driver and passenger in front,
>two passengers in the rear). You can squeeze a third in the back.
>Also, it's rare for the driver to allow a passenger in front with
>him. So the maximum number of passengers is usually 3 in the back
>seat.

Have ever ridden in Checker Manhattan?

Well the current day Checker Manhattan taxi will seat three people in the
rear and another two in front next to the driver. All seating very
comfortable. The space between the rear bench seat and the back of the
front bench seat is over three feet.

I had a classmate in high school that had a Checker Manhattan for his
vehicle, we used to really pack em in for the Drive Ins. Three couples
without using the trunk except for storage. One couple in the front bench,
another in the back bench, and finally the last couple in the floor space
between the front and rear seats. No complaints about being crowded either.
The trunk space had room for two large ice chests, six folding lawn chairs,
several blankets, a double sleeping bag, and an army field cot. This in
no way filled the trunk either.

Most current day taxis are sedans yes large sedans but still sedans.

The Checker was no where near being a limo, most limos that I have been in
have been at least 50 percent bigger than a Checker Manhattan, if not 150
percent bigger in some examples I have seen.

My intent was not create a baby limo but vehicle chassis capable of
carrying people and their baggage in non craped package.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:34:55 -0700
Sam Thomas wrote:
/
/ At 07:10 AM 1/12/98 -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
/ >Sam Thomas wrote:
/ >/
/ >/ In a normal configuration the taxi will seat 6 normal sized beings plus
/ >/ their baggage/equipment and the driver/rigger
/ >
/ >Um, that's a Limo. Every taxi I've ever seen will comfortably seat 3
/ >normal sized people plus the driver (driver and passenger in front,
/ >two passengers in the rear). You can squeeze a third in the back.
/ >Also, it's rare for the driver to allow a passenger in front with
/ >him. So the maximum number of passengers is usually 3 in the back
/ >seat.
/
/ Have ever ridden in Checker Manhattan?

No, I haven't. I would appear that I spoke out of turn :)

/ Most current day taxis are sedans yes large sedans but still sedans.
/
/ The Checker was no where near being a limo, most limos that I have been in
/ have been at least 50 percent bigger than a Checker Manhattan, if not 150
/ percent bigger in some examples I have seen.
/
/ My intent was not create a baby limo but vehicle chassis capable of
/ carrying people and their baggage in non craped package.

I'd like to have the option, when designing a vehicle, of increasing
or decreasing the base CF of a chassis. IMO, doing so would decrease
or increase the fuel economy of the vehicle. There'd be a limit on
just how much CF you could add or take away (maybe 10% of the listed
value?).

Of course I haven't gotten around to reading the vehicle design rules
in R2, so this may make no sense whatsoever :)

-David
--
"Who dares nothing, need hope for nothing." - Johann von Schiller
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:24:27 -0500
Sam Thomas[SMTP:sinbad@***.NET] wrote:
> During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
> like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
> the name escapes me). Trying to use the sedan chassis was most
> unsatisfactory(too small) and using the limousine chassis was just too
> large for my tastes.

Well, playing around with The Shop for a minute, I managed to
knock the Sedan chassis into shape. I even only needed the
Electric engine! Stats to follow...

> My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
> bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least 20
> CF of trunk space.

So, 3 bench seats (seating 6 people), and at least 20CF free.
No problem.

Sedan Chassis
Gasoline Engine (Taxis tend to have good accel)
Load Increase (+90 Load, up to +150 more, depending on how much
you expect to haul around in the trunk)
Increased Cargo Space (+24 CF, ends up leaving 24 CF free)
Bench Seat (cost 150 Load, 6 CF, leaving 0 free Load, 24 CF)

Markup: 1
DP Cost: 204
Cost (Y): 20,400
Handling: 4/8
Body/Armour: 2/0
Speed: 100
Accel: 8
Fuel: 60
Economy: 8

A real taxi would probably bump the speed and accel, of course,
and probably increase the load somewhat as well.

So? How about it? :-)

James Ojaste
plug: The Shop v1.1.3 is available at
http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~jojaste/SRII/
Message no. 6
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:03:16 -0600
At 10:24 AM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Sam Thomas[SMTP:sinbad@***.NET] wrote:
>> During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
>> like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
>> the name escapes me). Trying to use the sedan chassis was most
>> unsatisfactory(too small) and using the limousine chassis was just too
>> large for my tastes.
>
>Well, playing around with The Shop for a minute, I managed to
>knock the Sedan chassis into shape. I even only needed the
>Electric engine! Stats to follow...

I did not say it could not be done, just very hard.<G>

>> My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
>> bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least 20
>> CF of trunk space.
>
>So, 3 bench seats (seating 6 people), and at least 20CF free.
>No problem.

Hmmm one bench seat 1.5 persons so 3 bench seats 4.5 persons.

So your design only seats 4.5, the minimum I was looking for is 5 to 6
persons not counting the driver/rigger, preferably six passengers.

Question what did you do with the four bucket seats that the sedan comes with?

In my designs I have removed all seating and put back the CF's and load.
That way I can arrange my seating as I want it.

>Sedan Chassis
>Gasoline Engine (Taxis tend to have good accel)
>Load Increase (+90 Load, up to +150 more, depending on how much
> you expect to haul around in the trunk)
>Increased Cargo Space (+24 CF, ends up leaving 24 CF free)
>Bench Seat (cost 150 Load, 6 CF, leaving 0 free Load, 24 CF)

I found load increase to be too expensive, engine customization for load
increase is more cost effective from what I have found.

>Markup: 1
>DP Cost: 204
>Cost (Y): 20,400
>Handling: 4/8
>Body/Armour: 2/0
>Speed: 100
>Accel: 8
>Fuel: 60
>Economy: 8
>
>A real taxi would probably bump the speed and accel, of course,
>and probably increase the load somewhat as well.
>
>So? How about it? :-)

So far you have duplicated my efforts when I first started trying. ;-)

Another question I believe that you made a typo under the body, the sedan
has a body of three by R2.

Most taxi/cabs designs would be more desirable if they used electric
engines and gridlink power.

I agree most taxi/cabs should have an excellent accel, but speed should be
a little better than the standard design. The driver/rigger should be able
to compensate for the lack high speed performance with knowledge of the
city roads and traffic.


-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:19:59 -0500
Sam Thomas[SMTP:sinbad@***.NET] wrote:
> At 10:24 AM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Sam Thomas[SMTP:sinbad@***.NET] wrote:
> >> During my going through Rigger 2, I found it very hard to design a Taxi
> >> like the Checker Manhattan or the large Taxi(Cab) in Great Britain(sorry
[snip]
> >> My goal was vehicle that would seat the driver/rigger and have room for 2
> >> bench seats, 2 folding bench seats or 2 folding jump seats, and at least
20
> >> CF of trunk space.
> >
> >So, 3 bench seats (seating 6 people), and at least 20CF free.
> >No problem.
>
> Hmmm one bench seat 1.5 persons so 3 bench seats 4.5 persons.
>
> So your design only seats 4.5, the minimum I was looking for is 5 to 6
> persons not counting the driver/rigger, preferably six passengers.
>
> Question what did you do with the four bucket seats that the sedan comes
with?

Sorry, I don't have R2 with me... I guess I should probably
stick in some kind of caption indicating what b and B mean. :-P

Well, in addition to the 4 bucket seats, you can stick in 2 bench
seats (total load: 300, which is coincidentally the max load for
a gas engine in a sedan), adding up to 7 persons (unless you want
to squeeze in more). That's six passengers and a driver.

> In my designs I have removed all seating and put back the CF's and load.
> That way I can arrange my seating as I want it.

Well, I wasn't quite sure how to handle that smoothly and
elegantly in The Shop (seeing as how there are different prices
for installing a seat and replacing an existing one etc.), so I
just left that alone.

> I found load increase to be too expensive, engine customization for load
> increase is more cost effective from what I have found.

Well, the design was more proof-of-concept. After all, I don't
know what else you may want to do with it.

> >A real taxi would probably bump the speed and accel, of course,
> >and probably increase the load somewhat as well.
> >
> >So? How about it? :-)
>
> So far you have duplicated my efforts when I first started trying. ;-)
>
> Another question I believe that you made a typo under the body, the sedan
> has a body of three by R2.

Does it? I'll have to check that...

> Most taxi/cabs designs would be more desirable if they used electric
> engines and gridlink power.

Yeah, but then they just don't get the power. If there's
anything that a cabby will insist on (besides one of those
beaded chair covers), it's the hp to cut off anybody in sight.

> I agree most taxi/cabs should have an excellent accel, but speed should be
> a little better than the standard design. The driver/rigger should be able
> to compensate for the lack high speed performance with knowledge of the
> city roads and traffic.

Lack of high speed performance? I'd love to have a cabby drive
me around for five minutes without breaking (or bending) any
traffic laws. Especially speeding. :-)

James Ojaste
Message no. 8
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:54:51 -0600
At 03:19 PM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>snip<
>Well, in addition to the 4 bucket seats, you can stick in 2 bench
>seats (total load: 300, which is coincidentally the max load for
>a gas engine in a sedan), adding up to 7 persons (unless you want
>to squeeze in more). That's six passengers and a driver.

Well there is one more problem with using the sedan as a cab, it is only a
two door. Meaning that the passengers enter/leave via pushing the front
seats forward.

I have changed the Taxi chassis to have one front entry and two rear
entries to get around this issue.

>> In my designs I have removed all seating and put back the CF's and load.
>> That way I can arrange my seating as I want it.
>
>Well, I wasn't quite sure how to handle that smoothly and
>elegantly in The Shop (seeing as how there are different prices
>for installing a seat and replacing an existing one etc.), so I
>just left that alone.

I just used what was in the R2 and decrypered it.<G>

<snip>
>> Most taxi/cabs designs would be more desirable if they used electric
>> engines and gridlink power.
>
>Yeah, but then they just don't get the power. If there's
>anything that a cabby will insist on (besides one of those
>beaded chair covers), it's the hp to cut off anybody in sight.
>
>> I agree most taxi/cabs should have an excellent accel, but speed should be
>> a little better than the standard design. The driver/rigger should be able
>> to compensate for the lack high speed performance with knowledge of the
>> city roads and traffic.
>
>Lack of high speed performance? I'd love to have a cabby drive
>me around for five minutes without breaking (or bending) any
>traffic laws. Especially speeding. :-)

Ok James I will posting a taxi that uses electric engine, has good Accel
and Speed.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:41:53 EST
Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET> wrote:

> Question what did you do with the four bucket seats that the sedan comes
with?
>
> In my designs I have removed all seating and put back the CF's and load.
> That way I can arrange my seating as I want it.

Yes, you can certainly do that. Matter of fact, if you remove ALL the seats
from a vehicle and toss in a remote control interface, you've got yourself a
VERY large drone.

> Well there is one more problem with using the sedan as a cab, it is only a
> two door. Meaning that the passengers enter/leave via pushing the front
> seats forward.

There is no design point cost for adding, removing, or altering doors and
other entry points, so long as it is reasonable (2-door to 4-door, for
example). If the design is REALLY unusual (say, eight regular doors and two
sunroofs on a sedan), then I'd suggest imposing the Unusual Features Mark-up
Modifier.

Hope this helps,

-- Jon
Message no. 10
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:39:56 PST
Does anyone have any Ideas rules for dual powered vehicles like the
drone in R2?

I want to design a dual powered walker with electric/gas so it can walk
around outside using gas and inside using electric.

Thanks

Matthew Waddilove

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Message no. 11
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions\
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:46:30 -0600
At 01:41 PM 1/20/98 EST, Jon wrote:
>snip<
>> Well there is one more problem with using the sedan as a cab, it is only a
>> two door. Meaning that the passengers enter/leave via pushing the front
>> seats forward.
>
>There is no design point cost for adding, removing, or altering doors and
>other entry points, so long as it is reasonable (2-door to 4-door, for
>example). If the design is REALLY unusual (say, eight regular doors and two
>sunroofs on a sedan), then I'd suggest imposing the Unusual Features Mark-up
>Modifier.

Was this in the R2, and did I miss it? Damn it I need to quit looking at
the pictures.<G>

Thanks Jon.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Additions
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:12:37 -0700
At 01:39 21/01/98 PST, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any Ideas rules for dual powered vehicles like the
>drone in R2?
>
>I want to design a dual powered walker with electric/gas so it can walk
>around outside using gas and inside using electric.

I've been working on rules for this, and they should be in the next issue
of TSS, which is due out.. when it's finished: )

-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun

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