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Message no. 1
From: Da Minotaur <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Rigger Question(s)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 17:59:27 EST
Simply One Folks:

Has Anyone Designed Any Drones that are Vector Thrust Vehicles?

I have a Rigger in the Making and am working on 'm. Right now
he has:
VCR(2)
Datajack
Orientation Computer
SPU (Math)
Encephalon (4)
Mnemonic Enhancer (5)


I have the SPU for a reason- I was hoping between it, and the
orientation computer, I could get the rigger to "fly blind"
by calculating velocity, distance,etc and knowing how long til
he executes what manuevers....

Anyone have any suggestions? This is my first attempt at
designing a rigger and I am looking to extend him beyond the
run of the mill rigger....

Minotaur
Message no. 2
From: R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@*****.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigger Question(s)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 03:34:19 CET
Run of the mill rigger?

Sheesh, FASA won't even tell us what a run-of-the-mill rigger can do, let
alone what an exceptional one can do.

The RBB is a waste of trees, in my not-quite-so-very-humble-fricken-opinion.

]> I love my country + Robert Hayden <]
]> But I fear my government. + <]
]> Blind faith in your leaders, or in + rahayden@*****.weeg.uiowa.edu <]
]> anything, will get you killed. + aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]
Message no. 3
From: "Fikouras Jani (U. of Bremen)" <jfiko@********.PHYSICS.AUTH.GR>
Subject: Rigger questions
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 21:20:25 +0300
I haven't played Shadowrun for quite some time (a group playing Shadowrun
is hard to find in these places) and I was very happy when I found these kids
near my place that played shadowrun. Yesterday was our first session of
the Harlequin's return and I was very surprised when my GM told me that my
rigger was all wrong and I had to change everything according to his
interpretation of the rules. Anyway I haven't got anything against GMasters
understanding the rules their own way, but I am tired of having to adjust
my rigger characters everytime I come across a GM with a different way of
understanding what's in the Riggers Black Book.
So, I' ve decided to post this list of the most frequent problems/questions
I have encountered.

I would appreciate any answers to my posting ....

--Nick


1) What is the initiative of drones that are being driven by their
auto pilot?

2) How do twin weapons (i.e. weapons mounted on twin firmpoints) fire ?
Does the rigger need to fire both ? Does the target resist two separate
attacks or just one bolstered one? Does the second weapon +2 modifier apply
when targeting optically ?

3) The RBB p122 "Remote Turrets" sez that "A remote turret may be operated
by a separate gunner or by the rigger. In the latter case, however, each counts as
one drone against his control limit."
What is this control limit ? Does this mean that the rigger has to spend
one action per turn for the turret in order to keep it operable ? If yes
then what is the logic behind this, after all gunners using the turret
only have to spend one action to target and shoot.

4) Are fixed arc weapons mounted on firmpoints/hardpoints conlealable/
supposed to be concealed anyway ? If yes what is their concealability
rating ?

5) What is the result of recoil on the handling of the vehicle ? Take
a bike for example that mounts a Panther Cannon, what does firing the
cannon do to its handling ?

6) What are the penalties for going without tires ? When you blow the
tires of another vehicle away with a called shot, the other vehicle is
automatically subject to a handling test (maybe even a crash test), but
what happens next ?

7) Do riggers use full cybernetic control when rigging (As most
of the novels suggest) ? If yes how do rigged bikes work ?

8) Which vehicles have VCR equipment installed and which dont. We
assume that none have, but what about drones ? Drones cant only be
driven remotely and most of them dont have enough space (CF) to install
the VCR gear. Does that mean that drones are not operable, or does
it mean that all vehicles have the nececery equipment (thus making it
not worthy to mention)?

9) The RBB makes it clear that an autopilot with a rating less than 3
is incapable of driving a vehicle. So does that mean that all drones
(as drones have autopilots of 1 or 2) canot operate on their own despite
the fact that the RBB and SRII expressly say that a rigger can order them
around ?

10) Can a rigger that utilises full cybernetic control fire his weapons
optically ? Or is opticall targeting just restricted to non-cybernetic
drivers.

11) How does swapping engines work ? I mean the table tells you
how much an engines that manages a particular speed for a particular
kind of fuel/type of car/body rating cost, but it doesnt tell you
how much it would improve your speed if you were to install a bigger
engine in a smaller car.

--

"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"
the Crow.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 22:26:02 +0200
> --Nick

New name/account, Jani? :)

>1) What is the initiative of drones that are being driven by their
>auto pilot?

I couldn't find it in the RBB or Black Book. Maybe Autopilot Rating + 1D6?

>2) How do twin weapons (i.e. weapons mounted on twin firmpoints) fire ?

By the rigger wanting them to fire.

>Does the rigger need to fire both ?

Yes.

> Does the target resist two separate attacks or just one bolstered one?

Two separate attacks.

>Does the second weapon +2 modifier apply when targeting optically ?

Unless both fire against the same target, I'd say it does.

>3) The RBB p122 "Remote Turrets" sez that "A remote turret may be
operated
by a separate gunner or by the rigger. In the latter case, however, each
counts as
>one drone against his control limit."
> What is this control limit ?

Probably (I couldn't find it again) a number of drones equal to the rigger's
Intelligence.

>Does this mean that the rigger has to spend
>one action per turn for the turret in order to keep it operable ?

Yes, I'd say.

>If yes
>then what is the logic behind this, after all gunners using the turret
>only have to spend one action to target and shoot.

The turret doesn't have an autopilot of its own, so it doesn't follow
commands like a drone would. (Hey, maybe build one into a turret and it will...)

>4) Are fixed arc weapons mounted on firmpoints/hardpoints conlealable/
>supposed to be concealed anyway ?

I take it that they are, at least on civilian vehicles and within reason. No
way to conceal that Ares Kinetic Rail Gun you fixed onto your Americar :)

>If yes what is their concealability rating ?

I don't know. Maybe the GM should assign it, based on the player's
explanations of how it is hidden. Or maybe you can say it's the base Conceal
of the weapon.

>5) What is the result of recoil on the handling of the vehicle ?

That's explained on page 122 of the RBB: make a Handling Test when you fire
the weapon, adding the recoil to the Handling. If you fail, you crash. If
the weapon fires to the side, add twice the recoil to the Handling.

>6) What are the penalties for going without tires ? When you blow the
>tires of another vehicle away with a called shot, the other vehicle is
>automatically subject to a handling test (maybe even a crash test), but
>what happens next ?

I think I cut 25% off the vehicle's speed per tire destroyed. I don't really
know, the only time this came into play in "my" game was when a bunch of
Chicago thugs tried to steal the PCs' car. They shot off its tires and it
conveniently crashed into a light post :)

>8) Which vehicles have VCR equipment installed and which dont. We
>assume that none have, but what about drones ? Drones cant only be
>driven remotely and most of them dont have enough space (CF) to install
>the VCR gear. Does that mean that drones are not operable, or does
>it mean that all vehicles have the nececery equipment (thus making it
>not worthy to mention)?

I rule that all drones have remote-control gear already installed (though
the text doesn't mention whether it is or not). I'd say you have to add VCRs
separately.

>9) The RBB makes it clear that an autopilot with a rating less than 3
>is incapable of driving a vehicle. So does that mean that all drones
>(as drones have autopilots of 1 or 2) canot operate on their own despite
>the fact that the RBB and SRII expressly say that a rigger can order them
>around ?

I never looked at it that way, but it sure looks like it. Internal
consistency is somewhat lacking in the vehicle department, I think.
(Stephanos, are you reading this? If you are I think you know what I'm
getting at :)

>10) Can a rigger that utilises full cybernetic control fire his weapons
>optically ? Or is opticall targeting just restricted to non-cybernetic
>drivers.

GM's call, IMHO.

>11) How does swapping engines work ? I mean the table tells you
>how much an engines that manages a particular speed for a particular
>kind of fuel/type of car/body rating cost, but it doesnt tell you
>how much it would improve your speed if you were to install a bigger
>engine in a smaller car.

That table is worth shit, IMnsHO. You can't even build most of the vehicles
using the engines on the table... Take a Saab Dynamit -- it's got a Body of
2 and an IC engine. From that table on page 109 it follows that the thing
should have a speed of 35/105, modified to 30/90 for its armor, and to
40/120 for the maximum turbocharging possible. Add a blueprinted engine and
that sort of stuff and you still won't reach 80/250 no matter what you try...
Maybe a solution would be something like the BattleTech engine business --
if you've got an 80-ton 'Mech that you want to give 3 Movement Points, you
need a rating 240 engine. Maybe it would work in SR as well -- give engines
ratings, and divide the rating by the Body to find the speed. It might be
worth thinking about...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Let it all out
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Version 3.1:
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Message no. 5
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 15:03:17 -0700
> --Nick

New name/account, Jani? :)

>>1) What is the initiative of drones that are being driven by their
>>auto pilot?
>I couldn't find it in the RBB or Black Book. Maybe Autopilot Rating
>+ 1D6?

Actually I believe it's 10+1d6

<snip (#2 I agreed with gurth)>

>>3) The RBB p122 "Remote Turrets" sez that "A remote turret may be
>>operated by a separate gunner or by the rigger. In the latter
case, >>however, each counts as one drone against his control
limit."
>>What is this control limit ?
>Probably (I couldn't find it again) a number of drones equal to
>the rigger's Intelligence.

His Int is the number of things he can have going at one time.
His Control limit is the number of ports on his Remote Control Deck.

>>Does this mean that the rigger has to spend
>>one action per turn for the turret in order to keep it operable ?
>Yes, I'd say.
*Agreed.

>>If yes
>>then what is the logic behind this, after all gunners using the
>>turret only have to spend one action to target and shoot.
>The turret doesn't have an autopilot of its own, so it doesn't
>follow commands like a drone would. (Hey, maybe build one into
>a turret and it will...)

Which is why it's better to have someone else running the guns.
(someone with a datajack, and a decent gunnery.)
*besides how many samurai's do you know that can hide an Autocannon
and a Missle launcher in their jackets.

>>4) Are fixed arc weapons mounted on firmpoints/hardpoints
>>conlealable/supposed to be concealed anyway ?
>I take it that they are, at least on civilian vehicles and
>within reason. No way to conceal that Ares Kinetic Rail Gun
>you fixed onto your Americar :)

*suggestion*
I haven't seen anything in this area, I would have to say
that it's first of all, up to you if you want them hidden.
Then you must us a cf = to the weapon points (listed in the
turret section) (i.e. 1 = SMG,LMG,2 = HMG,Rocket,3=missle,4=
autocannon) *once you do this* the perception target# is
the weapon conceal + unmodified body of the vehicle.
*maybe even +20% of mount per. xtra conceal rating*

>>If yes what is their concealability rating ?
>I don't know. Maybe the GM should assign it, based on the player's
>explanations of how it is hidden. Or maybe you can say it's the
>base Conceal of the weapon.
*see suggestion

<snip (again agreed. for 5,6,7)>

>>8) Which vehicles have VCR equipment installed and which dont. We
>>assume that none have, but what about drones ? Drones cant only
>>be driven remotely and most of them dont have enough space (CF)
>>to install the VCR gear. Does that mean that drones are not
>>operable, or does it mean that all vehicles have the nececery
>>equipment (thus making it not worthy to mention)?
>I rule that all drones have remote-control gear already installed
>(though the text doesn't mention whether it is or not). I'd say
>you have to add VCRs separately.

Unless a vehicle states it has a VCR it doesn't.
Drones are a differnt story - I would also rule that drones
have remote gear.

>>9) The RBB makes it clear that an autopilot with a rating less
>>than 3 is incapable of driving a vehicle. So does that mean that
>>all drones (as drones have autopilots of 1 or 2) canot operate on
>>their own despite the fact that the RBB and SRII expressly say
>>that a rigger can order them around ?
>I never looked at it that way, but it sure looks like it. Internal
>consistency is somewhat lacking in the vehicle department, I think.
>(Stephanos, are you reading this? If you are I think you know what
>I'm getting at :)

ERRRrrrrttt. The autopilot of a vehicle and drone behavior are 2
different things. You can tell a car with an autopilot or 3 or more
to drive around the block for 5 minutes and stop in front of the
building, wait for 5 minutes then go home. The commands a rigger
gives a drone is go straight 40 feet turn right 90deg. go straight
for 20 feet stop wait for elevator door to open enter and shoot
the next person to enter the elevator.
By making drones with autopilots of less than 3 their saying a
drone can't travel down a street in heavy vehicle traffic.
(without rigger help)

>>10) Can a rigger that utilises full cybernetic control fire his
>>weapons optically ? Or is opticall targeting just restricted to
>>non-cybernetic drivers.
>GM's call, IMHO.

I would guess so but why that's what sensors are for.
If your jacked in you target from your cars/drones sensors.
Although I would rule that you could - you would just get
no sensor bonus.

<snip section on Engines>
The RBB is too vague. The small list of engines listed in the back
don't compare to the vast variety of engines on the listed vehicles.
(no real easy workaround)

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 6
From: "Patrick D. Little" <pdl@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 17:15:18 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------

The turret doesn't have an autopilot of its own, so it doesn't follow
commands like a drone would. (Hey, maybe build one into a turret and it will...)


--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl -

----------End of Original Message----------
Wouldn't this be covered in the expert systems article in Shadowlore? By
using an gunnery skillsoft as a component, that would achieve the desired affect wouldn't
it?

-------------------------------------
Name: patrick
E-mail: pdl@******.net
Date: 09/08/95
Time: 17:19:57

This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:07:28 -0400
On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> That table is worth shit, IMnsHO. You can't even build most of the vehicles
> using the engines on the table... Take a Saab Dynamit -- it's got a Body of

[...]

Yeah, the whole thing is screwy. What's even worse is that at GenCon a
couple years ago, the DLOH said that all of the vehicles listed in the
beginning of the book are still 'stock' models, no matter what the stats.
This means you can still stick in any of the options listed in the
modifications section. You can build (by the rules) a Blitzen that'll
go about Mach .8 :) Hopefully, when Rigger Revised comes out, it
will clear up some of this mess.

--Craig
Message no. 8
From: "Fikouras Jani (U. of Bremen)" <jfiko@********.PHYSICS.AUTH.GR>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 12:20:25 +0300
>
> > --Nick
>
> New name/account, Jani? :)
>

No, that's my name, I am Janis brother :)

> >Does this mean that the rigger has to spend
> >one action per turn for the turret in order to keep it operable ?
>
> Yes, I'd say.

Than, what about a riggers with a VCR #2 and reaction of 4, giving him an
initiative of 3d6+8. Assuming that the average roll is a 4, he will have an
average initiative of 20, just barelly enough to move both his vehicle and the
remote turret.

> >4) Are fixed arc weapons mounted on firmpoints/hardpoints conlealable/
> >supposed to be concealed anyway ?
> >If yes what is their concealability rating ?
>
> I don't know. Maybe the GM should assign it, based on the player's
> explanations of how it is hidden. Or maybe you can say it's the base Conceal
> of the weapon.

Yes, but most of these weapons, used on vehicles, haven't got any.

> >8) Which vehicles have VCR equipment installed and which dont. We
> >assume that none have, but what about drones ? Drones cant only be
> >driven remotely and most of them dont have enough space (CF) to install
> >the VCR gear. Does that mean that drones are not operable, or does
> >it mean that all vehicles have the nececery equipment (thus making it
> >not worthy to mention)?
>
> I rule that all drones have remote-control gear already installed (though
> the text doesn't mention whether it is or not). I'd say you have to add VCRs
> separately.

In the prime runners excists a rigger mechanic that owns a Nissan Rotodrone
and in page 32 sez that the drone has been modified to have a Remote Gear,
how can that be ? I can't imagine drones without a remote control gear. Are
drones designed just to follow simple orders ? And if that's true how can a
rigger install a remote control gear, since most of the drones haven't got
enough CF space.

> >11) How does swapping engines work ?

> That table is worth shit, IMnsHO. You can't even build most of the vehicles
> using the engines on the table... Take a Saab Dynamit -- it's got a Body of
> 2 and an IC engine. From that table on page 109 it follows that the thing
> should have a speed of 35/105, modified to 30/90 for its armor, and to
> 40/120 for the maximum turbocharging possible. Add a blueprinted engine and
> that sort of stuff and you still won't reach 80/250 no matter what you try...
> Maybe a solution would be something like the BattleTech engine business --
> if you've got an 80-ton 'Mech that you want to give 3 Movement Points, you
> need a rating 240 engine. Maybe it would work in SR as well -- give engines
> ratings, and divide the rating by the Body to find the speed. It might be
> worth thinking about...
>
I think the best way to do it is to devide the new engines body rating by the
vehicles original body rating and multiply the result with the new engines
speed.

--
"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"
The Crow.
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 11:26:34 +0200
>Yeah, the whole thing is screwy. What's even worse is that at GenCon a
>couple years ago, the DLOH said that all of the vehicles listed in the
>beginning of the book are still 'stock' models, no matter what the stats.

I am starting to think that FASA rushed the RBB job -- once something was
written down they must have moved on to the next thing without looking back.
That's the only reason I can think of for the lack of consistency...

>This means you can still stick in any of the options listed in the
>modifications section. You can build (by the rules) a Blitzen that'll
>go about Mach .8 :) Hopefully, when Rigger Revised comes out, it
>will clear up some of this mess.

I hope so. In the meantime I'm strongly thinking of making that engine
ratings table I was talking about...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He has you all fooled
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:13:44 +0200
>> > --Nick
>>
>> New name/account, Jani? :)
>
> No, that's my name, I am Janis brother :)

Ah. Say hi to Jani from me :)

> Than, what about a riggers with a VCR #2 and reaction of 4, giving him an
>initiative of 3d6+8. Assuming that the average roll is a 4, he will have an
>average initiative of 20, just barelly enough to move both his vehicle and the
>remote turret.

The rigger will likely roll 11 or higher for initiative, so he gets 2
actions. One to control the vehicle and one to control the turret. If he
gets over 20, it's control the vehicle once and the turret twice. I don't
really see any problems with this...

>> I don't know. Maybe the GM should assign it, based on the player's
>> explanations of how it is hidden. Or maybe you can say it's the base Conceal
>> of the weapon.
>
> Yes, but most of these weapons, used on vehicles, haven't got any.

That would be the problem you would face. I do like the idea of spending CF
to make the weapon concealable, as proposed by <insert the name I forgot
here>, which might be a good solution to this...

>> I rule that all drones have remote-control gear already installed (though
>> the text doesn't mention whether it is or not). I'd say you have to add VCRs
>> separately.
>
> In the prime runners excists a rigger mechanic that owns a Nissan Rotodrone
>and in page 32 sez that the drone has been modified to have a Remote Gear,
>how can that be ? I can't imagine drones without a remote control gear. Are
>drones designed just to follow simple orders ? And if that's true how can a
>rigger install a remote control gear, since most of the drones haven't got
>enough CF space.

Well, I don't own Prime Runners (I don't think I ever will unless someone
buys it for me :) but I still say that drones have RCG installed. They make
very little sense otherwise, IMHO.

>> Maybe a solution would be something like the BattleTech engine business --
>> if you've got an 80-ton 'Mech that you want to give 3 Movement Points, you
>> need a rating 240 engine. Maybe it would work in SR as well -- give engines
>> ratings, and divide the rating by the Body to find the speed. It might be
>> worth thinking about...
>>
> I think the best way to do it is to devide the new engines body rating by the
>vehicles original body rating and multiply the result with the new engines
>speed.

After a bit more thinking about this, I think I'll go ahead with this engine
ratings table, and post it here to see what the rest of you think. I am
already playing with some ideas for turbochargers and things...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He has you all fooled
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
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Message no. 11
From: "Fikouras Jani (U. of Bremen)" <jfiko@********.PHYSICS.AUTH.GR>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:36:39 +0300
> ERRRrrrrttt. The autopilot of a vehicle and drone behavior are 2
> different things. You can tell a car with an autopilot or 3 or more
> to drive around the block for 5 minutes and stop in front of the
> building, wait for 5 minutes then go home. The commands a rigger
> gives a drone is go straight 40 feet turn right 90deg. go straight
> for 20 feet stop wait for elevator door to open enter and shoot
> the next person to enter the elevator.
> By making drones with autopilots of less than 3 their saying a
> drone can't travel down a street in heavy vehicle traffic.
> (without rigger help)

In page 101 of the RBB sez "If a drone or RPV has an autopilot, the rigger
can issue it one sentence commands such as "Circle this area," " Shoot
anyone
that that comes through this door," "Follow this car," and the like. The
more
specific and detailed the command, the greater the chance the autopilot will
become confused." And I find it highly unlike that a rating one autopilot is
capable of such a performance

--Nick

"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"
the Crow.
Message no. 12
From: "Fikouras Jani (U. of Bremen)" <jfiko@********.PHYSICS.AUTH.GR>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:43:11 +0300
> > Than, what about a riggers with a VCR #2 and reaction of 4, giving him an
> >initiative of 3d6+8. Assuming that the average roll is a 4, he will have an
> >average initiative of 20, just barelly enough to move both his vehicle and the
> >remote turret.
>
> The rigger will likely roll 11 or higher for initiative, so he gets 2
> actions. One to control the vehicle and one to control the turret. If he
> gets over 20, it's control the vehicle once and the turret twice. I don't
> really see any problems with this...

I mean that since riggers operate remote turrets like drones, they have to
spend one complex action to move them, just to retain control of them. Rigger
characters with initiaves of 20 and lower will never have the chance even
to shoot with their turret. They have to spend one action to operate the
vehicle they are in and one action to operate the turret.

-- Nick

"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"
the Crow.
Message no. 13
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 11:04:00 -0700
>7) Do riggers use full cybernetic control when rigging (As most
>of the novels suggest) ? If yes how do rigged bikes work ?

In my upcoming SR novel, DEAD AIR, the bike riggers in the Combat Biker
scenes do NOT lose their own senses. How could they? They have to control
their bikes, fight the opponent, etc... There are sensors in the bike, but
those are in addition to their own.

It is my understanding that some vehicles, especially Thunderbirds and
fighter jets and the like, have so many inputs from electronic sensors that
the rigger must devote his entire sensorium to the task of rigging.

Hope this helps,

--Jak
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jak Koke jkoke@****.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:41:10 +0200
> I mean that since riggers operate remote turrets like drones, they have to
>spend one complex action to move them, just to retain control of them. Rigger
>characters with initiaves of 20 and lower will never have the chance even
>to shoot with their turret. They have to spend one action to operate the
>vehicle they are in and one action to operate the turret.

A drone will continue doing what it was doing until issued another command
(or was that only if they had an autopilot?) If you want to do it the way
you just described, how about saying that firing the turret guns _is_
controlling the turret?

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Message no. 15
From: Peter Bailey <pbailey@*****.IPSWICHCITY.QLD.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigger questions
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:06:39 +0200
Hi Fikouras,

[snip]
> my rigger was all wrong and I had to change everything according to his
> interpretation of the rules. Anyway I haven't got anything against GMasters
> understanding the rules their own way, but I am tired of having to adjust
> my rigger characters everytime I come across a GM with a different way of
> understanding what's in the Riggers Black Book.

Unfortunately this is going to be a fact of life while the rules are the
slightest bit ambigous. Heck it happens whenever the GM decides to run
"his" game a little different in any case.

> 1) What is the initiative of drones that are being driven by their
> auto pilot?

I do AP init by (AP rating + 1D6). It's a dog brain. It has enough trouble
keeping the drone in the air or not getting stood on. You could modify the
AP to include sentry gun brains however and that'd be a whole new ball o'
wax.

> 2) How do twin weapons (i.e. weapons mounted on twin firmpoints) fire ?
> Does the rigger need to fire both ? Does the target resist two separate
> attacks or just one bolstered one? Does the second weapon +2 modifier apply
> when targeting optically ?

2a. In my game, a twin mount firmpoint has but one trigger. Therefore
only the rigger or the AP can fire the weapons on the firmpoint. Both
fire at the same time, with both of their recoil affecting target numbers.
If you are talking about two single place firmpoints, the rigger fires one,
the dog brain the other.
2b. Twin firmpoint: Treat rounds on target as a full auto attack. Damage as
appropriate to number of rounds impacting the target. Burst fire treat as
super machine gun burst fire.
Two single firmpoints: Two seperate attacks.
2c. Yes. If the rigger is firing both weapons.

> 3) The RBB p122 "Remote Turrets" sez that "A remote turret may be
operated
> by a separate gunner or by the rigger. In the latter case, however, each
> counts as one drone against his control limit."
> What is this control limit ? Does this mean that the rigger has to spend
> one action per turn for the turret in order to keep it operable ? If yes
> then what is the logic behind this, after all gunners using the turret
> only have to spend one action to target and shoot.

I'm not sure but I think a rigger is limited by his intelligence as to the
number of drones he can control at once. Comments anyone?

As for why the turret logic, You have to look for a target first don't you?
That takes time and sensors. Voila instant action/turn.

> 4) Are fixed arc weapons mounted on firmpoints/hardpoints conlealable/
> supposed to be concealed anyway ? If yes what is their concealability
> rating ?

Depends on where they are mounted and how they are covered. You would have
to sort this one out with your GM.

> 5) What is the result of recoil on the handling of the vehicle ? Take
> a bike for example that mounts a Panther Cannon, what does firing the
> cannon do to its handling ?

I do a handling check for my rigger whenever I fire a heavy weapon from
something that is light, and where recoil could be a problem. Twin MMG's on
a rotor drone in tight terrain for example. "OOOh, geez, that wall just
impacted on your rotors! Shame about that recoil!" Essentialy, role play,
not roll play.

> 6) What are the penalties for going without tires ? When you blow the
> tires of another vehicle away with a called shot, the other vehicle is
> automatically subject to a handling test (maybe even a crash test), but
> what happens next ?

I personally would add about 5 to the handling, plus the terrain modifier.

> 7) Do riggers use full cybernetic control when rigging (As most
> of the novels suggest) ? If yes how do rigged bikes work ?

7a. In my game yes. A rigger can mantain some sense of his meat self at a
+2 penalty to all target numbers. That +2 came from the part about deckers
doing the same thing.
7b. Strap yourself to the seat sunshine. Or the meat and the machine soon
part company.

> 8) Which vehicles have VCR equipment installed and which dont. We
> assume that none have, but what about drones ? Drones cant only be
> driven remotely and most of them dont have enough space (CF) to install
> the VCR gear. Does that mean that drones are not operable, or does
> it mean that all vehicles have the nececery equipment (thus making it
> not worthy to mention)?

I assume all "drones" or vehicles designed not to have a pilot carried by
the vehicle in some manner have rigged remote control gear fitted. This may
seem generous to some GM's but it does simplify things.

> 9) The RBB makes it clear that an autopilot with a rating less than 3
> is incapable of driving a vehicle. So does that mean that all drones
> (as drones have autopilots of 1 or 2) canot operate on their own despite
> the fact that the RBB and SRII expressly say that a rigger can order them
> around ?

Exqueese me? Rating 1 autopilots may not pilot the vehicle. Rating 2 has
trouble with rough terrain.
They don't have the decision making capabilities of the higher rated
systems. They don't have the intellect to decide to zig or zag so they
stop and ask the pilot.

> 10) Can a rigger that utilises full cybernetic control fire his weapons
> optically ? Or is opticall targeting just restricted to non-cybernetic
> drivers.

I would allow optical targeting. At +2 target number. Or stop rigging while
you are targeting.

> 11) How does swapping engines work ? I mean the table tells you
> how much an engines that manages a particular speed for a particular
> kind of fuel/type of car/body rating cost, but it doesnt tell you
> how much it would improve your speed if you were to install a bigger
> engine in a smaller car.

I just install the same body rated engine but of a higher capability into
the vehicle. Or improve the body to the size of engine you want and work
from there.

Hope this helps. My favorite character is called "Remote". She's a
paraplegic rigger/decker with a few screws loose. :-)

Further Reading

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