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Message no. 1
From: secabeen@*****.com (Ted Cabeen)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:49:21 -0800
How much vehicle customization do you all allow rigger characters at
creation time? Do you have different standards for drones and large
vehicles?

Is it just any modification where the parts have an availability below 8?
If so, are there any labor costs, or do you assume that the character has
done the mods themselves? I'm presuming they have the requisite B/R skills
and kits or shops. (What about facilities? Do you allow them at character
creation even though they have a availability of 12?)

What about modifications like engine customization that may cause permanent
stress?

I'm thinking about allowing mods with an availibilty of 8 and giving free
labor, but I might charge for lifestyle during the work time. Thoughts?

--
Ted Cabeen http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen ted@*******.net
Check Website or Keyserver for PGP/GPG Key BA0349D2 secabeen@*****.com
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon secabeen@******.org
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot cabeen@******.com
Message no. 2
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:16 +0100
According to Ted Cabeen, on Thursday 20 November 2003 04:49 the word on the
street was...

> How much vehicle customization do you all allow rigger characters at
> creation time?

Anything they can pay for and that doesn't break the normal Availability
and rating limits. If that means buying a second-hand Americar for 7,000
nuyen and putting half a million worth of mods into it, I don't care :)

> Do you have different standards for drones and large vehicles?

No.

> If so, are there any labor costs, or do you assume that the character
> has done the mods themselves?

I don't bother with labor costs, rolls against TNs to see if the stuff can
be installed by the character, how long it takes, or any of that. Pay the
money and you have the customization. However, I've always charged players
the customization price, not the building point increase.

> What about modifications like engine customization that may cause
> permanent stress?

The vehicle gets the appropriate stress in that case, if the description
says the vehicle gets stress right after installation. (Otherwise, it only
starts accumulating stress in actual use.)

> I'm thinking about allowing mods with an availibilty of 8 and giving
> free labor, but I might charge for lifestyle during the work time.
> Thoughts?

This can work as a way to limit things a bit; I did it this way once with a
decker making his own cyberdeck during character creation. It turned out
he ended up spending three years or so building the deck, which cost him
about 35,000 nuyen in lifestyle costs...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:07:45 -0600
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:16 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

> According to Ted Cabeen, on Thursday 20 November 2003 04:49 the word on
> the
> street was...
>
>> I'm thinking about allowing mods with an availibilty of 8
>> but I might charge for lifestyle during the work time.
>
> This can work as a way to limit things a bit; I did it this way once
> with a
> decker making his own cyberdeck during character creation. It turned out
> he ended up spending three years or so building the deck, which cost him
> about 35,000 nuyen in lifestyle costs...

Under normal cyberdeck costs, 35K is chump change. :)
Of course, don't you (Gurth) divide all the cyberdeck costs by like 50 or
something? That might make the 35K hurt more.

--
Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
Message no. 4
From: PGROSSE@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:12 -0500
> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:16 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>
> > According to Ted Cabeen, on Thursday 20 November 2003 04:49
> the word
> > on the street was...
> >
> >> I'm thinking about allowing mods with an availibilty of 8
> but I might
> >> charge for lifestyle during the work time.
> >
> > This can work as a way to limit things a bit; I did it this
> way once
> > with a decker making his own cyberdeck during character
> creation. It
> > turned out he ended up spending three years or so building
> the deck,
> > which cost him about 35,000 nuyen in lifestyle costs...
>
> Under normal cyberdeck costs, 35K is chump change. :) Of
> course, don't you (Gurth) divide all the cyberdeck costs by
> like 50 or something? That might make the 35K hurt more.
>
> --
> Da Twink Daddy
> datwinkdaddy@*******.com
> ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
> YM: DaTwinkDaddy
> AIM: DaTwinkDaddy

Actually I read it as the price of the deck was undetermined, but the
lifestyle cost while building it cost him 35k that he couldn't spend on
his deck :)

Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
PCGen OGL Chimp
ICQ: 14397299
AO: Nylan
Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

"The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to
keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
Message no. 5
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:33:46 +0100
According to Da Twink Daddy, on Thursday 20 November 2003 19:07 the word on
the street was...

> Under normal cyberdeck costs, 35K is chump change. :)

Yep :) It was mostly the time spent on creating the deck that made the
player decide to simply buy the software off-the-shelf, as he didn't feel
like having his character spend another three years writing that.

> Of course, don't you (Gurth) divide all the cyberdeck costs by like 50
> or something? That might make the 35K hurt more.

In my last campaign, yes. The problem that gave is that (as expected)
everyone and their hellhound owned a deck with MPCP 12+... My group's
still not sure how to handle this for our current campaign that's just
starting (I'm sure you've seen the GM's questions recently :) Basically, I
don't want the ridiculous costs of SR cyberdecks, but also not put
superdecks in everybody's hands.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:08:07 +1000
>> Of course, don't you (Gurth) divide all the cyberdeck costs by like 50
>> or something? That might make the 35K hurt more.

>In my last campaign, yes. The problem that gave is that (as expected)
>everyone and their hellhound owned a deck with MPCP 12+... My group's
>still not sure how to handle this for our current campaign that's just
>starting (I'm sure you've seen the GM's questions recently :) Basically, I
>don't want the ridiculous costs of SR cyberdecks, but also not put
>superdecks in everybody's hands.

Ok, so yeah they are a little expensive. But then again, you're paying for
an untraceable (in theory) combat cyberterminal. Try building a a
Kraftwork-8 without Evasion and Masking and see how much it costs. That
would be the basic home model. Even the security model combat CTs (Bod,
Evasion, Sensor) are cheaper then a "Shadowdeck".

This is just coming from an old otaku-decker.
Message no. 7
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:10:02 -0500
At 05:08 PM 11/21/2003, Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3) wrote:
>Ok, so yeah they are a little expensive. But then again, you're paying for
>an untraceable (in theory) combat cyberterminal. Try building a a
>Kraftwork-8 without Evasion and Masking and see how much it costs. That
>would be the basic home model. Even the security model combat CTs (Bod,
>Evasion, Sensor) are cheaper then a "Shadowdeck".

If you're shooting for "basic home model" you're looking at something like
MPCP 4 with just Sensor and Bod. Anything more than that, and you into the
realm of decker-wannabes or serious-gamer-types.

Of course, your point still stands.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Riggers and Character Creation
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:12:08 +0100
According to Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3), on Friday 21 November 2003
23:08 the word on the street was...

> Ok, so yeah they are a little expensive. But then again, you're paying
> for an untraceable (in theory) combat cyberterminal. Try building a a
> Kraftwork-8 without Evasion and Masking and see how much it costs.

Still far too much to be either realistic or something I would risk taking
with me on a shadowrun...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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