Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:13:41 +0000
So, finally we also have proof that Battletech is also linked and is a
future incarnation.

Anyone else notice the mech in the book. <g>

Two legs, cockpit, interchangeable mission pods... Yep, looks like a
mech to me.

Now, I wonder what implications that has for Battletech seeing as
EarthDawn is doomed and Shadowrun is doomed, and the whole cock up has
created this endless series of worlds where the civilisations are
doomed...

Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
but the proof is in the book... So...

--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 2
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:14:07 -0600
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Avenger wrote:
> Anyone else notice the mech in the book. <g>
> Two legs, cockpit, interchangeable mission pods... Yep, looks like a
> mech to me.

Hmm missed that. have to go look when i get back to my room. Page # ?

> Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
> but the proof is in the book... So...

Weeeellll H. and E. were saying that they were hoping that the increased
technology would help them against the Horrors this time around but that
they needed another thousand years. Hmmmm 2058+1000058 WHY thats the
current year in BattleTech isnt it! I wounder what a ERPPC does to a
Horror? Just get them anoyed?

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 3
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:02:58 EST
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:13:41 +0000 Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
writes:

>Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
>but the proof is in the book... So...

Yeah... that'd basically give you RIFTS (not too bad given that the SR
engine is hands-down better than anything that Palladium has been able to
cannablize..)

~Tim (been there, tried to convert that)
Message no. 4
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:21:26 -0500
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:14:07 -0600 The Bookworm
<Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU> writes:

<<Weeeellll H. and E. were saying that they were hoping that the
increased technology would help them against the Horrors this time around
but that they needed another thousand years. Hmmmm 2058+1000058 WHY
thats the current year in BattleTech isnt it! I wounder what a ERPPC
does to a Horror? Just get them anoyed?>>

Isn't Battletech on a different calendar than Shadowrun? If so, the dates
wouldn't necessarily match up; they could be in one of the down cycles
for all we know ...

1513:)
--
John Pederson (secretly hoping Btech and SR are never linked)
"Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 5
From: Spider Murphy <crickel@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:49:47 -0600
Avenger wrote:

> So, finally we also have proof that Battletech is also linked and is a
> future incarnation.
>
> Anyone else notice the mech in the book. <g>
>
> Two legs, cockpit, interchangeable mission pods... Yep, looks like a
> mech to me.
>
> Now, I wonder what implications that has for Battletech seeing as
> EarthDawn is doomed and Shadowrun is doomed, and the whole cock up has
> created this endless series of worlds where the civilisations are
> doomed...
>
> Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
> but the proof is in the book... So...

Maybe the magical cycle thins out when humanity is spread across a few tens
of thousands of worlds. ;) Only come around once every 10,00 years, or
something.

Spider Murphy
Message no. 6
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:31:59 +0000
Avenger once wrote,

> So, finally we also have proof that Battletech is also linked and is a
> future incarnation.
>
> Anyone else notice the mech in the book. <g>
>
> Two legs, cockpit, interchangeable mission pods... Yep, looks like a
> mech to me.
>
> Now, I wonder what implications that has for Battletech seeing as
> EarthDawn is doomed and Shadowrun is doomed, and the whole cock up has
> created this endless series of worlds where the civilisations are
> doomed...
>
> Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
> but the proof is in the book... So...

Heyheyhey....Not too fast buddy. I am not too fond of the
Earthdawn/Shadowrun "Look-we-planned-this!-yeah-right.." crossover in
the first place, so I may be extremely biaised, but there's nothing
more to mess up a good game than to link it with different universes
because of a few, subtle hints, or coincidences. Now, with the level
of technology achieved by the Awakened world of 2058, I think we can
assume that Walker techonology would have been developped eventually.
Does that mean that we are a couple of millenias away from Kerenski?
Hell no. It just means that FASA guys write FASA products :)
(Although I would love to see those big six-legged walker tanks,
a la Shirow Masamune (sp?))...

Trinity
-------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 7
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:04:11 +0000
In article <PnRdFBAlASV0Ewj8@*******.demon.co.uk>, Avenger
<Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes
>So, finally we also have proof that Battletech is also linked and is a
>future incarnation.
>
>Anyone else notice the mech in the book. <g>

Haven't got a copy yet.

>Now, I wonder what implications that has for Battletech seeing as
>EarthDawn is doomed and Shadowrun is doomed, and the whole cock up has
>created this endless series of worlds where the civilisations are
>doomed...

Nope. Horrors, meet a Plasma Cannon Weapon Focus :)
>
>Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
>but the proof is in the book... So...

Or some 2058 weapon designer played this really old game, and watched
some old Japanese cartoons, and thought "Howzabout that for a concept
vehicle"? :)


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 8
From: Sean Martinez <el_bandit@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:17:18 -0500
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:21:26 -0500 John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
writes:

>Isn't Battletech on a different calendar than Shadowrun? If so, the
dates
>wouldn't necessarily match up; they could be in one of the down cycles
for all we >know ...

Battletech is a completely different universe than Shadowrun, otherwise
there would still be magic, I think.

At least there would be some mention of it somewhere.

-El Bandit

Http://members.aol.com/elbandit/index.html
Message no. 9
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:05:42 GMT
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:17:18 -0500, Sean Martinez wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:21:26 -0500 John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
> writes:
>
> >Isn't Battletech on a different calendar than Shadowrun? If so, the
> dates
> >wouldn't necessarily match up; they could be in one of the down cycles
> for all we >know ...
>
> Battletech is a completely different universe than Shadowrun, otherwise
> there would still be magic, I think.

And weapon/sensor systems that could actually *hit* the broad side of a
barn :)



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 10
From: Blade Hunter <bladehnt@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:04:24 -0500
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Sean Martinez wrote:
> Battletech is a completely different universe than Shadowrun, otherwise
> there would still be magic, I think.
>
> At least there would be some mention of it somewhere.

Okay, playing the devil's advocate...
(and any flamings accepted to private email, devils should expect that, of
course) }:>

The timelines from Earthdawn to Shadowrun might already be distorted. The
map in the back of the Theran Empire book looks strangely familiar...

As for magic, we shouldn't forget the ComStar Order's (rather hokey)
ritual magics to get there gear working. (though i'm not enough of a
battletech fanatic to have picked up the ComStar book and looked into that
further)

And, of course, I remember with great clarity, from one particular
adventure I played through a while back, a rather awesome accomplishment.
One particular NPC developed the power of jamming radar. (I'm fairly sure
that was it.) The gamemaster at the time couldn't find any reason for
this, and thus it was attributed to psionics or magic of some kind.
(Boggles the mind, doesn't it? :)

okay, i'll go now...back from hiatus,
-Blade Hunter
bladehnt@*********.net
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:11:58 +0100
Paul J. Adam said on 19:04/28 Oct 97...

> Or some 2058 weapon designer played this really old game, and watched
> some old Japanese cartoons, and thought "Howzabout that for a concept
> vehicle"? :)

There's a BattleTech Center in downtown Seattle, and some teams that
regularly play it as well (the Tacoma Timberwolves, for example). In the
Seattle Sourcebook, it's near the entry for the Space Needle IIRC.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
'K moest kloppen want de bel doet het niet.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 12
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:09:38 -0500
On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:17:18 -0500 Sean Martinez <el_bandit@****.COM>
writes:
>On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:21:26 -0500 John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
>writes:
>
>>Isn't Battletech on a different calendar than Shadowrun? If so, the
>dates
>>wouldn't necessarily match up; they could be in one of the down
>cycles for all we >know ...
>
>Battletech is a completely different universe than Shadowrun,
>otherwise there would still be magic, I think.
>
>At least there would be some mention of it somewhere.


Actually, I don't think that a lack of mention means it couldn't be:)
Although, I think Pete was trolling; I know he despises the idea of
linking SR and ED, and is adamantly against linking BT with them, too:)

1523?
--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 13
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:17:00 GMT
on 27.10.97 Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU wrote:

TMP> > Dragons and horrors and spell chuckers in Battletech - me thinks not,
TMP> > but the proof is in the book... So...
TMP>
TMP> Weeeellll H. and E. were saying that they were hoping that the increased
TMP> technology would help them against the Horrors this time around but that
TMP> they needed another thousand years. Hmmmm 2058+1000058 WHY thats the
TMP> current year in BattleTech isnt it! I wounder what a ERPPC does to a
TMP> Horror? Just get them anoyed?

I never liked Katherine Steiner, but that's a bit hard. Though I guess a
full slavo from a Timberwolf should take care of Harly. Maybe that
crossover idea isn't that bad aftr all. ;)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 14
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:42:00 GMT
on 28.10.97 lobo1@****.COM wrote:

l> <<Weeeellll H. and E. were saying that they were hoping that the
l> increased technology would help them against the Horrors this time around
l> but that they needed another thousand years. Hmmmm 2058+1000058 WHY
l> thats the current year in BattleTech isnt it! I wounder what a ERPPC
l> does to a Horror? Just get them anoyed?>>
l>
l> Isn't Battletech on a different calendar than Shadowrun?

Nope. In BT they use GMT and strange calendars on planets, but the main
calender is the same as today.

l> John Pederson (secretly hoping Btech and SR are never linked)

Well, what would BT be with RC decks?



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 15
From: Spidey-mon <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:56:09 -0600
> full slavo from a Timberwolf should take care of Harly. Maybe that
> crossover idea isn't that bad aftr all. ;)

Or a non-stop particle cannon stream directed at his head.Die Harley
die.;)
Message no. 16
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 02:34:19 +0000
In article <345D0509.9CC@*****.net>, Spidey-mon <elfman@*****.NET>
waffled & burbled about Riggers and Mechs
>> full slavo from a Timberwolf should take care of Harly. Maybe that
>> crossover idea isn't that bad aftr all. ;)
>
>Or a non-stop particle cannon stream directed at his head.Die Harley
>die.;)

Didn't you guys know?

Harlequin is still designing mechs. He's responsible for most of the
Clan Omni's... <g>

That's why Inner Sphere and Clan mechs can't kill him - built in
failsafe. <snigger>

<disappears to troll somewhere else> :)


--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 17
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:53:00 GMT
on 29.10.97 bladehnt@*********.NET wrote:

b> > Battletech is a completely different universe than Shadowrun, otherwise
b> > there would still be magic, I think.
b> >
b> > At least there would be some mention of it somewhere.
b>
b> Okay, playing the devil's advocate...
b> (and any flamings accepted to private email, devils should expect that, of
b> course) }:>

b> As for magic, we shouldn't forget the ComStar Order's (rather hokey)
b> ritual magics to get there gear working. (though i'm not enough of a
b> battletech fanatic to have picked up the ComStar book and looked into that
b> further)

Oh well, both the UC and the later ComStar (after Prima
Waterly's...well...accident) don't use the rituals. They pretty much got
away from the 'mystify technology'-trip. Actually, if you read the first
BTech rules, you'll realize that the background is very different from
today's.

b> And, of course, I remember with great clarity, from one particular
b> adventure I played through a while back, a rather awesome accomplishment.
b> One particular NPC developed the power of jamming radar. (I'm fairly sure
b> that was it.) The gamemaster at the time couldn't find any reason for
b> this, and thus it was attributed to psionics or magic of some kind.
b> (Boggles the mind, doesn't it? :)

Yeah, the infamous incident at Mallory's World and later Styx. Where
Morgan Kell's mech didn't appear on the sensors and thus nobody hit
him...I'll never understand why FASA wrote that. And it's the only time
Mike Stackpole really pissed me off (if he invented that scene, if not,
I'll take it back :))



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 18
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:26:00 GMT
on 02.11.97 elfman@*****.NET wrote:
e> > full slavo from a Timberwolf should take care of Harly. Maybe that
e> > crossover idea isn't that bad aftr all. ;)
e>
e> Or a non-stop particle cannon stream directed at his head.Die Harley
e> die.;)

Oh well, the NPPC is quite a nasty weapon...:))

Are we getting OT? Nah, can't be....:)

To get at least a bit on topic: Never ever try to convert these babys to
SR. The result will be more than deadly to your game (I know a GM, who
included the stuff from the 3031 Technical Readout into his game. Nasty,
nasty...)

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 19
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:58:06 +0100
> To get at least a bit on topic: Never ever try to convert these babys to
> SR. The result will be more than deadly to your game (I know a GM, who
> included the stuff from the 3031 Technical Readout into his game. Nasty,
> nasty...)
>
> Tobias Berghoff

Well, A mech would not stand a chance against a stonewall would he?
Weapons with a reach of maximally 1,5 km... no guided missiles...
a maximum speed of about 100 kmh...

ss
Message no. 20
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:31:59 +0000
> Well, A mech would not stand a chance against a stonewall would he?
> Weapons with a reach of maximally 1,5 km... no guided missiles...
> a maximum speed of about 100 kmh...

Just as an addendum to this thread, the latest BT novel mentions
"soycaff, a bitter coffee substitute that gained popularity in the
twenty-first century "

(Quoting from memory, so I may have paraphrased a bit)

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 21
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:50:13 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-05 09:03:48 EST, bxb121@***.EDU writes:

>
> Just as an addendum to this thread, the latest BT novel mentions
> "soycaff, a bitter coffee substitute that gained popularity in the
> twenty-first century "
>
> (Quoting from memory, so I may have paraphrased a bit)
>
Yep, thought so. SR is the bridge in the gaps folks, those guys are going
through what my group has been surviving for 11 years now. Connectivity in
Game Line.

Imagine that.

-K
Message no. 22
From: lucifer <lucifer@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 00:51:29 -0600
J. Keith Henry

> Yep, thought so. SR is the bridge in the gaps folks, those guys are =
going
> through what my group has been surviving for 11 years now. Connectivit=
y in
> Game Line.
>
> Imagine that.

But wait, where are the Metas and the magic? It shouldn't be the
7th world YET!!!! ;-)

Lucifer
Prince of Darkness, Eater of Souls

"One owes respect to the living. To the Dead one owes
only Truth."--Voltaire

"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they
do suggest at first with heavenly shows."--Shakespeare,
from 'Othello'
Message no. 23
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:22:00 GMT
on 05.11.97 Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT wrote:
SS> > To get at least a bit on topic: Never ever try to convert these babys to
SS> > SR. The result will be more than deadly to your game (I know a GM, who
SS> > included the stuff from the 3031 Technical Readout into his game. Nasty,
SS> > nasty...)
SS> >
SS> > Tobias Berghoff
SS>
SS> Well, A mech would not stand a chance against a stonewall would he?
SS> Weapons with a reach of maximally 1,5 km... no guided missiles...
SS> a maximum speed of about 100 kmh...

...and armor 46.....

Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.
Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the time
of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall within
seconds.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 24
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:16:41 -0600
On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

Dang my propogations slow recently. I just got this on Tue the 11th.

> Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
> Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
> forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.
> Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the time
> of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall within
> seconds.

Yah PPCs are nasty but the A4 is inferior to the current US Army MLRS.
Most imprtently dont forget to check the ranges of the weapons. In Btech
the maximum range direct fire weapon(AC/2) can only fire about 30 hexs.
At 30m a hex that comes out to just under a Kilometer. A Stonewall can
easly out range that with even its secoundary weapons. But thats getting
into the whole BTech weapons are screwy debate and WAY OT so I willl leave
it there.

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 25
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:46:08 +0100
> ...and armor 46.....

How? Can you apply more armor to something that moves (eg. arm) or to
a shellike vehicle? A tank doesn't have something vulnerable as
joints, just rotating turrets... and I aestimate the stonewalls
weight well beyound that of even the heaviest mechs...

> Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
> Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
> forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.

Yeah, a t-bird can fly and a mech has to walk or jump... well that's
a advantage!

> Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the time
> of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall within
> seconds.
> Tobias Berghoff

Come on, get serious... mechs are a quite cool imagination, but they
are far from sensible... on the other hand, look at the stonewall and
you might see what tanks look like in 50 years.

ss
Message no. 26
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:56:40 -0500
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Simon T. Sailer wrote:

> > ...and armor 46.....
>
> How? Can you apply more armor to something that moves (eg. arm) or to
> a shellike vehicle? A tank doesn't have something vulnerable as
> joints, just rotating turrets... and I aestimate the stonewalls
> weight well beyound that of even the heaviest mechs...
>
> > Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
> > Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
> > forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.
>
> Yeah, a t-bird can fly and a mech has to walk or jump... well that's
> a advantage!
>
> > Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the time
> > of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall within
> > seconds.
> > Tobias Berghoff
>
> Come on, get serious... mechs are a quite cool imagination, but they
> are far from sensible... on the other hand, look at the stonewall and
> you might see what tanks look like in 50 years.
>
> ss
>
Overall, mechs would make very poor weapons. First, they have a very high
profile, making them easy to hit at long distances. Tanks, by comparison,
are short and long, and at long distances, it is much harder to judge the
elevation needed to hit a target. Even using line of sight weapons like
laser, which would not be noticably affected by the Earth's gravity, a
mech ould be worse off since it is quite a bit taller than a tank.
Secondly, mechs have very vulnerable legs. In urban and other
non-conventional situations, this would place them at a severe
disadvantage. Mines, tripwires and all the nasty booby traps used against
flesh soldiers would be effective against mechs.
Message no. 27
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:29:13 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-12 10:57:24 EST, Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT writes:

> ...and armor 46.....
>
> How? Can you apply more armor to something that moves (eg. arm) or to
> a shellike vehicle? A tank doesn't have something vulnerable as
> joints, just rotating turrets... and I aestimate the stonewalls
> weight well beyound that of even the heaviest mechs...

I have found a way within Mr. Szeto's rules for R2, as I understand them, but
NO, I am not going to post them or even tell Mike (my roommate), because I
don't want to go through that crap in any game.

> > Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
> > Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
> > forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.
>
> Yeah, a t-bird can fly and a mech has to walk or jump... well that's
> a advantage!

Well yeah, but 'hovering' for a panzer sucks on the economy, even with
Airwisps ideas for spells augmenting economy.

> > Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the
time
> > of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall within
> > seconds.
> > Tobias Berghoff
>
> Come on, get serious... mechs are a quite cool imagination, but they
> are far from sensible... on the other hand, look at the stonewall and
> you might see what tanks look like in 50 years.

Actually, a Stonewall has a body of probably not higher than a 10, IMHO,
simply because of the weight-to-armor ratio needed for higher body toys.
Also, there is something that Mike and I have run into here at the home
ground.

Multiple-Power-Plant Vehicles.

Yeah, you heard/read this right. Anyone else thought of this? What
happens??? Come on Mr. Szeto, time to really earn your worth...

-K
Message no. 28
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 07:52:47 -0500
At 13-Nov-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:



>Multiple-Power-Plant Vehicles.

>Yeah, you heard/read this right. Anyone else thought of this? What
>happens??? Come on Mr. Szeto, time to really earn your worth...

I have done it some time ago and I belive that you can think in which
vehicle...

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #50:

My main computers will have their own special operating system
that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and
Macintosh powerbooks.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 29
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:13:00 GMT
on 12.11.97 Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT wrote:
SS> > ...and armor 46.....
SS>
SS> How? Can you apply more armor to something that moves (eg. arm) or to
SS> a shellike vehicle? A tank doesn't have something vulnerable as
SS> joints, just rotating turrets... and I aestimate the stonewalls
SS> weight well beyound that of even the heaviest mechs...

Well, that's a BTech armor-rating. Well, read into BTech and you'll find
the line "...and more amored than any tank"....

SS> > Actually, the BTech weapons are lightyears ahead of SRs. I mean PPCs,
SS> > Arrow VI....outch! From the numbers, the stonewall should win, but don't
SS> > forget the way you can move a mech and what you can do with a t-bird.
SS>
SS> Yeah, a t-bird can fly and a mech has to walk or jump... well that's
SS> a advantage!

Well, just compare the moves you cand do to the moves a...say skateboard
can do. A mech has arms, legs and stuff like that.

SS>
SS> > Oh yeah: Have you ever heard about the FCS the Stalker had during the
SS> > time of the starleague? This baby would disassabmle every stonewall
SS> > within seconds.
SS>
SS> Come on, get serious... mechs are a quite cool imagination, but they
SS> are far from sensible... on the other hand, look at the stonewall and
SS> you might see what tanks look like in 50 years.

Of course a mech is irreal. If you take a look at the describtions from
the Star League-era, you'll se what these baby's could do. How about a PPC
with 50km range?

This is getting OT....



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 30
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:40:29 +0100
About riggers and mechs and Shadowrun..

Consider the way rigging works - giving cybernetic control of a vehicle.
Wouldn't there be some gain in controlling a vehicle which had arms and legs?
That way, after all, the vehicle corresponds to the rigger's body, which should
make control inherently a lot more familiar...

Not a good enough reason to actually make one, though. At least with today's
technology (Or, probably, SR tech). But I wouldn't rule out changes in
technology - or strategy - which would make Mechs 'better' than tanks.
In the BT universe, these changes has happened. In SR, they probably haven't.

How might it happen?

Well, consider the following - most police forces are fairly conservative of
(their own) lives. They go to fairly long lengths to minimize risks. That's
the main reason why police forces (swat teams in particular) would probably
use powered armor quite soon after a workable model is available. Let us
assume (as is the general assumption) that exoskeletal, powered battle armors
kicks ass. That is, it can carry enough armor to render normal hand arms
powerless, offer significant stabilization for firing weapons, *AND* retain or
even improve the wearer's mobility. (A rocket pack, elongated legs for longer
strides, that sort of thing). Then you bring a weapon into 'street' warfare
that is so powerful you need similar tech to fight it without heavy casualties.
(And you need good morale and, I hope, better incentive than money, to take
heavy casualties voluntarily). Thus the powered suits get bigger, tougher,
more advanced. More research would be put into it. Perhaps this would lead
to changes in tactics, technology, or both, which would render mechs viable.
Perhaps not. Do you want powered armor in your campaign? If so, how should
it 'look' and 'feel' ?

I've allready described the 'Wolf' combat suit idea before, I won't bore you
guys with another one. There's other options - slow, lumbering machines,
or the exact opposite - almost unarmored, but extremely fast and agile
machines (that can climb most surfaces to boot). Is it mobile enough to
get back on its legs if it falls? Is it so unstable it's wobbly and prone
to falling? That sort of thing...
Message no. 31
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:49:00 GMT
on 13.11.97 Ereskanti@***.COM wrote:

E> Multiple-Power-Plant Vehicles.
E>
E> Yeah, you heard/read this right. Anyone else thought of this? What
E> happens???

Been there. Build that.
One of my player has a modified Hind, which had an electric engine in
addition to his normal one. And one of my own PCs had a car with to gas
engines that could be run simultaniously (made it really fast and send
economy right through the floor). The problem with that (since R2 came
out) is to figuer out what an engine wights. Well, some research helps,
but isn't exactly usefull when creating a vehicle on the fly. I'd really
like to know what the R2 engines are supposed to wight...



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 32
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:59:04 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-15 20:16:42 EST, Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE writes:

>
> Been there. Build that.
> One of my player has a modified Hind, which had an electric engine in
> addition to his normal one. And one of my own PCs had a car with to gas
> engines that could be run simultaniously (made it really fast and send
> economy right through the floor). The problem with that (since R2 came
> out) is to figuer out what an engine wights. Well, some research helps,
> but isn't exactly usefull when creating a vehicle on the fly. I'd really
> like to know what the R2 engines are supposed to wight...
>
Ah yes Tobias, you are actually someone I have been wanting to speak too on
topics very close to this. I can begin to guess one of the players now,
especially after seeing said character in action.

I do agree with you though, a better estimate of weight ratios of vehicle
engines might help.

Man, R2 is out for only a little while and we (the List) has filled up almost
a fully fledged dozen wholes and helped point out almost two dozen more. I'm
impressed.

-K
Message no. 33
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Mechs
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:29:00 GMT
on 16.11.97 Ereskanti@***.COM wrote:

E> > Been there. Build that.
E> > One of my player has a modified Hind, which had an electric engine in
E> > addition to his normal one. And one of my own PCs had a car with to gas
E> > engines that could be run simultaniously (made it really fast and send
E> > economy right through the floor). The problem with that (since R2 came
E> > out) is to figuer out what an engine wights. Well, some research helps,
E> > but isn't exactly usefull when creating a vehicle on the fly. I'd really
E> > like to know what the R2 engines are supposed to wight...
E> >
E> Ah yes Tobias, you are actually someone I have been wanting to speak too on
E> topics very close to this.

<flattered> Who? Me? Cool. :)

E> I can begin to guess one of the players now,
E> especially after seeing said character in action.

Sorry, but I don't get what you try to tell me.

E> I do agree with you though, a better estimate of weight ratios of vehicle
E> engines might help.

I've found another thing where I needed the weight and CFs of an engine:
engine-less Zeppelins. I figured that it might be quite usefull (as
zeppelins really can't transport that much load) to link a couple of
zeppelins togheter and pull them with a single engine (like a train).
Hmmm....


E> Man, R2 is out for only a little while and we (the List) has filled up
E> almost a fully fledged dozen wholes and helped point out almost two dozen
E> more. I'm impressed.

Yeah, but I want to stress that Rigger 2 is a really great book. I
mean...I love it! There are just things that 1000 eyes see, but two don't.
(to Son Szeto: It's not as if we all try to rip your book apart. You've
just managed to get the whole list thinking about rigging. THATS'S
impressive!)


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Riggers and Mechs, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!