Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Riggers and Security
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 13:01:00 PST
A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
corp?



Ricky

<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 2
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:17:13 -0700 (MST)
St. Jean, Ricky wrote:
|
|A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
|matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
|separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
|corp?

By using your wits: bribe the guards, disguise yourself as an employee, beat
their system, buy or steal the mag keys, bribe or blackmail someone working
for the corp (or blackmail someone in the upper ranks), etc. Security
systems will readilly stop your average person. If you're crafty it doesn't
stand a chance. Don't go up against the rigger running the system, find a
weak link in the system or the corporation and exploit it.

If you want a good example to get through security really well rent the
movie "Sneakers" with Robert Redford. The characters slip through advanced
security systems by learning everything they can, finding a weakness, and
exploiting it. Cohesive teamwork also plays a large part.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer The UnCover Company
dbuehrer@****.org info: uncover@****.org
www.geopages.com/TimesSquare/1068 access: database.carl.org
www.carl.org/uncover/unchome.html
Customer Support: 1-800-787-7979
FAX: (303) 758-5946
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 01:46:55 -0600
>St. Jean, Ricky wrote:
>|
>|A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
>|matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
>|separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
>|corp?

i would think it would be a decker.... and she probably isn't controlling the security so
much
as controlling/organizing the response to detected questionable input (you)... one person
running the security system is against most corps policy, they trust software not meat. a
lot of
corps also use deckers to cruise in and out of their systems keeping an eye out for
hackers
and the like, they can sometimes spot (and deal with) events that the software isn't
programmed
for...


>
>By using your wits: bribe the guards, disguise yourself as an employee, beat
>their system, buy or steal the mag keys, bribe or blackmail someone working
>for the corp (or blackmail someone in the upper ranks), etc. Security
>systems will readilly stop your average person. If you're crafty it doesn't
>stand a chance. Don't go up against the rigger running the system, find a
>weak link in the system or the corporation and exploit it.


have your own decker hack it... key is, know what you can do to get in, find out if you
can
get in one of those ways for that facility; if not, you'll need help or someone to show
you
a better way.... but remember: planning, planning, planning.




---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323
IPPA #A-0117
Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:21:46 +1100 (EST)
>A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
>matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
>separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
>corp?

*shake* Security CAN be done that way, but... :)

First of all, if the corp wants a link outside for it's security (say,
like an alarm system), that means there's a link out, that you MIGHT be
able to get in via.

Second: Even when rigged, it's rather hard to know what's going on
everywhere. It's still possible to slip into a rigged security system.

Third: Not everyone does it this way, anyway... even the ones who do
aren't invulnerable. Make a physical penetration, jack in locally.

Fourth: Read "Corporate Security Handbook", where all this is discussed.


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realizedthat a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent infinding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 5
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:05:25 +0000 (GMT)
|
|>St. Jean, Ricky wrote:
|>|
|>|A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
|>|matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
|>|separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
|>|corp?
|
| i would think it would be a decker.... and she probably isn't controlling the security
so much
|as controlling/organizing the response to detected questionable input (you)... one person

|running the security system is against most corps policy, they trust software not meat.
a lot of
|corps also use deckers to cruise in and out of their systems keeping an eye out for
hackers
|and the like, they can sometimes spot (and deal with) events that the software isn't
programmed
|for...
|

Nope. I've heard of riggers taking control of buildings. Think of ot like
'Spocks Brain'. The rigger keeps the temperature/humidity/air flow right
unconciously, while he uses the cameras and other security devices as his
senses. To make things worse, there's nothing stopping the Corp from using
software controlled security AND a rigger! After all, a decker can't hack
into a rigger!

|>
|>By using your wits: bribe the guards, disguise yourself as an employee, beat
|>their system, buy or steal the mag keys, bribe or blackmail someone working
|>for the corp (or blackmail someone in the upper ranks), etc. Security
|>systems will readilly stop your average person. If you're crafty it doesn't
|>stand a chance. Don't go up against the rigger running the system, find a
|>weak link in the system or the corporation and exploit it.
|
|
|have your own decker hack it... key is, know what you can do to get in, find out if you
can
|get in one of those ways for that facility; if not, you'll need help or someone to show
you
|a better way.... but remember: planning, planning, planning.
|
|
|
|
|---------construction in progress-------------------
|westec@******.com
|TIP #1323
|IPPA #A-0117
|Lively #F188
|---------construction in progress-------------------
|
|


--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:33:57 +0100
David Buehrer said on 3 Jan 96...

> If you want a good example to get through security really well rent the
> movie "Sneakers" with Robert Redford. The characters slip through advanced
> security systems by learning everything they can, finding a weakness, and
> exploiting it.

This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.

> Cohesive teamwork also plays a large part.

And kicking in doors, of course :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will I still be waiting for somebody else to understand?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:33:57 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 4 Jan 96...

> First of all, if the corp wants a link outside for it's security (say,
> like an alarm system), that means there's a link out, that you MIGHT be
> able to get in via.

There's no reason why you should be able to get _in_ via a line that's
only designed to handle _out_-going signals, like for an alarm to the
nearest Lone Star office.

> Fourth: Read "Corporate Security Handbook", where all this is discussed.

Especially if you're a GM :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will I still be waiting for somebody else to understand?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:33:56 +0100
St. Jean, Ricky said on 3 Jan 96...

> A friend of mine said that security is no longer controlled through the
> matrix. He had said that it is now controlled by a rigger jacked into a
> separate system. If so the how the hell are you supposed to penetrate a
> corp?

By having either another rigger jack into the system, or install a
System-Control Rig Emulator in our deck and load the Rigger Protocol
Emulation utility into active memory. Still any halfway-decent security
rigger will kick your decker's ass if I'm not mistaken...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will I still be waiting for somebody else to understand?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:50:51 +1100 (EST)
>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.

I still tend to get that too... however, I always leave a way in that
they can find with a bit of legwork. They don't usually bother, but
hey... it means I don't feel guilty when I start dishing out the Deadly
wounds.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:55:48 +1100 (EST)
>By having either another rigger jack into the system, or install a
>System-Control Rig Emulator in our deck and load the Rigger Protocol
>Emulation utility into active memory. Still any halfway-decent security
>rigger will kick your decker's ass if I'm not mistaken...

Only if the decker play's by the rigger's rules. There was a good example
in the original VR: imagine the computer system to be a video game. Now,
you might be a good player, you might be a bad player. But if you're a
decker, you can change the rules so that you're the BEST player. :)


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:56:18 +1100 (EST)
>> First of all, if the corp wants a link outside for it's security (say,
>> like an alarm system), that means there's a link out, that you MIGHT be
>> able to get in via.
>
>There's no reason why you should be able to get _in_ via a line that's
>only designed to handle _out_-going signals, like for an alarm to the
>nearest Lone Star office.

Any sensible alarm system will be more than just a "Help, I'm in trouble"
yell. It'll respond to the Lone Star (or Knight Errant, or Renraku
security, etc) system, making sure the call was acknowledged, etc.

Given this, it's a two-way line. Sure... the line might not be connected
to the Matrix. But that's what datataps are for... :)


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 12
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 08:33:37 -0700 (MST)
Gurth wrote:
|
|David Buehrer said on 3 Jan 96...
|
|> If you want a good example to get through security really well rent the
|> movie "Sneakers" with Robert Redford. The characters slip through advanced
|> security systems by learning everything they can, finding a weakness, and
|> exploiting it.
|
|This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
|but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
|blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.

Jeez, they (your players) must be pretty good. Try writing an adventure
where the lead in is that they are the Second team to be hired. The first
one went in guns blazing and got wasted. Have the Johnson describe the
carnage in gory detail and tell the characters that the corporate's security
riggers are now on alert and that they will need to figure out some other
way of getting in to get the job done. Make sure the players learn roughly
what they're up against in this scene, then let them do all the detail work
by themselves.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer The UnCover Company
dbuehrer@****.org info: uncover@****.org
www.geopages.com/TimesSquare/1068 access: database.carl.org
www.carl.org/uncover/unchome.html
Customer Support: 1-800-787-7979
FAX: (303) 758-5946
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 11:57:00 PST
>>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.

>I still tend to get that too... however, I always leave a way in that
>they can find with a bit of legwork. They don't usually bother, but
>hey... it means I don't feel guilty when I start dishing out the Deadly
>wounds.

I have my players do it the subtle way. If they go in loud they attract
attention and usually come out dead or wind up in the hospital for a few
months. Besides I always have My Johnson say if it's loud you don't get
paid as well. If they go in guns blazing then usually the payoff is just
enough to cover expenses.



Ricky

"you can always tell when a teacher is mad, they don't blink"
-from the calendar 'when you lick a slug you tongue goes numb'

<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 14
From: h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au (Mad Hamish)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:29:32 +1100
Gurth writes
>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.


Have they ever really, really pissed off a corp. Made a lot of runs against
one corp and never run for them?
Have them hired by the pissed off corp to attack one of it's own based and
have it rigged to explode when they get inside.


****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

Mad Hamish

Hamish Laws
h_laws@**********.sandybay.utas.edu.au
Message no. 15
From: dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:41:26 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>David Buehrer said on 3 Jan 96...
>
>> If you want a good example to get through security really well rent the
>> movie "Sneakers" with Robert Redford. The characters slip through
advanced
>> security systems by learning everything they can, finding a weakness, and
>> exploiting it.
>
>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.
>
Not if the exit is a guns blazing ambush established by Lone Star and/or
corporate security forces. And those that don't wait around long enough for the
ambush to be established they are not staying long enough to get anything
valuable. No value no money and guns blazing should be expensive! Consider it
the partial success route to bankruptcy. :)


David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
Message no. 16
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:57:03 -0600
>>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.
>
>I still tend to get that too... however, I always leave a way in that
>they can find with a bit of legwork. They don't usually bother, but
>hey... it means I don't feel guilty when I start dishing out the Deadly
>wounds.
>

the trick is to make sure they succeed, at least in part, when they
DO actually plan ahead and use the skills & intelligence they have. If
they try it once and it doesn't work any better than Fists&Feet they
are apt to just do it the "easy way" (i.e. no brainwork).....





---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323
IPPA #A-0117
Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 17
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:57:00 -0600
> To make things worse, there's nothing stopping the Corp from using
>software controlled security AND a rigger!

undoubtedly

>After all, a decker can't hack into a rigger!

oh reallllllyyyyyy.... are you so sure???? :)






---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323
IPPA #A-0117
Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 18
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:57:02 -0600
>David Buehrer said on 3 Jan 96...
>
>> If you want a good example to get through security really well rent the
>> movie "Sneakers" with Robert Redford. The characters slip through
advanced
>> security systems by learning everything they can, finding a weakness, and
>> exploiting it.
>
>This is the way I've been trying to get players to do things for years,
>but it's not worked so far... Mostly it's the "We go in with the guns
>blazing" kind of entry, and they usually get away with it, too.
>gurth<


My players know me too well by now... I love "letting" their plans, however
simple or complex, succeed absolutely (at first).... then they realize that
things
are going too easy and they really wish they would've planned a little more...





---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323
IPPA #A-0117
Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 19
From: westec@******.COM (Neon Sihn)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:57:04 -0600
>I have my players do it the subtle way. If they go in loud they attract
>attention and usually come out dead or wind up in the hospital for a few
>months. Besides I always have My Johnson say if it's loud you don't get
>paid as well. If they go in guns blazing then usually the payoff is just
>enough to cover expenses.


most of my players know to ask if there are bonuses for clean jobs...
altho most of the time it's not done that way, they at least know there's
an incentive...





---------construction in progress-------------------
westec@******.com
TIP #1323
IPPA #A-0117
Lively #F188
---------construction in progress-------------------
Message no. 20
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:50:24 +0000 (GMT)
|
|> To make things worse, there's nothing stopping the Corp from using
|>software controlled security AND a rigger!
|
| undoubtedly
|
|>After all, a decker can't hack into a rigger!
|
| oh reallllllyyyyyy.... are you so sure???? :)

I said Rigger, not RIG. After all, they aren't telepathic are they?
I suppose they could try to screw around with the software of the Rig though
(Assuming of course, the software isn't in ROM)
If it IS in ROM then the only thing a decker can try is drek up the system
variables.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 21
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 04:21 EST
>I said Rigger, not RIG. After all, they aren't telepathic are they?
>I suppose they could try to screw around with the software of the Rig though
>(Assuming of course, the software isn't in ROM)
>If it IS in ROM then the only thing a decker can try is drek up the system
>variables.....
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a VCR (vehicle control rig, not what
you stick VHS or Beta in) use an assist interface. So couldn't a decker use
a Black Hammer utility, which sends lethal signals through the assist
interface of a deck, against the rigger if the rigger was jacked into a
remote device that also was connected to the matrix? If, so what would the
target # be, and would a VCR have hardening in that case?
---Sedah Drol
--
Home page: Better Homes and Gardens page 36 volume 3 March 1995:)(sorry
couln't resist)
---
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
---
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 22
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Riggers and Security
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:31:59 +1100 (EST)
>Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a VCR (vehicle control rig, not what
>you stick VHS or Beta in) use an assist interface. So couldn't a decker use
>a Black Hammer utility, which sends lethal signals through the assist
>interface of a deck, against the rigger if the rigger was jacked into a
>remote device that also was connected to the matrix? If, so what would the
>target # be, and would a VCR have hardening in that case?

Yes and no. Yes, it uses an ASIST interface. No, it's not the same as a
decker's, so the same program wouldn't work. Yes, you could probably make
one that would.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Riggers and Security, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!