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Message no. 1
From: Dwayne MacKinnon <910252m@******.ACADIAU.CA>
Subject: Rigging questions.
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 23:28:54 -0300
Well,
I have a few questions for the riggers among you. First off: under
engine customization it lists the maximum increase as being +50 of listed
speed. Does that mean that the most you can increase is 50, or that the most
you can increase is 50+listed speed.
Secondly, if it is 50, does it apply only to cruising speed? This would
mean you could do five levels of increase (increases are + 10/30). If it's
50 over max. speed then only one level is ever possible... which makes no
sense.
Thirdly, if your signature is 1 or lower, do you allow passive thermal
masking? It says in the RBB that the maximum increase is 50%... but I think
you should always be able to get at least one level. What do the rest of you
think?
Finally, do you folks agree that a rigger is the most complicated
archetype to set up? All those vehicle mods... :) I still find it funny
that you need to add sideboxes to most motorcylcles in order to rig them...
:-) :-) :-)

DMK

--
"I can't afford to make any exceptions. Once word gets out that a pirate has
gone soft people start to disobey him and it's nothing but work, work, work
all the time." - The Man in Black, from The Princess Bride

Dwayne MacKinnon My opinions are my own, never
910252m@******.acadiau.ca those of my employer.
Message no. 2
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 16:56:01 +0100
Ah, a subject close to my heart, riggers...
>
> Well,
> I have a few questions for the riggers among you. First off: under
> engine customization it lists the maximum increase as being +50 of listed
> speed. Does that mean that the most you can increase is 50, or that the most
> you can increase is 50+listed speed.
> Secondly, if it is 50, does it apply only to cruising speed? This would
> mean you could do five levels of increase (increases are + 10/30). If it's
> 50 over max. speed then only one level is ever possible... which makes no
> sense.

I don't know, I never use engine customisation as it gives a chance of the
engine failing when you need it most, and you can never be sure if it's
going to do it or not.

> Thirdly, if your signature is 1 or lower, do you allow passive thermal
> masking? It says in the RBB that the maximum increase is 50%... but I think
> you should always be able to get at least one level. What do the rest of you
> think?

Yep, I'd round up and allow one level, but it makes no difference, 'cos the
minimum target number is 2 anyway.

> Finally, do you folks agree that a rigger is the most complicated
> archetype to set up? All those vehicle mods... :) I still find it funny
> that you need to add sideboxes to most motorcylcles in order to rig them...
> :-) :-) :-)
>

I agree, the vehicle design rules are broken, severely. Compare them to
Car Wars or GURPS vehicles and think of what might have been...
(looks wistfully into the middle distance)

Riggers can be very effective though, the work is worth it.

Actually, thinking about it it might be a good idea if we post some
of our better customised vehicles, to increase the pool available to
each of us and reduce the work we need to do.
I've got a modified step-van and a modified Westwind 2000 that my characters
use.
Anyone else interested?

The 2nd edition RBB might improve matters, but personally I'm writing
GURPS Shadowrun to let me use an ace background with an ace system.

Take it easy

GLO

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 3
From: Kevin White <whitek@***.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 09:05:54 PDT
> Well,
> I have a few questions for the riggers among you. First off: under
> engine customization it lists the maximum increase as being +50 of listed
> speed. Does that mean that the most you can increase is 50, or that the most
> you can increase is 50+listed speed.

My understanding of the rules in the RBB is that the most you can
increase is 50 kph.

> Secondly, if it is 50, does it apply only to cruising speed? This would
> mean you could do five levels of increase (increases are + 10/30). If it's
> 50 over max. speed then only one level is ever possible... which makes no
> sense.

I agree. The speed calculations should be done at the crusing
speed level, and then the max speed should be recalculated(eg., if you get
5 levels of increase, that's +50 kph to cruising and +150 kph(!) to max
speed.

> Thirdly, if your signature is 1 or lower, do you allow passive thermal
> masking? It says in the RBB that the maximum increase is 50%... but I think
> you should always be able to get at least one level. What do the rest of you
> think?

Hmm. If you allow at least one point of signature modification per
level of passive thermal, then even folks at signature 1 are able to pick
up a better signature with only a little work. I dunno, I'd have to see an
example of the situation.

> Finally, do you folks agree that a rigger is the most complicated
> archetype to set up? All those vehicle mods... :) I still find it funny
> that you need to add sideboxes to most motorcylcles in order to rig them...
> :-) :-) :-)

Yup. There are so many options to choose from. In our campaign,
I'm the rigger(tm), but since the GM is keeping a strong hand on our money
and roleplaying out our major weapon purchases, we've stayed away from the
rocket launchers and combat drones. The heaviest weapon any character in
the group possesses is my FN MAG 5 Med. Machine Gun, and we haven't even
used it...yet.

> DMK

--
whitek@***.orst.edu
Heather Hudson fanboy
still sig.less...
Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 17:28:53 -0400
On Fri, 26 Aug 1994, Kevin White wrote:

>
> Yup. There are so many options to choose from. In our campaign,
> I'm the rigger(tm), but since the GM is keeping a strong hand on our money
> and roleplaying out our major weapon purchases, we've stayed away from the
> rocket launchers and combat drones. The heaviest weapon any character in
> the group possesses is my FN MAG 5 Med. Machine Gun, and we haven't even
> used it...yet.
>
>
> --
> whitek@***.orst.edu

Then you are doing something right...

Marc
Message no. 5
From: "Brian E. Angliss" <ANGLISS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 20:29:04 -0400
I work the engine custimization rules to mean +50%, not +50. So a Saab
Dynamit would be capable of running at 120/375. And this can be added to,
in my game at least, with the +50% speed for a turbocharger, making the final
speed maximum 180/560.

I also allow at least 1 level of thermal masking at all times.

Finally, I always allow rigger mods with variable CF costs. This means that
you can rig a bike with the necessary hardware and still have room for the
weapons you really want to make it the bitchin bike you need.

Probably not standard, but it works and makes it easier for my players most
of the time.

Brian
Message no. 6
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:18:42 +1000
On the subject of customised engines, I have another question, but I will
first put forth the way I interpret the rules.

I have the maximum allowed speed increase allowable for customised engines
at +50/+150, as the line above seems to indicate it goes up in blocks of
+10/+30.

Now for my question: If I customise my engine, and get my +50/+150 (or +50%
for those who do it that way), and then turbocharge it, the +25% for
turbocharging is based on the _original_ speed, or the new speed? Likewise
if I put in a high performance engine, then turbocharge it.

BTW, why would anyone customise instead of putting in a high performance?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !tv(--) b++ D+ B? e+ u@ h+(*)
f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+
Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 15:34:43 -0400
On Tue, 30 Aug 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Now for my question: If I customise my engine, and get my +50/+150 (or +50%
> for those who do it that way), and then turbocharge it, the +25% for
> turbocharging is based on the _original_ speed, or the new speed? Likewise
> if I put in a high performance engine, then turbocharge it.
>
The way we work this is that turbocharging a high
performance/customized engine gives you the 25% of the high
performance/customized value. So a little quick math yields an overall
maximum increase of (1) x (1.5) x (1.25) = 1.875 times the original
speed. That's fast. But then again, your thermal signature is so
ridiculuous that your car is melting the asphalt at stoplights.

> BTW, why would anyone customise instead of putting in a high performance?
>
Because you can't put active thermal masking on a high
performance engine. It only works with customization.

> Damion Milliken

Marc
Message no. 8
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 16:56:01 +0100
Ah, a subject close to my heart, riggers...
>
> Well,
> I have a few questions for the riggers among you. First off: under
> engine customization it lists the maximum increase as being +50 of listed
> speed. Does that mean that the most you can increase is 50, or that the most
> you can increase is 50+listed speed.
> Secondly, if it is 50, does it apply only to cruising speed? This would
> mean you could do five levels of increase (increases are + 10/30). If it's
> 50 over max. speed then only one level is ever possible... which makes no
> sense.

I don't know, I never use engine customisation as it gives a chance of the
engine failing when you need it most, and you can never be sure if it's
going to do it or not.

> Thirdly, if your signature is 1 or lower, do you allow passive thermal
> masking? It says in the RBB that the maximum increase is 50%... but I think
> you should always be able to get at least one level. What do the rest of you
> think?

Yep, I'd round up and allow one level, but it makes no difference, 'cos the
minimum target number is 2 anyway.

> Finally, do you folks agree that a rigger is the most complicated
> archetype to set up? All those vehicle mods... :) I still find it funny
> that you need to add sideboxes to most motorcylcles in order to rig them...
> :-) :-) :-)
>

I agree, the vehicle design rules are broken, severely. Compare them to
Car Wars or GURPS vehicles and think of what might have been...
(looks wistfully into the middle distance)

Riggers can be very effective though, the work is worth it.

Actually, thinking about it it might be a good idea if we post some
of our better customised vehicles, to increase the pool available to
each of us and reduce the work we need to do.
I've got a modified step-van and a modified Westwind 2000 that my characters
use.
Anyone else interested?

The 2nd edition RBB might improve matters, but personally I'm writing
GURPS Shadowrun to let me use an ace background with an ace system.

Take it easy

GLO

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 9
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:34:09 +1000
Gareth Owen writes:

> [much deleted]

> Riggers can be very effective though, the work is worth it.

One of our players has just started playing a rigger, and would like
a better idea of `what makes a rigger effective'. Maybe you can offer
some ideas, or, better yet, a philosophy for `rigger construction'.

One thing we noticed - riggers take damage through their drones, in
a sense. Which means that when they're destroyed, they're down a
large amount of nuyen; and they can't be healed magically, either!

Comments?

luke
Message no. 10
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 12:44:30 +1000
luke writes:

> One of our players has just started playing a rigger, and would like
> a better idea of `what makes a rigger effective'. Maybe you can offer
> some ideas, or, better yet, a philosophy for `rigger construction'.

Well, I'm not able to help you there, nobody in my games has ever had a
rigger. Similar reasons to why nobody ever runs a decker I guess. If you're
not in your element, you're useless. I know this is a bit of a
generalisation, but deckers and riggers tend to be very narrow in their
possible roles during runs. Especially if they want to be good at decking or
rigging, 'cause then they're not too handy at other stuff. On the other
hand, if they don't mind being a medicore decker or rigger, then they can do
other things as well, only not as good as the rest of the team. Hence very
few people I know want to have them as characters.

> One thing we noticed - riggers take damage through their drones, in
> a sense. Which means that when they're destroyed, they're down a
> large amount of nuyen; and they can't be healed magically, either!

Better than loosing your life or limb like you would if you're a sammie I
guess. Nuyen is a lot easier to come by than is somebody who can "raise
dead" :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 11
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 13:44:09 -0400
On Mon, 5 Sep 1994, Luke Kendall wrote:

> One of our players has just started playing a rigger, and would like
> a better idea of `what makes a rigger effective'. Maybe you can offer
> some ideas, or, better yet, a philosophy for `rigger construction'.

<<<<<SNIP>>>>>

>
> luke
>

Just a few thoughts on this one. Riggers are as versatile as
Samurai. Just as you can have sam's that range from "close-in cutting" to
"SMG mayhem" to "demolition chefs" to "sniper death", the
rigger can be
the close support (with small drones like the micro-skimmer or Doberman that
can go into an area with the rest of the party) to the getaway driver
(fast car, high skill; see Sonoda's "Riding Bean" anime and you'll get
the idea) to the air support (Wandjina drones or helicopters loaded for
bear) to the stealthy surveillance type (with but-high Signature and
stealthy seeing-eye drones like the crawler and the Condor). So just
decide what kind of rigger you want and go from there.

Marc (who loves riggers, but never gets a chance to play them.)
Message no. 12
From: Matthew Alan Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 20:10:06 -0400
> One thing we noticed - riggers take damage through their drones, in
> a sense. Which means that when they're destroyed, they're down a
> large amount of nuyen; and they can't be healed magically, either!
>

Actually, with a vehicle facility(I think) you can repair drones that have
taken all 10 boxes. It's still expensive, but not as much as buying
another drone just like it.
Message no. 13
From: Scott <JMJSS1@******.ALASKA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 16:37:27 -0800
This is my first LISTSERV group I've gotten in so can somebody let me
know if they recieve this message? Also I'm just curious how many people
in this group play the on the SRUN MUSH?
Message no. 14
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 11:54:50 +1000
> This is my first LISTSERV group I've gotten in so can somebody let me
> know if they recieve this message? Also I'm just curious how many people
> in this group play the on the SRUN MUSH?

Well, I got it. Perhaps you should set the options so that you get a copy of
whatever you post. It's a good idea. As for the MUSH, I'm sure people on
here are on there, but personally I have better things to do with my time
than waste them on that.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 15
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: Rigging questions.
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 17:10:53 +0100
luke writes:
> Gareth Owen writes:
> > [much deleted]
> > Riggers can be very effective though, the work is worth it.
> One of our players has just started playing a rigger, and would like
> a better idea of `what makes a rigger effective'. Maybe you can offer
> some ideas, or, better yet, a philosophy for `rigger construction'.
>
Hmmmm, my favourite subject, again.
I meant to reply to this earlier, but I didn't find the time.

Much has already been said on this topic, but a few thoughts of
my own:

1) Drones are very useful.
-Doberman, Steel Lynx, etc. - heavy firepower, intimidating.
-Snooper and esp. Condor - stealthy recon drones.
-Rotodrone - airborne firepower.
I like drones, my rigger Max uses them a lot, in a firefight they are the
best way to enter an area you suspect may be a kill zone. How about giving
a cheap drone like a snooper an explosive self destruct charge? The drone
enters the unexplored area and sees a bunch of Samurai, which, being
Samurai, geek it. The drone then explodes and your own samurai storm the
area.

2) Big Support Vehicles
Get a van, give it enough armoured seats for the entire team,
make sure the mages have a good view, stuff a few well hidden weapons
and drone bays in it, give it some armour, and away you go.

3) Escape Vehicle
Saab Dynamit or Westwind 2000, a little armour perhaps, maybe
an LMG (to keep 'em honest), and there you are.

4) Other roles for Riggers
Riggers can often double as deckers, they've got the cyberware
and the right approach to life (ie they're into VR), but deckers are
another subject entirely.

5) Cyberware for Riggers
Well, a datajack and VCR obviously, but all mine also have
skillwires plus at level 3 and a softlink. This allows them to have
at level 3 all the support skills they need and all the alternative
vehicle skills they want. A rigger, controlling a rigged vehicle at
with skill 3 and a VCR 2 has low target numbers and buckets of dice.
I feel that a rigger should be able to do something with any captured
vehicles. Max also uses his b/r 3 skillchips to perform cheap vehicle
upgrades for the rest of the party.

6) Longstop
If the run turns sour the rigger can very often get away, he's
sitting in the armoured van outside controlling the recon and assualt
drones. So, he is the cavalry, or he can get help. Always have a plan
if things go bad. He can also use his sensor suite to look out for
enemy backup on its way in.

Max hardly ever leaves his van whilst on a run, it's not
that he's a coward, it's just that he is much more effective there

Hope this is interesting/of use to you.

Oh boy, I love riggers.

GLO - road warrior in the shadows

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 16
From: Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.NL>
Subject: Rigging Questions
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:04:04 +0100
Just afew questions about rigging.

1. When a rigger uses his Control dice for the position test are those
dice avaiable again on his next action. The position test is not an
action as you know. So at the beginning of a combat round does a rigger
get his dice back, although he has no action yet till further on in the turn.

2. If a drone is set to automatically attack someone, what amount of dice
does it use for all it's tests. For example what dice does it use for
initiative for the position test, for firing it's guns.

3. What exactly does the sensor rating mean, is it used like intelligence
for perception test. What are the ranges for sensors, how far does their
radar scan. What kind of target numbers does it use. I can imagine it
uses the signature rating of a vehicle to spot it in a perception test.
But what about spotting people in the dark for example.

4. What are the rules for ECM usage. Opposed test against thge sensors
with each others rating as target number.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| Beware of what you ask for you may recieve it |
--------------------------------------------------------------

**** The Cornflake Killer Strikes again ****
Message no. 17
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigging Questions
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:47:41 -0600
>Just afew questions about rigging.
>
>1. When a rigger uses his Control dice for the position test are those
>dice avaiable again on his next action. The position test is not an
>action as you know. So at the beginning of a combat round does a rigger
>get his dice back, although he has no action yet till further on in the turn.

No the rigger has to allocate his dice prior to rolling. Page 105 right hand
column "The Control Pool refreshes at the beginning of each of the rigger's
actions, but the player removes the dice spend in the Position Test each
time the Pool refreshes." This is from the hardback version.

>2. If a drone is set to automatically attack someone, what amount of dice
>does it use for all it's tests. For example what dice does it use for
>initiative for the position test, for firing it's guns.
>
Rigger Black Book page 114. "...assume that the vehicle has the appropriate
Vehicle Control Skill at a rating equal to the AutoPilot Rating." Sensor
rating to lock on with sensors for sensor hit. Autopilot rating to to hit
with no sensor firing.
>3. What exactly does the sensor rating mean, is it used like intelligence
>for perception test. What are the ranges for sensors, how far does their
>radar scan. What kind of target numbers does it use. I can imagine it
>uses the signature rating of a vehicle to spot it in a perception test.
>But what about spotting people in the dark for example.
>
RBB page 126 "a vehicle Sensor Rating represents the capacity of the
vehicles' sensors across a wide spectrum that includes thermal, radar,
ultrsound and standard and enchanced visual identification systems."
As to the range of sensors a better question is how far can your
weapon system hit out to. If you achived sensor lock on you hit
if you weapon system has the range to hit. Yes that means there is
no short, medium, long or extreme range mods.
>4. What are the rules for ECM usage. Opposed test against thge sensors
>with each others rating as target number.
>
ECM increases the targets' signature rating making it harder to hit.
ECCM decreases the targets' ECM successes thus decreases the target's
signature rating back to what it was before ECM.

To have a vehicle with a high signature rating and then improve the
signature rating. It is extremely hard to have a high signature vehicle
and fast. The two things are almost exclusive of each other. Maybe
I will post my modified Blitzen w/sidecar, full rigger control and
weapons package. With its speed there is no need for a high
signature rating. It will out run you weapon system.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> | Beware of what you ask for you may recieve it |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> **** The Cornflake Killer Strikes again ****
>
Sinbad Sam
Riggin' On the Dark Side.
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Rigging Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:00:20 +0100
>1. When a rigger uses his Control dice for the position test are those
>dice avaiable again on his next action. The position test is not an
>action as you know. So at the beginning of a combat round does a rigger
>get his dice back, although he has no action yet till further on in the turn.

As far as I can remember, the dice are gone for the entire turn (someone is
bound to prove me wrong, since I don't have my books here...)

>2. If a drone is set to automatically attack someone, what amount of dice
>does it use for all it's tests. For example what dice does it use for
>initiative for the position test, for firing it's guns.

It's autopilot rating.

>But what about spotting people in the dark for example.

A TN of 8 -- it's in Fields of Fire.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oooh! Smells like a job for ... TOILETMAN!!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 19
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rigging Questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:02:12 -0700
Thanks to everyone who responded. I'm going to reply, but right now I'm not
supposed to be typing (I had a cortizone injection in my wrist for carpal
tunnel syndrome :( ). I'm still reading my mail and the list though.

Thanks!


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Rigging Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:30:32 +0930
WILLIAM FRIERSON wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone who responded. I'm going to reply, but right now I'm not
> supposed to be typing (I had a cortizone injection in my wrist for carpal
> tunnel syndrome :( ). I'm still reading my mail and the list though.

My sympathies... it's a bitch, isn't it?

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***

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