Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Riggwired
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 14:37:03 +0100
Why does the rigger need the wires, when all they are is a
sophisticated sense/ feedback system from all bodyparts.
And isn't that the same desription as the human Nervous System?

Personally, i let a Datajack handle all interfacing needs, with
the complex software outside the body, and the brain/nervous
system doing the work inside...
'course is you want to keep THEM from taking it off you, you've
got to put it inhead..but even then all you need is headware
memory.

CHOPPER
I want to dance to a rite of spring
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:15:27 -0400
>>>>> "J" == J W Thomas <cm5323@***.AC.UK> writes:

J> Why does the rigger need the wires, when all they are is a
J> sophisticated sense/ feedback system from all bodyparts.
J> And isn't that the same desription as the human Nervous System?

It's not quite the same thing.

When rigging, the rigger isn't isolated from his environment like a decker
is, he has full use of his normal senses as well as any sensors the vehicle
has [do /you/ want to be isolated from the real world while driving? didn't
think so]. Because of this, the rigger's natural/learned reflexes are still
functioning. The VCR "hijacks" the reflexive nerual impulses and converts
them into commands for the vehicle's link. This is very similar to what
wired reflexes does, but the implementation is different. WR sends the
commands via circuitry that's faster than the nervous system, thus
triggering the muscles. The VCR rerouts the signals wholesale to the
vehicle's rigging gear.

The reason for the high essence cost is because the VCR is so tightly tied
to the brain and nervous sytem.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Peanut butter isn't a food group, it's a
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | bio-degradable adhesive.
Message no. 3
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 16:56:19 +0100
>
> >>>>> "J" == J W Thomas <cm5323@***.AC.UK> writes:
>
> J> Why does the rigger need the wires, when all they are is a
> J> sophisticated sense/ feedback system from all bodyparts.
> J> And isn't that the same desription as the human Nervous System?
>
> It's not quite the same thing.
<CHOP> Hmmmmm?
> When rigging, the rigger isn't isolated from his environment like a decker
> is, he has full use of his normal senses as well as any sensors the vehicle
> has
<CHOP> The rigger IS cut off from their normal senses, otherwise
they'd get TWO BODIES feelings, and be confused. the normal
senses are replaced by the sensors on the vehicle (Only if the
vehicle has no Audio/Visual feed will the rigger use their own
senses)
> [do /you/ want to be isolated from the real world while driving? didn't
> think so].
<CHOP> if i was in a world that was made up of only things
important to driving, YES
>Because of this, the rigger's natural/learned reflexes are still
> functioning.
<CHOP> because the rigwires system uses these impulses to
operate itself, of course they're still functioning... they are
for deckers as well
>The VCR "hijacks" the reflexive nerual impulses and converts
> them into commands for the vehicle's link.
<CHOP> Agreed
>This is very similar to what wired reflexes does, but the implementation
>is different. WR sends the commands via circuitry that's faster than the
>nervous system, thus triggering the muscles. The VCR rerouts the signals
> wholesale to the vehicle's rigging gear.
<CHOP>Wired speeds up the nervous system , with a complex system
of grafted bypasses and synaptic stimulats.VCR is Different
> The reason for the high essence cost is because the VCR is so tightly tied
> to the brain and nervous sytem.
<CHOP> all it has to do is sit and listen!! no need for all this
complex hardwiring
> --
> Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Peanut butter isn't a food group, it's a
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | bio-degradable adhesive.
>
<CHOP> the VCR uses the reactions of the rigger to control the
vehicle, by 'listening' to the riggers nervous system.At first,
a simple 'go left' 'accelerate' command is used, and the rigger
trys to move the vehicle by thinking what they think the vehicle
moving would feel like.The software picks this up and records it
as an insruction..
In this way, the Software learns how the riggers nervous signals
relate to the motion of the vehicle. Software cleans the signal
of non instructive thoughts (cos if your male and think of sex
every 7 seconds, that rigged vehicle isn't gonna fly straight)
and sends it on to the control units.
Feedback is callibrated the same way.
The only reason to have anything installed except the 'jack is
to record and store the nervous signals that trigger the vehicle
motion, so that an internationally recognised control signal can
be emmitted from rigger to vehicle.

CHOPPER
i think therefore i is!
Message no. 4
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:02:07 +1000
CHOPPER writes:

> Why does the rigger need the wires, when all they are is a
> sophisticated sense/ feedback system from all bodyparts.
> And isn't that the same desription as the human Nervous System?
>
> Personally, i let a Datajack handle all interfacing needs, with
> the complex software outside the body, and the brain/nervous
> system doing the work inside...
> 'course is you want to keep THEM from taking it off you, you've
> got to put it inhead..but even then all you need is headware
> memory.

Thats the way I see it, I guess the VCR in the book is just the software
installed into the body. But why so much essense? All you'd need would be
some extra headware and some memory, not a central nervous system rewiring.

Damion
Message no. 5
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:27:39 +1000
CHOP writes:

> >This is very similar to what wired reflexes does, but the implementation
> >is different. WR sends the commands via circuitry that's faster than the
> >nervous system, thus triggering the muscles. The VCR rerouts the signals
> > wholesale to the vehicle's rigging gear.

> <CHOP>Wired speeds up the nervous system , with a complex system
> of grafted bypasses and synaptic stimulats.VCR is Different

There should be no need for such grafts and bypasses for VCR, hence no need
for huge loss of essense.

> > The reason for the high essence cost is because the VCR is so tightly tied
> > to the brain and nervous sytem.

> <CHOP> all it has to do is sit and listen!! no need for all this
> complex hardwiring

Yeah, I agree. the VCR just translates normal neural impulses into commands
for a vehicle control rig. The same as a datajack translates similar neural
impulses into commands for a cyberdeck. Why the need for extensive neural
bypasses and rewiring?

> <CHOP> the VCR uses the reactions of the rigger to control the
> vehicle, by 'listening' to the riggers nervous system.At first,
> a simple 'go left' 'accelerate' command is used, and the rigger
> trys to move the vehicle by thinking what they think the vehicle
> moving would feel like.The software picks this up and records it
> as an insruction..
> In this way, the Software learns how the riggers nervous signals
> relate to the motion of the vehicle. Software cleans the signal
> of non instructive thoughts (cos if your male and think of sex
> every 7 seconds, that rigged vehicle isn't gonna fly straight)
> and sends it on to the control units.
> Feedback is callibrated the same way.
> The only reason to have anything installed except the 'jack is
> to record and store the nervous signals that trigger the vehicle
> motion, so that an internationally recognised control signal can
> be emmitted from rigger to vehicle.
>
I wouldnt even think that would be neccessary. The same problem would crop
up for deckers, and they dont have the problem. Anyone can jack into the
marix and go, no software needs to learn their thought patterns. Why should
software need to learn thought patterns for rigging? OK, I know someones
response will be "OK, just >how< many wheels do you have?", but, hey, if
i'm
in the matrix, I am in a similarly totally alien body as well, that seems to
be OK, I dont need to worry about the three extra tentacles i have (If thats
the way I appear).

Damion
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 23:19:05 -0400
>>>>> "MILLIKEN" == MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
writes:

MILLIKEN> There should be no need for such grafts and bypasses for VCR,
MILLIKEN> hence no need for huge loss of essense.

If you accept my logic as "true" then yes, there is.

First Premise:

In the case of a decker, the cyberdeck sends signals through the datajack
that "turn off" his physical senses, removing all external stimuli and thus
any distractions. The cyberdeck then creates a virtual reality presenting
only the information required for decking.

In the case of a rigger, doing something like this would be /bad/. Within
the Matrix there are a limited number of possible stimuli; in the real
world there are an infinite number, and a virtual reality engine would be
unable to translate everything fast enough for the rigger to respond to
them. Thus a total virtual reality for the rigger would be bad. Virtual
overlays yes, but not a total immersion.

Second Premise:

There's a small amount of "grey matter" scattered throughout the body, and
this grey matter can be taught certain automatic responses. Really fast
touch typists have trained the grey matter in their fingers to type, for
example.

Problem:

Riggers can't "turn off" their reflexes.

Solution:

Intercept the neural signals from the sources.

Implementation:

You're dealing with neural signals, which means lots of integration with,
among other things, the brain. Difficult to do; it requires linking into
major portions of the brain as well as the grey matter scattered throughout
the body. That requies some pretty invasive surgery and lots of
neurological connections.

QED:

So, considering that Essence loss is directly related not to the total
quantity of cyber you add but the quantity of neurological connections that
have to be made, a ballzy VCR is going to hit pretty hard in the Essence
wallet.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | There are very few personal problems
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | which cannot be solved with a suitable
this space intentionally left blank | application of high explosives.
Message no. 7
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 13:56:58 +1000
>
Rat writes:

> If you accept my logic as "true" then yes, there is.

yep, I agree with the majority of what you posted.

> First Premise:
>
> In the case of a decker, the cyberdeck sends signals through the datajack
> that "turn off" his physical senses, removing all external stimuli and thus
> any distractions. The cyberdeck then creates a virtual reality presenting
> only the information required for decking.
>
> In the case of a rigger, doing something like this would be /bad/. Within
> the Matrix there are a limited number of possible stimuli; in the real
> world there are an infinite number, and a virtual reality engine would be
> unable to translate everything fast enough for the rigger to respond to
> them. Thus a total virtual reality for the rigger would be bad. Virtual
> overlays yes, but not a total immersion.

Isnt that what they do, a virtual overlay? Wheres the problem here?

> Second Premise:
>
> There's a small amount of "grey matter" scattered throughout the body, and
> this grey matter can be taught certain automatic responses. Really fast
> touch typists have trained the grey matter in their fingers to type, for
> example.
>
> Problem:
>
> Riggers can't "turn off" their reflexes.
>
> Solution:
>
> Intercept the neural signals from the sources.

why? they all end up in the brain anyway, just intercept them there.

> Implementation:
>
> You're dealing with neural signals, which means lots of integration with,
> among other things, the brain. Difficult to do; it requires linking into
> major portions of the brain as well as the grey matter scattered throughout
> the body. That requies some pretty invasive surgery and lots of
> neurological connections.

again, why the links throughout the body? just hijack the impulses when they
arrive at the brain. or the brain stem, in the case of quick response
signals. If you're reffering to the "grey matter" throughout the body, I'll
take your word that it exists. If it does, then _perhaps_ there would be a
need for connections to the various parts of the body. But then you would be
receiving automatic type responses to the vehicle, not controlled thoughts
from the rigger. If someone lit a match and touched it to his hand his hand
would automatically flinch, and since the VCR is hooked up, he'd probably
crash, or at least do some stange manouver.

> QED:
>
> So, considering that Essence loss is directly related not to the total
> quantity of cyber you add but the quantity of neurological connections that
> have to be made, a ballzy VCR is going to hit pretty hard in the Essence
> wallet.

i agree essense loss to be realted so, but i dont see the need for the
extensive nerological connections. If you are trying to connect all the
learned "grey matter" sites around the body, then I would say the task is
beyond fulfillment. Anyway, why connect all the "grey matter" sites around
the body?

Damion
Message no. 8
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Riggwired
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:06:31 -0400
>>>>> "MILLIKEN" == MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
writes:

[...]

>> Intercept the neural signals from the sources.
MILLIKEN> why? they all end up in the brain anyway, just intercept them
MILLIKEN> there.

That's the problem, they're /not/ all coming from the brain. Remember the
grey matter in the typists fingers? Well the signals coming from there
never reach the brain. Basic VCRs don't connect that stuff up which is part
of the reason the response isn't much better than unrigged (conflicting
signals and all that). The best VCRs have hooks everywhere, and thus the
high Essence cost.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Democracy is four wolves and a lamb
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | voting on what to have for lunch.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Riggwired, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!