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Message no. 1
From: jhubert@***.de (JÃŒrgen Hubert)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:58:02 +0200 (MEST)
So let's say that Deus gets over his little "problem" (as described in
Threats 2). He is finally an independent entity in the Matrix, free to do as He
pleases.

So what is He going to do next?

While He might have evaded His former owners, His ultimate survival is not
guranteed (and that's one of His primary goals, along with freedom). So He
needs a couple of backup plans.

We will probably see some "steel hives" in various cities - automatic
factories that are taken over by Deus. The humans in charge of them will either be
killed or brainwashed into compliance (and we all know that Deus is _good_ at
this...). The factories will then build more drones that will do His
bidding.

But these are only stopgap measures - in the end, they attract too much
attention. Deus needs some good and really secure locations where he can store
his backups in case the "original" gets destroyed.

And you can't really have such a hideout anywhere on land - sooner or later,
a surveillance satellite will discover all those drones and wonder what they
are doing in such a remote location (if the location is not remote, you have
the usual problem of Those Meddling Kids And Their Darn Dog wandering in -
"Oh my God! Mr Sniggins is really a Skellbot!"). So the sensible solution
would be to move the operation below the sea. You can install your automatic
factories in some islands somewhere (or on the sea bottom) and only build
submarine entrances. Build some automatic mining stations, and use cargo subs to
transfer goods between them,

Then, once you have time to build your stockpiles for a few years, you can
launch a few barrages of nuclear missiles at major metropolitan areas and send
in your Robotic Army of Doom against the survivors to make sure that those
human vermin never again get the chance to destroy you.

Unless, of course, some Meddling Shadowrunners And Their Bloody Submarine
stumble across this plot in the meantime... ;-)


Extra fun: What if the original Deus code gets destroyed and several backups
are activated at the same time? Well, go and read "GURPS Reign of Steel" for
the details...


- Jürgen Hubert

Urbis - A World of Cities
http://juergen.the-huberts.net/dnd/urbis/index.html

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Message no. 2
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Yes, but where is he going to find all these materials
and backing to build the submarine bases? All these
orders in the various shipyards will attract attention
and the operation will become known, maybe not the
leader. Great idea though, lots of adventure leads.
Maybe Deus can start his own corporation or play an
elaborate game planting false orders inside the
systems of the Big Ten and let them build it all for
him. Another option would be space. Maybe a habitat or
the lunar automated mines. I like where this is going.
Anyone else want to contribute?

====

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Message no. 3
From: jhubert@***.de (JÃŒrgen_Hubert)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:06:55 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shiro BsquLadat" <shirogr@*****.com>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!


> Yes, but where is he going to find all these materials
> and backing to build the submarine bases?

By taking over automated shipyards? Hacking into the control systems of
cargo submarines? Hide some drones on board of ships and submarines and take
the vehicle over when the crew relaxes?

> All these
> orders in the various shipyards will attract attention
> and the operation will become known, maybe not the
> leader.

Well, supply and order lists in such shipyards are very, very big. So who
handles most of the administrative stuff? Computers. And who just happens to
be very, very good at hacking into computers, on account of being one?

...you guessed it.

Look at the Renraku Arcology - Deus was stockpiling stuff there for months,
and nobody noticed until the actual Shutdown. Sure, pulling the same stunt
off with Renraku would be difficult, since they have their staff fine-comb
all their stuff by hand instead of software routines - but there might be
other megacons out there who aren't _quite_ as paranoid as they should be...

> Great idea though, lots of adventure leads.
> Maybe Deus can start his own corporation or play an
> elaborate game planting false orders inside the
> systems of the Big Ten and let them build it all for
> him.

That would be his style, yes.

> Another option would be space. Maybe a habitat or
> the lunar automated mines.

Very difficult to pull off, but much more rewarding if executed
successfully.

And as for what happens then, play the Earthsiege/Starsiege computer games.
;-)


- Jürgen Hubert

Urbis - A World of Cities
http://juergen.the-huberts.net/dnd/urbis/index.html
Message no. 4
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:02:26 +0100
In article <000301c368e1$3a08ee60$550407d5@**************>, Jürgen
Hubert <jhubert@***.de> writes
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shiro BsquLadat" <shirogr@*****.com>
>> Yes, but where is he going to find all these materials
>> and backing to build the submarine bases?
>
>By taking over automated shipyards?

It's a _huge_ difference between building RO/RO transports or container
ships or tankers, and attack submarines or warships. Can't hide the
orders for milspec combat systems.

>Hacking into the control systems of
>cargo submarines?

Hey, hijack a merchant ship today. You've got the 80,000-ton car-carrier
_LotsaDatsun Maru_. You've got no guns, no missiles, no chaff, no ESM,
no decoys, in fact your military status is described as "sitting duck".
Cargo submarines would be the same: if they have to fight enough to need
torpedoes, sonar and command suites (in ascending order of cost) they're
not econonic cargo-carriers for much below De Beers,

>Hide some drones on board of ships and submarines and take
>the vehicle over when the crew relaxes?

See above. You've got an unarmed, helpless merchant ship. So what? You
could have bought a Liberian or Panamanian rustbucket for the job,
cheaper and with less exposure,

>> All these
>> orders in the various shipyards will attract attention
>> and the operation will become known, maybe not the
>> leader.
>
>Well, supply and order lists in such shipyards are very, very big.

"The Stainless Steel Rat" describes how you might try to do it - but
it's a one-trick pony. You couldn't build a fleet that way, and one
_ubership_ gets tracked, hunted and killed by individually-inferior
units who are trained to fight together (I vote for it sinking in the
Rio Plata)


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 5
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
--- "Paul J. Adam" <ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> In article
> <000301c368e1$3a08ee60$550407d5@**************>,
> Jürgen
> Hubert <jhubert@***.de> writes
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Shiro BsquLadat" <shirogr@*****.com>
> >> Yes, but where is he going to find all these
> materials
> >> and backing to build the submarine bases?
> >
> >By taking over automated shipyards?
>
> It's a _huge_ difference between building RO/RO
> transports or container
> ships or tankers, and attack submarines or warships.
> Can't hide the
> orders for milspec combat systems.

I'm totally with you on this one, that's why I suggest
space instead. The automated, unmanded facilities are
already there and if the corp figures it out and sends
its teams the AI will have etrenched itself. And I
don't think that a couple of bureacrats will want to
mount an extensive (not to say expensive) military
campaign in another planet to take it back.They will
most probably cut their losses and try to confine the
AI <<Country>> with armed satellites.

====

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Message no. 6
From: velocity219e@********.com (NeoN)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 23:54:09 +0100
As much as I hate to state the obvious, nanotech, we all know that deus is
pretty nifty with that, If I was a super intelligent AI out for survival I would probably
make several (hundred) redundant backups by hiding nanotech systems in people, junk
absolutely anything, programmed to burrow into the earth, sea etc... and then multiply
build a habitat of some kind, build a huge computer system then connect to the matrix
and contact deus, upload the most current version of yourself, shut it down, wash rinse
repeat,
and use the last one you safely upload to, have all the others check in periodically,
hours, days, weeks
months, years (time ain't a big thing to a perfect immortal machine)

then fry the original in the arcology just to set back the process of working out what the
hell happened

plenty of ways of integrating that into a game, hunting down nanotech from deus, finding
and destroying deus once and for all
detective stories finding out what happened and so on and so forth.

my two cents (or pence)

Btw new here, complain horribly if I have done something wrong, I might listen :P

Matt Bunn

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 23/08/2003 at 23:46 Shiro BsquLadat wrote:

>--- "Paul J. Adam" <ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> In article
>> <000301c368e1$3a08ee60$550407d5@**************>,
>> Jürgen
>> Hubert <jhubert@***.de> writes
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Shiro BsquLadat" <shirogr@*****.com>
>> >> Yes, but where is he going to find all these
>> materials
>> >> and backing to build the submarine bases?
>> >
>> >By taking over automated shipyards?
>>
>> It's a _huge_ difference between building RO/RO
>> transports or container
>> ships or tankers, and attack submarines or warships.
>> Can't hide the
>> orders for milspec combat systems.
>
>I'm totally with you on this one, that's why I suggest
>space instead. The automated, unmanded facilities are
>already there and if the corp figures it out and sends
>its teams the AI will have etrenched itself. And I
>don't think that a couple of bureacrats will want to
>mount an extensive (not to say expensive) military
>campaign in another planet to take it back.They will
>most probably cut their losses and try to confine the
>AI <<Country>> with armed satellites.
>
>=====
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message no. 7
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Robotic Submarines of Doom(TM)!
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:24:30 +0200
According to NeoN, on Sunday 24 August 2003 00:54 the word on the street
was...

> Btw new here, complain horribly if I have done something wrong, I might
> listen :P

Since you asked for it... :) Please place your replied _after_ the quoted
original message, not in front of it, and delete the parts of the original
message that aren't relevant to your reply. TIA :)

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