Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:28:21 -0400
Like, does a mall babe dig chili fries? Okay, bear with me cause I think
this could be a fun concept for a character to see played out. I've designed
this physical adept character for my cousin who just started playing
Shadowrun for the first time. She's a she, so natch I made the char a she
and thought it would be interesting to invent a new skill and kind of
fighting that I'd never seen or heard of before and that's basically a kind
of rollerblading kickboxer. I know it sounds corny and almost even a little
too anime, but I think that's what's going to make it so fun to watch
evolve. Plus it would make for some pretty interesting visuals. Now here's
what I had in mind for the stats for rollerblades since there technically
are none in existence (at least not that I'm aware)...:

WEAPON CONCEAL REACH DAMAGE COST S.I.
Rollerblades 9* 1 (Str +1) Stun 30¥
.5

*Really not sure on the concealability, because what are you trying to
conceal? And for the skill to use them I just made up the skill
"rollerblading". I figured for actual fighting with them I would have her
roll twice. One roll for 'blading, and the other for unarmed combat if the
first roll succeeded. Or do you think just the first roll would be
sufficient for both as technically you're just trying to trick off
somebody's face (or various other body parts)?

Okay, this is a brand new idea for me but I think I've got it set up pretty
fair. What needs tweaking? Any ideas/constructive criticisms? Yes, I already
know it's cornier than a Kansas lump of drek, but beyond the corn?


Just looking for YOUR .02¥
The Mad Kilted Cyberzombie GM

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
Message no. 2
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:23:43 +0200 (CEST)
> WEAPON CONCEAL REACH DAMAGE
> COST S.I.
> Rollerblades 9* 1 (Str
> +1) Stun 30¥
> .5

I would lower the reach to zero. Reach 1 is a
longsword or a katana. As for the damage, (Str+1)M
Stun or (Str+2)M Stun look alright to me.

IIRC, rollerblading is a specialization of Athletics.

Also, if you want some good inspiration for this
character's fighting style, you should play Streets of
Rage 2 (Sega Megadrive/Genesis). Eddie "Skate" Hunter
does exactly what you're looking for, and this game
rocks anyway (although I prefer to play as Blaze or
Axel, but I digress). ^^

-- Wild_Cat
(what, I'm doing *research* for Doc Nitro!)






Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ?
Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo !
Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/

Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les
nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A
télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
Message no. 3
From: sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:45:56 -0400
<I would lower the reach to zero. Reach 1 is a longsword or a katana.>
I can see your point but I was thinking of the length of your leg in a good
kick.

<As for the damage, (Str+1)M Stun or (Str+2)M Stun look alright to me.>
I realize in hindsight that I forgot to put the level. Thanks for filling
that part in. That's exactly what I was thinking. I figured +1, though I
wasn't really sure what kind of damage a set of skates would do in a kick.

<IIRC, rollerblading is a specialization of Athletics.>
I hadn't thought of that at the time, though maybe by making it a full-out
skill that could help justify using the skill itself for melee attacks?

<Streets of Rage 2 (Sega Megadrive/Genesis)>
There was also a Nintendo or SNES game (I can't recall which) now that I
think back that was a side-scroll action where the main characters were
rollerbladers.


Just my .02¥
The Mad Kilted Jamesman

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid963
Message no. 4
From: frakkle@****.com (Derek Bryan)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:42:23 -0400
> <I would lower the reach to zero. Reach 1 is a longsword or a katana.>
> I can see your point but I was thinking of the length of your leg in a
good
> kick.
>
> <As for the damage, (Str+1)M Stun or (Str+2)M Stun look alright to me.>
> I realize in hindsight that I forgot to put the level. Thanks for filling
> that part in. That's exactly what I was thinking. I figured +1, though I
> wasn't really sure what kind of damage a set of skates would do in a kick.
>
> <IIRC, rollerblading is a specialization of Athletics.>
> I hadn't thought of that at the time, though maybe by making it a full-out
> skill that could help justify using the skill itself for melee attacks?
>
> <Streets of Rage 2 (Sega Megadrive/Genesis)>
> There was also a Nintendo or SNES game (I can't recall which) now that I
> think back that was a side-scroll action where the main characters were
> rollerbladers.
>

Personally, I'd do cyberskates.

You could use a the Athletics/skating specialization to possibly give her
more combat pool? I know it is sometimes used in that way to give someone
more dice to dodge with. I would allow it, in this case, to provide more
dice to attack.
Message no. 5
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
> WEAPON CONCEAL REACH DAMAGE COST S.I.
> Rollerblades 9* 1 (Str +1) Stun
> 30¥
> .5
>
> *Really not sure on the concealability, because what are you trying
> to
> conceal? And for the skill to use them I just made up the skill
> "rollerblading". I figured for actual fighting with them I would
> have her
> roll twice. One roll for 'blading, and the other for unarmed combat
> if the
> first roll succeeded. Or do you think just the first roll would be
> sufficient for both as technically you're just trying to trick off
> somebody's face (or various other body parts)?

I would suggest a slightly different approach here.

Have her take a decent Athletics skill and specialize in
Rollerblades. Have her take the Capoera martial art, and specialize
in kick attack. If you are unfamiliar with the art, it is an
extremely acrobatic, kick oriented, combat dance (the martial arts
used by Catwoman in the new movie is ~loosely~ based on Capoera).
Now you use the rollerblading skill for Athletics tests to not fall
during combat (effectively Crash tests). You use the standard
rollerblade movement modifiers. And you use the capoera skill for
Melee tests.
Have her buy Rollerblades as one of her Maneuvers if you are using
the Martial Arts rules from C.C. Obviously, Kick Attack would be
another vital Maneuver.
Don't treat the rollerblades as a weapon at all. Treat them like a
pair of Hardlinder gloves, simply boosting the Power of her unarmed
attacks (when kicking) by +1 or +2. The damage level will still be M
Stun at base.

Perhaps at this point it is obvious, but I had a player do this in my
most recent table top game. The approach outlined above worked
pretty well. And yes, a very cool visual. :)

======Korishinzo
--capoera = good, tiring fun




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 6
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:14:17 +0200 (CEST)
--- Derek Bryan <frakkle@****.com> a écrit :
> Personally, I'd do cyberskates.
>

Bad idea IMO. Cyberskates are completely useless (I
won't even mention the non-retractable ones, which are
at best a joke): they're expensive, require two
cyberlegs (which, given that this character concept
screams "adept", is already quite bad in itself) and
don't give you any benefit over regular, rollerblades.
Okay, you don't need a bag to carry them around when
you're not using them. Big deal, you'll need the bag
for your shoes anyway.

Oh, I forgot another kickass source for inspiration:
Jet Set Radio (or to be more accurate, "Jet Set
Waaaydeeiyoooooooowh!!!!") (Dreamcast/XBox). Not many
fights (if any), but wicked cool tricks and lots of
ideas about where to perform them.

-- Wild_Cat
(humming to the tune of "Let Mom Sleep")






Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ?
Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo !
Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/

Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les
nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A
télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
Message no. 7
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
--- Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:

> > Personally, I'd do cyberskates.

> Bad idea IMO. Cyberskates are completely useless (I won't even
> mention the non-retractable ones, which are at best a joke):
> they're expensive, require two cyberlegs (which, given that this
> character concept screams "adept", is already quite bad in itself)
> and don't give you any benefit over regular, rollerblades. Okay,
> you don't need a bag to carry them around when you're not using
them. Big deal, you'll need the bag for your shoes anyway.

My player designed, and I approved, a set of rollerblades/boots that
could (with a Complex Action per boot) be changed from one to the
other. The wheels retracted inside the thick soles of the boots.
They were expensive, but worth it (he worked for a courier service in
Downtown Seattle by day).

======Korishinzo
--yes, cyberskates flat out suck




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 8
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:31:22 -0500
>>
>> <IIRC, rollerblading is a specialization of Athletics.>
>> I hadn't thought of that at the time, though maybe by making it a
>> full-out
>> skill that could help justify using the skill itself for melee
>> attacks?
>>
personally, I'd make using them in a method of attacking more of a
quickness based skill, because, as anyone that rollerblades can tell
you.....strength and body have nothing to do with whether or not you
can stay on your feet when doing tricks (which is essentially all
you're going to be doing by trying to use them to fight) it's all about
balance, which in SR3 I'd equate to quickness, cause if you toss your
leg up to kick someone in the face, it takes a LOT of balance to be
able to keep that.....

I'd also require the character to have at least Athletics
(Rollerblading) at a specialized level of 5 or above before they're
"skilled" enough in the use of rollerblades alone to be able to try to
stop and turn sideways to be able to side kick high enough to get
someone in the chest or face without falling over and taking (wgt/5)M
stun damage

when you go about building this, try to picture what you've got to do
to do the maneuver you want them to be able to do without rollerblades
on.....then add in the 2" of extra height and 4/5 wheels (depending on
the style of skate) and the 1/2" or less contact patch that each of
those wheels has....and try to imagine how much more balance and self
control it'll take to do that....

which also brings to my mind another thought.....modifiers for
different skate types....skate customization, and things of that
nature.....you've got 3 major catagories of skates.....

Aggressive: trick skates, bigger and bulkier, shorter tires (65-70mm
IIRC), spaced differently, and have the widest contact patch of all
blades, are actually capable of standing on their own because wheels
are flat on the bottom for the most part

Recreational: your every day run of the mill rollerblades, 4 wheels
generally sized from 70-75mm in diameter

Speed Skates: these are what most ski teams use to train for the
olympics when they're in a place where actually skiing just isn't
feasible, they've got 5 wheels that generally range from 75-85mm in
diameter and don't have bearings of less than ABEC7 in quality, on
downhill runs with these speed skiers are often able to achieve speeds
equal if not higher than what they are able to on skis which from what
I recall has been reported to be over 65mph

now that the 3 skate catagories have been addressed take into account
this.....Bearings....they are the single most variable thing between
one pair of rollerblades and another, and can easily be changed out by
anyone.....
ABEC1: sealed bearing, not a fast rolling bearing or capable of having
a long "roll out", they're perfect for beginners that are just learning
how to skate

ABEC3: sealed bearing, average speed and average "roll out" they're a
perfect intermediate bearing for the recreational skates

ABEC5: sealed bearing (most often), better than average speed and roll
out, these are the grade of bearing that you'll typically find comes
with Aggressive blades due to their smaller wheel diameter, on
recreational skates these will be "safe" for only experienced skaters
as they offer little to no resistance in their direction of travel
which for beginners is a safety that they learn to lean on until
they're comfortable with what they're doing

ABEC7: semi-sealed bearing, these are high speed bearings that require
lubrication by the skater, faster yet than ABEC5 bearings, these are
what you'll find in speed skates and the like

ABEC9: semi-sealed bearing, even higher speed bearings that also
require lubrication by the skater

**UNRATED BEARINGS**: these are bearing sets that don't fit any of the
ABEC ratings, they're designed for specific roles, some are designed
for speed, some for lower speed but longer "roll out" which is
desirable for someone just trying to get from point A to point B, some
are ceramic bearings, some are titanium, some use graphite lubrication,
some use other forms. An example of these is a bearing set called
"Crap Bearings" they're equivalent to ABEC5 bearings in speed but ABEC9
in their "roll out" therefore allowing good speed and the user to
"coast" long distances once they've reached their speed (personal use
has shown that I can coast about a quarter mile on a set of these with
myself being approx 5'10" and 230lbs on a non-windy day)

the next thing to consider are "bearing keepers" they come in plastic,
aluminum, titanium, and glass, they modify the weight of the blades
negligibly however they each have their own ways in which they effect
the roll of the bearings on the axles.....the bearing keeper is a piece
of hardware that sits inside the wheel, that the axles fit through and
the bearings fit on so that the races on the bearings don't wear from
constant friction with the axle which is non-lubricated
(you can put graphite on the axles and in the bearing keepers before
you insert the axles and no matter what grade of bearings you're
running they'll run faster and longer until the graphite works its way
out of the keeper)
Message no. 9
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:22:38 +0200
According to James Mick, on Tuesday 10 August 2004 13:28 the word on the
street was...

> WEAPON CONCEAL REACH DAMAGE COST S.I.
> Rollerblades 9* 1 (Str +1) Stun 30¥
> .5

Like someone else said, I'd drop the Reach to 0, because only fairly long
weapons have a Reach higher than that. A leg may be longer than an arm,
but not all that much.

> *Really not sure on the concealability, because what are you trying to
> conceal? And for the skill to use them I just made up the skill
> "rollerblading".

Have you taken a look at the chapter on skating in Running Gear?
http://plastic.dumpshock.com/shadowrun/supplements.html -- Phil did, IMHO,
quite a good job at writing up rules for skating in general.

> I figured for actual fighting with them I would have
> her roll twice. One roll for 'blading, and the other for unarmed combat
> if the first roll succeeded. Or do you think just the first roll would
> be sufficient for both as technically you're just trying to trick off
> somebody's face (or various other body parts)?

I'd probably make her make an Unarmed Combat test as usual, but apply a
penalty for being on skates (because that really messes with the way
you're going to move if you hit or miss). A skating test would probably be
a good idea if the attack misses -- or perhaps if it hits instead :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:34:33 -0500
> I'd probably make her make an Unarmed Combat test as usual, but apply a
> penalty for being on skates (because that really messes with the way
> you're going to move if you hit or miss). A skating test would
> probably be
> a good idea if the attack misses -- or perhaps if it hits instead :)
>
I'd agree with this, but make the skating test first, if you fail the
skating test you can't make an unarmed combat roll because you've
already fallen on your.....
Message no. 11
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
> Have you taken a look at the chapter on skating in Running Gear?
> http://plastic.dumpshock.com/shadowrun/supplements.html -- Phil
> did, IMHO, quite a good job at writing up rules for skating in
> general.

This piece was invaluable for the runner/courier in my game. I'll
second the recomendation. :)

> I'd probably make her make an Unarmed Combat test as usual, but
> apply a penalty for being on skates (because that really messes
> with the way you're going to move if you hit or miss). A skating
> test would probably be a good idea if the attack misses -- or
> perhaps if it hits instead :)

I'd demand a skating test any time an attack or counterattack was
attempted, with different modifiers based on hit/miss scenarios. For
example, knowckdown tests are a whole lot more difficult on wheels.
:)

======Korishinzo
--couriers, btw, make ~great~ legwork artists... especially with a
decent decker backing them up



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 12
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
> I'd agree with this, but make the skating test first, if you fail
> the skating test you can't make an unarmed combat roll because
> you've already fallen on your.....

...hoop. ;)

While this might be a way to handle attacks, it shouldn't necessarily
apply to counter-attacks. I would be more inclined to slap TN
modifiers on the attack test, and ask for the skating test after the
attack/counter-attack was resolved. This is primarily for
simplicity, and only makes any sense given the abstraction inherent
in SR combat. Your method is perhaps more realistic, but raises
questions the combat system itself is ill equipped to answer. For
example, suppost the rollerblading attacker is attempting to tackle
the target? Even if they lose their balance in the process, they may
very well crash into the target and take them down, albeit a tad more
painfully for themself. Saying they miss their attempted tackle
because they tripped is not necessarily any more realistic than
letting them kick someone after they trip.

======Korishinzo
--proving yet again that melee combat is oversimplified in SR :)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 13
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:46:49 -0500
> Saying they miss their attempted tackle
> because they tripped is not necessarily any more realistic than
> letting them kick someone after they trip.
>
perhaps, yet perhaps not.....
perhaps they were a klutz and faceplanted infront of the person....I'd
probably put together a "how bad did you fail" type of thing where if
you didn't crit-fail then you may still get your chance but with a
LARGE TN
Message no. 14
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:46:03 +0200
According to Derek Hyde, on Tuesday 10 August 2004 19:34 the word on the
street was...

> I'd agree with this, but make the skating test first, if you fail the
> skating test you can't make an unarmed combat roll because you've
> already fallen on your.....

So the best thing to do, would be to have a Skating test before and after
the attack -- one to see if you can keep on your blades long enough to
make an attack at all, and one to see if you fall on your face after
hitting or missing ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als ik efficiënt wilde zijn dan nam ik om te beginnen niet eens
de moeite om vandaag aanwezig te zijn" --G. de Vader
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:50:32 +0200
According to Ice Heart, on Tuesday 10 August 2004 19:34 the word on the
street was...

> This piece was invaluable for the runner/courier in my game. I'll
> second the recomendation. :)

Someone actually uses it -- great! :)

> I'd demand a skating test any time an attack or counterattack was
> attempted, with different modifiers based on hit/miss scenarios. For
> example, knowckdown tests are a whole lot more difficult on wheels.

IMHO you have to be careful with wanting to put too many tests in. Having
to roll each and every time you make an attack, whether it is to see if
you can attack at all, or if you fall after hitting/missing/whatever,
already makes the whole thing a bit undesirable. And since the idea here
is, as I understand/remember it, to make things interesting to someone
who's not a roleplayer (yet), the drawbacks should be downplayed a bit, I
think.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als ik efficiënt wilde zijn dan nam ik om te beginnen niet eens
de moeite om vandaag aanwezig te zijn" --G. de Vader
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:07:30 -0500
> IMHO you have to be careful with wanting to put too many tests in.
> Having
> to roll each and every time you make an attack, whether it is to see if
> you can attack at all, or if you fall after hitting/missing/whatever,
> already makes the whole thing a bit undesirable. And since the idea
> here
> is, as I understand/remember it, to make things interesting to someone
> who's not a roleplayer (yet), the drawbacks should be downplayed a
> bit, I
> think.
>
this is true.....the "balance tests" could be rolled by the GM and then
applied to the TN that way....
Message no. 17
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > I'd demand a skating test any time an attack or counterattack was
> > attempted, with different modifiers based on hit/miss scenarios.

> IMHO you have to be careful with wanting to put too many tests in.
> Having to roll each and every time you make an attack, whether it
> is to see if you can attack at all, or if you fall after
> hitting/missing/whatever, already makes the whole thing a bit
> undesirable. And since the idea here is, as I understand/remember
> it, to make things interesting to someone who's not a roleplayer
> (yet), the drawbacks should be downplayed a bit, I think.

It is not as bad as it sounds. Since my house rules allow for a
special dodge test using Athletics, people are already often rolling
two sets of dice when attacked. The rollerblading/attacking
combination was handled the same way. Grab dice for the attack test,
and grab dice for the skating test. They should be clearly
different. Roll both and compare to the TN I give you for each one.
Tell me how many successes on each. I then describe the results of
each. Simple, quick, not at all confusing. For a truly brand new
gamer, they have few expectations anyway. They just want to have
fun. The interchange would sound about like this:

Them: I wanna skate toward him fast, and jump to do a kick in the
head.

Me: Okay, from your green dice, grab as many as you have in <insert
melee skill>. Remember combat pool? You grab up to the amount of
green dice you're holding from your red dice. Good. Now, from your
white dice, grab as many as you have in Athletics.

Them: Okay, all set.

Me: (consulting a few charts while I talk) You race toward them,
trying to time your leap just right... flexing your knees and jumping
into the air... the wheels of your blades spinning with an
intimidating hiss as you extend your right leg and tuck your left leg
up to the side... roll the green and red a, rerolling 6's, and tell
me how many 8's you get...

Them: (rattle rattle) I got one.

Me: ...roll your white dice and tell me how many 5's you get.

Them: (rattle rattle) Umm... none.

Me: (consulting my already rolled Dodge/Counter-Attack, Damage
Resistance and knockdown tests) Your kick strikes them a glancing
blow to the temple, sending them spinning away but not down. Coming
down from your jump, you feel a twinge in your knee and it buckles
underneath you... roll those red dice... as many as you have in
Body... and tell me how many 3's you get...

Them: Umm... three of them.

Me: You expertly tuck your shoulder and roll out of the stumble,
sustaining only minor scrapes... Light Stun... regaining your feet
easily. The misstep costs you most of your momentum, and you know
you are still in reach of the ganger. Good thing you dazed him,
because he looks pretty angry to you.

Even a complete beginner can follow that, picture what is vital in
that, and (if they are at all into the mood of the game) enjoy that.

With more experienced players, the dialogue gets heavier on flavor,
and lighter on game-mechanics hand-holkding, but the exchange remains
in essence the same. Fairly simple, provided I don't get too bogged
down in the numbers.

======Korishinzo
--paraphrasing an actual excerpt from my table top game... :>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 18
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:59:49 +0200
From: "Ice Heart" <korishinzo@*****.com>
>
> My player designed, and I approved, a set of rollerblades/boots that
> could (with a Complex Action per boot) be changed from one to the
> other. The wheels retracted inside the thick soles of the boots.

They have those down my lokal Aldi supermarket, so there is nothing new
about that.

> They were expensive, but worth it (he worked for a courier service in
> Downtown Seattle by day).

In today's prices they are DKK 499.00, which is equal to $80, and since
todays $1 = 1¥ in 2064, the skateboots should really only cost ¥80.

Lars
Message no. 19
From: james@****.uow.edu.au (James Niall Zealey)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:06:46 +1000
> Ice Heart <korishinzo@*****.com>
>
>
>>IMHO you have to be careful with wanting to put too many tests in.
>>Having to roll each and every time you make an attack, whether it
>>is to see if you can attack at all, or if you fall after
>>hitting/missing/whatever, already makes the whole thing a bit
>>undesirable. And since the idea here is, as I understand/remember
>>it, to make things interesting to someone who's not a roleplayer
>>(yet), the drawbacks should be downplayed a bit, I think.
>
>
> It is not as bad as it sounds. Since my house rules allow for a
> special dodge test using Athletics, people are already often rolling
> two sets of dice when attacked.
> With more experienced players, the dialogue gets heavier on flavor,
> and lighter on game-mechanics hand-holkding, but the exchange remains
> in essence the same. Fairly simple, provided I don't get too bogged
> down in the numbers.
>

I'd be another one to second the "less tests, more tactics".
Additionally, who the hell would ever use a combat style which gives you
a very, very minor benefit (increase in running speed) and a very, very
major drawback (For half of a combat, you're lying around on your arse)?

My suggestion? Use 'skating' or 'athletics(skating)' as a limiting skill
for armed/unarmed combat.

ie - you cannot use more dice in an attack than you have in your skating
skill.

Less rolling, still has the desired effect (rollercombat is not for
everyone), and allows people to use an unusual combat style without fear
of being ineffective.
Message no. 20
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:53:35 +0200
According to Derek Hyde, on Tuesday 10 August 2004 20:07 the word on the
street was...

> this is true.....the "balance tests" could be rolled by the GM and then
> applied to the TN that way....

A problem I see with that is that it takes the feeling of control away form
the player, for an action that they clearly have control over. I roll
plenty of Intelligence and Stealth tests for the players behind the GM
screen, because the characters won't know how well they're doing at these
sorts of things. But keeping your balance has an immediate and obvious
result if you fail :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als ik efficiënt wilde zijn dan nam ik om te beginnen niet eens
de moeite om vandaag aanwezig te zijn" --G. de Vader
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:54:38 +0200
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Tuesday 10 August 2004 22:59 the word
on the street was...

> In today's prices they are DKK 499.00, which is equal to $80, and since
> todays $1 = 1¥ in 2064, the skateboots should really only cost ¥80.

Don't forget to mention that Aldi isn't exactly the world's most expensive
supermarket, so if you wanted to buy similar boots at a sports goods
store, you'd probably pay twice that :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als ik efficiënt wilde zijn dan nam ik om te beginnen niet eens
de moeite om vandaag aanwezig te zijn" --G. de Vader
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:58:01 +0200
According to James Niall Zealey, on Wednesday 11 August 2004 01:06 the word
on the street was...

> I'd be another one to second the "less tests, more tactics".

Tests can be part of tactics, though :)

> Additionally, who the hell would ever use a combat style which gives you
> a very, very minor benefit (increase in running speed) and a very, very
> major drawback (For half of a combat, you're lying around on your arse)?

My point exactly. OTOH, if you use something for a purpose for which it
isn't designed, you'll probably encounter some drawbacks -- rollerblades
are meant as a faster/easier method of travel than walking, not as
something to use in combat. So if you wear rollerblades in combat, you may
want to expect some problems :)

> ie - you cannot use more dice in an attack than you have in your skating
> skill.

Good idea.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als ik efficiënt wilde zijn dan nam ik om te beginnen niet eens
de moeite om vandaag aanwezig te zijn" --G. de Vader
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 23
From: sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:59:34 -0400
<Have her take a decent Athletics skill and specialize in Rollerblades.
Have her take the Capoera martial art, and specialize in kick attack.>

While this is a good idea, and makes sense using the extended unarmed combat
rules, I've recently done in with using those in play because while I like
the flavor and variety they give as well as being a bit more realistic in
terms of an unarmed attack - unfortunately they've been bogging the hell out
of my games.

Just my .02¥
The Mad Kilted Cyberzombie GM

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
Message no. 24
From: d_hyde@***.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:14:43 -0500
> While this is a good idea, and makes sense using the extended unarmed
> combat rules, I've recently done in with using those in play because
> while I like the flavor and variety they give as well as being a bit
> more realistic in terms of an unarmed attack - unfortunately they've
> been bogging the hell out of my games.
>

out of curiosity, which extended unarmed combat rules are you referring
to?
Message no. 25
From: sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:22:52 -0400
<>While this is a good idea, and makes sense using the extended unarmed
combat rules, I've recently >done in with using those in play because while
I like the flavor and variety they give as well as being a >bit more
realistic in terms of an unarmed attack - unfortunately they've been bogging
the hell out of >my games.


out of curiosity, which extended unarmed combat rules are you referring to?>


The ones in the Cannon Companion. Excellent rules, but they just slow down
gameplay too much with my group. It's a damn shame too because I was really
looking forward to the different methods different players would come up
with.

Just my .02¥
The Mad Kilted Cyberzombie GM

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid963
Message no. 26
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:32:47 +0200 (CEST)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> a écrit :
> My point exactly. OTOH, if you use something for a
> purpose for which it
> isn't designed, you'll probably encounter some
> drawbacks -- rollerblades
> are meant as a faster/easier method of travel than
> walking, not as
> something to use in combat. So if you wear
> rollerblades in combat, you may
> want to expect some problems :)
>
> > ie - you cannot use more dice in an attack than
> you have in your skating
> > skill.
>
> Good idea.


Another possibility is to give her a balance augmenter
earware implant or adept power (add a balance tail if
you *really* want overkill) and drop the extra
tests/limitations entirely as long as she does not get
hit (in which case a knockdown test at +2 TN seems the
right thing to do).

In that particular case, you shouldn't care about
realism that much. This isn't gonna ruin the game
balance, so do whatever is fun.

-- Wild_Cat






Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ?
Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo !
Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/

Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les
nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A
télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
Message no. 27
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
> I'd be another one to second the "less tests, more tactics".
> Additionally, who the hell would ever use a combat style which
> gives you a very, very minor benefit (increase in running speed)
> and a very, very major drawback (For half of a combat, you're lying
> around on your arse)?

Okay, I am going to address these as seperate points.

1. Less tests, more tactics:

Dice are part of tactics. They represent the chance of
success/failure, the random element, statistics... they allow the
players to decide, in an abstract fashion, the relative feasibility
of their planned action. TN modifiers and size of dice pool are how
one simulates with game mechanics the instinctive feel a trained
combatant has for what will and will not work. The actual fall of
the dice are how one simulates the chaos and tension of combat.
Adding one dice roll to test for balance after an attack or
counter-attack is hardly a contravention of tactics in favor of
tests. With that logic, one should not bother calling for a Crash
Test from a rigger when driving in combat.

2. small advantage/big disadvantage

First of all, higher movement in combat is not a small advantage.
Covering ground quickly is a HUGE benefit. Secondly, the sheer
"cool" factor is an advantage to many roleplayers. On average, the
runner/courier in my game suffered knockdown about once per combat,
and sometimes as many as 3 or 4 Light stun wounds. OTOH, the high
speed flying side kick attack from the opponents blind side that the
player choreographed with the team's other melee fighter proved
devastating to all but the toughest opponents. Spend one pass in a
flanking maneuver, and one laying a rollerblade into the side of
someone's neck... and a few free actions to "high five" the decoy
fighter after the opponent drops like the flavor of last week in
American pop culture. :>

Unless the TN is outrageous, due to player foolishness or a very bad
scenario, the character was usually a very successful hit-and-run
melee fighter. Devastating even. And with very minimal effect on
the speed of combat resolution.

> My suggestion? Use 'skating' or 'athletics(skating)' as a limiting
> skill for armed/unarmed combat.
> ie - you cannot use more dice in an attack than you have in your
> skating
> skill.
> Less rolling, still has the desired effect (rollercombat is not for
> everyone), and allows people to use an unusual combat style without
> fear of being ineffective.

Not a bad suggestion at all. Sounds like a decent alternative to my
system.

======Korishinzo
--So, how do you feel about tactics tests? :p




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message no. 28
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > In today's prices they are DKK 499.00, which is equal to $80, and
> > since todays $1 = 1¥ in 2064, the skateboots should really only
> > cost ¥80.

> Don't forget to mention that Aldi isn't exactly the world's most
> expensive supermarket, so if you wanted to buy similar boots at a
> sports goods store, you'd probably pay twice that :)

Okay...

Skate/boot combo: ¥50
Two-state memory padding: ¥100 *
"Smart" wheels: ¥400 **
"Smart" axle mounts: ¥100 ***
Melee hardened materials: x2 (always a good idea)
Wireless cyber interface: ¥100 ****
Total cost of blades: ¥1,400

Being able to rollerblade over assorted terrain and fight with
rollerblades on: priceless :p

* The padding in the boots had a flexible state that made for
comfortable walking when in "boot" mode, and a more rigid support
state when in "skate" mode.

** The wheels continually sense and respond to the surface they are
in contact with, providing near-instantaneous adjustments of up to 2
cm to allow easy traverse of gravel, cracks, and other obstacles.
Dikoted (TM) bearings further enhance performance.

[yes, somewhat ripping off Snowcrash with these :) ]

*** The same sensor system in the nanotech wheel surfaces is
integrated in the wheel mounts, allowing a further 2 cm range of
fluxuation. With 2cm of gross movement absorbtion, and 2 cm of
precicion movement absorbtion, the blades can traverse even unpaved
roads with full performance (albiet diminished speed).

**** Helmet with datajack interface and dedicated wireless channel
allows wearer to communicate with command chip in boots. Changing
modes and checking diagnostics becomes nearly as fast as cybernetic
command. Alternate configurations support standard and induction
datajack implants in the wearer's ankles (or cyberlegs), coming one
step closer to DNI with boots. For the cyberphobe, boots can be
manually controlled from durable panel on inside ankle of each
(requiring a simple action per boot). Using a datajack and the
wireless channel, the boots could be controlled with a simple action
for both. Using a dedicated datajack in the ankle/cyberleg, the
boots can be controlled with a Free Action for both.

Replacment wheels cost ¥50.

======Korishinzo
--fun with equipment




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Rollerbladin' Shadowrunners, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.