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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (lpvoid)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Fri Feb 9 13:15:01 2001
Why are spells called spells? I mean, is there a connection between the
phonetic sound of the term Rote and the the term spell for well, umm, that
neato letter/word combination thingy they make you learn in grade school?

What do you guys think?
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 02:30:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: lpvoid <lpvoid@********.rr.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 5:19 AM
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?


>Why are spells called spells? I mean, is there a connection between the
>phonetic sound of the term Rote and the the term spell for well, umm, that
>neato letter/word combination thingy they make you learn in grade school?
>
>What do you guys think?
>


Hey, very lateral of you. I have no idea, but now I really want to know.
Spell can also mean a short period of time, as in "Just let me sit for a
spell", but it might have to do with writing incantations or runes. Chances
are it is a bastardisation of a word from another language. In case you
don't know, the word 'magic' comes from an ancient secret society, based in
Persia or thereabouts called the Magi, Abra Cadabra is a bastardisation of
something in Arabic, I think it means "Let it be so" but don't quote me, and
'wizard' most likely comes from the word Wise.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arcaist)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 08:20:00 2001
From: "lpvoid"
> Why are spells called spells?

Ok, let's see how it's done in German : )
The word for spell is "Spruch" (or "Zauberspruch", "magic
spell"). "Spruch" is derived from "aussprechen" (to
pronounce) - you also say "einen Zauber sprechen" for
casting a spell, and that would translate to something like
"to [correctly] pronouce a spell"...

So, I'd say it all depends on how you pronounce that "Klatu!
Verata! *cough*! *cough*!" ; )

--
Arcaist )( www.saeder-krupp.de
Qui tacet, consentire videtur.
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (lpvoid)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 08:25:06 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?


> Hey, very lateral of you. I have no idea, but now I really want to know.
> Spell can also mean a short period of time, as in "Just let me sit for a
> spell", but it might have to do with writing incantations or runes.
Chances
> are it is a bastardisation of a word from another language. In case you
> don't know, the word 'magic' comes from an ancient secret society, based
in
> Persia or thereabouts called the Magi, Abra Cadabra is a bastardisation of
> something in Arabic, I think it means "Let it be so" but don't quote me,
and
> 'wizard' most likely comes from the word Wise.
>
I was beginning to think my quesion was dumb or that no one else shared my
curiosity. I had heard about the Magi and Abra Cadabra words, thank you for
reminding me. And what about the seemingly standard closing to a spell "so
mote it be". It means Amen - and Christians still use it in some of their
prayers. So when we pray (for those of us that worship) are we casting a
spell?

lpvoid
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (TexasFriedCriminal)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 08:50:01 2001
From:I pvoid
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 2:30 PM

> I was beginning to think my quesion was dumb or that no one else shared my
> curiosity. I had heard about the Magi and Abra Cadabra words,
> thank you for
> reminding me. And what about the seemingly standard closing to a
> spell "so
> mote it be". It means Amen - and Christians still use it in some of their
> prayers. So when we pray (for those of us that worship) are we casting a
> spell?

aactually yes, a difference between magic and religion was not until the
monotheistic religions came along, who were in desperate need of an evil
counterpart to the primary deity (thus, shouldn't they be called diatheism?
;)).
and when you look at what a prayer is supposed to do, i.e. make something
happen by begging to god/allah/whomever that it may be done, you see the
similarity.
I'd advise anyone interested in that to read through the first half of Anton
Szandor LaVey's The Black Bible, which offers some interresting thought on
just that.

-- ^/_Texas - Fried - Criminal_\^ -- ((www.neosophia.exit.de))

"It costs me never a stab nor squirm
To tread by chance upon a worm.
'Aha, my little dear,' I say,
'Your clan will pay me back one day.'"
Dorothy Parker
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 09:05:01 2001
In a message dated 2/10/01 8:27:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
lpvoid@********.rr.com writes:

> And what about the seemingly standard closing to a spell "so
> mote it be". It means Amen - and Christians still use it in some of their
> prayers. So when we pray (for those of us that worship) are we casting a
> spell?

Sort of. A lot of Christianity's forms were taken from Greek Mystery
cults, which, among other things, believed in magic...After THAT, we have the
flamewar-inducing question of whether or not a priest casts a shapeshift
spell or something during transubstantiation.

John
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan Kelley)
Subject: rote-wrote-spell
Date: Sat Feb 10 15:15:01 2001
Actually I beleive Klatu Verata Nictu was in Army of
Darkness. And yes it has alot of spoofs in it. I think
the common ending kinda opens it up to more in the
series even though I don't think that Sam Raime will
ever produce any more. The Director's Cut the ending
ended the series outright by him returning to a dead
world....he slept too long he took too many drops of
the special sleep potion. But the common ending is a
little more like the rest of the movie though.

Jon
Insanity is Bliss

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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 16:15:01 2001
On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:29 +1100 "Simon and Fiona"
<sfuller@******.com.au> writes:
<SNIP>
> and
> 'wizard' most likely comes from the word Wise.

I would think it was derived from Vizier ...

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Achille Autran)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 10 18:45:10 2001
>From: "Arcaist" <arcaist@************.de>
>
>From: "lpvoid"
> > Why are spells called spells?
>
>Ok, let's see how it's done in German : )
>The word for spell is "Spruch" (or "Zauberspruch", "magic
>spell"). "Spruch" is derived from "aussprechen" (to
>pronounce) - you also say "einen Zauber sprechen" for
>casting a spell, and that would translate to something like
>"to [correctly] pronouce a spell"...

So, a spell is a spell because a spell is spelt ? Gotta love recursive
acronyms !

Well another one:

Back in 1066, when William the 1st grabbed the throne of England, his first
words were: "On s'pèle ! C'est magie du démon que pareille froidure
!" in
his native language, that is, French. (Conquerors were never good at
getting local habits. They were, however, quite swift at putting an healthy
dose of metal in the poor servants who happened to speak English. Hence the
entry of french words like "beef" (boeuf) or "pork" in the old saxon
language). So, the above phrase, which meant "We're freezing ! Such a cold
is devil's magic !", was taken as "A spell ! Demon's magic !", and carefull

servants faithfully repeated "Indeed my lord, a spell." And "spell"
was in
the english language...

Seriously, if someone has a good ethymological dictionnary, I would also
like an answer.

Molloy
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Guido the Enforcer)
Subject: rote-wrote-spell
Date: Sat Feb 10 21:05:01 2001
From: Jonathan Kelley <darknessintheshade@*****.com>
> Actually I beleive Klatu Verata Nictu was in Army of
> Darkness. And yes it has alot of spoofs in it. I think
> the common ending kinda opens it up to more in the
> series even though I don't think that Sam Raime will
> ever produce any more. The Director's Cut the ending
> ended the series outright by him returning to a dead
> world....he slept too long he took too many drops of
> the special sleep potion. But the common ending is a
> little more like the rest of the movie though.

Klatu Verata Nictu comes from the old SciFi Classic "The Day the Earth Stood
Still (which was already mentioned)." Rami "borrowed" the phrase as an
inside joke, he talks about it in the Director's commentary on the
Director's Cut DVD. As for producing more, he had a hard enough time
convincing the studio to let him do Evil Dead III, I doubt there will be a
IV for that reason alone.

Great cult film, lousy box office record.



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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: rote-wrote-spell
Date: Sat Feb 10 21:35:16 2001
> Klatu Verata Nictu comes from the old SciFi Classic "The Day the
Earth Stood Still (which was already mentioned)." Rami "borrowed"
the phrase as an inside joke, he talks about it in the Director's
commentary on the Director's Cut DVD. As for producing more, he had
a hard enough time convincing the studio to let him do Evil Dead III,
I doubt there will be a IV for that reason alone.
> Great cult film, lousy box office record.

For folks who can't get enough Evil Dead, there's a video game too,
though who knows how good that is. Oh, and an Ash figurine from
McFarlane Toys (comes with a little Necronomicon, plus tiny Ash w/fork).

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Strago)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sun Feb 11 17:20:00 2001
DemonPenta@***.com wrote:

> <SNIP>

> Sort of. A lot of Christianity's forms were taken from Greek Mystery
> cults, which, among other things, believed in magic...After THAT, we have the
> flamewar-inducing question of whether or not a priest casts a shapeshift
> spell or something during transubstantiation.
>

AAAAH!!!! Though I have to wonder if the ratio of Catholic:Non-Catholic Christian
listmembers would be sufficient to warrent such a discussion, and how long it
would take for Dvixen to shut it down.

*Strago dons the clothing of a Vegas showgirl. "Place your bets. Place your bets,
ladies and gentlemen.*

>
> John

--
--Strago

All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine

Down with the Moral Majority
-Green Day
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 00:50:03 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?


>On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:29 +1100 "Simon and Fiona"
><sfuller@******.com.au> writes:
><SNIP>
>> and
>> 'wizard' most likely comes from the word Wise.
>
>I would think it was derived from Vizier ...
>
Probably Vizier also comes from the root word for Wise, as does Witch. Those
Saxons/Germans made their words really work.
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Versfeld)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 02:00:02 2001
Simon and Fiona wrote:

>
> Hey, very lateral of you. I have no idea, but now I really want to know.
> Spell can also mean a short period of time, as in "Just let me sit for a
> spell", but it might have to do with writing incantations or runes. Chances
> are it is a bastardisation of a word from another language. In case you
> don't know, the word 'magic' comes from an ancient secret society, based in
> Persia or thereabouts called the Magi, Abra Cadabra is a bastardisation of
> something in Arabic, I think it means "Let it be so" but don't quote me,
and
> 'wizard' most likely comes from the word Wise.

I can't comment on the other words, but 'Wizard' is a corruption of the
ancient term 'Wyzars' which means 'One who, at end, is wise'




spot the reference :)

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.za.net

QVANTI CANICVLA ILLE IN FENESTRA


(spot the other reference :)
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 02:50:01 2001
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:59:51 +0200 Allen Versfeld <moe@*******.com>
writes:
> Simon and Fiona wrote:
<SNIP>
> I can't comment on the other words, but 'Wizard' is a corruption of
> the
> ancient term 'Wyzars' which means 'One who, at end, is wise'

You mean all those spell slingers are just a bunch of wise asses?

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Versfeld)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 03:00:03 2001
Alfredo B Alves wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:59:51 +0200 Allen Versfeld <moe@*******.com>
> writes:
>
>> Simon and Fiona wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> I can't comment on the other words, but 'Wizard' is a corruption of
>> the
>> ancient term 'Wyzars' which means 'One who, at end, is wise'
>
>
> You mean all those spell slingers are just a bunch of wise asses?

:)

*still waiting for somebody to identify the reference*
--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.za.net

QVANTI CANICVLA ILLE IN FENESTRA
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 06:05:02 2001
According to Allen Versfeld, on Mon, 12 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> *still waiting for somebody to identify the reference*

Unless I'm mistaken, it's a Discworld novel that you stole that from. Can't
remember the exact one, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 06:10:01 2001
From: Allen Versfeld

> I can't comment on the other words, but 'Wizard' is a
> corruption of the ancient term 'Wyzars' which means
> 'One who, at end, is wise'

> spot the reference :)

This sounds like Pratchett, but I wouldn't be able to
tell you in which book this appears.

Martin
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 06:20:01 2001
From: lpvoid

> Why are spells called spells?

<ctrl c>
Spell: AS. spell a saying, tale, speech; akin to OS. & OHG. spel,
Icel. spjall,Goth. spill
</ctrl c>

So it's something spoken in a fixed way (not necessarily magical).
The Dutch word for spell, spreuk, also means the same.

Martin
- Quiver mortals, I can casts spells:
"Better one bird in the hand than ten in the air" -
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 06:35:01 2001
From: Simon and Fiona

> Probably Vizier also comes from the root word for
> Wise, as does Witch. Those Saxons/Germans made their
> words really work.

Vizier and wizard come from two completely different language
groups. So while you're right that the Germanic languages
made their roots really work, they didn't send them over on
extensive study trips to the middle east :).
Vizier is based on the Arabic word wazr, which means minister.
The word wazr is from the root wazara which means to carry or
to bear.
You were right the first time with the wizard, it's a
combination of Wise and -ard. And the word is from old French
but has a Germanic root. Wise still has the same meaning, -ard
means "very good" (also as in drunkard, some one who is very
good at being drunk).

And no, I didn't know this, I looked it up :).

Martin
- Researchard :) -
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Versfeld)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Mon Feb 12 09:20:01 2001
Gurth wrote:

> According to Allen Versfeld, on Mon, 12 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...
>
>
>> *still waiting for somebody to identify the reference*
>
>
> Unless I'm mistaken, it's a Discworld novel that you stole that from. Can't
> remember the exact one, though.

yup. It's one of the older ones, but I don't remember which one either.

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.za.net

QVANTI CANICVLA ILLE IN FENESTRA
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (lpvoid)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 17 15:55:01 2001
From: Martin Steffens


> > Why are spells called spells?
>
> <ctrl c>
> Spell: AS. spell a saying, tale, speech; akin to OS. & OHG. spel,
> Icel. spjall,Goth. spill
> </ctrl c>
>
> So it's something spoken in a fixed way (not necessarily magical).
> The Dutch word for spell, spreuk, also means the same.

Spell also is a reference to time, at least in its southern (American) slang
version. Thank you for the definition though.

> You were right the first time with the wizard, it's a
> combination of Wise and -ard. And the word is from old French
> but has a Germanic root. Wise still has the same meaning, -ard
> means "very good" (also as in drunkard, some one who is very
> good at being drunk).

What about retard? :)

lpvoid
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 17 17:05:02 2001
From: lpvoid

> What about retard? :)

Different root, retard is from the Latin retardare, meaning "to delay"
So it's not someone being very good at being ret :)

Martin
- mallard : a duck that's very good at being male -
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (lpvoid)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sat Feb 17 19:10:01 2001
From: Martin Steffens

> Different root, retard is from the Latin retardare, meaning "to delay"
> So it's not someone being very good at being ret :)

hehehe

> - mallard : a duck that's very good at being male -

Wouldn't it be a building being very good at being a mall?

lpvoid

- placard : a piece of steel that's very good at protecting thine belly?
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (frédéric belly)
Subject: Rote - Wrote - Spell ?
Date: Sun Feb 18 08:40:00 2001
And retard is also a french word what seems "late"...

Krug - frog shaman

2001 22:03:52 -0000
>
>From: lpvoid
>
> > What about retard? :)
>
>Different root, retard is from the Latin retardare, meaning "to delay"
>So it's not someone being very good at being ret :)
>
>Martin
>- mallard : a duck that's very good at being male -
>
>
>

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