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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 5 13:15:01 2002
>From: Steven Hadfield>Subject: Re: RPG movies (was [OT] Legend)

>It's a series not a movie, but has anyone seen La
>Femme Nikita? The teams in that always struck me as
>what SR teams should be - Organised!

>Steve

*sigh* you young people :)

La Femme Nikita was a movie long before it was a television series, and a
book long before it was a movie. The movie "Point of No Return" was a very
Holywood take on La Femme Nikita. Personally, I like the loner street
sam/wold shaman image of the main character in "The Professional". That
actor is basically reprising his role from La Femme Nikita. And Natalie
Portman is far better in The Professional than she has been to date under
Lucas' direction. :)

I know someone mentioned these already, but I require my players to watch
Sneakers and Ronin before starting most SR games. Both are excellent movies
about planning and executing missions as a team...and about coping when
things go wrong.

Korishinzo
--I saw that crack about getting me SR3 books in cuneiform...do you really
have to get them in such a contemporary printing...I prefer something a
little more vintage ;P

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: RPG Movies
Date: Thu Jun 6 23:45:01 2002
Here's another one I just thought of, and not necessarily because of any kind
of Shadowrun angle. Roadhouse. Perfect example of a nightclub, how it gets
run, and the basic mentality of a good bouncer. If this isn't enough
incentive, you might also watch the fight scenes for physad ideas. I wonder
how much it would cost to learn that nifty rip-out-the-bad-guys-throat
maneuver?
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Sun Jun 9 17:25:01 2002
>From: Gurth

>According to Steven Hadfield

> > It's a series not a movie, but has anyone seen La
> > Femme Nikita? The teams in that always struck me as
> > what SR teams should be - Organised!

>"Nikita" is originally a French movie (the American title is "La Femme
>Nikita") and remade as "The Assassin" (with Bridget Fonda) in the US.
>The
>series came after both movies. IMHO the original is the better of >the two,
>and I can't say I like the series much.

"La Femme Nikita" as I saw it was a wonderful subtitled movie in French,
though it may have also been released as simply "Nikita". Gurth seems to
know an aweful lot about many things, so I try not to question him. ;)
However, the Bridget Fonda movie was called "Point of No Return". Unless
films get different release titles in different countries. Anyone?

>I don't think "Leon" was mentioned, BTW. (I thought of this one now
> >because it was made by the same director as "Nikita" and I've heard
>that
>it's supposed to be a sequel, in a way.)

"The Professional", by the same director as "La Femme Nikita", about a
man
named Leon. And yes, supposedly something of a sequal. Another movie
renamed when released in different countries, perhaps? *shrug*

Any number of TV series can be applied to gaming, like "Total Recall 2020",
"Dark Angel", "The Pretender", and... hmmm, I am drawing a blank on
the name
of the series I was thinking of...college student who is an undercover agent
of some sort, carrying out missions all over the world...sort of a Dark
Angel knock off. Oh well.

Korishinzo
--spending too much time on email to watch TV :)

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Peter Kristiansen)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Sun Jun 9 17:35:01 2002
> However, the Bridget Fonda movie was called "Point of No Return".
Unless
> films get different release titles in different countries. Anyone?
>

It did, according to imdb.com it is both the "original" titel in
Australia, Belgium and as far as
I can see England as well as the video title in USA.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0107843

Peter
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Sun Jun 9 17:45:01 2002
On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Ice Heart wrote:

> "Dark Angel", "The Pretender", and... hmmm, I am drawing a blank
on the name
> of the series I was thinking of...college student who is an undercover agent
> of some sort, carrying out missions all over the world...sort of a Dark
> Angel knock off. Oh well.
>

Its Called "Alias" I believe. I did a quick google search, and this is
the first link that came up:
http://www.alias-tv.com/home.html


--
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talk show. They're Shadowrunners!"
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 00:35:01 2002
<snipt!(TM)>
> "La Femme Nikita" as I saw it was a wonderful
subtitled movie in French, though it may have also
been released as simply "Nikita". Gurth seems to know
an aweful lot about many things, so I try not to
question him. ;) However, the Bridget Fonda movie
was called "Point of No Return". Unless films get
different release titles in different countries.
Anyone?

Quite often they do. You Yanks are challenged,
apparently.

;)

Point of No Return/The Assassin is one example. Harry
Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was renamed as
Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone in America. As
you discussed below (and I snipped), and other people
mentioned, Leon/The Professional is another such
movie. Another possibility is one that I saw
advertised online (on American websites) as Saving
Silverman, but which was released as Evil Woman over
here. To be perfectly honest with this one, though, I
don't know if the name was changed everywhere or just
outside the US. There are other examples, though -
just can't think of them off-hand. :)

> Any number of TV series can be applied to gaming,
like "Total Recall 2020", "Dark Angel", "The
Pretender", and... hmmm, I am drawing a blank on the
name of the series I was thinking of...college student
who is an undercover agent of some sort, carrying out
missions all over the world...sort of a Dark Angel
knock off. Oh well.
> Korishinzo

That's a joke, right? Right, Kori? Right???

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 05:30:01 2002
According to Ice Heart, on Sun, 09 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> "La Femme Nikita" as I saw it was a wonderful subtitled movie in French,
> though it may have also been released as simply "Nikita". Gurth seems to
> know an aweful lot about many things, so I try not to question him. ;)

Good, that's the way I like things to work ;)

> However, the Bridget Fonda movie was called "Point of No Return". Unless
> films get different release titles in different countries. Anyone?

They do: as already mentioned, PONR was called "The Assassin" here. This is
about as confusing as the early '90s gangster movie variously titled
Mobsters, The Evil Empire, or Mobsters: The Evil Empire, depending on which
country you're in...

> "The Professional", by the same director as "La Femme Nikita",
about a
> man named Leon. And yes, supposedly something of a sequal. Another
> movie renamed when released in different countries, perhaps? *shrug*

Yep, it's called "Leon" over here.

> Any number of TV series can be applied to gaming, like "Total Recall
> 2020", "Dark Angel", "The Pretender", and... hmmm, I am
drawing a blank
> on the name of the series I was thinking of...college student who is an
> undercover agent of some sort, carrying out missions all over the
> world...sort of a Dark Angel knock off. Oh well.

"Once A Thief"? I seem to remember that being a TV show that I've seen a
few bits of, but didn't find interesting enough to watch all the way
through :)

Another movie I thought of, which IIRC also hasn't been mentioned yet, is
one whose title I also can't think of but which also starred Bridget Fonda,
as some kind of VR game designer. I think it was directed by David
Cronenberg, and the title of the movie was the title of the game in the
movie. Because of the VR aspect, the use for SR is obvious, I expect.

> --spending too much time on email to watch TV :)

Put your TV next to your computer :)

--
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Little ever changes, if anything at all
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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (riffraff)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 07:35:01 2002
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:30:42 +0200

>
>Another movie I thought of, which IIRC also hasn't been mentioned yet, is
>one whose title I also can't think of but which also starred Bridget Fonda,
>as some kind of VR game designer. I think it was directed by David
>Cronenberg, and the title of the movie was the title of the game in the
>movie. Because of the VR aspect, the use for SR is obvious, I expect.
>
VR5, with Lori Singer, I believe...
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 09:00:01 2002
ra002585@***.unicamp.br
>
> >
> >Another movie I thought of, which IIRC also hasn't been mentioned yet, is
> >one whose title I also can't think of but which also starred Bridget Fonda,
> >as some kind of VR game designer. I think it was directed by David
> >Cronenberg, and the title of the movie was the title of the game in the
> >movie. Because of the VR aspect, the use for SR is obvious, I expect.
> >
> VR5, with Lori Singer, I believe...

No, that would be "ExistenZ" :);


--
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http://www.shadowland.com.br
-- Redator da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
ICQ # 4055455
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 12:30:00 2002
> Put your TV next to your computer :)

OR put a TV Tuner Card in your computer so you can watch TV ON your
computer while doing e-mail and other things
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Mon Jun 10 13:55:01 2002
According to Bira, on Mon, 10 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> No, that would be "ExistenZ" :);

_That_ was it, yeah. I remember now you mention it :) GMs who want to mess
with players' minds using simsense would do well to watch it, but it's best
not to mention the movie's end on the list (at least not without using
spoiler space) as that would kind of spoil it.

Any Star Trek episode set mainly on the holodeck would also be decent
source material for virtual reality in SR, BTW.

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 03:50:01 2002
<<Knows better than to start at the top but isn't quoting anything
so....>>

speaking of great SR movies, have any of you looked at the trailers for
the movie called Reign of Fire? This looks to be the best SR type movie
that's been made so far, brief synopsis: kid in London wanders into a
cave, wakes up a dragon that's been sleeping for thousands of years,
dragons all over the world wake up and proceed to try to wipe out all of
humanity, humanity fights back and tries to wipe out dragons......

The dragons in the movie look to be done BETTER than the ones in D&D and
those were all really good quality and we all know it.....

Derek
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 04:50:01 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
>Another movie I thought of, which IIRC also hasn't been mentioned yet, is
>one whose title I also can't think of but which also starred Bridget Fonda,
>as some kind of VR game designer. I think it was directed by David
>Cronenberg, and the title of the movie was the title of the game in the
>movie. Because of the VR aspect, the use for SR is obvious, I expect.

It's probably not the one you're thinking of but I just had a similar one
pop into my head, David Cronenburg, Jennifer Jason Leigh and Jude Law:
Bioware cyberdecks and a neat "which bit's real?" Shtick.
"eXistenZ"

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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 04:55:02 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > No, that would be "ExistenZ" :);
>
>_That_ was it, yeah. I remember now you mention it :) GMs who want to mess
>with players' minds using simsense would do well to watch it, but it's best
>not to mention the movie's end on the list (at least not without using
>spoiler space) as that would kind of spoil it.

If it is "eXistenZ" you're thinking of then I'm dissapointed, confusing
Jennifer Jason Leigh and Bridget Fonda; How???

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Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 05:55:03 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Tue, 11 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> speaking of great SR movies, have any of you looked at the trailers for
> the movie called Reign of Fire? This looks to be the best SR type movie
> that's been made so far brief synopsis: kid in London wanders into a
> cave, wakes up a dragon that's been sleeping for thousands of years,
> dragons all over the world wake up and proceed to try to wipe out all of
> humanity, humanity fights back and tries to wipe out dragons......

Ah, so that's what it's about... I only saw half of a small preview on some
movie show on TV (Talking Movies on BBC World, I think, but that doesn't
really matter, does it? :) and didn't understand why there were dragons in
a modern/SF type of setting. It did look interesting from an SR POV, though.

> The dragons in the movie look to be done BETTER than the ones in D&D and
> those were all really good quality and we all know it.....

I wouldn't -- I avoided seeing that movie because of the few bits I saw of
it on TV :)

--
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Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 05:55:10 2002
According to Lone Eagle, on Tue, 11 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> If it is "eXistenZ" you're thinking of then I'm dissapointed, confusing
> Jennifer Jason Leigh and Bridget Fonda; How???

Two blonde American actresses of about the same age; how can you not
confuse them? :)

--
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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 06:15:01 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > If it is "eXistenZ" you're thinking of then I'm dissapointed,
confusing
> > Jennifer Jason Leigh and Bridget Fonda; How???
>
>Two blonde American actresses of about the same age; how can you not
>confuse them? :)

Well...

a: the films they've worked one are (to my knowledge) very different in
feel, Bridget Fonda is the bad girl of generic Hollywood movies (well one of
them anyway) while JJ Leigh is just a bad girl full stop.

b: JJ Leigh is quite a bit older. And...

(those easily offended should look away now)

<engage crude mode>

c: Their tits are different sizes for a start! ;-)

<disengage crude mode>

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Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 20:10:01 2002
> I wouldn't -- I avoided seeing that movie because of the few bits I
saw of
> it on TV :)

*produces a carp* you may wanna rent D&D just so you can feel as the
rest of us do, IMHO the movie wasn't THAT terrible, the ending sucked
but then again if you watch it on DVD you can go back and watch the
original ending that got replaced. The FX were done fairly well
considering they were ATTEMPTING to stay somewhat close to the
game......(the ending was the only part I thought was all that horrible)
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Tue Jun 11 22:00:01 2002
At 6/11/02 10:35 AM, you wrote:
> > I wouldn't -- I avoided seeing that movie because of the few bits I
>saw of
> > it on TV :)
>
>*produces a carp* you may wanna rent D&D just so you can feel as the
>rest of us do, IMHO the movie wasn't THAT terrible, the ending sucked
>but then again if you watch it on DVD you can go back and watch the
>original ending that got replaced. The FX were done fairly well
>considering they were ATTEMPTING to stay somewhat close to the
>game......(the ending was the only part I thought was all that horrible)

Some friends of mine and I rented this utilizing a free coupon we'd gotten
as one of us worked at Pizza Hut and they were supposed to be giving them
out. The staff, however, had taken almost all of them demonstrating to us
all the problems of letting people in minimum wage jobs around anything
that might be easily swiped. None of us had wanted to see it realizing from
the trailers how bad it was likely to be. The terrible acting involved even
by Jeremy Irons and Marlon Wayans (yes, he's usually that bad... but watch
Requiem for a Dream, he can actually act when need be) along with whoever
was ripping off Portman's horrible job in Star Wars and doing it even
worse. But it was D&D and there were dragons so we went with it.

Even for free we felt ripped off. The special effects were laughably bad
(especially the beholder), the characters were beyond poor and I don't even
think I've played in a bad AD&D game that was that poorly cliched.
Eventually we just gave up and fast-forwarded to the end because we'd seen
the trailer and could tell by the obvious foreshadowing that there'd be a
lot of dragons and maybe some cool magic. There were a lot of dragons and
it was pretty cool for a few minutes. Then we fought over who had to
actually touch the disc and remove it from the DVD player and put it back
in the box. There's still a mark on my hand from touching that thing....


--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shannon Buys)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 12 03:20:01 2002
I haven't really been following this thread, but saw something on the web
that everyone might be interested in, if you've already discussed this, then
just del this and call me Jeeves.

Go check out the latest cyberpunky type movie at www.pendragonpictures.com
and go look at the CHROME section. The art looks amazing for SR games too.
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 12 05:50:01 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Tue, 11 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> *produces a carp* you may wanna rent D&D just so you can feel as the
> rest of us do, IMHO the movie wasn't THAT terrible

The bits I saw had far too much cliche, cheesy fantasy dialogue, so I
decided it was in my best interest not to watch it :)

--
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-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 12 11:55:01 2002
> *produces a carp* you may wanna rent D&D just so you can feel as the
> rest of us do, IMHO the movie wasn't THAT terrible

>The bits I saw had far too much cliche, cheesy fantasy dialogue, so I
>decided it was in my best interest not to watch it :)


Okay, I know the movie was cheesy. However, I made sure to pay my
nine bucks to go see it. I don't care if it was completely horrible...at
least it's gotten to the point that they can MAKE a movie with D&D as the
title! I remember when people used to immediately think Satanism when they
heard D&D! So I will make sure to patronize any movie with a role-playing
title/theme. Just like I was an AVID fan of Kindred the Embraced before it
was cancelled....was it great? No. Was it VTM? Not really. But it was
fun and based off one of my fav RPGs! Sign me up! ;>

Meph
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 12 21:05:00 2002
>From: "Derek Hyde"

> > I wouldn't -- I avoided seeing that movie because of the few bits I
> > saw of it on TV :)

>*produces a carp* you may wanna rent D&D just so you can feel as the
>rest of us do, IMHO the movie wasn't THAT terrible, the ending sucked
>but then again if you watch it on DVD you can go back and watch the
>original ending that got replaced. The FX were done fairly well
>considering they were ATTEMPTING to stay somewhat close to the
>game......(the ending was the only part I thought was all that >horrible)

*produces a shotgun loaded for carp*

On second thought, don't. In regards to any ~defense~ taht anyone would
like to advance for D & D the movie, I'd just like to remind you of one
thing.

The Darth <pick one> rip-off character of the movie stands before the
90210-reject hero wearing BLUE LIPSTICK (!!) and says, in his "I wanted to
be a villain on Highlander" voice, "Give me the rod."

I cried. I went home. I pulled out my old tattered boxed sets lovingly
taped together, with their tiny pencils and pastel opaque polyhedrons, and I
ever so delicately wrapped my damaged psyche around the game that made me an
avid roleplayer at the age of 8. And I NEVER want to see that HORRIBLE
movie ever again. Someone owes me 97 minutes of my life back. Marlon
Wayans did a great job lobbying for a career as a B-movie scream queen. And
Lucas should of sued someone for remaking Episode 1 without droids. Hell,
I'll take a lifetime of Jar-Jar before I'll let the D&D movie sully any
electronics I own.

</end rant>

If you haven't seen the movie, please don't

Korishinzo
--if those bastards try and make a Shadowrun movie, I'll get homocidal in a
spectacular kind of way

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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 12 21:15:03 2002
At 01:05 AM 13/06/2002 +0000, Ice Heart wrote:
> minutes of my life back. Marlon Wayans did a great job lobbying for a
career as a B-movie scream queen. And Lucas should of sued

should HAVE, should HAVE

>If you haven't seen the movie, please don't

It's worth watching once


>Korishinzo
>--if those bastards try and make a Shadowrun movie, I'll get homocidal in
>a spectacular kind of way

did you not see The Matrix?

--
Justin Bell
justin@******.net
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 00:45:04 2002
<<<Clipped it all>>>
well mark, seeing as I know you personally and that you have pretty
strange taste when it comes to movies and have said that you didn't like
many of the movies that've been mentioned on here as good reference
movies for SR I think I know where I rate your opinion of D&D the movie,
we all know that the movie wasn't as good as it could have been but it
didn't suck nearly as bad as you're trying to imply. Quite Simply put,
don't claim it's shit unless you can do better, and seeing as I've got
the full battery of 3D animation programs and about 3times the computer
as what you have and STILL can't accomplish getting them to look THAT
good I know that you can't so what's your basis for complaint? How many
movies have there been that used CGI dragons? Umm....lets see,
Dragonheart (ok but a little strange on their vision of what a dragon
should look like), Dragonheart 2 (see afore mentioned remark about
dragon being very dog like in it's BODY's geometry), D&D, and Reign of
Fire coming out this summer....it's quite possible I missed a couple but
the point is that with nothing really to compare it to there's no
complaining because it sucked.
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Christian Casavant)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 03:25:00 2002
ICe Heart,


> *produces a shotgun loaded for carp*
>

Is that better or worse than a shotgun loaded *with* carp?


> Hell, I'll take a lifetime of Jar-Jar before I'll let the D&D movie sully any
>
> electronics I own.

Be careful what you wish for...

Xian.
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Peter Kristiansen)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 04:45:04 2002
From: "Derek Hyde"

[Snipped alot..]
> didn't suck nearly as bad as you're trying to imply. Quite Simply
put,
> don't claim it's shit unless you can do better, and seeing as I've got

Sorry, but I don't buy this one. I have to agree with (I can't remember
who it was!!) that D&D sucked big time, I can find other worse movies
but I have to look for them, and I retain my right to complain about any
movie or football player or whoever. These people are supposed to be
professionals that get payed to make movies and as such _should_ be a
heck of a lot better than I am.

-oh well.. enough complaints from me for now :-)

Peter
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 04:50:04 2002
>From: "Ice Heart" <korishinzo@*******.com>
<Snip>
>On second thought, don't. In regards to any ~defense~ taht anyone would
>like to advance for D & D the movie, I'd just like to remind you of one
>thing.
>
>The Darth <pick one> rip-off character of the movie stands before the
>90210-reject hero wearing BLUE LIPSTICK (!!) and says, in his "I wanted to
>be a villain on Highlander" voice, "Give me the rod."
<Snip>
>Korishinzo
>--if those bastards try and make a Shadowrun movie, I'll get homocidal in a
>spectacular kind of way

Just to throw my 2 penneth in. The biggest problem with the movie was simply
this; The guy behind it played (according to rumour) one session of D&D, not
D&D3e but the 3rd edition of base D&D, the board game one! and thought, "Oh,
that's quite cool, magic and dragons and sh!t I'm going to make a movie
about that." He wrote the story, (anyone remember what their first D&D
adventure was like? not what it was like at the time, what it was like when
you looked back?)

The movie was so unbelievably pants that even this
<backs a 40 tonne quarry truck up to the riverbank and hits the tipper,
dumping that amount of white cotton Y-fronts in, carp is buried>
doesn't come close.

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Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 04:50:13 2002
<Snip>
>>Korishinzo
>>--if those bastards try and make a Shadowrun movie, I'll get homocidal in
>>a spectacular kind of way
>
>did you not see The Matrix?

Different Bastards

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Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 05:55:01 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Wed, 12 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> Quite Simply put,
> don't claim it's shit unless you can do better and seeing as I've got
> the full battery of 3D animation programs and about 3times the computer
> as what you have and STILL can't accomplish getting them to look THAT
> good I know that you can't so what's your basis for complaint?

That only applies, IMnsHO, if you have the same resources available as the
people who made the thing you're complaining about... None of us can make a
better D&D(-like) movie because we haven't got I-don't-know-how-many
million dollars and a movie studio behind us.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 06:50:01 2002
>From: "Derek Hyde"

[SNIP]
>we all know that the movie wasn't as good as it could have been but it
>didn't suck nearly as bad as you're trying to imply. Quite Simply put,
>don't claim it's shit unless you can do better, and seeing as I've got
>the full battery of 3D animation programs and about 3times the computer
>as what you have and STILL can't accomplish getting them to look THAT
>good I know that you can't so what's your basis for complaint? How many
>movies have there been that used CGI dragons? Umm....lets see,
>Dragonheart (ok but a little strange on their vision of what a dragon
>should look like), Dragonheart 2 (see afore mentioned remark about
>dragon being very dog like in it's BODY's geometry), D&D, and Reign of
>Fire coming out this summer....it's quite possible I missed a couple but
>the point is that with nothing really to compare it to there's no
>complaining because it sucked.

Sorry Derek but I have to take issue with this one. :)

Do you cook? Do you cook really well? Can you, say, create a gourmet meal
from scratch? No? If someone opens a restaurant supposedly serving gourmet
food, and you go there, pay money, and eat that food, adn then it is one of
the worst meals of your life...are you honestly ging to tell me that it's
cool because, hey, I can't make gourmet food? I really don't think so.
These people took millions of dollars and delivered up a steaming pile of
fresh animal feces to the public, including hundreds of thousands of life
long gamers who thought taht maybe, finally, at long last, our movie was
here. Gamers who were unwittingly suckered into keeping that movie from
completely bombing at the box office. Why? Because we were lied to. By
every single person involved with that damn movie. I read reviews in Dragon
Magazine written by people who sell the game, saying that the movie was as
"accurate as was possible" to the table top game. They not only opened a
restaurant claiming to sell gourmet food...they had food critics come in and
back up their claim. And in the process, they squandered a filming
opportunity that Scorcese or Spielberg would give up tender portions of
their anoatomy for. The cathedral...the one in Prague...the one no American
photographer or filmmaker has been allowed to bring so much as a $2 Instamax
disposable camera into prior to this movie...got less than 10 minutes of
screen time, in two scenes, both hacked up so badly you could not tell where
they were. As to the great dragons...so what? If you go for that gourmet
meal and the filet minon is abslutely wonderful, but the sauce, the
appetizer, and all three side dishes make you retch...are you really going
to tell people..."Hey...the steak was great!" I agree, they had wonderful
special effects. Beautiful CGI that neither I nor any of my friends (even
the guys who do CGI for a living) could hope to duplicate. So they
sprinkled some very expensive glitter on the steaming pile of feces. That
does not, a good movie make...or even an acceptable bad movie. Tank Girl
was an acceptable bad movie. Dungeons & Dragons was a waste of a very good
fantasy setting.

Korishinzo
--yes...I am ~really~ not happy with the D & D movie

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Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 14:25:01 2002
> That only applies, IMnsHO, if you have the same resources available as
the
> people who made the thing you're complaining about... None of us can
make
> a
> better D&D(-like) movie because we haven't got I-don't-know-how-many
> million dollars and a movie studio behind us.
<rant>
This is true, ******HOWEVER****** since the only reason that I made ANY
reference to the movie at all was because I was mentioning that another
movie (based on the trailer that I've seen for it) looks to have a
better job of doing the dragons than what was done in D&D and that's
EXACTLY what my reference was to it what everyone else is arguing that
the whole movie sucked for is a moot point and ANYONE with a computer
and some 3D programs and creativity and time could try to make dragons
like that, give me time and I can make you a small scene of a dragon
attacking a castle that's floating in the clouds, I've done it once as a
thing that seemed fun to do and decided that it wouldn't be hard to
tweak it out so that it didn't look half as sketchy either...my point
being (and still one that no one's disputed) in comparison to all other
movies to date that've had dragons in them, D&D is pretty much top of
them as far as quality and such of the computer graphics and animation
OF THE DRAGONS...this is all I'm saying so unless you're going to point
out movies that had better dragons for me to go watch, quit telling me
that D&D sucked, I know it wasn't an excellent movie, we've all got our
complaints about it, I personally would have liked it a lot more had
they used their original ending which is on the DVD in special features.

</rant>


Derek
Message no. 33
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 14:30:01 2002
Derek Hyde wrote:
>
> being (and still one that no one's disputed) in comparison to all other
> movies to date that've had dragons in them, D&D is pretty much top of
> them as far as quality and such of the computer graphics and animation
> OF THE DRAGONS...this is all I'm saying so unless you're going to point
> out movies that had better dragons for me to go watch,

Dragonheart
Message no. 34
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 15:25:01 2002
At 12:03 PM 6/13/2002 -0500, Derek Hyde wrote:

>D&D is pretty much top of
>them as far as quality and such of the computer graphics and animation
>OF THE DRAGONS...this is all I'm saying so unless you're going to point
>out movies that had better dragons for me to go watch...

I agree that the dragons in D&D were very well done. Just thought I'd toss
out that Dragonheart is another movie with a good CGI dragon.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 16:00:01 2002
> Dragonheart

seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 17:55:01 2002
At 02:28 PM 6/13/2002 -0500, Derek Hyde wrote:
> > Dragonheart
>
>seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....

Dragonheart with Dennis Quaid and the voice of Sean Connery? "Dog" dragon?

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/8384/Draco.html

I'm sorry, but the dragon in Dragonheart was some very good CGI.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 37
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Thu Jun 13 18:00:01 2002
Graht wrote:
> At 02:28 PM 6/13/2002 -0500, Derek Hyde wrote:
>
>> > Dragonheart
>>
>> seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....
>
>
> Dragonheart with Dennis Quaid and the voice of Sean Connery? "Dog" dragon?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/8384/Draco.html
>
> I'm sorry, but the dragon in Dragonheart was some very good CGI.

I have to agree. It was some really good early CG work. Better than a
lot of the crap we have nowadays
Message no. 38
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 03:55:01 2002
At 6/12/02 10:30 AM, you wrote:
><<<Clipped it all>>>
>well mark, seeing as I know you personally and that you have pretty
>strange taste when it comes to movies

I'm sorry... I cannot understand how you can enjoy such unmitigated crap as
Hackers and Mr. Holland's Opus. I don't tend to have strange taste in
films, I tend to have good taste. I do like a good number of independet
films and the like, but I think the critical difference is around the
wording. I tend to prefer film and cinema to movies. That's the fastest way
I think I can sum up an otherwise long and pointless rant.
><clip long passage on why D&D wasn't that bad>

Holly was there at the time and agreed with me, not to mention about 2 or 3
other people, a large number of other posters here and pretty much every
other person I've spoken to since. It seems that you're in the minority here.


--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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Message no. 39
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 05:20:00 2002
>From: "Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net>
> > Dragonheart
>
>seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....

Dog Dragons? what the heck is a dog dragon?

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Message no. 40
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:00:06 2002
> >seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....

I've seen the geometry models for Draco from dragonheart, it started off
as a st Bernard then they tacked on the wings, long tail, and long neck
with head, slapped the whole thing with a scales model, then did the
texturemapping and it was done, they moved like a dog, remember from any
of the D&D books where it talks about how elegant they're supposed to
be?? That was NOT an elegant dragon in motion
Message no. 41
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:05:01 2002
> I'm sorry... I cannot understand how you can enjoy such unmitigated
crap
> as
> Hackers and Mr. Holland's Opus. I don't tend to have strange taste in
> films, I tend to have good taste. I do like a good number of
independet
> films and the like, but I think the critical difference is around the
> wording. I tend to prefer film and cinema to movies. That's the
fastest
> way
> I think I can sum up an otherwise long and pointless rant.
> ><clip long passage on why D&D wasn't that bad>
>
> Holly was there at the time and agreed with me, not to mention about 2
or
> 3
> other people, a large number of other posters here and pretty much
every
> other person I've spoken to since. It seems that you're in the
minority
> here.

Not going to take this very far because I am heeding the gridsec post
and dropping the subject BUT.....mark, since you obviously didn't catch
on that I wasn't talking about the movie as a whole but rather ONLY the
CGI Animation with the dragons I'm not going to keep the fight up, we of
the gaming group that know you personally all realize that you have to
have the last word in any argument which you'll get into just because
you feel like you could add a half of a penny's worth of comment. SO
this is what I've got to say, yes the movie wasn't that good, no it
wasn't total shit, yes I do find movies like hackers, Johnny mnemonic,
and quite a few others that've been mentioned here as good source vid
for gaming to be good movies, no I don't care that you're suffering from
OCS, and I hereby end the argument with you.

Oh by the way....LAST WORD
Message no. 42
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 06:05:05 2002
At 04:01 6/14/2002, Derek Hyde wrote:

>I've seen the geometry models for Draco from dragonheart, it started off
>as a st Bernard then they tacked on the wings, long tail, and long neck
>with head, slapped the whole thing with a scales model, then did the
>texturemapping and it was done, they moved like a dog, remember from any
>of the D&D books where it talks about how elegant they're supposed to
>be?? That was NOT an elegant dragon in motion

Next you're going to say that Vampires in Shadowrun aren't like Vampires in
White Wolf. ;-)

Adam
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Message no. 43
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 12:40:01 2002
In a message dated Fri, 14 Jun 2002 5:23:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
loneeagle2061@*******.com writes:

>
>
> >From: "Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net>
> > > Dragonheart
> >
> >seen it, and no it wasn't better, they were "Dog Dragons".....
>
> Dog Dragons? what the heck is a dog dragon?


It is in reference to the CGI model they used to create them. They were based on a dogs
Bone structuring with minimal changes. Throw on a new skin a whala you have a dog dragon
Message no. 44
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Fri Jun 14 13:50:01 2002
> Next you're going to say that Vampires in Shadowrun aren't like
Vampires
> in
> White Wolf. ;-)
>
hmm....fangs, blood sucker....don't like sun, umm...nope.....BUT since
it's a viral infection in shadowrun I should! LOL
Message no. 45
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Sun Jun 16 18:55:01 2002
In a message dated 6/12/2002 9:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
korishinzo@*******.com writes:

> The Darth <pick one> rip-off character of the movie stands before the
> 90210-reject hero wearing BLUE LIPSTICK (!!) and says, in his "I wanted to
> be a villain on Highlander" voice, "Give me the rod."

Funny you should say that...
Message no. 46
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Sun Jun 16 18:55:04 2002
In a message dated 6/13/2002 3:28:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
christian@********.org writes:

> Is that better or worse than a shotgun loaded *with* carp?

And would this carp-loaded shotgun be wielded by a woodchuck? And if so, what
would be the effects of dikoting the fish's scales?
Message no. 47
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject: RPG movies
Date: Wed Jun 19 07:35:01 2002
At 6/13/02 02:26 PM, you wrote:
>At 12:03 PM 6/13/2002 -0500, Derek Hyde wrote:
>
>>D&D is pretty much top of
>>them as far as quality and such of the computer graphics and animation
>>OF THE DRAGONS...this is all I'm saying so unless you're going to point
>>out movies that had better dragons for me to go watch...

Note the part where I said we fast-forwarded to get to the part with the
dragons.... it was the only bit worth watching.


--
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