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Message no. 1
From: "Bill P. Flint" <claymore@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 01:14:58 -0400
I know when a magical character gets a deadly wound that he/she must check for
magic loss. This is of course done by rolling 2d6 and if the result is lower
than your magic rating then nothing happens, but if it higher then bye bye to
one magic point.

I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher then
12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the rule of 6
applies to the roll mention above?

--Claymore
Message no. 2
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:51:57 -0700
Claymore, you have it backwards. You roll 2d6 and if the roll is less than
or equal to your Magic Rating you lose a point. If the roll is higher you
are safe. This means the following:

1) If your Magic is 12+, receiving a deadly wound will cost you a point of
magic (OUCH).

2) You cannot lose your last point of Magic as a result of wounds.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds. - Reply
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:22:12 +0200
> I know when a magical character gets a deadly wound that he/she must
> check for magic loss. This is of course done by rolling 2d6 and if the
> result is lower than your magic rating then nothing happens, but if it
> higher then bye bye to one magic point.

> I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher
> then 12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the
> rule of 6 applies to the roll mention above?

You're flipping the whole thing upside-down. If you roll lower than or
equal to your Magic stat, you lose 1 Magic Point. So, if your Magic is
over 12, you automatically lose 1 point. If you feel this is too hefty,
you (or your GM, if you're not one) could rule that, if you roll a 12,
you don't lose a point of Magic.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Gurth + pass the lord and praise the ammo +
+(jweste%smtp@******.hzeeland.nl)+ +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Message no. 4
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 05:49:59 -0700
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Bill P. Flint wrote:

> I know when a magical character gets a deadly wound that he/she must check for
> magic loss. This is of course done by rolling 2d6 and if the result is lower
> than your magic rating then nothing happens, but if it higher then bye bye to
> one magic point.
>
> I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher then
> 12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the rule of 6
> applies to the roll mention above?
>
> --Claymore
>
Well, Claymore
The way it is written in the rulebook I say that the rule of 6 does apply
and so does the Karma Pool rule. (Adding Karma dice, and doing
re-rolls). My reasoning there is drawn from the rule of six rule, the
Karma Pool dice instrautions, and the fact that Harlequin, Ehran, and
Dunklezahn all have incredible Magic ratings.
Ivy
Message no. 5
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds. - Reply
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 06:09:58 -0700
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Gurth wrote:

> > I know when a magical character gets a deadly wound that he/she must
> > check for magic loss. This is of course done by rolling 2d6 and if the
> > result is lower than your magic rating then nothing happens, but if it
> > higher then bye bye to one magic point.

Y'know, I actually missed the fact that the procedure was upside down. I
gots to read these more carefully.

>
> > I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher
> > then 12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the
> > rule of 6 applies to the roll mention above?
>

This part of the question made sense in redards to the actual rule, so I
didn't notice that the question was upside out.

> You're flipping the whole thing upside-down. If you roll lower than or
> equal to your Magic stat, you lose 1 Magic Point. So, if your Magic is
> over 12, you automatically lose 1 point. If you feel this is too hefty,
> you (or your GM, if you're not one) could rule that, if you roll a 12,
> you don't lose a point of Magic.
>
I interpret the whole thing, in light of the rule of 6 and the rules for
using Karma Pool, so that a character may both use karma dice, get Karma
rerolls, and use the rule of six. Otherwise, how could Harlequin, Ehran,
Dunklezahn, et al, have kept their monsterous Magic ratings?

Ivy
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 10:13:07 -0400
>>>>> "Ivy" == Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG> writes:

Ivy> The way it is written in the rulebook I say that the rule of 6 does
Ivy> apply and so does the Karma Pool rule.

No, neither do. The Rule of Six only applies to tests, not additive dice
rolls (like Magic loss or Initiative). If it were some kind of normal test
(ie, roll two dice, T#=Magic Rating) then it would apply, but the Rules of
1 and 6 do not apply when you roll some dice and add up the total.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "What do you want to do tonight,
Brain?"
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | "The same thing we do every night, Pinky,
this space intentionally left blank | try to take over the world!"
Message no. 7
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:35:26 +1000
Bill P. Flint wrote:

> I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher then
> 12 they can't lose magic points by the [2d6 under Magic] method anymore
> or does the rule of 6 applies to the roll mention above?

I assume you meant to say `they can't _fail_ to lose a magic point'.

Hmm. Good question. I guess I'd try to convince my GM that the Rule
of Six should apply in this situation. What do others think?

luke
Message no. 8
From: Claudia Mohr <claudia@*****.PHYS.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 10:03:44 EST
Luke wrote:
<<<
Hmm. Good question. I guess I'd try to convince my GM that the Rule
of Six should apply in this situation. What do others think?

I disagree. The chance roling a six is to high to be used in this situation.
How should a mage ever survive (with his magic) the first adventures when he
is still unexperienced?

Claudia
Message no. 9
From: "Bill P. Flint" <claymore@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:16:45 -0400
I just noticed I got it backwards, but I still want to know if the rule of 6
should apply?

I feel it should since the errata for SRII only stated that the rule of 6 doesn't apply to
initiative only.

other wise it better to play a burnout mage with a bunch of power foci because
the karma spend to get one initiate grade is a a lot to just lost from a deadly
wound.

--Claymore
Message no. 10
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:35:23 -0400
>
>I know when a magical character gets a deadly wound that he/she must check for
>magic loss. This is of course done by rolling 2d6 and if the result is lower
>than your magic rating then nothing happens, but if it higher then bye bye to
>one magic point.
>
>I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher then
>12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the rule of 6
>applies to the roll mention above?
>
>--Claymore
>
>
As a matter of fact, you lose a point if you roll under or equal to your
Magic score (pg.115, SRII).
Christopher Higgins
Message no. 11
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:38:24 -0400
>>>>> "Bill" == Bill P Flint <claymore@******.DIGEX.NET>
writes:

Bill> I feel it should since the errata for SRII only stated that the rule
Bill> of 6 doesn't apply to initiative only.

No, the errata states that the Rule of Six applies to success tests. Since
checking for magic loss isn't a success test, the rules of 1 and 6 do not
apply. It uses initiative as an example of an instance dice rolling that is
not a success test.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | No Zooanoids were injured in the making
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | of this message.
Message no. 12
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 12:14:35 -0400
>
>I just noticed I got it backwards, but I still want to know if the rule of 6
>should apply?
>
>I feel it should since the errata for SRII only stated that the rule of 6 doesn't
apply to initiative only.
>
>other wise it better to play a burnout mage with a bunch of power foci because
>the karma spend to get one initiate grade is a a lot to just lost from a deadly
>wound.
>
>--Claymore
>
My opinion may not count for much as I have not had a regular group in
some time so I barely get a character started before the group breaks up
or we get too busy, etc. If you have a Magic Rating of 12+, you're either
not meta/human or you're Grade 6+ initiate. How many spells do you have at
a Force of 12+? I mean, you may lose a point of Magic but you don't lose a
Grade of Initiation. How often does your character take Deadly wounds? If
it's quite often I'd say that your GM's a bastard or you need to improve
your tactical skills.
Sorry if I sound sarcastic, I'm not trying to be but at Grade 6+,
your character should be quite shit-hot. I would imagine the game would
become more tactical/cerebral at that power level.
Christopher Higgins.
Message no. 13
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:48:50 -0700
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> >>>>> "Ivy" == Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG> writes:
>
> Ivy> The way it is written in the rulebook I say that the rule of 6 does
> Ivy> apply and so does the Karma Pool rule.
>
> No, neither do. The Rule of Six only applies to tests, not additive dice
> rolls (like Magic loss or Initiative). If it were some kind of normal test
> (ie, roll two dice, T#=Magic Rating) then it would apply, but the Rules of
> 1 and 6 do not apply when you roll some dice and add up the total.
> --
> Rat

Interesting point there, Rat.
However, the rulebook clearly states that neither the rule of 6 nor the
Karma rules apply to Initiative. Such a statement is conspiciously
lacking in the case of losing magic.

It has been my experience with FASA that if it isn't forbidden, it's
allowed. Good quandry, no? I'm not sure which way I'd go for my game
either. I guess it all comes down to whether or not the roll against
loss of magic is a "Test" or not. Now a "Test" is occurring any time
the
GM or PLayer is rolling dice against a Target Number. In this case, the
roll to prevent magic loss is rolled on two dice and the Target Number is
equal or above the Character's Magic Score. It fits the definition of an
Open Test (Shadowbeat) for me.

This might be one for the DLOH.

Ivy
Message no. 14
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:48:22 -0400
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Bill P. Flint wrote:
> I just wondering it a magical character gets their magic rating higher then
> 12 they can't lose magic points by this method anymore or does the rule of 6
> applies to the roll mention above?

I would say in the interest of game balance that the rule of 6 does apply..
------------------GRANITE
Message no. 15
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:53:20 -0400
On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> 2) You cannot lose your last point of Magic as a result of wounds.

I know this has been brought up before..I STRONGLY DISSAGREE WITH THIS
STATEMENT!!!..If a magically inclined character gets into or places
themselves into a situation where they have a single magic point then
IMHO this point of magic is as subject to loss as all the rest of the
magic points..with a special interest in those characters who choose to
lower their own magic points through implantation of bio/cyberware...
-----------------------GRANITE
Message no. 16
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:19:12 -0400
>>>>> "C" == C Paul Douglas <granite@*****.NET> writes:

C> On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:
>> 2) You cannot lose your last point of Magic as a result of wounds.
C> I know this has been brought up before..I STRONGLY DISSAGREE WITH THIS
C> STATEMENT!!!

According to the game mechanics (important phrase there), you can't loose
that last point of magic. If you have 1 Magic Point left, you can't roll 1
or less on 2D6, therefore you can't loose that point.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | There are very few personal problems
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | which cannot be solved with a suitable
this space intentionally left blank | application of high explosives.
Message no. 17
From: "Bill P. Flint" <claymore@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 23:17:13 -0400
Someone said the rule og Six should not apply to this rule being disguessed.
The person said this becuse it stated that for any success test that this rule
should be applied to, well from a players point of view everything looks like a
success test and also this is a success test to se if you do or don't hav
something happen.

here is also a quote from the errata sheet:

"p.32 The Rule of Six
Add:The Rule of Six does not apply to Initiative.(see p.70)"

So this answers my question and the rule of six will be used. Also for the person that
said the GM is a bastard and stuff... well I'm the GM and you better ask my players what
they think of my GM before you make such a statement.

--Claymore, No-Dachi, Flameberge
Message no. 18
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:36:43 -0700
GRANITE, you cannot lose your last point of Magic to wounds because you cannot
roll 1 on 2d6.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 19
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:37:13 -0400
>
> Add:The Rule of Six does not apply to Initiative.(see p.70)"
>
>So this answers my question and the rule of six will be used. Also for the
>person that said the GM is a bastard and stuff... well I'm the GM and you
>better ask my players what they think of my GM before you make such a
>statement. >
>--Claymore, No-Dachi, Flameberge
>
You may be refering to me. What I said was that if Deadly wounds were
occuring often enough that the players actually need to worry about the
Magic Loss Test then EITHER the GM's a bastard OR the players to work on
their tactical skills. At a Magic score of 12+, we're talking Grade
6+'ers. I've personally run into situations where the GM's only solution
to powerful characters was to hack at them with bigger and better
monsters. Those are the GM's with the aggresive, confrontational attitudes.
On the other hand, I've also seen players panic in a difficult but
reasonable situation because their only concept of gaming was hack&slash.
When the GM took that option away they were powerless because their
tactical skills sucked.
IMHO, SR is a tactical game. More often than not, combat is
meaningless because the real opponents are in the background fucking your
brains and playing you for pawns.
I've been playing RPG's for 13 years now so I think I know the
difference between idiots and gamers. If you think that you're being fair
as a GM but the players are constantly getting hurt because they think
that Magic scores of 12+ give them the ability to take panzers one-on-one
then by all means, keep hurting them.

P.S. Don't be so sensitive; it's just a game.
Christopher Higgins
Message no. 20
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:26:34 -0400
ûOn Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
ûû
> According to the game mechanics (important phrase there), you can't loose
> that last point of magic. If you have 1 Magic Point left, you can't roll =
1
> or less on 2D6, therefore you can't loose that point.

That is called a loophole..Which I would NEVER allow in one of my
games..and as I said before I know that the lowest TN is a 2 NORMALLY but=

if you only have 1 die to throw..you can throw that doomed single magic
point which also happens to follow along with the rule of 1s
-------------------GRANITE
Message no. 21
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Rule of 6, Magic Loss, and Deadly Wounds.
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:39:05 -0400
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> GRANITE, you cannot lose your last point of Magic to wounds because you cannot
> roll 1 on 2d6.

Well there are 2 solutions to this
1] take away the 2nd die
2] change the target number to a 2 since as we all know the lowest TN is
a 2 in shadowrun....
------------------GRANITE

Further Reading

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