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Message no. 1
From: 92804168@***.UWPLATT.EDU
Subject: Sams vs Mages
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 23:37:00 CST
Ok, now to put my 2 nuyen in:

Somebody (I deleted the message and now I can't remember who) said something
to the effect that "a street sam with 3 or 4 actions can use those actions
to shoot him, shoot her, etc, getting 4 kills in one combat round. A mage,
with a well placed manaball or fireball can kill 4 targets at once...
score now sam 4, mage 4. Give the mage wired 1 or so for the low essence
cost, and you now have sam 4, mage 12". Anyway, that's how I remember it.

What the person who wrote this was forgetting is that yes, a mage can take
out a group of targets with one well placed spell. But you are comparing
that to street sam firing a weapon. What if said sam is using grenades, and
is taking out groups of targets at a time for each of their actions? For
that matter, what if the mage only has spells like firebolt and has to take
out targets one at a time?

Also, a sam who makes an attack does not fatigue themselves. A mage on the
other hand can actually knock themselves unconscious or even hurt themselves
while casting an attack spell. I'll admit the chance is usually small, but
still, it exists. When is the last time your street sam knocked themselves
out by firing a Roomsweeper?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the main power of a good mage
is NOT combat! Now, don't get upset and think I mean they are wimps; I am
saying that most of the mages in parties I have ran/played in have not used
combat spells anywhere near as often as they use other spells or astrally
perceive or something.

Basically, I don't see WHY anyone is trying to compare mages to street sams
in the first place! Why not complain that a street sam cant drive a car as
good as a rigger? Or that a rigger cant hack a system as good as the decker?

Remember folks: every character has ADVANTAGES and WEAKNESSES. Just like in
real life, you can't do everything extremely well. You either do a few things
very well, and others ok, or you do a lot of stuff not so good. Thats why you
need teams of people in the first place, so they can support each other.

Now that I've rambled on for so long, I better end this before I get some
decker hacking into my files to kill my mail utility.


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Message no. 2
From: Angel <olds@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sams vs Mages
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 16:51:30 EST
I dont remember who wrote this, but here goes anyway.

>>>>>[ Argument about how many people a mage can kill versus sams
deleted]<<<<

> Also, a sam who makes an attack does not fatigue themselves. A mage on the
> other hand can actually knock themselves unconscious or even hurt themselves
> while casting an attack spell. I'll admit the chance is usually small, but
> still, it exists. When is the last time your street sam knocked themselves
> out by firing a Roomsweeper?
>
Actually, I disagree. Granted there are the rare occassions that
it happens. But I have never knocked myself out from drain and I
very rarely take any because I consider myself to be a very SMART
mage. Fetish foci and centering do wonders for drain. ANd if you
need more dice for drain, add to your casting pool by having your
elemental aid sorcery. Granted people have been known to get caught
unprepared and with there pants down.... :)

> Basically, I don't see WHY anyone is trying to compare mages to street sams
> in the first place! Why not complain that a street sam cant drive a car as
> good as a rigger? Or that a rigger cant hack a system as good as the decker?
>
Actually the point was very simple. Game balance. And anyone who
says they can see their mage leading the samurai into a fight needs
to think about this concept very seriously. Making the mages slower
than the samurai give the samurai there job back - to be the muscle
and take the bullets. If the mage can do this as well, what's the
point of a samurai?

> Remember folks: every character has ADVANTAGES and WEAKNESSES. Just like in
> real life, you can't do everything extremely well. You either do a few things
> very well, and others ok, or you do a lot of stuff not so good. Thats why you
> need teams of people in the first place, so they can support each other.

Thank you for saying that. This has been our point. By allowing
mages to pay karma and NOT essence, your giving them an advantage
they SHOULD be paying for. That's why this started. We really didnt
mean to rehash the "who is better, sam or mage argument". :)

take it easy all,
QuickSilver, the Beastmaster

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