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Message no. 1
From: Steve.Garrard@********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:42:34 +0200
Max Noel wrote:
> Heh. Funnily enough, I don't know anybody who *still*
> uses Outlook or Internet Explorer. Took a bit of time, but I
> find that people start listening after a couple reformats.

Hmm...that I find interesting also. I suppose we become a tad isolated in
the circles we move in. The reformat issue I do not get however. Aside from
one HDD crash, and a persistent virus + spyware infection, I've never had to
reformat anything in 15+ years of working with MS products. I'd like to
think I'm lucky, but I think more often than not many people are not
cautious about what they install on their machines, or how they administer
them. And in the days of the prevalent BSOD, I think I saw one twice on my
machine (both in Win95).


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon



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Message no. 2
From: sp@*****.gr (Stefanos Patelis)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:19:18 +0300
Scott Harrison wrote:

>
> On Aug 3, 2005, at 06:18, Ubiquitous wrote:
>
>> At 10:49 AM 8/3/2005 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>>
>>> According to Steve Garrard, on 3-8-05 09:07 the word on the street
>>> was...
>>>
>>>> Zebulin wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>> Am I the only one who cannot read messages from Scott
>>>>> Harrison? I keep getting errors about security.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope I have the same problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well... one thing you all have in common, more or less, is your mailer:
>>>
>>> Zebulin: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
>>> Matt: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
>>> Steve: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
>>>
>>> It could be that it's because Scott's messages are UTF-8-encoded,
>>> instead of plain text; I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet
>>> Outlook is not fully UTF-8 compliant.
>>
>>
>> I suspect those weird characters in his .sig aren't helping matters.
>>
> The UTF-8 encoding should not matter. And yes, those weird
> characters in my sig are from Plane 1 of Unicode so I can easily see
> how Microsoft products may have a hard time rendering them. However,
> the fact that they cannot be displayed is more of a prettiness
> problem. I believe the problem was related to the fact that my
> message was security signed, and the fact that many mailers interpret
> the signature as an attachment.
>
Well just as a by note I got Thunderbird running on RedHat Linux 9.2 and
I still see funnny chars even though Thunderbird picks up the encoding
as Unicode(UTF-8).

It might be the case it is more related to the sig than the encoding...


--
Πατέλης
ΣτέφαΜος

EWORX S.A.
22 Rodou Street - Maroussi 15122 - Greece
tel: +30 210 61 48 380, +30 210 61 48 360
mob: +30 6978853066 - fax +30 210 6148381
mailto:sp@*****.gr -- http://www.eworx.gr
Message no. 3
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:31:04 -0400
On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:19, Stefanos Patelis wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect those weird characters in his .sig aren't helping matters.
>>>
>> The UTF-8 encoding should not matter. And yes, those weird
>> characters in my sig are from Plane 1 of Unicode so I can easily see
>> how Microsoft products may have a hard time rendering them. However,
>> the fact that they cannot be displayed is more of a prettiness
>> problem. I believe the problem was related to the fact that my
>> message was security signed, and the fact that many mailers interpret
>> the signature as an attachment.
>>
> Well just as a by note I got Thunderbird running on RedHat Linux 9.2
> and I still see funnny chars even though Thunderbird picks up the
> encoding as Unicode(UTF-8).
>
> It might be the case it is more related to the sig than the encoding...
>
>
> --
> Πατέλης
Στέφανος
>

To see the characters you need to have two things:
(1) The ability to display Plane 1 Unicode characters
(2) A font that displays these specific characters (which are Shavian)

Microsoft has not been known to support Unicode as well as it can, and
I believe that Plane 1 are not supported well currently. I have not
checked my Vista software yet though. I would hope it works there
properly otherwise they will be getting a bug report from me.

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 4
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:47:21 +0200
According to Stefanos Patelis, on 3-8-05 18:19 the word on the street was...

> Well just as a by note I got Thunderbird running on RedHat Linux 9.2 and
> I still see funnny chars even though Thunderbird picks up the encoding
> as Unicode(UTF-8).

You're not innocent of having funny characters in your .sig, either, you
know ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
de limme
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:53:58 +0200
According to Scott Harrison, on 3-8-05 18:31 the word on the street was...

> To see the characters you need to have two things:
> (1) The ability to display Plane 1 Unicode characters

Given that you run the same OS I do, I'm assuming my computer can do this...

> (2) A font that displays these specific characters (which are
> Shavian)

...so please tell us where we can get such a font -- I tried a few from
http://www.saytheword.org.uk/shavian/fonts.html but I still see squares
with squigles in them in your .sig (whereas the Greek text in Stefanos'
.sig displays correctly).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
de limme
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:26:02 +0000
On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 12:01:26PM +0200, Steve Garrard wrote:
> I can honestly say I don't know anybody outside of this list who
> uses anything other than Outlook, and I work in the IT industry. The only
> person I can think of is my girlfriend who uses Pegasus at college, though
> their IT infrastructure is as old as I am.
>

Actually, I'd say most people I know use web based email programs for most of their email
needs (gmail, the local university's web client, etc). I also know quite a few people
who, like myself, use good old text based UNIX mail programs (mutt, pine, etc), though
that's at least partially related to the circles I hang out it, being a big UNIX geek. In
terms of 'conventional' mail apps I would say Thunderbird and Eudora are the most popular.
I only know like one person who uses Outlook, and he works for Microsoft.

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org/
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 7
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 23:35:32 -0400
On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:53, Gurth wrote:

> According to Scott Harrison, on 3-8-05 18:31 the word on the street
> was...
>
>> To see the characters you need to have two things:
>> (1) The ability to display Plane 1 Unicode characters
>
> Given that you run the same OS I do, I'm assuming my computer can do
> this...
>
>> (2) A font that displays these specific characters (which are
>> Shavian)
>
> ...so please tell us where we can get such a font -- I tried a few
> from http://www.saytheword.org.uk/shavian/fonts.html but I still see
> squares with squigles in them in your .sig (whereas the Greek text in
> Stefanos' .sig displays correctly).
>
Look on my website (www.mithrandir.com) under the Shavian entry.
There should be a font listed under Jaguar/Panther which should work
under Tiger as well. Basically you need a font that encodes the
characters at the Unicode points and most of the other older fonts do
not. Just put the TTF file into ~/Library/Fonts and it should work.
You can also look on the web for Code 2001 or for Andagii which both
should work as well.

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 8
From: Steve.Garrard@********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:26:39 +0200
David Kettler wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 12:01:26PM +0200, Steve Garrard wrote:
> > I can honestly say I don't know anybody outside of this
> list who uses
> > anything other than Outlook, and I work in the IT industry.
> The only
> > person I can think of is my girlfriend who uses Pegasus at college,
> > though their IT infrastructure is as old as I am.
> >
>
> Actually, I'd say most people I know use web based email
> programs for most of their email needs (gmail, the local
> university's web client, etc). I also know quite a few
> people who, like myself, use good old text based UNIX mail
> programs (mutt, pine, etc), though that's at least partially
> related to the circles I hang out it, being a big UNIX geek.
> In terms of 'conventional' mail apps I would say Thunderbird
> and Eudora are the most popular. I only know like one person
> who uses Outlook, and he works for Microsoft.

Yeah webmail is popular, though I must admit to detesting it myself (Gmail
is a welcome exception for some reason...I just like it). I do suddenly
realize that I'm primarily discussing the corporate world, while you seem to
be referring to a broader audience. Careful with statements of popularity
though, for better or worse Outlook enjoys 60%+ corporate market share and
that's where the money is.


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon



________________________________________________________________________
This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar
malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan.

DISCLAIMER

This email and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential
and may contain privileged or copyright information. Any views or
opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual sender,
except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of
Microgen.

If you are not the named or intended recipient of this email you
must not read, use or disseminate the information contained within
it for any purpose other than to notify us. If you have received
this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete this email from your system.

It is your responsibility to protect your system from viruses and
any other harmful code or device, we try to eliminate them from
emails and attachments, but accept no liability for any which remain.
We may monitor or access any or all emails sent to us.

In the event of technical difficulty with this email, please contact
the sender or it.support@********.co.uk

Microgen Information Management Solutions
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Message no. 9
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 16:04:41 +0000
On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 07:04:35AM -0400, John C. Penta wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Garrard <Steve.Garrard@********.co.za>
> Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 4:22 am
> Subject: RE: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages
>
> > LOL :) Well I don't know how many times she's told me about their
> > endlessproblems with mail, but in all fairness I must concede that
> > at least SOME of
> > that is probably due to most colleges' lack of skilled IT staff.
> > Over here
> > at least, all tertiary education institutions seem to attract the
> > IT people
> > who either a) suck, or b) can't be bothered to get a job in the
> > outsideworld. With very few exceptions, all colleges here have
> > mindbogglinglycrappy IT infrastructure.
>
> I assure you, sir. It is universal.
>
> Better, they're all volunteers. Or students.
>

I don't know, I never really had any complaints about the skill of my alma matta's IT
people. I had complaints about some of their policies, but that's a separate issue...

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org/
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com ('Shadowrun Discussion')
Subject: Scott Harrison - Unreadable Messages [OT]
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:23:51 -0500
On 8/3/2005 5:42 AM, Steve Garrard wrote:
>
> The reformat issue I do not get however. Aside from
> one HDD crash, and a persistent virus + spyware infection, I've never had to
> reformat anything in 15+ years of working with MS products. I'd like to
> think I'm lucky, but I think more often than not many people are not
> cautious about what they install on their machines, or how they administer
> them. And in the days of the prevalent BSOD, I think I saw one twice on my
> machine (both in Win95).

You've hit the nail on the head. When people get their first computer
there's really nothing to tell them what they need to do to protect
themselves from virii and spyware. About all they hear about on the news
is that spyware is bad, not what it does or how to protect yourself.
They may hear something vague about a firewall or an anti virus
application or spyware destroyer, but nothing that says "Go here, get
this, do this" which is what they really need. Most people I know are
afraid to do anything to their computer in case they break it. Yet they
have no problem installing ActiveX controls and all sorts of other junk.
It's a very strange behaviour.

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