Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Richard M Conroy <Richard_M_Conroy@***.ir.intel.com>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Mon, 23 Sep 96 12:32:00 PDT

Message no. 1 Pete wrote:

>This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
>face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
>and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
>situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
>or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
>The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
>players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.

Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline his
actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.

Examples of my defaults:
Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
regular ammo.
Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
have their laundering systems set up by default.

There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
certain people.

Richard.
O--------------------------------------------------------------------O
\Food for thought lies in the\Richard_M_Conroy@\Roadkill on the Info \
\depth of an inedible brick. \ccm.ir.intel.com \-rmation SuperHighway\
O-------------------------------------------------------------------O

From:	chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:52:35 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 2 >Pete wrote:
>
>>This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
>>face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
>>and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
>>situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
>>or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
>>The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
>>players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.
>
>Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
>These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline his
>actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
>
>Examples of my defaults:
>Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
>Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
>Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
>character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
>regular ammo.
>Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
>have their laundering systems set up by default.
>
>There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
>certain people.
>
>
>
We do something similar. I have them each write their defaults down for me,
so that way I have it in THEIR handwriting... They have to specifically
tell me whenthey want to do something differently...:)

#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"You do more damage out of simple irritation than most
men can do in a towering rage."
-David Eddings, "Demon Lord of Karanda

From:	Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:17:57 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 3 On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Richard M Conroy wrote:

> Pete wrote:
>
> >This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
> >face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
> >and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
> >situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
> >or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
> >The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
> >players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.
>
> Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
> These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline his
> actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
>
> Examples of my defaults:
> Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
> Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
> Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
> character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
> regular ammo.
> Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
> have their laundering systems set up by default.
>
> There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
> certain people.
>
This sounds like a good idea...we don't have one of these set in stone,
it's just assumed that our characters do these things anyway. They're the
professional Shadowrunners...not us, so we assume that they now the
dangers of unconcealed guns & unlocked cars, whereas, we in the real
world don't often have thoughts of "Oh dear...did I leave the shotgun out
again" :)

This is the same when you are planning and you are at a dead end...we try
to plead with the GM saying "Hey, they are professional, and have
probably done this stuff a million times before! We'll do whatever our
characters would have thought of if we were them!"
Hey...it works....sometimes *grin*

Hamish, the hopeful Scot

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________

From:	Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:16:40 +0100

Message no. 4 In article <199609231252.HAA26212@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>>Pete wrote:
>>
>>>This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
>>>face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
>>>and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
>>>situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
>>>or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
>>>The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
>>>players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.
>>
>>Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
>>These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline his
>>actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
>>
I don't lay down any default assumptions about the players. During
character creation when we're running through the characters psyche and
background, I ask the player how his character will tend to react in
given circumstances, and his normal behaviour, this is then added to the
character sheet (subject to change later if the player wishes), I have a
copy of the character sheet, and use that for my information.

>>Examples of my defaults:
>>Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
I won;t use this, as I use legal aspects more often in my games, and
won't allow exposed weaponry at all, so the players must keep everything
concealed, except in exceptional circumstances. I have a really hard
time visualising a character walking/running down a street with full
body armour and an LMG (or similar) and absolutely nobody taking any
notice. There are a tremendous number of people in Seattle, and there's
going to be colateral damage as a result of any heavy weapons fire or
drawn out firefight. My players recognise this, and play accordingly.

What I suppose I should have stated in my original post about the suit
of armour that seems to have started all this is that DOC is a tad
forgetful, hence the reason he's an ex-Doc.

>>Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
Again, unless I am told they are doing this, or it is specified as
habit, I will *not* assume this. For a large number of reasons.
The only time I assume that a vehicle is locked, is if the character is
going to bed.

>>Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
>>character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
>>regular ammo.
This I already implement, including an ammo counter. So that I and the
player know hjow much ammunition a PC has.

>>Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
>>have their laundering systems set up by default.
>>
Again this is not something I set up by default. If the players want a
SIN, they have to make contact with someone capable of setting this up,
as for laundering, I do usually allow them a permanent Johnson/fixer as
a contact and the money is laundered through this person, with a 15%
rake off. The players are happy with this arrangement, and I have no
intention of changing it.

At this time, all the characters except one have a SIN, they paid a
great deal of money to make sure that the SIN was secure and that it
will stand up to all but the most intensive of checks. So far, it has
held true. But one day....

>>There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
>>certain people.
>>
>>
>>
>We do something similar. I have them each write their defaults down for me,
>so that way I have it in THEIR handwriting... They have to specifically
>tell me whenthey want to do something differently...:)
>

I tend to insist that the players tell me what they are doing and think
about their actions, it makes them work as hard as I have to. It also
makes them consider the finer details of a game, and I do use some very
fine details to link adventures and give out funny little clues
throughout a game about the run they're on, one's they've been on, and
one's yet to come. It recently took the players nearly two months to
figure out one game, and that only occured because one player got pissed
off at another one, sat back and started organising his notes, 45
minutes later he shot out of his chair with a Eureka, and the game
finally resolved itself - he had finally assembled the assorted clues
I'd given them. They followed the wrong path, but got there in the end.

I use little details a lot, so I like my players to think about what
they are doing, and where and when. I will pick up on things and use it
against them if they're not careful. I am not a perfectionist by any
means, that wouldn't be fair on me or my players, but I do make a game
as devious as possible. Most of the time, my players are only armed with
hold out weapons, but these have proved deadly enough when needed.
Occassinaly the heavier weaponry comes out, but they plan carefully, and
act accordingly. There are many occassions when I screw them over, and
there are many occassions when they do exactly the same to me. They
successfully conned a fixer out of 2.5 million nuyen in one game, that
was down to attention to detail, good roleplaying, and a coulple of good
dice rolls. The following run they cleared 5,000 each out of a 25,000
each pay cheque, the run after that was a breeze with 10,000 apiece.
The next run was extremely expensive, but then it was a combination of
extraction from Chicago, and completion in Seattle, the game got hectic,
dangerous and in the end expensively violent, they made a big loss. The
last run was moderately lucrative, and allowed Doc to purchase the
powered armour, he paid for it, paid for the conversion on his RV, paid
for the biometric safeties to be installed, and later drove away with
the suit on board, after that, he sat in his garage at home, and
polished it, that was all he did, that was all the player *told* me he
was going to do.

If you don't know an aircraft needs a rubber band to fly, you assume
it's a glider.... He was not technically minded, the suit is an
intricate and powerful piece of machinery, powered by what is equivelent
to a miniature nuclear reactor. he's a medic, not a nuclear physicist,
and certainly not a PA mechanic.

No, i can't *afford* to assume anything about the players. If they say
it, they do it, if they don't - well they don't. (And before anyone
asks *No* I don't expect them to tell me when their character has bowel
movements, as far as I'm concerned, they do that like Tarzan did -
during the adverts. - and that's not an assumption.)

TTYL
Pete

--
Pete Sims
Civilisation advances by extending the number of important operations which we
can perform without thinking about them.

From:	Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:49:21 -0700

Message no. 5 Richard M Conroy wrote:
>
> Pete wrote:
>
> >This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
> >face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
> >and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
> >situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
> >or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
> >The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
> >players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.
>
> Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
> These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline his
> actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
>
> Examples of my defaults:
> Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
> Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
> Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
> character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
> regular ammo.
> Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
> have their laundering systems set up by default.
>
> There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
> certain people.

I don't allow these kinds of "assumptions." The game is supposed to
somewhat simulate life. I'd be impressed if you could just declare, I
will ALWAYS lock my car, I will ALWAYS pay my bills on time, I will
NEVER be late to work or an appointment, I will ALWAYS excerise and eat
healthy...

Come on, where's the chance for fate, the occasional slip up, the
unforseen absent mindness. The runners in my game are supposed to be
real people not some comic book hero that doesn't get caught up in the
everyday oops or never needs to plan cuz his standard weapons and ammo
are ALWAYS with him. Eeesh! That's almost mild m-word...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************

From:	Richard M Conroy <Richard_M_Conroy@***.ir.intel.com>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the Players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 96 12:36:00 PDT

Message no. 6 Loki wrote:
>> Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
>> These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline
>> his actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
>>
>> Examples of my defaults:
>> Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
>> Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
>> Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
>> character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
>> regular ammo.
>> Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
>> have their laundering systems set up by default.
>>
>> There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
>> certain people.

> I don't allow these kinds of "assumptions." The game is supposed to
> somewhat simulate life. I'd be impressed if you could just declare, I
> will ALWAYS lock my car, I will ALWAYS pay my bills on time, I will
> NEVER be late to work or an appointment, I will ALWAYS excerise and
> eat healthy...

No need to be facetious, the list isn't *THAT* complicated. The
assumptions are there so that my players don't have to spend hours
during character creation writing down nitty gritty details, or spend
half an hour during a game outlining his actions that come naturally to
his character. It's also to benefit me, when 8 players suddenly start
going through the finer points of their actions, I don't have to break
out the filofax: I can continue with the flow of the adventure without
irritating 5 minute breaks. There are many things that people do through
habit that they don't consciously think about; in fact if you were to
describe the motions of it, you wouldn't remember all the details. It
always struck me as unfair to make your players iterate all these
details, it always seemed a mechanic to try and just screw players over,
waiting for them to put a foot wrong, never giving them the benefit of
character knowledge. I particularly hate all this GM vs Players tripe,
in my experience it was always a symptom of an immature GM.

> Come on, where's the chance for fate, the occasional slip up, the
> unforseen absent mindness. The runners in my game are supposed to be
> real people not some comic book hero that doesn't get caught up in the
> everyday oops or never needs to plan cuz his standard weapons and ammo
> are ALWAYS with him. Eeesh! That's almost mild m-word...

What do you mean never needs to plan ? I only assume that they are
carrying their personal defense weapons, and only light armor (I'm using
house rules BTW, those 2 conditions aren't optimum).
A case in point, in the last game there were just 2 characters,
the fixer and his bodyguard. They were doing business, so the fixer had
his submachine gun stowed on his bike, but was just carrying a handgun
otherwise. His bodyguard had 2 big handguns, just about every waking
moment he's considered on duty, so he always has them. Their bikes were
expenxive enough to have quality security systems (mag locks), they can
use them quickly if need be (1 turn to start). They had a rough day, but
got lucky, but later on had to face a gang that was responding to
trouble on their turf (armed with smg's, shotguns & stuff). The fixer
gets hit while sitting on his bike, which then collapsed on him, pinning
him, and unfortunatly (for him) his smg too, which he had concealed
under his longcoat earlier. His bodyguard, who's down to his last clips
in both handguns, has to try and fend them off, which he just manages
with 2 bullets to spare, the fixers smg had just under half a clip left,
his handgun was empty. It was a cute game. Now they have to ditch about
5 grand of their favourite guns, get their bikes plates replaced etc.

The assumptions work both ways. When a character goes to watch an area
he doesn't have to tell me he's checking to see who's packing. However
it's not subtle. All my players have SINs, it's impossible to live
without one. Now they lose 20% of their cash on a monthly basis to
maintain their identity, and must pay a further 20% to launder big sums
(ie a couple of grand).
The assumptions are simple, my players find them agreeable, and
they stop arguments. They also know that they have to specify any break
from the norm, and often find that assumptions work to their detriment,
eg characters with high physical stats and/or athletics are assumed to
work out and keep fit on a regular basis. This leads to a pattern based
lifestyle that makes it easy for your enemies to keep track of you. I'll
not even get into the drawbacks of boobytrapping your own apartment.

Yes, characters have slip ups, which I can generally gather from how
they are currently acting, and how much stress they were under, but
people don't break the force of habit that keeps them alive, unless it's
under special circumstances. Of course, sometimes the character who
sleeps with a gun under his pillow finds it's fallen under the
headboard. Shadowrunners are exceptional people, who can never truly
relax, and certain assumptions must be made about how they conduct their
lifestyle.

And yes, I do veto certain character assumptions if they are too hard to
keep (like always wear a voice mask etc.).

Richard.
O--------------------------------------------------------------------O
\Food for thought lies in the\Richard_M_Conroy@\Roadkill on the Info \
\depth of an inedible brick. \ccm.ir.intel.com \-rmation SuperHighway\
O-------------------------------------------------------------------O

From:	Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the Players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:02:45 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 7 At 12:36 PM 9/24/96 PDT, Richard wrote:

>It always struck me as unfair to make your players iterate all these
>details, it always seemed a mechanic to try and just screw players over,
>waiting for them to put a foot wrong, never giving them the benefit of
>character knowledge. I particularly hate all this GM vs Players tripe,
>in my experience it was always a symptom of an immature GM.

Exactly. Very well articulated!

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484

From:	dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject:	Re: Screwing the Players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:52:17 -0600 (MDT)

Message no. 8 Ubiquitous wrote:
|
|At 12:36 PM 9/24/96 PDT, Richard wrote:
|
|>It always struck me as unfair to make your players iterate all these
|>details, it always seemed a mechanic to try and just screw players over,
|>waiting for them to put a foot wrong, never giving them the benefit of
|>character knowledge. I particularly hate all this GM vs Players tripe,
|>in my experience it was always a symptom of an immature GM.
|
|Exactly. Very well articulated!

Okay, there's one argument to be made for screwing
players: when its all in good fun. In the group I game
most of us take turns GMing. It's a matter of pride as to
how well we can screw with a character. It's also a matter
of pride as to how well we can deal with our characters
getting screwed. And, I don't mean screwed as in killed,
loss of magic, loss of limbs or senses, the crud, etc. I
mean screwed as in messing with the characters mind and/or
life. In our group its part of the fun, but its *not* the
focus of the game.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

From:	Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the Players
Date:	Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:14:00 -0700

Message no. 9 Richard M Conroy wrote:
>
> Loki wrote:
> >> Then lay down your default assumptions at the start of the campaign.
> >> These defaults apply in any cases where the player doesn't outline
> >> his actions clearly. make sure your players understand this.
> >>
> >> Examples of my defaults:
> >> Weapons are always concealed except on a run.
> >> Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems
> >> Ammo & weapons normally carried by players are specified on their
> >> character sheet, otherwise they use their normally used handgun with
> >> regular ammo.
> >> Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
> >> have their laundering systems set up by default.
> >>
> >> There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
> >> certain people.
>
> > I don't allow these kinds of "assumptions." The game is supposed to
> > somewhat simulate life. I'd be impressed if you could just declare, I
> > will ALWAYS lock my car, I will ALWAYS pay my bills on time, I will
> > NEVER be late to work or an appointment, I will ALWAYS excerise and
> > eat healthy...
>
> No need to be facetious, the list isn't *THAT* complicated. The
> assumptions are there so that my players don't have to spend hours
> during character creation writing down nitty gritty details, or spend
> half an hour during a game outlining his actions that come naturally to
> his character. It's also to benefit me, when 8 players suddenly start
> going through the finer points of their actions, I don't have to break
> out the filofax: I can continue with the flow of the adventure without
> irritating 5 minute breaks. There are many things that people do through
> habit that they don't consciously think about; in fact if you were to
> describe the motions of it, you wouldn't remember all the details. It
> always struck me as unfair to make your players iterate all these
> details, it always seemed a mechanic to try and just screw players over,
> waiting for them to put a foot wrong, never giving them the benefit of
> character knowledge. I particularly hate all this GM vs Players tripe,
> in my experience it was always a symptom of an immature GM.
>
> > Come on, where's the chance for fate, the occasional slip up, the
> > unforseen absent mindness. The runners in my game are supposed to be
> > real people not some comic book hero that doesn't get caught up in the
> > everyday oops or never needs to plan cuz his standard weapons and ammo
> > are ALWAYS with him. Eeesh! That's almost mild m-word...
>
> What do you mean never needs to plan ? I only assume that they are
> carrying their personal defense weapons, and only light armor (I'm using
> house rules BTW, those 2 conditions aren't optimum).
> A case in point, in the last game there were just 2 characters,
> the fixer and his bodyguard. They were doing business, so the fixer had
> his submachine gun stowed on his bike, but was just carrying a handgun
> otherwise. His bodyguard had 2 big handguns, just about every waking
> moment he's considered on duty, so he always has them. Their bikes were
> expenxive enough to have quality security systems (mag locks), they can
> use them quickly if need be (1 turn to start). They had a rough day, but
> got lucky, but later on had to face a gang that was responding to
> trouble on their turf (armed with smg's, shotguns & stuff). The fixer
> gets hit while sitting on his bike, which then collapsed on him, pinning
> him, and unfortunatly (for him) his smg too, which he had concealed
> under his longcoat earlier. His bodyguard, who's down to his last clips
> in both handguns, has to try and fend them off, which he just manages
> with 2 bullets to spare, the fixers smg had just under half a clip left,
> his handgun was empty. It was a cute game. Now they have to ditch about
> 5 grand of their favourite guns, get their bikes plates replaced etc.
>
> The assumptions work both ways. When a character goes to watch an area
> he doesn't have to tell me he's checking to see who's packing. However
> it's not subtle. All my players have SINs, it's impossible to live
> without one. Now they lose 20% of their cash on a monthly basis to
> maintain their identity, and must pay a further 20% to launder big sums
> (ie a couple of grand).
> The assumptions are simple, my players find them agreeable, and
> they stop arguments. They also know that they have to specify any break
> from the norm, and often find that assumptions work to their detriment,
> eg characters with high physical stats and/or athletics are assumed to
> work out and keep fit on a regular basis. This leads to a pattern based
> lifestyle that makes it easy for your enemies to keep track of you. I'll
> not even get into the drawbacks of boobytrapping your own apartment.
>
> Yes, characters have slip ups, which I can generally gather from how
> they are currently acting, and how much stress they were under, but
> people don't break the force of habit that keeps them alive, unless it's
> under special circumstances. Of course, sometimes the character who
> sleeps with a gun under his pillow finds it's fallen under the
> headboard. Shadowrunners are exceptional people, who can never truly
> relax, and certain assumptions must be made about how they conduct their
> lifestyle.
>
> And yes, I do veto certain character assumptions if they are too hard to
> keep (like always wear a voice mask etc.).
>
> Richard.

In that light it makes more sense. I agree with the basic assumptions
your descriptions of a characters life would have. The type of
assumptions I was talking about avoiding would probably be the kind you
would veto: I always have my +4 Body spell lock on, or I always use
enhanced hearing to check before opening doors, or I always have a
watcher present, or I always search my vehicle for bombs before getting
in it...

Anyway I think it sounds like we know where each other is coming from...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************

From:	"Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:37:18 GMT + 2:00

Message no. 10 @ >>This is only safe to assume, if they are on a casual visit, but let's
@ >>face it, how often do you see the hero in a movie, get out of his car,
@ >>and lock it.... No often, in fact almost never. Also, if there is a
@ >>situation developing, and the players bin out of the car, ready to run,
@ >>or act. There is also a debate as to whether they lock the vehicle.
@ >>The worst mistake a GM can make is to assume anything about the
@ >>players, it *will* get thrown back at him/her.

Thats the use of the small Gizmo called the Fuchi (I think)
remote, our characters normally have it installed in all our
vehicals. As running to vehicle press button (free action),
deactivate alarm, start engine.

@ >Examples of my defaults:
@ >Weapons are always concealed except on a run.

Agreed, split accross multiple sites (save small personal weapons)

@ >Characters always lock & activate vehicle security systems

See above

@ >Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
@ >have their laundering systems set up by default.

We always pay by certified cred, already pre-laundered.

@ >There's a fairly comprehensive list, with individual varitaions for
@ >certain people.

Like the hidden Katana in one characters Long Coat, the stake in
its holster for my character (great fun getting that past airport
security)
Andre' `the Odd'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.

From:	Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:59:36 -0700

Message no. 11 Andre' Selmer wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> @ >Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
> @ >have their laundering systems set up by default.
>
> We always pay by certified cred, already pre-laundered.

Now that's not suspicious. ;o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************

From:	"Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject:	Re: Screwing the players
Date:	Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:02:58 GMT + 2:00

Message no. 12 @ > @ >Characters always use their SIN for payment (some characters already
@ > @ >have their laundering systems set up by default.
@ >
@ > We always pay by certified cred, already pre-laundered.
@
@ Now that's not suspicious. ;o)
@

The problem lies in that its the five nuyen sales that catch you.
All the corps need is one player to muck up his SIN, then run a
statistical analysis on all individuals who purchesed goods in that
place or used the airport at the same time as the character. This
obiously narrows the search down seriously, now look for matchs that
occur say 25% of the time or better. Uses said individuals with 25%+
association with character. Before long the entire groups SIN's are
compremised.

Ways out. Use your SIN as little as possible. When having to use
transport to other locations break up group go individually, if
member X has to go through Fiji on his way to Upper Malta so be it.
Use multiple SINs and IDs. Make sure that you have a well paid decker
watching your accounts for unusal financial requests from the tax man
etc etc etc.

Anyway in our campaign we play that certified cred is the current
equivilent of cash. SIN cred sticks are the credit cards, checks etc
of current era.

Andre' `the Odd'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.

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