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Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:53:20 -0500
I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...

Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.

The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the availability T#)

This is too unbalancing ... perhaps double the price & Street Index?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 2
From: Steve Menard <SMenard@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:28:33 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alfredo B Alves [mailto:dghost@****.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 6:53 AM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Securetech clothing
>
>
> I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>
> Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
> base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.
>
> The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the
> availability T#)
>
Well. that and the fact you're walking around with "corp"-style
armor? May not matter in many situations, but I know in my game many
street-level NPCs won't react favorably!

> This is too unbalancing ... perhaps double the price & Street Index?
>
> D. Ghost
> (aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
> o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
Message no. 3
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:17:37 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:28 AM 8/26/98 -0400, D.Ghost wrote:
> I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>
> Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight,
cheaper
> base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.
>
> The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the
> availability T#)

The impression I always got about Securetech Clothing was that it was
one of the rules-fix items from the Street Sam Catalog. From what I
can tell, in the early days of the game, some of the initial feedback
FASA got was that heavy-pistols and grenades didn't do enough damage,
semi-auto firearms in general should have a better rate of fire, and
that the armor wasn't realistic in it's stats.

Hence, when SSC was put out, we have several items that apear to be
intended to correct those problems with SR1: firepower ammo, IPE
grenades, reactive triggers, and Securetech Clothing. The reason I
feel Securetech Clothing was intended as a rules-fix item stems from
this part of the item's descripive narative: "The technical
specifications listed below are correct, unlike a certain other rival
publication's. <Shadow Gear, Summer 2050 :: FJ>"

AFAIK, this is the only place in all of Shadowrun where annotated
material is inserted directly into an item's narative in this manner,
and the posting is by FastJack, no less. I realy think FASA was trying
to say that the stats in SR1 are incorrect, please use these as the
default stats for the various armors.

Six years ago, when SR2 came out, most of the SSC's rules-fix items
were directly incorporated. The damage codes for the problem items
were adjusted, and the new simple action to fire a Semi-Auto mechanic
effectively gave every semi-auto the reactive trigger refit. However,
FASA continued to use the original SR1 stats for the armor.

Now after the two types of armor have been entrenched into the game
system for 9 years, with slightly different stats, FASA comes out with
SR3, with a slightly different take on it. Armor Clothing can be
gotten in any fashion, Securetech Clothing has a definite "corporate"
look to it. I suppose they had to diferentiate the two sets of items
somehow, since they've both been in the game so long it'd make some
players wonder "Hey, where'd that stuff go?" if they omited one or the
other.

So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
(and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 4
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:23:00 -0500
----------
> From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>

> AFAIK, this is the only place in all of Shadowrun where annotated
> material is inserted directly into an item's narative in this manner,
> and the posting is by FastJack, no less. I realy think FASA was trying
> to say that the stats in SR1 are incorrect, please use these as the
> default stats for the various armors.

Not quite. The Smiling Bandit <Strikes Again/ Ha:Ha:Ha> inserted notes
directly into the Genetech section of Shadowtech

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
"The Kelti said of themselves that they did not lie, but they sometimes
took a very long way around in getting to the truth, with frequent stops
at interesting spots along the way."
-Morgan Llywelyn "The Horse Goddess"
Message no. 5
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:41:43 EDT
In a message dated 8/26/98 5:00:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dghost@****.COM
writes:

> I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>
> Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
> base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.
>
> The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the availability T#)
>
> This is too unbalancing ... perhaps double the price & Street Index?
>
Actually I would suggest the base cost raised, sicne they are supposed to be a
"higher class" clothing.
IIRC, they were introduced in SSC to REPLACE the regular stuff (something
about an error int eh other catalog) bt then were carried forward to SR2 and
now 3, <shrug>
Message no. 6
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:49:05 EDT
In a message dated 8/26/98 7:20:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

>
> So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
> (and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
> bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.
>
but my runners all wear camo clothing anyway is that wrong? <display innocent
newbie look> :-)
Message no. 7
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:07:56 -0400
Paul Gettle wrote:
>
> So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
> (and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
> bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.

Good strategy if you want to frame the Yakuza for your run... >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 8
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:38:34 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 8:00 AM
Subject: Securetech clothing


>I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>
>Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
>base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.


Actually, it's about half and half for the weight. The more effective
Securetech stuff is about 50% heavier, while the really light stuff is a
little bit lighter.

>The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the availability T#)
>
>This is too unbalancing ... perhaps double the price & Street Index?


Aside from the higher level of workmanship and the designer labels, why
should this stuff be more expensive? The protection offered is the same in
every case except the vest with plates vs. ultravest, where the Securetech
stuff looses a point of each rating.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:24:35 -0400
At 10:17 AM 8/26/98 -0400, you wrote:

>So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
>(and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
>bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.

You say that as if that's a bad thing...
Message no. 10
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:33:17 EST
> So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
> (and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
> bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.

Ah, so it has an intimidation factor...

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 11
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:47:58 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:23 AM 8/26/98 -0500, Nexx wrote:
>> From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
>
>> AFAIK, this is the only place in all of Shadowrun where annotated
>> material is inserted directly into an item's narative in this
manner,

<<Snip>>

>Not quite. The Smiling Bandit <Strikes Again/ Ha:Ha:Ha> inserted
notes
>directly into the Genetech section of Shadowtech

Ahem. The Smiling Bandit note that you refer to is not inserted into
an item's narative. Genetech isn't an "item" it's a science. :)
Sorry to be nit-picky about this, but as an longtime collector of all
the Shadowrun "toy catalogs" I personally find it very easy to tell
which pages are catalog items, and which pages aren't, and I thought
it'd be easy for everyone else too. :)

Anyway, the section on Genetech is a stand alone chapter, and I can
cite hundreds of cases where passages of chapter length have been
annotated. Also, the Bandit's note isn't in the same manner as
FastJack's note in the Securetech Clothing Catalog entry. I believe
that FastJack's note is the only place an annotation is denoted by
this odd <<message::initials>> quoting style. SB's note uses the more
traditional style, even though he does that funky hack with his
date/time-stamp.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:50:43 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:49 AM 8/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the
better
>> (and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like
a
>> bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.
>>
>but my runners all wear camo clothing anyway is that wrong? <display
innocent
>newbie look> :-)

In most Shadowruns, dressing like an investment banker _IS_ considered
wearing camo. ;)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 13
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:43:16 -0500
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:38:34 -0400 Duncan McNeill-Burton
<dmcneill@************.EDU> writes:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
<SNIP>
>>I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>>
>>Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
>>base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.

>Actually, it's about half and half for the weight. The more effective
>Securetech stuff is about 50% heavier, while the really light stuff is a
>little bit lighter.

Hmmm. You're right. I guess I didn't compare them individually. The
rest of my gripe is still valid, however.

>>The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the availability
T#)
>>
>>This is too unbalancing ... perhaps double the price & Street Index?

>Aside from the higher level of workmanship and the designer labels, why
>should this stuff be more expensive? The protection offered is the same
in
>every case except the vest with plates vs. ultravest, where the
Securetech
>stuff looses a point of each rating.

First, there is the higher Concealability. Why should the better piece
of gear cost less?
Second, there is the fashion. Securetech is corporate while the regular
stuff is streetwear. Now, tell me. Do you expect to pay the less for an
Armani suit than for some piss-ant suit manufacturer? The example is a
bit exaggerated but the principle is sound. The Securetech line would to
be jacked up in price even if the only difference is the style.

>Later-
>
>Duncan McNeill-Burton
<SNIP Sig>

Sorry ... Can't resist ... Duncan McNeill-Burton of the clan
McNeill-Burton? ;)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 14
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:31:56 -0500
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:17:37 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>At 09:28 AM 8/26/98 -0400, D.Ghost wrote:
>> I just noticed something that really makes -NO- sense to me ...
>>
>> Securetech clothing has the same armor value, lighter weight, cheaper
>> base price, lower Street Index, and a higher Concealability.
>>
>> The draw back? an almost insignificant increase in the
>> availability T#)

<SNIP Securetech was originally a fix for regular clothing armor>

>Now after the two types of armor have been entrenched into the game
>system for 9 years, with slightly different stats, FASA comes out with
>SR3, with a slightly different take on it. Armor Clothing can be
>gotten in any fashion, Securetech Clothing has a definite "corporate"
>look to it. I suppose they had to diferentiate the two sets of items
>somehow, since they've both been in the game so long it'd make some
>players wonder "Hey, where'd that stuff go?" if they omited one or the
>other.
>
>So to sum up, in SR3, your runners can use the stuff with the better
>(and possibly more correct) stats, but they're going to look like a
>bunch of investment bankers when they wear it.

Ok how about this then? Ditch the regular armor clothing and use the
Securetech only but apply a Street Index based on Style. Something like:
Streetwear .75
Upright Uptight Citizen .9
Corporate 1.5
etc...

You could even add more detail like 1.4 for Corporate Ares and 1.6 for
Corporate Yamametsu and 1.7 for Corporate Yakuza.

Perhaps wearing the appropriate fashion (which may change from time to
time) may give +1 die to ettiquette tests and wearing a grossly
unappropriate fashion (like Grunge Street in a Renraku office) yields -1
die to ettiquette. I think this could give chars great deal of depth and
you might see runnerss with actual wardrobes ... I mean, how many
character's sheets seem to imply that the character never changes
clothes?

You could also apply this to a base wardrobe as well. Instead of buying
individual clothing (though that might be fun), you purchase a pile of
clothes and apply Steet Index to represent the fashion and then RP what
the char is wearing on a particular run. Of course, seeing 5 nuyen for a
package of underwear on a character sheet would be quite humorous, IMO.
:)

Btw, in both cases, it my personal opinion that the Street Index should
be applied regardless of the channels purchased through.

<SNIP>
> -- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP>

D. Ghost (#257 of 1000 [I wonder who got #357? ;])
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Message no. 15
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Securetech clothing
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:49:11 MEZ-1MESZ
<snip>
> Ok how about this then? Ditch the regular armor clothing and use the
> Securetech only but apply a Street Index based on Style. Something like:
> Streetwear .75
> Upright Uptight Citizen .9
> Corporate 1.5
> etc...

I think most Securetech armor are made for corporates and only a few
for 'guys of the street' therefore I'd put the indices around.

Sandman

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Securetech clothing, you may also be interested in:

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!