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Message no. 1
From: loneeagle@******** (Lone Eagle)
Subject: [Semi OT] Martial arts style compared (was: Unarmed combat
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:42:37 +0000
At 22:13 29/11/2005, lance dillon wrote:
> Doesn't count. Bogus, rigged contest. Eyes, throat, knees, groin, and
> things like that were off limits. If I were attacked for real, I
> wouldn't play nice. I'd make sure I came out ahead. If the <Snip>

Korishinzo wrote:
> I would have to argue with you. Jujitu is not a grappling art, per
> se. It is a "thank you for putting a limb near me, now I shall
> render it useless in multiple ways" art. UFC hampered a jujitsu
> practicioners as much as anyone, because it disallowed joint-breaks,
> a huge part of the style. In actuality, the UFC favored hard
> striking styles that go for the pure knock-out, such as muay tai and
> karate.

Shiro wrote:
> No, you get away and shoot him as in reality. Firearms
> VS samurai in late Japan anyone? Watch The Last
> Samurai for a pretty accurate depiction of what
> happens.For the fingers in ears tactic, see my
> previous comment.

I realise this dates back a long long way but I'm afraid I haven't
been keeping up with the list.

For a start, UFC is a rigged contest, it is rigged to favour the
Gracie family specifically but not through the banning of certain
attack forms; the entire premise is rigged. The Gracies began from
the principal that every fight will end on the floor - win on the
floor and you win the fight. This in and of itself doesn't make the
contest rigged - but the fact that all combat in UFC is one on one in
a "sterile" environment does - add broken glass to the floor and a
few other combatants (and apparently demure non-combattants) willing
to put the boot in on anyone within reach and the floor and therefore
grappling become a less attractive proposition.
Of course, as Kori pointed out, Ju Jitsu is not a floor art or
grappling art... My only experience with Muay Tai is the movie
kickboxer :-/ but my training is in Ju Jitsu. I'm not by any means a
master, I consider myself to be barely proficient at best; a friend
of mine is a black belt Wai Do Ru (sp?) Karate and has trained in Tai
Chi Chuan with monks in Malasia. In SR3 terms I'd put myself at
around 2-3 and him at 6-7; my brother is heading for his black belt
in Tai Quon Do, I'd place him at 6.
Having "play"-sparred with both I can barely believe how quickly
their attacks, blocks and counters can come in - far too quick for me
to react to effectively as yet but perhaps a reasonable analogue for
the wired but semi-skilled attacker against the unwired semi-skilled
defender; were my reactions faster I might stand a level chance but
as the majority of my "problem" is simply finding myself out of
position (because a block drove too far or not far enough, because a
strike has been avoided while my conditioned response is to it being
blocked...etc) I doubt it would help too much.
On the plus side from my perspective my training does give both pause
when attacking, both recognise that - should they fail to execute
their attack *and* recover from it - I know (even if I am unable to
execute it quickly enough) manipulations, throws...etc which I could
perform which could quickly render them non combatant. The friend
rendered it in these terms "I know I'm better than you (referring to
proficiency in our chosen arts) but it seems like you only have to
get things half right; I have to get it all right, every time or I'll
end up somewhere I really didn't expect."
Now the "speed" differential between us makes me think that a wired
opponent would be a difficult (and scary) prospect but I still think
that a skilled fighter will always beat a fast fighter because of the
"out of position" I mentioned earlier. A skilled fighter has their
blocks and counters hard coded into their muscle memory, through
constant repetition they have fixed the end point of their block,
they aren't going to overblock in the way I might and the way a wired
but unskilled fighter definitely would.
In the end speed might give you an edge, but skill is probably more
important and more telling. Of course the SR 3 ties go to the
attacker rule meant that the person with the most passes has an edge
but I certainly wouldn't give extra dice for fast reactions and
therefore definitely wouldn't give TN bonuses.

Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea." - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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