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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Send In The Clones! Future Tech in Shadowrun
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:49:34 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bira" <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>

> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:10:44 +0200
> Phillip Gawlowski <cmd_jackryan@***.net> wrote:

> > And I think I read (in M&M, I think, not sure), that complete
cloning is
> > not possible for human bodies, just for organs.

> Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since cloning organs is
harder
> than cloning a whole body :).

Not quite correct.

Scientists have in recent history convinced both liver and skin cells
to multiply and become functional organs on protien latices. The
cells really want to do this anyway, you just have to give them the
right nutrients. You don't even need stem or egg cells to use this
tech, and it is only a few advancements away from becoming cloned
organ technology. If SR uses advancements on this technology, it also
explains why neural tissue is harder to produce.

Cloning a mammal still requires a donor egg (and I think a stem cell
should work too...) as well as a womb. Neither of these can be
fabricated and the former is harder to come by than a skin or liver
cell. Also, ignoring any type of forced growth tech, the
"turn-around" time for growing an adult-sized liver (or what have you)
using this method is much longer.

IMO, you'll never see forced growth speed up the development process
by more than a factor of 5 or 10 for a full body. Some of the
individual organs may grow faster in isolation however.

--
Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@****.edu
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
Message no. 2
From: jhubert@***.de (JÃŒrgen_Hubert)
Subject: Send In The Clones! Future Tech in Shadowrun
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:22:09 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Da Twink Daddy" <datwinkdaddy@*******.com>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Send In The Clones! Future Tech in Shadowrun


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bira" <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
>
> > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:10:44 +0200
> > Phillip Gawlowski <cmd_jackryan@***.net> wrote:
>
> > > And I think I read (in M&M, I think, not sure), that complete
> cloning is
> > > not possible for human bodies, just for organs.
>
> > Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since cloning organs is
> harder
> > than cloning a whole body :).
>
> Not quite correct.
>
> Scientists have in recent history convinced both liver and skin
cells
> to multiply and become functional organs on protien latices. The
> cells really want to do this anyway, you just have to give them the
> right nutrients. You don't even need stem or egg cells to use this
> tech, and it is only a few advancements away from becoming cloned
> organ technology. If SR uses advancements on this technology, it
also
> explains why neural tissue is harder to produce.

Hmmm. This might mean that the "cloned" replacement limbs aren't
really "identical" to naturally grown limbs - instead they are created
over some sort of artificial lattice, and it should be possible to
notice the difference with medical examinations...

Perhaps this is a distant ancestor of biogenesis from Transhuman
Space? Bioshells, here we come... ;-)


- Jürgen Hubert

Urbis - A World of Cities
http://juergen.the-huberts.net/dnd/urbis/index.html
Message no. 3
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Send In The Clones! Future Tech in Shadowrun
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:44:18 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jürgen Hubert" <jhubert@***.de>


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Da Twink Daddy" <datwinkdaddy@*******.com>
> To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Send In The Clones! Future Tech in Shadowrun

> > Not quite correct.
> >
> > Scientists have in recent history convinced both liver and skin
> > cells
> > to multiply and become functional organs on protien latices.

> Hmmm. This might mean that the "cloned" replacement limbs aren't
> really "identical" to naturally grown limbs - instead they are
created
> over some sort of artificial lattice, and it should be possible to
> notice the difference with medical examinations...

The protein latice is consumed as the organ grows to the correct size
and shape (as determined by the latice). Of course, organs grown this
way need not be implanted in the person who provided the initial
cells. So, the DNA need not match up exactly, as long as the initial
cells come from someone compatible with the recipient. [So, you could
tell if the organ's came from someone else by a DNA test.] Though,
treating such a growth/colony of cells with a retro-virus, in order to
do genetic engineering, is less risky than treating a whole body, so
by SR time, even if the inital cells come from someone else, they
might be infused with your own DNA through treatment.

It could be possible that the whole process is detectable in other
ways. Perhaps the cells in the grown organs have gone through more
generations than the "average"/"normal" cell, and genetic tests could
show this. Also, the nutrient bath and/or protein latice the organs
are grown in may have long or short term effects on the molecular
composition of the grown organ, but I don't know of any in particular.

--
Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@****.edu
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy

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