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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Thanatos)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 17:45:02 2002
>From the big D's will:

To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02: present yourself to the Draco
Foundation on any Wednesday between 10:00 and 10:15 a.m., and the
Foundation will grant you one wish. This offer stands good for one year
from the day of my death. I believe the saying is, be careful what you
wish for—you may well get it.

ACP

-------------------------------------------------------------

The essence of life is struggle and its goal
is domination. There are higher goals and
deeper meanings, but they exist only within
the mind of man. The reality of life is war.

-- The Way and The Power
Lovret
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 17:55:01 2002
> From the big D's will:
>
> To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02: present yourself to the Draco
> Foundation on any Wednesday between 10:00 and 10:15 a.m., and the
> Foundation will grant you one wish. This offer stands good for one
year
> from the day of my death. I believe the saying is, be careful what you
> wish for-you may well get it.

Ok.....you could use that....I however just use the player's social and
add on the year the character was born to the end such as
(123-45-6789-2025)

Derek
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Andrew Murdoch)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 18:15:01 2002
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Derek Hyde wrote:

> Ok.....you could use that....I however just use the player's social and
> add on the year the character was born to the end such as
> (123-45-6789-2025)

Heh. That works. On a related note, in another game (Not Shadowrun) I had
a character who was a Marine. When he first encountered some suspicious
characters, all he gave them was his name, rank and serial number. The
other players were amused that my characters serial number was my RL phone
number.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hail, Centurion! "...He that hath no sword, let him
Andrew C. Murdoch sell his garment and buy one."
toreador@***.bc.ca Luke 22:36
http://www.fandom.ca
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 18:30:01 2002
While on this topic, I do have a similar question. Would people consider it
to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if so, how much would it be
worth?
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 19:10:01 2002
> While on this topic, I do have a similar question. Would people consider
it
> to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if so, how much would it
be
> worth?
>

Actually I'd count a valid SIN as both. On the edge side you have a valid
way of buying goods, and legally owning equipment. However on the flaw side
you now have a "paper trail" any idiot decker can track. Basically while you
can legally own equipment you leave behind info about yourself.
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (George S Waksman)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 21:20:01 2002
"Derek Hyde" wrote:

>> From the big D's will:
>>
>> To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02: present yourself to the Draco
>> Foundation on any Wednesday between 10:00 and 10:15 a.m., and the
>> Foundation will grant you one wish. This offer stands good for one
>year
>> from the day of my death. I believe the saying is, be careful what you
>> wish for-you may well get it.
>
>Ok.....you could use that....I however just use the player's social and
>add on the year the character was born to the end such as
>(123-45-6789-2025)
>
>Derek
>
>

In looking at the one out of the will it could be one of two things: 12 alphanumeric
characters or a sequence NLNL-NLNL-LLNN where N is replaced with a number and L replaced
with a letter.

-George Waksman
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (kawaii ryuko)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 23:20:01 2002
From: "George S Waksman" <waksman@***.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 21:23


> >> From the big D's will:
> >>
> >> To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02: present yourself to the Draco
> >> Foundation on any Wednesday between 10:00 and 10:15 a.m., and the
> >> Foundation will grant you one wish. This offer stands good for one
> >year
> >> from the day of my death. I believe the saying is, be careful what you
> >> wish for-you may well get it.
> >
>
> In looking at the one out of the will it could be one of two things: 12
alphanumeric characters or a sequence NLNL-NLNL-LLNN where N is replaced
with a number and L replaced with a letter.
>
> -George Waksman
>

I'm a big fan of just having it being 12 alphanumeric characters (which,
being like the social security numbers, each district/entity would have
their own 'block', ie: All of Ares would be A1T2-????-???? or something of
the like). :)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Fri Feb 8 23:40:01 2002
waksman@***.EDU writes:
> ... 12 alphanumeric characters ...

I think this is probably the easiest and best way to do it; in this manner,
you have 36^36^36... twelve times -- IOW, a whole hell of a lot of
permutations. Sequences are probably reserved for certain countries or
corporations -- and in addition, remember that a SIN is a -legal-identity-.
This means that a business has a SIN, as it is a separate and individual
legal identity. A department within a business could have a SIN, so long as
the department does business on its own. Any of the megacorporations -- as a
corporation -- has thousands of SINs, representing themselves from
'Saeder-Krupp Corporation' to 'Purchasing, SK Milwaukee'. The money in your
paycheck goes from Saeder-Krupp Corporation to SK-NA to SK-Midwest to
SK-Milwaukee to 'Payroll, SK Milwaukee' and finally to you, Joe Janitor at SK
Milwaukee. All points between are separate SINs, separate legal identities.
And that's just for the money in your paycheck.

In short, I think a 12-digit alphanumeric would work best for a worldwide
identity and information tracking system. And yes, this means that 'false
corporations' can be set up. (I even have rules, but LORD is it expensive!!)



The Wyrm Ouroboros
'Half Russian mathemetician,
half Silicon Valley code freak.'
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 07:10:48 2002
According to Chris Beilby, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> While on this topic, I do have a similar question. Would people consider
> it to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if so, how much would
> it be worth?

I'd consider it a 0-point edge-flaw, as having a real SIN has about as many
advantages as it has disadvantages to a shadowrunner, IMHO. On the one
hand, there's the problem of being more easily traceable, but at the same
time you can do a lot of very useful stuff with little or no hassle,
whereas without a SIN (or even with a fake one) you can't be found as
easily, but have a much harder time getting even legal and/or necessary
stuff like groceries or bus tickets.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 07:11:01 2002
According to George S Waksman, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> In looking at the one out of the will it could be one of two things: 12
> alphanumeric characters or a sequence NLNL-NLNL-LLNN where N is replaced
> with a number and L replaced with a letter.

Or it could be that some positions can be letters or numbers, while others are
always just one of the two. The possibilities are (almost) endless...

The easiest way, I think, is to simply use twelve alphanumeric characters split
into three groups of four. Base it on stuff the players might or might not
recognize if you want to have a bit of fun :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 07:11:13 2002
According to WyrmOuroboros@***.com, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> I think this is probably the easiest and best way to do it; in this
> manner, you have 36^36^36... twelve times -- IOW, a whole hell of a lot
> of permutations.

You really think anyone is going to need 4.7*10^18 SINs? :) It would also be more
fraud-resistant if it's not that simple, because you can catch careless and
uninformed forgers if they use illegal combinations. For example, if the third
character is always 1, 5, 9 or H, any SIN with another character there is going to
be fake. (This is a bit of a simplistic example, of course, but it's intended to
illustrate that using all 36 possible characters in all 36 possible positions may
not be all that handy.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 08:20:01 2002
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
> You really think anyone is going to need 4.7*10^18 SINs? :)

Do you realy think anyone is going to need more than 640 Kb memory? :-)

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 08:30:01 2002
From: "Chris Beilby" <cbeilby@******.net>
>
> While on this topic, I do have a similar question. Would people consider it
> to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if so, how much would it be
> worth?

In my SR I have the two edges:

Zeroed: cost 2 points: You have no Sin and are not registered anywhere.
Extra Sin: Cost 2 points: You have a full extra Sin wher everything is checked
and double checked. Extra Sins beyond the first cost double the price of the
previous one (4, 8, 16 etc. points)

Otherwise everyone starts with one Sin, either because they were born with one
or bescue they have been give an oficial Sin later in life (criminal register,
forrigner moving to the country or some othe reason worked out between the GM
and the player).

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (LeBlanc, Lange)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 09:25:01 2002
> While on this topic, I do have a similar question. Would
> people consider it
> to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if so, how
> much would it be
> worth?
>
In my game, it doesn't count as either. There are advantages and disadvantages to each.
During character creation, I ask each character whether they want to have a valid SIN or
not. In my group of 5, 2 have SINs (and the Day Job flaw). One is ex-military, and kept
his SIN (allows him to bluff/bribe his way into some of the more hard-to-get permits if he
can give a convincing excuse) . So when non-SIN characters need something a little hard to
get, or don't want to pay the Street Index multiplier, they send the SIN characters to the
local Weapons World or Radio Shack and get what they need.

As I said, it has disadvantages. Already the characters have had to pay much nuyen to a
security decker contact to erase crime records from the LS database because 2 of the
firearms purchased legally were used in crimes investigated by LS, and they only realised
that it was the weapons linking them after a few close calls with LS and a matrix check.
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 13:20:00 2002
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> > You really think anyone is going to need 4.7*10^18 SINs? :)
>
> Do you realy think anyone is going to need more than 640 Kb memory? :-)

Of course I do :)

The two aren't comparable, though, IMHO. If you give a SIN to everyone on the
planet, that means you need 6 billion or so (or whatever the SR population was
again) at any one time. Obviously you'll want to avoid duplication, else you
might confuse people with others who died a few years ago, or have other problems
of that nature, but that still means you wouldn't need more than a few tens of
billions of SINs, call it a hundred billion to be on the safe side. 10^11 is
_slightly_ less than 10^18, though :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (George S Waksman)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 14:25:01 2002
"Lars Wagner Hansen" wrote:

>From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
>> You really think anyone is going to need 4.7*10^18 SINs? :)
>
>Do you realy think anyone is going to need more than 640 Kb memory? :-)
>
>Lars
>--
>Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
>l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
>--
>SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
>sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
>--
>Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
>their level, then beat you with experience.
>
>
>
>

I was going to make a similar point but now I realize that they might just be that stupid.
Hell look at the track record, y2k, 640k, etc. etc.

-George Waksman
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Christian Casavant)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sat Feb 9 17:30:01 2002
> The two aren't comparable, though, IMHO. If you give a SIN to everyone on the
> planet, that means you need 6 billion or so (or whatever the SR population was
> again) at any one time. Obviously you'll want to avoid duplication, else you
> might confuse people with others who died a few years ago, or have other problems
> of that nature, but that still means you wouldn't need more than a few tens of
> billions of SINs, call it a hundred billion to be on the safe side. 10^11 is
> _slightly_ less than 10^18, though :)


The ISO (International SIN Organisation) consortium hired a mage to
astral quest Vint Cerf. He told them, "4.3 billion wasn't enough,
Megacorps will hog them all. Get more. And while you're at it, get some
for the martians."

Me.
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sun Feb 10 10:30:01 2002
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 WyrmOuroboros@***.com wrote:

> In short, I think a 12-digit alphanumeric would work best for a worldwide
> identity and information tracking system. And yes, this means that 'false
> corporations' can be set up. (I even have rules, but LORD is it expensive!!)
>

fancy posting them to the list? I know I'd be interested...

--
john@*****.net http://www.kript.net/shadowrun
"It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold"
Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur"
SRGC SR1+ SR3++ !SR2 h b++ B--- UB IE+ RN+ !W ma+++ gm M-- P-
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Christian Casavant)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sun Feb 10 12:05:04 2002
Jon,

>>In short, I think a 12-digit alphanumeric would work best for a worldwide
>>identity and information tracking system. And yes, this means that 'false
>>corporations' can be set up. (I even have rules, but LORD is it expensive!!)
>>
>>
>
> fancy posting them to the list? I know I'd be interested...

Sorry Jon, you replied to the wrong guy! I don't know the SIN rules the other guy made up


Xian.
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Sun Feb 10 19:05:01 2002
> According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > > You really think anyone is going to need 4.7*10^18 SINs? :)
> >
> > Do you realy think anyone is going to need more than 640 Kb memory? :-)
>
> Of course I do :)
>
> The two aren't comparable, though, IMHO. If you give a SIN to everyone on the
> planet, that means you need 6 billion or so (or whatever the SR population was
> again) at any one time. Obviously you'll want to avoid duplication, else you
> might confuse people with others who died a few years ago, or have other problems
> of that nature, but that still means you wouldn't need more than a few tens of
> billions of SINs, call it a hundred billion to be on the safe side.

Also, you've got to remember that SIN's are a UCAS thing. Sure every other country'll have
their own version of it, but they all wont be the same format. The UK has their own
different version in SR times, just like different countries today have their own systems.


So unless the UCAS had a population boom even larger than the NAN's miracuclous one, I
don't think they'd need a hundred billion SIN's just yet. Or were you just using SIN's as
a generic term, Gurth? Or do you play them as international numbers? Just curious.
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 05:40:10 2002
According to flakjacket@***********.com, on Mon, 11 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> So unless the UCAS had a population boom even larger than the NAN's
> miracuclous one, I don't think they'd need a hundred billion SIN's just
> yet. Or were you just using SIN's as a generic term, Gurth?

Yes; what I was saying, is that you'd need that many numbers if you want to give the
whole world a SIN following the UCAS pattern. Not that this is actually the case.

> Or do you play them as international numbers? Just curious.

I use them as a UCAS thing, with other countries having similar methods of keeping track
of their citizens (like today's US social security number, which is equivalent to the
Dutch social-fiscal number, for example).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 08:30:03 2002
>From: Thanatos <grendel@*****.veldt.org>

>From the big D's will:

So I checked NAGTRL, NAGTNA, NAGTEE, a number of TSS, Shadowbeat, and
others. I skipped over big D's will every time. *sigh* Thanks! :)

>To the bearer of SIN 5T2G-8U6V-PK02

I kind of thought so. This means the clues are in hex. Excellent. :)

>From: "Chris Beilby" <cbeilby@******.net>

>Would people consider it to be a edge or a flaw to have a valid SIN, and if
>so, how much would it be worth?

That depends. A day job is a flaw in SR2. Having a day job would require a
legitimate SIN. You would be very easy to track for corps and law
enforcement. I have a variable point edge in my games that is a fake ID.
You start the game with a forged SIN, and can assign some or all of your
lifestyle to it. The value of the edge is equal to the rating of the ID.
Some of my players take two or three low level fake ID's and use them to buy
safe houses, telecom accounts, etc. I guess it depends on how hard you make
it to acquire a SIN in your games. Shadowbeat and NAGTRL had rules for
ratings of credsticks, with required an equal rating of false ID.

>Seven deadly SINs

I KNEW this would happen! ;)

Korishinzo

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Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 10:25:01 2002
>From: Christian Casavant <christian@********.org>

>>If you give a SIN to everyone on the planet, that means you need 6
>> >>billion or so (or whatever the SR population was again) at any one
>> >>time. Obviously you'll want to avoid duplication, else you might
>> >>confuse people with others who died a few years ago <snip>

SIN numbers of the deceased get tagged with (IIRC) a -D to indicate
"deactivated". These are the SIN commonly stolen by deckers to forge
identification. I assume that SINs are not knowingly reused, considering
the very large number of variations available with 12 alphanumeric
characters. I just assume that there are 6 billion active SINs (latest
census). One guy might be using three, and a few million won't have one at
all. However, since a census in 2060 will be conducted using SINs and
padding the numbers a little to allow for "oversights", any population
figure is going to be extrapolated from active SINs.

>"...And while you're at it, get some for the martians."

I think they use a seperate system. It is some archaic 9-digit, numbers
only scheme. Definately pre-Crash, whatever it is. :P

These are my house Edge and Flaw packages involving SINs

Day Job (1 to 5 point flaw)

1: You have a blue-collar job. It pays for a Low lifestyle. You can get a
permit for shock gloves/stun baton/Narcojet. You can wear armored clothing
legally. You have public transit accounts on your credstick. You have to
work 50 hours a week, randomly assigned shifts. (D6: 1-2 = first. 3-4 =
second, etc.) The corp can take you or leave you, so few assets are
expended to watch you. Your home trid/telecom is untapped, unless you have
aroused suspicion. You have Visa with no extra privelidges attached.

3: You have an office job. It pays for a Medium lifestyle. You can own
hunting rifles/hold pistols, as well as minimal armor (secure vest, long
coat, etc). You have a cheap car (VW Elektro). You work 40 hours a week,
randomly switching between 1st or 2nd shift. (D6: 1-3 is first, etc.) You
have some access to sensitive information and such, so the corp does random
checks on your home trid/telecom, and random checks on your
activies/expenses. Your car is occasionaly tracked. Your Visa allows you
to carry personal defenses as per the 1 point flaw when travelling abroad.
You can fly first class.

5: You are an executive or important researcher. You have a High lifesyle.
You can get permits for concealed Light pistols, and wear up to light
security armor. You are driven about in a company car, and have a personal
staff of corporate personnel (read: watchdogs). These include (at least) a
driver, a bodyguard, and an assistant. Getting away from all of them is
difficult at best. You work 30 hours a week, whenever you want. You are
valuable to the corp. Surveillance of your home security/trid/telecom is
nearly constant. Your expenses and activites are closely monitored. You
can travel anywhere the company wnats you to want to go.

Fake Identification (1-10 point edge)
You have a forged identity of rating = to edge. It can be anything you
want. You must decide what permits the identity has, as well as travel
allowances. The more the ID can do, the more rigorously it will be checked.
Trying to enter Tir na Nog with a Level 1 ident that is permitted to wear
military armor to nightclubs and carry assualt cannons to lunch will just
not fly. You can attach any portion of a lifestyle you have paid for to the
ID. A fake ID for a corp veep that has no money trail will not last long.
Those guys spend money a lot, and not for cyberdecks or APDS ammo.
Compromised idents usually fail in customs checks/sensitive corp
areas/government buildings. You have been warned.

The day job flaw can put a SERIOUS crimp in a runner's plans. Remember, if
the PC gets fired without buying off the flaw, they pick up other flaws
totalling an equal value. ;>

Korishinzo

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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 10:45:01 2002
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Ice Heart wrote:

> These are my house Edge and Flaw packages involving SINs

Interesting gradations of the flaw. I only saw one thing that I
took issue with:

> 1: You have Visa with no extra privelidges attached.
>
> 3: Your Visa allows you to carry personal defenses as per the 1 point
> flaw when travelling abroad.

Technically speaking, a visa is issued by the country you are
travelling to. As such, it is *their* policies that will dictate what you
can and can't carry. Some nations may have reciprocal permit clauses in
their treaties (meaning that they will recognize and allow possession or
concealed carry permits issued by the traveller's home country), but most
will not. Even in the present day, I cannot take a fully licensed handgun
across the border into Canada (where handguns are illegal).
The atmosphere of paranoia in Shadowrun makes reciprocal weapons
permit agreements extremely unlikely given the espionage-conscious nature
of nations and corporations around the world.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
Mark Imbriaco <mark@*********.com> List Owner
Adam Jury <adamj@*********.com> Assistant List Administrator
DVixen <dvixen@*********.com> Keeper of the FAQs
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> GridSec Enforcer Division
David Buehrer <graht@******.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 13:25:01 2002
>From: Marc Renouf <renouf@********.com>
>Interesting gradations of the flaw. I only saw one thing that I
>took issue with:

> > 1: You have Visa with no extra privelidges attached.
> >
> > 3: Your Visa allows you to carry personal defenses as per the 1 point
> > flaw when travelling abroad.
>
> Technically speaking, a visa is issued by the country you are
>travelling to. As such, it is *their* policies that will dictate what you
>can and can't carry. Some nations may have reciprocal permit clauses in
>their treaties (meaning that they will recognize and allow possession or
>concealed carry permits issued by the traveller's home country), but most
>will not. Even in the present day, I cannot take a fully licensed handgun
>across the border into Canada (where handguns are illegal).
> The atmosphere of paranoia in Shadowrun makes reciprocal weapons
>permit agreements extremely unlikely given the espionage-conscious nature
>of nations and corporations around the world.

Good eye! When can I expect you to be joining my game? :)
My "visa" is taken from the VAV concept discussed in some of the novels. It
is built into your ID and encoded onto your credstick with everything else
about you. In SR it is suggested that even flying from Seattle to Boston
would require you to have this VAV checked. On that flight, your luggage
could not legally have every weapon you can legally own, necessarily. Even
an exec who is allowed a concealed pistol would not be allowed to bring it
with him on a public flight within the same country. Not even in his
checked bags. Naturally, additional considerations (euphemism for loads
more paperwork and nuyen) would have to be dealt with to carry the same gun
into Germany or Aztlan. I once ran a campaign in Denver, as published.
*shudder* What a nightmare...for myself. I mean, I don't particularly care
if it was a nightmare for the PCs. They deserved it for the things they did
to get themselves there. ;) --why did the Azzie's get an invite to that
cluster *#@% again? nm, I don't want to know--
Keeping track of of 6 international borders and having to reference my
Seattle sourcebook every five minutes because costs were listed as a
percentage of the costs from that book. Grrrr... Oh, sorry. I'm calm now.
What was I talking about...oh yes, international travel. You are correct
Marc, and I oversimplified there a bit. Although, you can take that gun
into most of Canada in 2060. :P

Korishinzo.

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Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Mon Feb 11 17:00:03 2002
From: "Ice Heart" <korishinzo@*******.com>
<Snip>
> These are my house Edge and Flaw packages involving SINs
>
> Day Job (1 to 5 point flaw)
<Snip in various places>
> 1: Low lifestyle. You have to work 50 hours a week
> 3: Medium lifestyle. You work 40 hours a week
> 5: High lifesyle. You work 30 hours a week

Don't know about the US, but in Denmark it would be rather opposite:

Officially everybody in Denmark works 37 hours a week if on full time, but
realistic it looks something like this:

Working in a factory: Low lifestyle, 37 hours a week, less if on shift.
Working in an office: Medium lifestyle, official 37 hours a week, but more like
40-45 hours a week, more if you are very specialized or higher payed.
Managing: High lifestyle, no maximum hours, expected to be 50+ a week.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
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Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Tue Feb 12 06:00:01 2002
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Mon, 11 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> > 1: Low lifestyle. You have to work 50 hours a week
> > 3: Medium lifestyle. You work 40 hours a week
> > 5: High lifesyle. You work 30 hours a week
>
> Don't know about the US, but in Denmark it would be rather opposite:

I think you're right; if you have a simple, I think low-paying job you generally
work your hours and go home. But if you want an actual career, you almost _have_
to put in overtime. I can certainly see this being true in SR, with the
cut-throat competition even inside corporations.

--
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That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ralf Hagen)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Tue Feb 12 10:50:01 2002
Hi!

flakjacket@***********.com wrote:

>Also, you've got to remember that SIN's are a UCAS thing. Sure every other country'll
have their own version of it, but they all wont be the same format. The UK has their own
different version in SR times, just like different countries today have their own systems.

>

>So unless the UCAS had a population boom even larger than the NAN's miracuclous one, I
don't think they'd need a hundred billion SIN's just yet. Or were you just using SIN's as
a generic term, Gurth? Or do you play them as international numbers? Just curious.
>
Even that would pose no problem; look at phone numbers. You just reserve
the first 4 digits for a national code (Big countries might need two or
more), and give the nations the sovereignty to decide which format they
use for the next say, 12 digit, followed by a two or four digit checksum.

Yours
V.Ralf
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Seven deadly SINs
Date: Tue Feb 12 14:00:01 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>

>According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Mon, 11 Feb 2002 the word on the
> >street was...

> > > 1: Low lifestyle. You have to work 50 hours a week
> > > 3: Medium lifestyle. You work 40 hours a week
> > > 5: High lifesyle. You work 30 hours a week
> >
> > Don't know about the US, but in Denmark it would be rather opposite:

>I think you're right; if you have a simple, I think low-paying job you
> >generally work your hours and go home. But if you want an actual >career,
>you almost _have_ to put in overtime. I can certainly see >this being true
>in SR, with the cut-throat competition even inside >corporations.

Aha, but this flaw does not take into account the things you volunteer to do
in the effort to stay competitive. An exec might decide to put in 30+
additional hours a week so as not to be phased out. I know plenty of
salaried employees who work for more than their contract calls for. The
5-point flaw might actually cause you to be doing something work related 65
or 70 hours a week, but you are only REQUIRED to be in your office for 30.
Meanwhile, the blue collar drone assembler in Plant 4 has to put in his 50
hours, but never takes work home with him. This is gauged on an assumption
of corporate exploitation of cheap labor. Joe Grunt needs those 50 hours
just to keep up on his debts, while Bob Veep CHOOSES to work 60 so the CEO
invites him to the good parties and promotes him. All of this assumes some
fool shadowrunner is trying to be a corp exec AND a criminal. In the
interst of game balance, the PC has to put in a minimum of 30 hours in the
office, but has almost NO time to himslef; while the guy with a 1 point flaw
has to put in 50 hours but gets a life outside the company eye. I assume
that PCs are not interested in advancing too high in a company anyhow. They
do the bare minimum to keep the job and no more.

Kori

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