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Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:34:26 -0500
On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:48:35 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 02:54 AM 6/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
<SNIP Corset Appeal>
>>>I don't expect that latex girl and leather boy would be working at the
>>>local Ares office, nor would they be likely to be working in city
hall.

>>I would. Naturally, they wouldn't wear latex to work, at least visibly,
but
>>after... well, people can surprise you.

>Hell, for all we know, ANYONE of us could be wearing something naughty
or
>"not normal" under our normal clothes.

I, personally, am naked underneath all my clothes :P

>This, I can see becoming more
>common. Women, from what I understand, do this now by wearing frilly
>lingerie under their busines suits to "feel special." Men might begin
to
>pick up on the concept are begin wearing...silk boxers, I dunno. Men
don't
>have many "normal" choices for underclothes, which could change by
205X...

There isn't much lingerie for men at all without going into fetish ... I
wonder how much that'll change...Is there still that unisex trend going?
( there's that CK one perfume for men and women ... and more men wear
make-up, but I think that is still limited to sub-cultures)

>>>Hrmm...I wonder if I should risk asking about sex in 205X...

>>To me, sex in society tends to have fads, sort of like fashion does,
but
>>not as major or outward. For example, in the part of the 80's, hot tubs
>>were big. Early 90's, I dunno, the invention of the sibian, maybe.
>>Currently, at least around here, altoid mints seem to be the fad of the
>>week. In 205X, or perhaps a bit before, I'd guess that sexual fads
would
>>lean towards three areas:

>Altoids...haven't had that experience yet. Doesn't seem to be a big LA
>thing, more of a rural fad.

I hadn't realized that there WAS an Altoids thing ... aren't they just
really strong breath mints? or am I confusing that with something else?

>And I would argue that the growth of the whole S&M thing is really the
>sexual movement of the 90s. In the 60 you had free love and sexual
>revolution, the 70s brought indiscriminate promiscuity and
experimentation,
>the 80s was a drastic reaction to all that which kicked sex *under* the
>bed. The 90s seems to be an emergence from the 80s attitude, but
certain
>"hidden" things, like S&M are coming out also. I know a suprisingly
large
>number of women with handcuffs, and those "Sleeping Beauty" books by
Anne
>Rice have been spotted in a number of bookshelfs.

I don't know too many people who don't own a pair of handcuffs :) ...
hmmmm ... I wonder if free love will come back in 205x ... if medical
treatments have advanced enough and IF drug use has mainly been replaced
with BTL use, the environment MIGHT be safe enough for free love's return
:) ... there might even be special cyber/bioware to facilitate this
("Sorry honey, not unless you have the chrome ...").

>>1) Metahuman sex. No clue what form this would take, but as an example,
the
>>picture of the troll hooker in the Tir na nOg book (pg 56) seems very
>>beleivable to me.

>Probably would just be racially modified versions of sex in general.
You
>know how black men have a reputation for...large equipment? Truth or
not.
>I'd be willing be bet anything that this reputation is now owned
by...you
>got it, trolls. And all that goes with it...

Certain races may have other reputations ... like dwarves, orks, and
trolls might be known for their stamina ... especially trolls ... Elves
may have a reputation for skill ... of course, as with any reputation,
these may or may not be deserved ...

>>2) Magically enhanced sex. I got your elemental service right here.

>Curious. Just think about the lonely magician that creates the
attractive
>ally...

hmmmm... and after being summoned and bound, if this ally goes free,
he/she may become an anima/anaimus or a player ... could be an
interesting idea ... thanks for the idea :)

>Enhanced Sensations or something could be a "cool" sex spell. Hell,
>I'm pretty sure there'd be a small, but booming, industry in sex magic.
>Spells to make you last longer. Spells to make her feel it more. Minor
>transformation spells to make various body parts larger. Magically
charged
>for her pleasure...

Step right up. Step right up. Try Doctor Lovejoy's Amazing Miracle
Tonic. It cures impotence, enhances stamina, and much, much more. Can
you afford not to try it? I thought not. Just slot the 150 nuyen and be
on your way to a more fulfilling sex life... :)

Speaking of sex spells ... Stimulation could be used in this capacity,
and overstimulation could lead to some embarassing situations ...

>>3) Virtual sex. By 205X, this would be a _huge_ buisiness. Every
megacorp
>>would own at least one virtual sex company, though maybe not publicly.
If
>>the evolution of STDs keeps getting worse, chances are virtual sex
would be
>>the primary form of sex among singles. This would be an interesting
culture
>>to give to a PC or NPC.

>Oh yeah, this'd be huge. I can actually imagine that for a lot of
>corporate types, their first dates wouldn't end in the sack, they'd end
>with them both engaging in virtual sex...damn, you could remain a
physical
>virgin and yet have oodles of virtual experience..."Son, if you're going
to
>have sex, we would prefer you use this. <hands over a simsense trode
rig>"

This would deffinately be interesting considering the icons that are
sometimes taken ... how do a Talking pair of breasts make out with a
shimmering cloth? ... and programmers might add in "special features" to
their frames ... hey, speaking of electronic as opposed to real world
sex, remember Demolition Man (again?) and those headgear thingies they
used for sex ... I wonder if a similar trend might develop ... ("you want
to do in RL? ewwww.... gross! that's so ... messy!") ... Also, Virtual
Sex may become big amognst the practioners of the riskier aspects of sex
... (ie you don't have to worry about your icon getting rope burn ...)

>STDs? Never mentioned in SR, and for obvious reasons I think (don't
want
>to mess with that sticky subject! says FASA).

Bad pun! Bad pu--oh wait ... my puns are worse ... ;)

>But something would still be
>around. And even if there is a cure for things like AIDS or VDs, I
doubt
>those cures are widespread. The rich to middle class folks would
probably
>have relatively easy access to the cures, but would the poor and
SINless?
>And would the cures be available in the "third world" nations like the
>African tribal states?

I would think that most "standard" VDs would be curable (but still around
because there are just too many dumb ****s) ... however AIDs might be
incurable ... hmmm ... with the existence artificial immune
systems/immune system enhancements in Shadowtech AIDs may be treatable
but it would be expensive (and you still have it and can pass it on, but
you can live a mostly normal life) ... maybe curing AIDs is handled as
per Gene therapy (using the "stats" for Reconstructive Healing ...

>If done right, the topic of sex could introduce a whole bunch of
adventure
>hooks...
>
>Erik J.
<SNIP>

Yeah, Sex in Shadowrun has deffinate potential for abuse ... I tried it
in a different RPG and the players ended up shagging everytime the action
lulled :/ ... then again, I was the eldest at 16, might of had something
to do with it :) The Dionysian (sp?) party was humorous, though ... drunk
skunk passed out next to the punch bowl ... :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

Btw, sorry about the subject mod but my mailer changes:
Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Re: Shadowrun Fashion)
Into:
Re: Shadowrun Fashion)

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Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:14:21 -0400
At 05:34 PM 6/5/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>Hell, for all we know, ANYONE of us could be wearing something naughty
>or
>>"not normal" under our normal clothes.
>
>I, personally, am naked underneath all my clothes :P

Hey, let's not get into this... ;-)


>( there's that CK one perfume for men and women ... and more men wear
>make-up, but I think that is still limited to sub-cultures)

Hmmm...that's a strong possibility actually. Cosmetic makers are actually
trying very hard to try and get men to wear make up of various sorts. I
seem to recall seeing something, an ad maybe, for male nail polish.

So I'd think that in 205X male cosmetics wouldn't just be limited to
weirdos like Dennis Rodman, it might be for more normal, perhaps even
enough that an office drone might get away with it.

>I hadn't realized that there WAS an Altoids thing ... aren't they just
>really strong breath mints? or am I confusing that with something else?

Yeah, they are the "curiously strong" breath mints. Someone discovered
they have an interesting use during...physical relations. Puzzle it out
yourself, I'm not gonna say anything more.


>I don't know too many people who don't own a pair of handcuffs :) ...
>hmmmm ... I wonder if free love will come back in 205x ... if medical
>treatments have advanced enough and IF drug use has mainly been replaced
>with BTL use, the environment MIGHT be safe enough for free love's return
>:) ... there might even be special cyber/bioware to facilitate this
>("Sorry honey, not unless you have the chrome ...").

Doubt free love will return. And considering organized crime seems to make
so much money of porn and protitution, sex must be in one of it's "dirty"
fazes, like the 80s when it was suppressed. On the other hand, I see much
of sex becoming like fashion in SR.

>This would deffinately be interesting considering the icons that are
>sometimes taken ... how do a Talking pair of breasts make out with a
>shimmering cloth? ... and programmers might add in "special features" to
>their frames ... hey, speaking of electronic as opposed to real world
>sex, remember Demolition Man (again?) and those headgear thingies they
>used for sex ... I wonder if a similar trend might develop ... ("you want
>to do in RL? ewwww.... gross! that's so ... messy!") ... Also, Virtual
>Sex may become big amognst the practioners of the riskier aspects of sex
>... (ie you don't have to worry about your icon getting rope burn ...)

I was thinking more along the lines of simsense type things, not your
standard Matrix meeting. And I'd think a fair number of deckers and Matrix
geeks would be far more comfortable with virtual sex than the real thing.
Happens even today, eh?

>Yeah, Sex in Shadowrun has deffinate potential for abuse ...

Agreed. But as you pointed out, it's something that really should only be
handled by mature adults (hey, sex in general should be only done by mature
adults in my opinion, but hey) to prevent stupid stuff like runners
shagging with every free moment.

Ah well. On to weekend!

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
Message no. 3
From: Quentin Milton <taslehof@*****.INTERNETLAND.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 06:25:25 +0000
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> >I hadn't realized that there WAS an Altoids thing ... aren't they just
> >really strong breath mints? or am I confusing that with something else?
>
> Yeah, they are the "curiously strong" breath mints. Someone
> discovered they have an interesting use during...physical relations.
> Puzzle it out yourself, I'm not gonna say anything more.

Heheh. that wouldn't happen to be anything similar to the use of
Binaca, would it? <pg>

Pantherr

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Message no. 4
From: Alexia <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:22:12 -0700
<snip>
> >Yeah, Sex in Shadowrun has deffinate potential for abuse ...
>
> Agreed. But as you pointed out, it's something that really should
only be
> handled by mature adults (hey, sex in general should be only done by
mature
> adults in my opinion, but hey) to prevent stupid stuff like runners
> shagging with every free moment.
>
> Ah well. On to weekend!
>
> Erik J.
<snip sig>

Mature? I thought that guys were suppose to play this game too.
==
~Alexia
http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun



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Message no. 5
From: Mark Ellis <oronis@*********.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 11:23:52 +0100
> >>3) Virtual sex. By 205X, this would be a _huge_ buisiness. Every
> megacorp
> >>would own at least one virtual sex company, though maybe not publicly.
> If
> >>the evolution of STDs keeps getting worse, chances are virtual sex
> would be
> >>the primary form of sex among singles. This would be an interesting
> culture
> >>to give to a PC or NPC.
>
> >Oh yeah, this'd be huge. I can actually imagine that for a lot of
> >corporate types, their first dates wouldn't end in the sack, they'd end
> >with them both engaging in virtual sex...damn, you could remain a
> physical
> >virgin and yet have oodles of virtual experience..."Son, if you're going
> to
> >have sex, we would prefer you use this. <hands over a simsense trode
> rig>"
>
> This would deffinately be interesting considering the icons that are
> sometimes taken ... how do a Talking pair of breasts make out with a
> shimmering cloth? ... and programmers might add in "special features" to
> their frames ... hey, speaking of electronic as opposed to real world
> sex, remember Demolition Man (again?) and those headgear thingies they
> used for sex ... I wonder if a similar trend might develop ... ("you want
> to do in RL? ewwww.... gross! that's so ... messy!") ... Also, Virtual
> Sex may become big amognst the practioners of the riskier aspects of sex
> ... (ie you don't have to worry about your icon getting rope burn ...)
>

For the origin of the Demolition Man scene, try and catch Barbarella at some
point, with Jane Fonda. A really whacked out fun film.

Mark
'Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him ?'
Message no. 6
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:19:33 +1200
Quoth Erik Jameson (1214 06-06-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>>( there's that CK one perfume for men and women ... and more men wear
>>make-up, but I think that is still limited to sub-cultures)
>
>Hmmm...that's a strong possibility actually. Cosmetic makers are
actually
>trying very hard to try and get men to wear make up of various sorts.
I
>seem to recall seeing something, an ad maybe, for male nail polish.
>
>So I'd think that in 205X male cosmetics wouldn't just be limited to
>weirdos like Dennis Rodman, it might be for more normal, perhaps even
>enough that an office drone might get away with it.

Actually, I believe it says in the BBB somewhere (I think it's in one of
the Twenty Questions) that cosmetics are in everyday use by the majority
of both genders. <Gets an image of a male troll in eyeshadow, false
lashes and lipstick?...Me: 'Waiter? Cheque please.'> That's a little
outside my frame of reference, so I tend to not pay much attention to
it. (Hell, the way I'm going, my campaign's going be more like 199X
with 205X trappings than true 205X, but I don't think the players will
notice or care - they'll be too busy ducking vampires and Bugs.)

>>I hadn't realized that there WAS an Altoids thing ... aren't they just
>>really strong breath mints? or am I confusing that with something
else?
>
>Yeah, they are the "curiously strong" breath mints. Someone discovered
>they have an interesting use during...physical relations. Puzzle it
out
>yourself, I'm not gonna say anything more.

<Sees how that works> O-kaay, that one's new to me. Whatever blows
your skirt up, I suppose...

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
Message no. 7
From: David Mezerette <dame0007@****.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:37:35 +0200
On Sun, 7 Jun 1998, Mark Ellis wrote:

> > ... Also, Virtual
> > Sex may become big amognst the practioners of the riskier aspects of sex
> > ... (ie you don't have to worry about your icon getting rope burn ...)
> >
>
I don't think so, coz if it's virtual, it's not risky anymore, and,
consequently, not as exciting...except if you're running a real deep
virtual reality, and the equivalent of an "hot" interface, so that you may
believe it is really real (...and pray for your brain cells).

david aka ChYlD
Message no. 8
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:03:22 -0400
D.Ghost wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:48:35 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>>Altoids...haven't had that experience yet. Doesn't seem to be a big LA
>>thing, more of a rural fad.

Well, I guess, if you consider Boston "rural".

>I hadn't realized that there WAS an Altoids thing ... aren't they just
>really strong breath mints? or am I confusing that with something else?

Yes. The breath mints. It's an oral sex thing. I'm not quite sure I'd call
the experience pleasurable, but Altoids are definately effective.

>I don't know too many people who don't own a pair of handcuffs :) ...

[OT] Handcuffs can leave marks. If that's not what you're into, there is a
product called "Comfy Cuffs", which are basically manacles made out of
Neoprene (i.e. the stuff from which wet suits are made), velcro and that
belt stuff used for most backpack straps. Very cool product.

>hmmmm ... I wonder if free love will come back in 205x ... if medical
>treatments have advanced enough and IF drug use has mainly been replaced
>with BTL use, the environment MIGHT be safe enough for free love's return

Nanotechology opens this door pretty wide. Custom 'bots to fight STDs.
Actually, even at Shadowtech levels, there is almost definately a
zeta-interferon to fight HIV. Actually, I'd bet that HIV will probably be
what will lead to a zeta-interferon type breakthrough in our own future.
And that will probably open the gate for nanotech, then all hell will break
loose. But I digress.

>Step right up. Step right up. Try Doctor Lovejoy's Amazing Miracle
>Tonic.

One of the campaigns I was in would usually feature media reports that had
some filler to conceal what was really important. One of the filler items
was the introduction of Bob's Occult Fornication Formula, a sexual spell
formula meant to keep you going and going. The BOFF spell was a big hit
with the public.

>hey, speaking of electronic as opposed to real world
>sex, remember Demolition Man (again?) and those headgear thingies they
>used for sex ... I wonder if a similar trend might develop

I was thinking about sim rig hardware for each partner, feeding into each
other's heads. Probably be too confusing, but it'd be interesting to try,
just to see what you were doing wrong.

>Yeah, Sex in Shadowrun has deffinate potential for abuse ...

Sex in RPGs works best when your characters give it as much importance as
they would in real life, no more, no less. This varies from person to
person, of course, but it can give a character a more real feel, possibly
create party friction (two runners hitting on the same person, a runner
getting more distracted than the rest of the team thinks is reasonable,
etc.), and can give a GM hooks to make the game more beleivable. Generally,
this takes a GM that knows what they are doing.

Wordman
Message no. 9
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:06:12 -0400
D
> >
> I don't think so, coz if it's virtual, it's not risky anymore, and,
> consequently, not as exciting...except if you're running a real deep
> virtual reality, and the equivalent of an "hot" interface, so that you may
> believe it is really real (...and pray for your brain cells).
>
> david aka ChYlD
dude now we ain't talking about just simsense here. This is BTL talk.


--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
Message no. 10
From: Greg Symons <gsymons@******.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex in Shadowrun (Was Shadowrun Fashion)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:40:52 -0400
On Monday, Wordman wrote:

[snip a lot that I couldn't think of comments about...:]

>>hey, speaking of electronic as opposed to real world
>>sex, remember Demolition Man (again?) and those headgear thingies they
>>used for sex ... I wonder if a similar trend might develop
>
>I was thinking about sim rig hardware for each partner, feeding into each
>other's heads. Probably be too confusing, but it'd be interesting to try,
>just to see what you were doing wrong.

This was actually mentioned in _Night's Pawn_. The two hookers who hit on Chase
when he first arrives home in New York are referred to as "sim-loopers." They
take a cheap simrig, route the recording to each of the participants, and go at
it 'til the breakers trip from the feedback. It's a minor point, has absolutely
no plot value other than flavor, but I found it interesting, especially when the
bartender, Teek, mentioned he had some suspicions about possible side-effects.

Not sure exactly how I'd use it in a game though... just food for thought.

[more stuff snipped]

Greg

.sig snipped

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