Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:30:56 -0400
Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> Why didn't FASA mark books GM-only and PC/GM in the first place? It's
> always petty nice, to discuss whether the players may read the book or not
> (My GM handles it this way: If he get's the book first, it's GM-only.
> Works for me, as he doesn't want to buy English-books..;))).
>

I'm glad there's no stupid GM book. Personally I think that the game works
perfectly. I tell my players that everything in every SR book is open to
them. If they want to read the damn notes on how to run a good game in the BBB
then fine, let them. But I also tell them that the rules are in no way set in
stone and that no item listed is set in stone. If a particular book says that
"this is the safest and most reliable weapon on the market" I might feel that
this particular gun that was just purchased was one from a shipment of flawed
barrels... or perhaps I might decide that it's just marketing and that the
weapon is the shittiest thing you've ever seen (short of an amercan congressmen
:) I think that so long as my players know the distinction between character
knowledge and player knowledge I don't mind. I do try to keep the non-magical
types from reading the grimoir (but eventually they all play magicians or
adepts so it's a very silly attempt on my part :). I just figure that all
players will have access to most (if not all) items in most of the books.
Please understand, access doesn't mean that they can walk next door and pick up
some MilSpec shyte but if they're into that military thang, they'll know what
an assault cannon is, they'll have heard and read of the specs of power armour
in some magazine and for those with the ability to access the matrix with any
skill, ALL the SR books are posted as public domain on Shadowland.. so why, as
a GM would you restrict those books? I think we all have gotten to the point
that if someone says "Hey what's the damage code for XXXX gun?" most of us
could reply from memory... and as a GM I get annoyed by players who do that
too... but you know what.. shit happens :) And it's easier for me to just ask
"does anyone remember what the armour rating for medium security armour is?
I've forgotten." and get two correct replies.
Let's not get FASA into the AD$D mode.. where the only thing that the DM
book had that should have been DM only was the magical item section... and
perhaps the xp section. Why would you keep movement restricted information?
Bah. I like informed people. I hate idiots... I 've had to play with enough
of them.

--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GB/O d-@>++ s+:+> a-- C++++>$ U P L>- !E----? W+@>++ N++ o K-?
w---(-)>-
O+++
!M- V? PS+ PE++>+++ Y-- !PGP- t !5 X R++* tv- b+ DI++++(+++++)>+++++ D++ G
e++
h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 2
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:15:00 GMT
on 26.08.97 philos@****.NET wrote:

p> > Why didn't FASA mark books GM-only and PC/GM in the first place? It's
p> > always petty nice, to discuss whether the players may read the book or
p> > not (My GM handles it this way: If he get's the book first, it's GM-only.
p> > Works for me, as he doesn't want to buy English-books..;))).
p> >
p>
p> I'm glad there's no stupid GM book. Personally I think that the game
p> works perfectly. I tell my players that everything in every SR book is
p> open to them.

Nice, but sometimes that doesn't work with some players...

p> I do try to keep the non-magical types from
p> reading the grimoir (but eventually they all play magicians or adepts so
p> it's a very silly attempt on my part :).

That's something I really recommend. It's really good for the role-playing
if the Sammy (the *player*) looks at the mage and goes "What?! You can do
that? That's scary!" (Happend to me. I never bothered reading the Grimoire
as I never really liked to work with magic. I'm much better with tech)

p> I just figure that all players
p> will have access to most (if not all) items in most of the books. Please
p> understand, access doesn't mean that they can walk next door and pick up
p> some MilSpec shyte but if they're into that military thang, they'll know
p> what an assault cannon is, they'll have heard and read of the specs of
p> power armour in some magazine and for those with the ability to access the
p> matrix with any skill, ALL the SR books are posted as public domain on
p> Shadowland..

Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
Shadowland?


p> And it's easier for me to just ask "does anyone remember what the armour
p> rating for medium security armour is? I've forgotten." and get two correct
p> replies.

Yeah, but you won't get any "What the hell was *that*!"-faces when letting
the players face a SPAS-22. You need much more heavy stuff. I don't like
the really heavy stuff to appear often.


p> Let's not get FASA into the AD$D mode.. where the only thing
p> that the DM book had that should have been DM only was the magical item
p> section... and perhaps the xp section.

I never played AD&D, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Tobias
Message no. 3
From: VAEL <vael@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:26:57 +0000
If memory serves correctly, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
> Shadowland?

If you go by the rules presented in SRComp, all deckers do (almost).

SRComp has rules for setting Shadowland up as a Level 2 Contact.
Really quite silly if you ask me, but that is the way it is written.

Making Shadowland a simple contact, trivializes the 'reputation' the
board seems to have grown for it's self. IMO

Vael


"The Jack Putter Machine Zero-Defects!"
-- From another Joe Dante Masterpiece: Inner Space.
Message no. 4
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:05:41 EDT
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:26:57 +0000 VAEL <vael@**********.COM> writes:
>If memory serves correctly, Tobias Berghoff wrote:
>
>> Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
>> Shadowland?
>
>If you go by the rules presented in SRComp, all deckers do (almost).
>
>SRComp has rules for setting Shadowland up as a Level 2 Contact.
>Really quite silly if you ask me, but that is the way it is written.


Actually, it's anybody with a starting Computer Skill of at least 1 can
take Shadowland as one of their starting contacts. However, Shadowland
cannot be 'upgraded' in any way, shape or form to anything above a level
1 contact (for those of you who are deprived of the Companion: this
equates it with a standard contact, Level 2=Buddy, Level 3=? (Follower?)
)


>Making Shadowland a simple contact, trivializes the 'reputation' the
>board seems to have grown for it's self. IMO


Perhaps, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier to access:)



/ John Pederson aka Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage \
| I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud |
< and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. >
| --Francis Bacon /----------------------|
\ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 |lobo1@****.com /
Message no. 5
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:26:31 -0600
At 22:05 8/28/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>Making Shadowland a simple contact, trivializes the 'reputation' the
>>board seems to have grown for it's self. IMO
>
>Perhaps, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier to access:)

And if it's supposed to be so elite and amazing, it Shouldn't be easy to
access. It should be bloody hard.
In recent FASA books, you have all these complete and utter gits posting in
the Shadowland areas.. people that should be in the AOL Chat rooms of
Shadowrun..

Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)

-Adam


-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
From The Jury's Bench: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel
Message no. 6
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:01:54 +0000
On 29 Aug 97 at 6:26, Adam J wrote:

> And if it's supposed to be so elite and amazing, it Shouldn't be easy to
> access. It should be bloody hard.
> In recent FASA books, you have all these complete and utter gits posting in
> the Shadowland areas.. people that should be in the AOL Chat rooms of
> Shadowrun..

Doesn't that indicate that it is easier to find now?

> Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)

I saw it somewhere, I think a novel, one of the characters logged on
to UCAS Online to check his mail...

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
Computer - A device designed to speed and automate errors.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:16:08 -0500
At 06:26 AM 8/29/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
#Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)

you didn't hear?

AOL is the "virus" that caused the crash of 2029
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 8
From: Mike Sapp <cynner29@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:31:02 -0400
<snip>
>Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)
>
<Rant>
If the RPG chatrooms are any indication, then rest assured that by 205x
AOL will have collapsed under the weight of undersexed weenies that spend
too much time on line instead of tuning into The Disney Channel.
If it does manage to maintain itself under the "I-wanta-be-(insert TSR
published character name here)'s" then also rest assured that the next
group I get together will be hired to destroy the AOL servers by some
really old johnson named Cynner.;)
</Rant>
Breath...Breath...Ok, now shake it out...Let it go...
Message no. 9
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:45:54 EDT
On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:26:31 -0600 Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> writes:
>At 22:05 8/28/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>>Making Shadowland a simple contact, trivializes the 'reputation' the
>>>board seems to have grown for it's self. IMO
>>
>>Perhaps, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier to access:)
>
>And if it's supposed to be so elite and amazing, it Shouldn't be easy
>to
>access. It should be bloody hard.


Well, I agree. OTOH, if it's so hard to find, how does anyone get there?
Shadowland, it would appear, is becoming less a private area for
shadowfolk and more a clearinghouse for information of all kinds (that
most of this info is going to be most useful to shadowfolk and that most
of it is gathered/posted/commented on by the same seems to not make much
difference), like Bug City. If it is to remain the domain of elite
deckers and shadowrunners, it needs to be harder to access, or there
needs to be some way of restricting who can get in (like a club). If it
becomes harder to access, the PC's start having trouble getting to it
(not all bad, of course) and it makes it hard to disseminate the info
that is contained therein, and there's no point to bothering with newbie
advice on the 'Land: there won't be any newbies that can get there.


>In recent FASA books, you have all these complete and utter gits
>posting in
>the Shadowland areas.. people that should be in the AOL Chat rooms of
>Shadowrun..


It might be a good idea to see what FASAMike has to say...
It could mean that anyone with any ability with computers at all can
*find* Shadowland, but only the ones that truly good can get in.


>Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)


Actually, it apparently became UCAS Online (UOL) with the merging of the
US and Canada, this much would seem evidenced by the occasional post from
someone @***********.com or something like it.



/ John Pederson aka Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage \
| I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud |
< and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. >
| --Francis Bacon /----------------------|
\ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 |lobo1@****.com /
Message no. 10
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:47:31 -0500
At 12:45 PM 8/29/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
#
#Actually, it apparently became UCAS Online (UOL) with the merging of the
#US and Canada, this much would seem evidenced by the occasional post from
#someone @***********.com or something like it.

hmm, and that domain is free, ATM
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 11
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:45:54 EDT
On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:16:08 -0500 Jaymz <justin@******.NET> writes:
>At 06:26 AM 8/29/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
>#Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)
>
>you didn't hear?
>
>AOL is the "virus" that caused the crash of 2029


Nah ... the virus would have been the users;) They all tried to log on at
once ...


(Ooooo ... What's this do? *click* *frazzle*zap*pop*)

/ John Pederson aka Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage \
| I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud |
< and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. >
| --Francis Bacon /----------------------|
\ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 |lobo1@****.com /
Message no. 12
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:57:20 -0500
At 12:45 PM 8/29/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
#On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:16:08 -0500 Jaymz <justin@******.NET> writes:
#>At 06:26 AM 8/29/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
#>#Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)
#>
#>you didn't hear?
#>
#>AOL is the "virus" that caused the crash of 2029
#
#
#Nah ... the virus would have been the users;) They all tried to log on at
#once ...
#
#
#(Ooooo ... What's this do? *click* *frazzle*zap*pop*)

Welcome!
You have *click* *frazzle*zap*pop*
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 13
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:08:18 -0400
It could be that shadowland is similar to alt.hackers; anyone can access
the info contained therein, but only the elite can post there (I know
that it isn't that hard, and I also know that it is not exactly what
posters want to be thought..."elite").

How about that? Datastores or something that are readable by most anyone
(still hard to find though) but the real partying happens at some harder
to reach portion - a place where you might get info in real time by
talking to someone in the know, whereas the datastores tend to be old
info (from a week or so and beyond).

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
Message no. 14
From: tiarnan@****.COM
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:03:55 -0400
American Online? They went belly up, because they still only had 28.8
connects in 2048.

-Tiarnan O'Cormicain
Message no. 15
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:48:20 -0500
At 09:03 PM 8/29/97 -0400, tiarnan@****.COM wrote:
#American Online? They went belly up, because they still only had 28.8
#connects in 2048.

that's when you weren't getting busy signals, of course
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 16
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:46:22 -0400
At 10:48 AM 8/30/97 -0500, Jaymz wrote these timeless words:
>At 09:03 PM 8/29/97 -0400, tiarnan@****.COM wrote:
>#American Online? They went belly up, because they still only had 28.8
>#connects in 2048.
>
>that's when you weren't getting busy signals, of course
>
Actually, take a look at Target: UCAS, page 74. There's a comment by
swilson2715@******.COM. That looks suspiciously like UCAS Online...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"CrapGame, you bitch!"
-- R.C. during the Drive in the Country tournament
Message no. 17
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:15:00 GMT
on 29.08.97 fro@***.AB.CA wrote:

f> Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)

UCAS On-Line. See 'Lone Wolf' by Nigel Findley

<no kiddin'>

yTobias
Message no. 18
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:27:00 GMT
on 28.08.97 vael@**********.COM wrote:

v> If you go by the rules presented in SRComp, all deckers do (almost).
v>
v> SRComp has rules for setting Shadowland up as a Level 2 Contact.
v> Really quite silly if you ask me, but that is the way it is written.
v>
v> Making Shadowland a simple contact, trivializes the 'reputation' the
v> board seems to have grown for it's self. IMO

Yup. As I said before: If you want to access SL, yu have to somehow make
contact with someone who works at SL or knows someone who does. That makes
it far more interesting.

Tobias
Message no. 19
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:53:40 -0400
Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> p> I'm glad there's no stupid GM book. Personally I think that the game
> p> works perfectly. I tell my players that everything in every SR book is
> p> open to them.
>
> Nice, but sometimes that doesn't work with some players...
>

But even with players who do play with things that they shouldn't, as a GM you
can easily restrict things so it all makes sense anyways. Sure they might have
heard about some cool gun that has a 3K range, that's 26D and would happen to be
called a rail cannon, but if they've never seen one before, as a GM, you can
describe the situation to them and let them try and figure things out. If it
really becomes a problem, you can pretty much just remind the player...

> p> I do try to keep the non-magical types from
> p> reading the grimoir (but eventually they all play magicians or adepts so
> p> it's a very silly attempt on my part :).
>
> That's something I really recommend. It's really good for the role-playing
> if the Sammy (the *player*) looks at the mage and goes "What?! You can do
> that? That's scary!" (Happend to me. I never bothered reading the Grimoire
> as I never really liked to work with magic. I'm much better with tech)
>

Unfortunately, it wasn't me who originally got the grimoire in my group
first.. I got it from the player but quickly skimmed through it (basically because
I never really played a magical type before.. I was always into the tech thing as
well... ) and I did a couple WHAT?? at game sessions.. no longer but it definitely
made me look long and hard at the magical system and now I can make pretty decent
magical adventures...

> Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
> Shadowland?
>

All the SR books they try to distinguish between "wannabe samurai" and the
real thing, and I like to think that players are those who have made that
distinction. It's obvious that they're statistically way over the "norm" of
society in every respect, they can do things that normal people can't (how many
people have taken 5 or 6 bullets in one hour and still gotten up and lived? And
how many can say that they've done that, on average, say once a month?!), and they
see things that would scare the willeys out of anybody, but they themselves are
rock solid in the challenge! (what idiot would charge into a 0/0 zone, with
undead/cyberzombies/things-that-you-don't-want-to-meet-in-your-worst-nightmare-type
things just to get some item out that might make them 250000 nuyen? let alone a
group of these idiots?:) So I think that players are "above average" and have
access to the "above average things"... initially anyways. If a players wants
Shadowloand as a contact, why not? It's not a game unbalancer.

> Yeah, but you won't get any "What the hell was *that*!"-faces when letting
> the players face a SPAS-22. You need much more heavy stuff. I don't like
> the really heavy stuff to appear often.

Ahhh... but more often than not I created my own versions of guns. The
Renraku Red Samurai had nothing on them that was stock, or even identifiable as
stock items. They're cyberware wasn't on the same level as anything that players
had ever seen and simply put when the *only* time a player group of mine clashed
with them (very funny very long story behind that one) they were not only
impressed, but the dumb ones who stood and fought were also dead. (I sent in a 4
man team using nothing milspec (I've never even seen FoF) just some nice "Andrew
weapons and armour that were just slight modifications of existing stuff), those 4
guys killed 4 troll street samurais that thought it would be wise to shoot it out
with their cannons, 3 Orcs who thought it was "Hey, it's 8 against 4... why
not?"
and one really stupid mage who I even gave the opportunity to run away but who
decided to stand and fight (4+1d6 initiative and he stood and fought????? That's
pretty much the definition of dumb). This was a tourney game so I didn't pull any
punches... but it trimmed the 13 players that were there right quick :) I like
non-standard stuff because your player do say "What the hell is that!!!" :)

--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GB/O d-@>++ s+:+> a-- C++++>$ U P L>- !E----? W+@>++ N++ o K-?
w---(-)>- O+++

!M- V? PS+ PE++>+++ Y-- !PGP- t !5 X R++* tv- b+ DI++++(+++++)>+++++ D++ G
e++
h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 20
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:01:18 -0400
> If you go by the rules presented in SRComp, all deckers do (almost).
>
> SRComp has rules for setting Shadowland up as a Level 2 Contact.
> Really quite silly if you ask me, but that is the way it is written.

I've never had a character take SL as a contact.. Everytime they've
wanted to get access they've had to talk to talk with people who know and
spend some big bucks.. and then because they were only told of where it
is, they won't know where it'll be later so they'll just have to do it
all over again. It's like illegal ftp sites, they're never up for more
than a few hours and only certain people know where they are... but if
you find one you'll probably never find it again when it opens later.

--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GB/O d-@>++ s+:+> a-- C++++>$ U P L>- !E----? W+@>++ N++ o K-?
w---(-)>- O+++
!M- V? PS+ PE++>+++ Y-- !PGP- t !5 X R++* tv- b+ DI++++(+++++)>+++++
D++ G e++
h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 21
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:27:05 -0400
<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>Adam J wrote: And if it's supposed to be so elite and amazing, it Shouldn't
be easy to
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>access.&nbsp; It should be bloody hard.
<BR>In recent FASA books, you have all these complete and utter gits posting
in
<BR>the Shadowland areas.. people that should be in the AOL Chat rooms
of
<BR>Shadowrun..

<P>Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)

<P>-Adam
<BR><A
HREF="http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; People got smart and it died.&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>Andrew Dominas
<BR>AKA Sir Philos Nex
<BR>3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
<BR>Jedi Knight

<P>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Version: 3.1
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; GB/O d-@>++ s+:+> a-- C++++>$
U P L>- !E----?
W+@>++ N++ o K-? w---(-)>- O+++
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; !M- V? PS+ PE++>+++ Y-- !PGP- t !5 X
R++*
tv- b+ DI++++(+++++)>+++++ D++ G e++
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>
Message no. 22
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 12:07:55 +0100
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #


OI!

|<HTML>
|&nbsp;

WE DON'T READ HTML ON THIS LIST!

So unless you want everyone to totally ignore you, or flame you for wasting
time/space/money/etc, I suggest you configure your e-mail to send E-MAIL!

NOTE: E-mail does NOT use HTML!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 23
From: Daniel Gelinsky <dunkelzahn@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:25:53 -0700
> ##### # # # # ## #####
> # # # # # # # # #
> # ###### # # # # # #
> # # # # ## # ###### #####
> # # # ## ## # # #
> # # # # # # # #
>
>
> OI!
>
> |<HTML>
> |&nbsp;
>
> WE DON'T READ HTML ON THIS LIST!
>
> So unless you want everyone to totally ignore you, or flame you for wasting
> time/space/money/etc, I suggest you configure your e-mail to send E-MAIL!
>
> NOTE: E-mail does NOT use HTML!
<rant>
Yep. If all else fails, change your mailer, or go into your UNIX shell
account and use PINE. PINE is barebones/nofrills, but it works, and it
wont send your email in HTML, unless you purposely send it in HTML, in
either case a repeated *THWAP* is well earned.
</rant>
Daniel Gelinske (WarChylde)
Message no. 24
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:12:30 +0100
|<rant>
|Yep. If all else fails, change your mailer, or go into your UNIX shell
|account and use PINE. PINE is barebones/nofrills, but it works, and it
|wont send your email in HTML, unless you purposely send it in HTML, in
|either case a repeated *THWAP* is well earned.
|</rant>

Personally, I prefer the thing that Pine Is Not... (And that's Elm)...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:12:52 -0500
At 01:12 PM 9/2/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
#|<rant>
#|Yep. If all else fails, change your mailer, or go into your UNIX shell
#|account and use PINE. PINE is barebones/nofrills, but it works, and it
#|wont send your email in HTML, unless you purposely send it in HTML, in
#|either case a repeated *THWAP* is well earned.
#|</rant>
#
#Personally, I prefer the thing that Pine Is Not... (And that's Elm)...

hee hee

It's actually Program for Internet News & E-Mail
but PINE fans call it Pine Is Not Elm
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 26
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:35:46 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-29 12:48:14 EDT, you write:

> Well, I agree. OTOH, if it's so hard to find, how does anyone get there?
> Shadowland, it would appear, is becoming less a private area for
> shadowfolk and more a clearinghouse for information of all kinds (that
> most of this info is going to be most useful to shadowfolk and that most
> of it is gathered/posted/commented on by the same seems to not make much
> difference), like Bug City.

Actually, that's a better description of the Nexus/Denver Data Haven than
Shadowland. Shadowland is effectively a Runner's hangout and an entrance to
the Nexus.

> If it is to remain the domain of elite
> deckers and shadowrunners, it needs to be harder to access, or there
> needs to be some way of restricting who can get in (like a club). If it
> becomes harder to access, the PC's start having trouble getting to it
> (not all bad, of course) and it makes it hard to disseminate the info
> that is contained therein, and there's no point to bothering with newbie
> advice on the 'Land: there won't be any newbies that can get there.

That's a simple matter. Some people on the list may not have started out on
local Bulletin Board Systems(BBS) so I'll give a rough explanation of the
difference between the 'net/Matrix and BBS's like Shadowland. On the net, the
only thing restricting your "movements" and what you see are any programs you
may be running - Cyber Patrol, Netwatch, etc. - and the servers you go
through. The people out there such as Spike who are using Unix or have shell
access know about access levels, but they are primarily restricted to that
particular machine and what you can do on it.
On a BBS, it's a different ball of wax. BBS's are almost always private
systems, and just as frequently has a restriction of some kind on access,
such as no cops(big on hacker and militia related BBS's), no twits(big on ALL
BBS's), or no swearing. Further, you have to apply for access to the system.
There are multiple access levels available, all configurable by the sysop.
the basic levels are:
0: Twit Level. You can logon, and that's it.
1: Applicant Level. You can Logon and Logoff, as well as check your access to
see if
it's been raised.
2: Newbie Level. At this level, you can download some files, and usually read
general
chat message bases, but rarely anything interesting.
3: General Level. Once the sysop realizes you aren't a newbie gimp, you can
download most files, including "controversial" files(after reading and
agreeing to a
disclaimer) and read almost all of the message bases available. You may
or may
not be restricted from writing to the message bases.
4: Elite level. Full access to the board. All the "regulars" you see in the
various
different FASA books have Elite Access. Also gives access to pirate files
and
"controversial" files(without the disclaimer)
5: CoSysOp. Elite access, plus system access to validate files, set up
message
bases, etc. Cannot validate users.
6: SysOp. System Operator. Is effectively god and can do everything, because
he
owns the system.

> >In recent FASA books, you have all these complete and utter gits posting
in
> >the Shadowland areas.. people that should be in the AOL Chat rooms of
> >Shadowrun..
>
> It might be a good idea to see what FASAMike has to say...
> It could mean that anyone with any ability with computers at all can
> *find* Shadowland, but only the ones that truly good can get in.

That's the basic concept. Even newbie gimps can sleaze their way past a
sysop, just by playing nice. The perfect example is Steel Lynx.

> >Hey, any idea what's happened to AOL in 205x? ;)
>
> Actually, it apparently became UCAS Online (UOL) with the merging of the
> US and Canada, this much would seem evidenced by the occasional post from
> someone @***********.com or something like it.

Yup, it's also mentioned - probably the most - in the Matrix Law section of
VR2.0, where they go into a bit on a hole in the UOL systems to get into the
Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

Wolfstar
Message no. 27
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:36:57 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-29 10:31:44 EDT, you write:

> If the RPG chatrooms are any indication, then rest assured that by
205x
> AOL will have collapsed under the weight of undersexed weenies that spend
> too much time on line instead of tuning into The Disney Channel.
> If it does manage to maintain itself under the "I-wanta-be-(insert
TSR
> published character name here)'s" then also rest assured that the next
> group I get together will be hired to destroy the AOL servers by some
> really old johnson named Cynner.;)

Two things. One, that's a really cool idea for a run. =) Two, avoid A0L
Chatrooms at all costs. Check out the Game Design Message Base for the
intelligent Roleplayers on A0L. =)

Wolfstar
Message no. 28
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:37:10 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-30 05:39:58 EDT, you write:

> American Online? They went belly up, because they still only had 28.8
> connects in 2048.

Actually, I'm sending this from a 33.6k dialup - which amuses me to no end
because I've only got a 14.4k modem. =) Besides, they ended up as UCAS
OnLine.

Wolfstar
Message no. 29
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:46:51 +1000
> > American Online? They went belly up, because they still only had 28.8
> > connects in 2048.
>
> Actually, I'm sending this from a 33.6k dialup - which amuses me to no end
> because I've only got a 14.4k modem. =) Besides, they ended up as UCAS
> OnLine.

Which is what I finally decided on as a name for my Shadowrun page... :)

http://ucas.home.ml.org/

</gratuitous plug> :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
"No more drugs for that man!" - Dietrich, Face/Off
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 30
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:15:00 GMT
on 31.08.97 philos@****.NET wrote:
p> Tobias Berghoff wrote:

p> > Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
p> > Shadowland?
p> >
p>
p> All the SR books they try to distinguish between "wannabe samurai" and
p> the real thing, and I like to think that players are those who have made
p> that distinction.

O.K., I can see that, but I don't know if the players should be able to
post a "How can I get around <whatever>?"-message and get an answer.

p> It's obvious that they're statistically way over the
p> "norm" of society in every respect, they can do things that normal people
p> can't (how many people have taken 5 or 6 bullets in one hour and still
p> gotten up and lived? And how many can say that they've done that, on
p> average, say once a month?!),

Yeah. Ever figured that most GMs and players think the guy fresh out of
chargen is you *average* runner? Hell, if there were 2000 freaks with 1MY
worth of chrome in Seattle, it would be under martial law.

p> and they see things that would scare the
p> willeys out of anybody, but they themselves are rock solid in the
p> challenge! (what idiot would charge into a 0/0 zone, with
p> undead/cyberzombies/things-that-you-don't-want-to-meet-in-your-worst-nightm
p> are-type things just to get some item out that might make them 250000
p> nuyen?

Me. :))

p> let alone a group of these idiots?:) So I think that players are
p> "above average" and have access to the "above average things"...
initially
p> anyways. If a players wants Shadowloand as a contact, why not? It's not a
p> game unbalancer.

I guess it's not for experienced players, but I wouldn't want a group of
newbies (to RPGs) to have that access. Maybe I'm just paranoid or maybe
they should figure it out themselfes.


p> fought were also dead. (I sent in a 4 man team using nothing milspec (I've
p> never even seen FoF) just some nice "Andrew weapons and armour that were
p> just slight modifications of existing stuff), those 4 guys killed 4 troll
p> street samurais

Four trolls in a single group?


p> I like non-standard stuff because your player do say "What
p> the hell is that!!!" :)

I like it, too. It make's my GM say "What the hell is that" :))



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 31
From: 96sp080 <96sp080@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shadowland question and GM only information
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:49:12 -0700
On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> on 31.08.97 philos@****.NET wrote:
> p> Tobias Berghoff wrote:
>
> p> > Brings us back to the original topic: Do all deckers have access to
> p> > Shadowland?
> p> >
> p>
> p> All the SR books they try to distinguish between "wannabe
samurai" and
> p> the real thing, and I like to think that players are those who have made
> p> that distinction.

well.... acording to "beyond the shadows" any pc with a Computer skill of
1 or greater MAY pick up shadowland as a contact. ... it goes on from
there about what you can get out of it and what you have toi put into it.
but I guess this falls under alot of the other stuff on the list that
most of the answers boil down to it is at your disgrestion.

ICBreaker

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Shadowland question and GM only information, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!